Alignment question...

YellowCrewCabber · Post by **YellowCrewCabber** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:20 am

I recently replaced the tire rod ends and steering gear box. Truck drives much much nicer. Even the steering wheel is easier to turn. I have not had it aligned just yet. My question is...with todays laser alignment technology and the fact that it attaches to the vehicles wheels, should I wait to do the alignment until I have new tires mounted or does that really matter anymore?

MeanMr.Mustard · Post by **MeanMr.Mustard** » Sun May 31, 2009 2:12 pm

are you changing tire size? i would wait if th tires you have now are extremly worn or unevenly worn it could throw it off a bit.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:00 pm

Hey, I thought you just put new BFG ATs on your truck after the boise/tb lift?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:20 pm

I'd align it now and have them recheck it when new tires are installed.

YellowCrewCabber · Post by **YellowCrewCabber** » Sun May 31, 2009 10:40 pm

I had it aligned just minutes before buying the new tires.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:57 am

My local firestone shop has a "lifetime" alignment deal that costs about the same as doin' it two times. Needless to say, I've got lifetime alignment service on every vehicle I own.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:17 pm

Is there a limit to the amount you can get in a year or anything set like that?

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:08 am

I don't think so. They (firestone) recommend every 10k miles. I've been getting my mazda3 done every oil change (about 4-5 per year) and haven't reached their limit if there is one.

I believe it was $140 when I bought it last.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:08 pm

One heck of a deal if they do a good job. Not too many places like that around here but if I find one I'll be buying that package!

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:02 am

Geeze, thatsa deal. I just paid $93!

Since were on the topic of alignments. Just had mine done a few weeks ago, it has a 6 month/6000 mile warranty. My steering wheel has to be cocked to the right just a hair to keep it straight. Im taking it back to have them straighten the wheel up.

Will they actually align the front tires again when straightening the wheel? If so I was thinking about an extra crank or two on the front bars if that is infact the case, I doubt it, probably wont chance it either way, but im curious.

Horsehammerr · Post by **Horsehammerr** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:25 am

Any cranking on the bars will change the alignment.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:53 am

Usually no, not a full alignment, they can adjust that without doing a full alignment saving time and therefore money. It would be nice if they did redo it though.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:18 pm

The front will get a full alignment, it has to to get the wheel centered but it should not cost you anything if you bring it back and point out it was done wrong the first time. If you change anything they will probably figure it out and charge you the full boat again. Most alignment shops work on a flat rate for the labor based on the vehicle then any parts are over and above the cost so don't bet on a pro rated cost if they require you to pay for it.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:05 pm

Centering the steering wheel does not require an alignment since it does not change the settings. The tie rod adjusters are marked, then loosened and turned in opposite directions until the steering wheel is centered.

Steve

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:14 pm

Sorry but I beg to differ, changing the tie rod ends will possibly change alignment and will require it to at least be checked.

MeanMr.Mustard · Post by **MeanMr.Mustard** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:33 pm

I do alignments everyday, and id consider turning the tie rods to be "aligning" it. if you crank th bars a bit they would notice if compared to the specs it left the shop with. but if it left ther crooked, they should fix it no problem.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:47 pm

I was curious. Even if I was pretty certain they would redo it, and say, not notice a few cranks on the TB, I still wont chance it. Curiousity got the better of me

Really wish I knew about the firestone lifetime thing.

Since were on the subject, and we have some people among us who do this job. How exactly do shops align tires? I see adjusting the tie rods, obviously, but when tool, or how ever do they know when its right.

And is there any test I can do at hope to check and make sure my tires are properly aligned? I don't really trust shops... at all... and with my steering wheel slightly out of wack im curious if theres a way to check the alignment?

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:09 am

I would search on the web to show you what is actually done on an alignment but basically all modern shops use a computer to determine when things are right. Each vehicle has a set of minimum and maximum specs to work with and the shop sets the vehicle on the alignment rack, installs sensors on the wheels and then proceed to adjust the three settings for Camber, Castor and Toe. As each adjustment is made they can look at the display and get a real time reading from the sensor on the wheel they are working on and adjust until all three are within tolerance. Since there is a bit of wiggle room in the numbers it is possible to have two different shops make slightly different setting but still be ok. I have had the wheel misaligned on a couple of vehicles and it usually means they are in a hurry or they did not center before they started. If it is not grossly off or if the test drive doesn't reveal a problem most shops won't go back and adjust it again (guess they figure it's easier to wait and see if they get a complaint). As for trusting a shop, if you can find one that will let you come into the bay while they are working ♠you can get a feel for the quality of the work (just don't be in their way or bug them too much) I also try to get them to show me the bad parts if I feel there might be some dishonesty or guesswork going on.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:43 am

I have done a few alignments myself on a Hunter digital alignment machine and I can tell you for sure that if you mark and rotate each tie rod end in opposite directions the alignment settings are not changed at all.

In other words turning the tie rods ends to make the steering wheel straight does NOT change the caster, camber, or toe settings.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 pm

As long as they are rotated exactly the same amount is , I am sure what he meant to say in there.
I agree. At worst you would alter the toe slightly if you missed the rotations a little.

Be sure to check the wheel center on different types of roads. Sometimes you turn into the crown on a secondary road to go straight. This is compensating for the heavy crown, whereas the wheel may be centered and no effort to compensate for a crown on a multi-lane highway or primary road with less crown. Check it on different types of roads and what you frequent before you are sure corrections need to be made.

MeanMr.Mustard · Post by **MeanMr.Mustard** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:28 am

if you want to do your own alignment ther are several sites that come up on a google search and all you need is a tape measure and string! i get paid by th hour not by the job so customers dont have to worry that im reccomending something they dont really need.

and all the time i have people complain that when they "let go of the wheel" on some roads it drifts, i try to explain how many roads tilt and you really shouldnt ever let go of the wheel and thers only a problem if its actually "pulling", not free hand drifting.. but many dont understand.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:58 pm

good info. Im gonna take it back over tommorow after flushing my cooling systme back out, getting the cleaning solution out, and putting green in. Then put on my front bilsteins.

But I made sure today it did it on every road and not just some with a little tilt to em, and it did. I have also caught myself keeping the wheel a bit cocked to the right while driving straight as well.

But thats all good info, I was always curious about the subject.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:04 pm

Went today to have em correct the streering wheel (didnt crank on the TB any). They said it would be atleast an hour

Ended up being 1 hour 50 minutes...

Guy said, he saw the guy workign on my truck and he did "quite a bit of cranking". Then said something about an alignment, he said it weird. Im not sure if they did another alignment, or thats what they did originally (which they better have darn well did....)

Either way, quick trip on the interstate and back, its straight. Now after wasting two hours im gonna go put my front bilsteins on and maybe flush out my cooling system and add green stuff.

MeanMr.Mustard · Post by **MeanMr.Mustard** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:19 pm

it took that long AFTER your truck was in the shop? or you had to wait because they were busy? almost two hours is waaay longer then i would want to work on an alignment!

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:23 pm

MeanMr.Mustard wrote:... two hours is waaay longer then i would want to work on an alignment!

They must get paid hourly

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:28 pm

They were "busy", didnt look like it too me. They had racks open, but im not sure how many were back there working, and how many 'stations' they have for alignments, if that matters. Took about 1 hour and 10 minutes for em to even take my truck into the shop. So, id say they had it around half an hour. It set outside for about 10 minutes id say before I noticed it out there and they didn't say anything to me, i had to go to their desk...

They apperantly had 2 other people complaing about work, as I overheard. One guy came in and said after they rotated his tires, at 75mph they had a bad vibration, and pull, that they didnt have before.

Not sure what the heck coulda gone wrong there.

But you also have to ask, what kind of man has to take his car to shop to have tires rotated.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:31 pm

HenryJ wrote:
MeanMr.Mustard wrote:... two hours is waaay longer then i would want to work on an alignment!
They must get paid hourly

At 79.99 for the alignment, a $8 "shop fee", and tax, $93 out the door, they obviously don't get paid per job!

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:39 pm

fallvitals wrote:...you also have to ask, what kind of man has to take his car to shop to have tires rotated.

Some places rotate for free when you buy the tires. Service is part of the deal, and you do pay for it in the price you pay for that set of tires.
I have had my tires rotated at a place like that, when I had tires bought from them. I figured I payed for it.

Lately, I have been buying "mail order" and installing myself, so I am stuck with the rotations too. Sometimes the maintenance becomes tedious. Paying for a rotation is not a bad way to go if your time is worth more spent elsewhere.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:47 pm

Eh, if its free with trires, sure gotcha, id do it too.

My uncle runs a tire shop. His father in law owns it (and 2 or 3 others) I could take mine in for a rotation any time. For free. I just choose to do it myself. I dont pay for any thing there, repairing a flat, balancing, mounting. Only thing I have ever paid for is new tires

I have even gotten a few sets of used tires for free

MeanMr.Mustard · Post by **MeanMr.Mustard** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:45 am

fallvitals wrote: his tires, at 75mph they had a bad vibration, and pull, that they didnt have before. Not sure what the heck coulda gone wrong there.

But you also have to ask, what kind of man has to take his car to shop to have tires rotated.

probly had a bad tire/wheel on the back so it wasnt felt before the rotation. i try to spin and look at the tires first so i can let the customer know they might be better off leaving them where ther at.

and normally only one rack is a dedicated alignmnt rack, and if its busy theres a wait.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:09 pm

I just got an email for $10 standard or lifetime wheel alignment if anyone needs...

http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.co ... image=3270