SO, I hate GM....Rear end problems

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:32 pm

Well, it turns out my pinion seal has been leaking. Apparently a "contamination" got into the rear end (nobody seems to know how or what, but they said it looks like water, the mechanic suggested that it got in through the vent tube) and so the warranty people (trucks now on the extended warranty) have denied my claim. SO, I hate GM. THe dealership has quoted me...........$3384 to fix the rear end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO, I hate GM. They said EVERYTHING in the rear end looked bad....Funny that it drove in to the dealership just fine. THere was never and noise that came out of the back. I took it in because the front end sounded funny going over speed bumps, and there was a rattle sound from under the passenger side floorboard/firewall area (I'm guessing exhaust some how) ARG!!!

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:45 pm

I saw one on eBay not long ago from S10warehouse. What gears do you have.

Rear End

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:50 pm

Try this guy also. They shipped a posi rear to me for my old S-10 for $150.00 total.

http://www.gaineyautoparts.com/

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:11 pm

This also may be a problem to look at and to point out to your dealer when you verify the vent's location.

Document ID# 1548738
S10 Pickup - 4WD
Diagnostic Information on Rear Axle Vent Hose to Avoid Moisture/Water Intrusion #04-04-20-003 - (Sep 3, 2004)
Diagnostic Information on Rear Axle Vent Hose to Avoid Moisture/Water Intrusion

2001-2004 Chevrolet S-10 Four-Door Crew Cab Pickup

2001-2004 GMC Sonoma Four-Door Crew Cab Pickup

When diagnosing a rear axle leak or noise concern on the above-listed vehicles, a technician may find that the rear axle fluid is contaminated with water.

First inspect the rear axle vent hose routing location. The vent hose may be positioned directly below the gap between the cab and the pickup bed. In this location, the vent hose may be more susceptible to water/moisture intrusion from the elements or from automatic car washes. It may be necessary to relocate the vent hose to a new location under the pickup bed that will prevent moisture/water from entering the hose.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:15 pm

I think that I would have a little visit with my UNINFORMED service manager. Armed with the above TSB.

If that doesn't enlighten them to their error, then I think I would have a little visit with the local regional rep

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:18 pm

Good suggestion f9k9.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:27 pm

I had to relocate my rear diff vent line for the same reason there is a TSB for this problem. Mine was located in the exact spot described in the TSB. When I did my first rear end fluid change @ 9k miles I also had some water in my diff. I sprayed WD40 all over the gears and inside the housing to help displace some of the moisture. After the WD40 I wiped down the inside bottom of the diff to clean up the residue. Then I refilled the diff with Redline Heavy Shock Proof gear oil and everything has been fine since. I currently have 69k miles with no problems.

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:31 pm

BADs Crew wrote:Good suggestion f9k9.

Thanks, anyone that has read more than a few of my posts will know my disdain for the majority of the GM dealerships or to quote a few members of ZR2.com and ZedR2.com "Stealerships"

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:32 pm

HenryJ wrote: I think that I would have a little visit with my UNINFORMED service manager. Armed with the above TSB.

If that doesn't enlighten them to their error, then I think I would have a little visit with the local regional rep

I would look to see if it was in the wrong place than look for signs that they may have moved it.

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:18 pm

hey thanks guys, im taking a camera and gonna get some pictures first, then confont them. Im also going to get a list of what they said "needed" to be replaced so if this is the case, they will replace all of it! Im sure I won't get so lucky that this is my case, but its worth a try

Post by **Walt** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:31 am

Sheesh...if they told you $3K to replace the rearend, you need to immediately go to another dealership and never return to that one. You could easily get another entire rear axle for a tenth of that if you look hard!

AZS10Crew · Post by **AZS10Crew** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:49 am

If it drove into the dealership, it will drive out also. I'd get a second opinion.

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:43 pm

from a former mechanic here..........get a second opinion. and do get a list of what they say needs replaced. shoot.........you might be able to get a new rear end for $3,000!!!!!

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:52 pm

I did get a list today, and some pictures. To be perfectly honest, i didn't really see any thing wrong with 99% of the stuff. They started acting a little less friendly out when I told them about the TSB that dealt directly with my problem, and even thought the mechanic woudln't say it was water in the rear end, he sure wrote it on the parts list paper the lady made a copy of for me. SO i took pictures of the vent hose sticking up between the bed and the body so they can't move it. I'm also going to call the service department manager tomorrow kindly ask him if he has the number for the free legal services I am entitled too since my step-father works for GM. See if that will get anything going.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:11 pm

Swbari00 wrote:............. SO i took pictures of the vent hose sticking up between the bed and the body..............

I assume that you meat "bed and frame" located near the rear wheel? Which extended warranty did you get, GM or a private company?

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:20 pm

actually I meant bed and cab...private complany

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:40 pm

Swbari00 wrote:........private company(sic)......

If it is American Guardian, let me know, I may be able to help. If you haven't started already, save all your reciepts even if you change your own oil.

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:56 pm

it is easy care....sure didn't know when i bought the truck that it was a private party, was under the assumption it was extended factory....oh well, my bad i guess

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:04 pm

Swbari00 wrote:it is easy care....sure didn't know when i bought the truck that it was a private party, was under the assumption it was extended factory....oh well, my bad i guess

Been there, done that, it's just part of life and learning.

Hang on to all documentation, pursue it with the service manager, the general manager, Easy Care and the worst case scenario is a low mileage rear differential from a salvage yard that should be no more than a tenth of their repair estimate

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:48 am

Dag, I recenlty sold my original perfect with like new Detroit locker and complete brakes for $600. Yea, like f9 says, they can be had even for less if original.

daevans315 · Post by **daevans315** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:36 am

I'll second that. 3,000 is WAY over board for building a s-10 rear end. I just rebuilt the one on my 97 s-10... I did everything accept the axles, even with a Torsen T2R differential it was only $1100 for gears, bearings and posi. I can't imagine that your gears or stock carrier are bad... The water \ contamination could have pitted the inner races on the axle I guess but they have the re-locator bearings that move inner race to a new spot on the axle.
I think you’re getting scammed. Hopefully once you show them that you are not mechanically inept they will change their tune.

(BTW) I love going with friends and family to mechanics or to buy a new car. I always tell the sales person that I’m work IT (which I do). Then I just sit back and wait for the salesmen to dig some hole for themselves, and then start asking very direct questions that I know they have lied about or don’t really have a clue about. I for some reason love making the salesmen squirm.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:56 am

daevans315 wrote:(BTW) I love going with friends and family to mechanics or to buy a new car. I always tell the sales person that I’m work IT (which I do). Then I just sit back and wait for the salesmen to dig some hole for themselves, and then start asking very direct questions that I know they have lied about or don’t really have a clue about. I for some reason love making the salesmen squirm.

You do that too!

It is a lot of fun to mess with the sales reps and service techs when they don't have a clue what their talking about.

Have you ever noticed how these guys explain things to women?

I've educated my wife pretty well with the workings of an automobile, and it is just hilarious to sit back and watch her argue with these guys and end up being right when we go to the dealership. Our Crew Cab is technically her truck, so she likes to deal with service reps herself.

Steve

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:44 pm

well, in the end, all the work will be done for free, atleast free to me. The intake gasket was covered by my warranty and the service manager at the dealership called his local rep or someone and GM will cover the rear end repairs.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:49 pm

Swbari00, glad to hear they are now doing what they should have done in the first place.

Steve

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:52 pm

Yeah me too! Thanks everyone for the help. Thanks f9k9 for the bulletin info, I think might have been the catalyst for getting them to take care of it. I love this site!!!

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:01 pm

Glad to see that theyare going to do the rite thing. f9k9 hit it on the head with his post.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:15 pm

f...9...k...9...

Be sure to let us all know how the whole thing goes , and what they actually replace.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:59 pm

Shucks...lt wasn't really anything

As they say around here......."Even a blind hog will eventually find an acorn"

I just remembered that TSB when I was researching for my lost battle with GM on the real Z Trim Height specs. I also faintly remember it from killian96ss when I first joined the forum and tried to read all past posts

I am just glad it worked out for you Swbari00

Being the vindicative S.O.B. that I am, I would try to hang that dealership for that outragious quote they gave you but, GM is so broke d_ck right now, I doubt if they give a da_n.

adrenalnjunky · Post by **adrenalnjunky** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:58 pm

If any of you have read the John Grisham book "The Rainmaker" - or seen the Matt Damon movie of the same name - the story goes like this (from memory, which is known to be incorrect at times) - Damon plays a young lawyer fresh out of law school that is representing a client whose son is dying, and a corrupt fly-by-night health insurance company is refusing to pay up on a procedure that could save her son's life. During the course if the story it comes out that it is company policy to deny "Every Claim" that comes through - probably because most of the clients that are sold these poicies are poor working class families that generally won't fight the company in court.

Anyone think that GM is beginning to play the role of the corrupt insurance company - Service managers duck everything and try and charge for everything the first go around - and it takes a consumer sticking up for themselves and possibly threatening legal action or contacting a regional rep before they cave in and fix what they knew to fix anyway? The Regional Rep plays the hero - when in fact they're playing the game as well as the Service manager. Getting to him is the required step before the dealership is allowed to do the repairs for no profit?

Holy conspiracy theory , Batman.

I'll now return you back to your regularly scheduled thread.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:04 am

It's not just GM. It's all of them. I've been there with Dodge also. And I've heard the same mess from Toyota. It's all about the squeeze of the Buck, and nothing about the Customer.

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:12 am

Well as of right now, i should get the truck back on thursday or friday. On Friday the 16th, i was told by the service manager that GM was going to pay for the repairs. On monday the 19th (coincidentally when the service manager told me my truck could be finished), I called in to check on the status of my truck. I talked to the lady at the counter that i had originally talked to when i brought my truck in. She told me that she had tried to convince EasyCare to cover some of the repairs but they wouldn't budge. Then she proceeded to tell me that GM will cover the repairs so she ordered the parts they needed today!?!?!? I thought to myself, we knew GM was covering this on Friday, why are the parts just being ordered today? So i am still getting the run-around from this D@MN place. I am not sure the lady knows i talked to the manager on Friday, so when my truck is finished I will bring it up. Not going to say much before hand because i just don't want anything else holding up my truck. They will have had it 3 full work weeks when i get it back. 3 weeks, I think I could have taught my self how to replace and repair everything back there by now.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:27 am

Swbari00 wrote:They will have had it 3 full work weeks when i get it back. 3 weeks, I think I could have taught my self how to replace and repair everything back there by now.

This is exactly why I decided nearly 16 years ago that I was going to learn how to fix or replace anything on a vehicle. I still let the dealer fix things for me on the Crew, but only because I still have my extended warranty. You can definitely save a lot of money repairing your own vehicle.

Steve

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:17 am

SO just out of curiosity, when I get my truck back, what is the best way to tell if they have put the same 3.73 ratio that I had before? At this point in time, I don't trust anything they are doing.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:26 am

Swbari00 wrote:SO just out of curiosity, when I get my truck back, what is the best way to tell if they have put the same 3.73 ratio that I had before?

Make a mark on the driveshaft and chalk a mark on the tire. Roll the vehicle in a straight line, one revolution of the tire while counting the number of times the driveshaft rotates. It should rotate nearly three and three quarters turns. (Jacking it up and turning the wheel will not work. The spidergears rotate and throw off the rotation)
If you had the G80 locking differential the only good way to confirm it's replacement would be to pull the cover. You may be able to feel it working though.
Have a little faith. Most often people are not 100% evil.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:42 am

Swbari00 wrote:SO just out of curiosity, when I get my truck back, what is the best way to tell if they have put the same 3.73 ratio that I had before? At this point in time, I don't trust anything they are doing.

I doubt they are going tp replace the ring and pinion gears. My guess would be that they will replace all the bearings and maybe the G80 locker assembly. If for some reason they did put in a different ratio, I can guarantee you won't go far in 4wd.

Can you imagine what would happen if you engaged 4wd while driving with 2 different ratios in the front and rear diffs.

Steve

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:22 am

oh yeah, didnt't think about that. I don't use that 4wheel drive option much, kinda forgot i even had it! heh, been so long since i have seen my truck

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:19 am

Swbari00 wrote:oh yeah, didnt't think about that. I don't use that 4wheel drive option much, kinda forgot i even had it!

It is a good idea to use your 4wd every once in a while just to keep everything in the front diff and t-case lubed. About 2 times a month I will engage the 4wd on a straight road and drive it like that for a minute or two just to get the fluids moving. If your 4wd isn't working it would be better to find out on the pavement and not when your already stuck somewhere.

Steve

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:00 pm

yeah i do engage it at times. dont know if it is twice a month, but i do engage it just for lube reasons. Glad to know i was thinking something right

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:47 am

ok got my truck back (the friday before Christmas) but haven't had internet access to let you all know whats up. It all seems to be working well. THis is a list of what they replaced: Ring and pinion gears, right and left axles, pinion, carrier, axle bearings. At least thats what i think it says.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:53 am

Sounds about right Gears and bearings. The rest probably cleaned up ok? Did you , or they , relocate the breather to reduce the possibility of this happening again?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:00 pm

Swbari00 wrote:THis is a list of what they replaced: Ring and pinion gears, right and left axles, pinion, carrier, axle bearings. At least thats what i think it says.

I'm surprised they replaced both axels along with the ring & pinion and not the G80. The 6 bearing assemblies make sense, but not the rest unless there was really bad pitting everywhere, however if the pitting was that bad then why not replace the locker assembly?

Make sure you follow the correct fluid change for the break in of new gears. The recommended first fluid change should be in your owners manual. I forget the exact mileage number, but I would do it after about 5k miles.

I would go easy on the new gears for the first 500 miles while they breaking in. Also like HJ said make sure they relocated the breather tube opening to a better location so this won't happen again.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:22 pm

I think you misread. They did not replace the axles. All the bearings , the ring and pinion only. His post is a little deceiving.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:26 pm

HenryJ wrote:I think you misread. They did not replace the axles. All the bearings , the ring and pinion only. His post is a little deceiving.

Yeah it is a little deceiving since he mentions both axels were replaced and also the axel bearings.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:07 pm

Hey maybe I am wrong and they did replace the axles? There is no inner race on the wheel bearings so they may indeed have replaced them. That would make sense.

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:29 pm

From what they were telling me, they did have to replace both axles. THey may have replaced the clutches in the diff as well. I don't really know alot about it so it is somewhat difficult for me to decifer what they wrote. They did re-route the vent hose, it is now under the bed instead of between the cab and bed.

Swbari00 · Post by **Swbari00** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:37 pm

so it hit me just wrote what they wrote, im a quick one i know.

so this is what they wrote

dammaged all bearings both axle ring gear and pinion possible
damage to cluthches in diff
replaced ring gear and pinion right and left axle transfer wheel studs
to new axle replaced pinion, carrier, axle bearing, set up gears,
carrier cleaned hsn gaskets seals gear oil add time for clean up
and transfer studs and rerouting of vent hose

This is exacltly what they wrote, word for word.

adrenalnjunky · Post by **adrenalnjunky** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:57 pm

odd that hey would go to all that trouble, and then reuse your wheel studs - those can't possibly cost them that much new.

But hey - GM is in tough shape financially - every penny counts huh?

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:39 am

Thats exactly the list of parts Aamco had to replace on my 95 blazer that had water infiltration. At least yours was covered buy the tsb and warrantied hope everything is all set for you now.