Transmission Flush and other stuff

[jist1983]

Hello all its been a while, i have a question? would it be worth my time and money to pay someone to flush the transmission or would it be worth my while to do it myself. I have the dealer telling me $150 they would do it. They suggested having my cooling system flushed and changeing the rear differential which i plan on doing those some day, the problem is i want to be able to see the fluid and filters when i'm done. Any suggestions, I bought my CC used and had the manufacturer warrenty reinstated and its all most up, thats why i wanna check the fluid and stuff. i have about 5000 more miles left till its up. Anyone have any sugesstions let me know thats

[HenryJ]

I am a firm believer that a complete exchange is well worth the expense.
If you change your own filter you will change less than half of the fluid. The going rate seems to be $99-$200. Your estimate is right in the middle. That is not a bad price.
You could perhaps save half the cost by installing your own filter and just having them exchange the fluid?

If you are not a handy person there will be some frustration in removing the pan, and reinstalling. Some have made costly mistakes and damaged parts in the process.

It is up to you.

I have access to a fluid exchanger, so I do my own.

[1337vending]

Yes, fluid changes are definitely a good idea for our transmissions, especially since they have such a loose stall converter (more heat).

I have been doing the poor man's fluid flush where I suction the fluid out of the pan thru the dipstick tube with one of those cheapo oil pumps you get at Harbor Freight and replacing it with new fluid (in my case synthetic). I think i changed out around 4 quarts, and i believe full overhaul specs are around 10-12qts. I figure its better to change out some of the fluid rather than none of it.

For maximum effect you could swap the 4qts from the pan, replace with new fluid, drive it around, and then change the fluid in the pan again...and repeat till you're satisfied with the cleanliness of your oil.

Plus, when you change the trans fluid filter it always helps to have a pan thats not full of oil which you inevitably spill on yourself creating a big mess.

[2kwik4u]

I stole this off a post at EFILive.. I am not taking responsibility for its content but felt it was worth sharing... I plan on doing this to my ZR5 very soon and figured someone else maybe interested in it.

When do you own transmission fluid/filter change, you can also change the fluid in your torque converter
(i.e. replace all the fluid, not just what falls out of the pan).

You will need at least 12 quarts of ATF (have 3 extra quarts handy just in case).

0. Get a 5 gallon bucket and "calibrate" it by marking off and numbering quarts.

1. Replace filter, pan, fluid, do not start engine yet;
make sure you have put in at least the same amount of fluid you took out, 4-5 quarts.

2. Undo hose clamp on cooler return line, pull hose from hard line, and direct hose into calibrated bucket
(if necessary use an extension hose or tube to reach bucket);
F-body has this hose clamp on the cooler return line; I don't know about other models.

3. Start engine, and while observing bucket, pour quarts of new fluid into fill tube (via funnel)
at same rate as bucket is filling (or faster) until at least 8 quarts are in bucket
(or until you see new fluid in bucket), then turn off engine.
See note below.

4. Reconnect hose and hose clamp to hard line.

5. Start engine, select each gear briefly, check fluid level in Park, check for leaks.

Note:
In step 3, you must have your new ATF bottles open and ready (number the bottles with a marker);
the fill tube and/or funnel may slow down the rate at which you can pour in ATF...
if you can't keep up, turn off engine after 2 quarts, pour in 2 quarts, restart engine,
and repeat every 2 quarts until bucket contains at least 8 quarts (or until you see new fluid).

Don't let the transmission pan run dry!!

This procedures flushes the converter because the converter fluid exits thru
the TCC valve into the cooler circuit (and not into the pan).

The cooler return line feeds the lube circuit which requires fluid flow only if
the gearsets and output shaft are loaded and turning (i.e. in gear).

This procedure works for the 4L60-E and 4L80-E, and may work for other transmissions in other vehicles,
depending on what circuit is fed by the cooler return line (check the hydraulic diagram).



Again credit of this goes to joecar over at efilive.. The whole thread is posted here:
http://efiforum.iqd.co.nz/showthread.php?t=1851

[AZS10Crew]

My dealership charges $135 for tranny flushes. We almost never change filters though as most of the Ford trannys only have screen-style mesh "debris catchers" rather than actual filters.

[Cajun]

I stole this off a post at EFILive.. I am not taking responsibility for its content but felt it was worth sharing... I plan on doing this to my ZR5 very soon and figured someone else maybe interested in it.

When do you own transmission fluid/filter change, you can also change the fluid in your torque converter
(i.e. replace all the fluid, not just what falls out of the pan).

You will need at least 12 quarts of ATF (have 3 extra quarts handy just in case).

0. Get a 5 gallon bucket and "calibrate" it by marking off and numbering quarts.

1. Replace filter, pan, fluid, do not start engine yet;
make sure you have put in at least the same amount of fluid you took out, 4-5 quarts.

2. Undo hose clamp on cooler return line, pull hose from hard line, and direct hose into calibrated bucket
(if necessary use an extension hose or tube to reach bucket);
F-body has this hose clamp on the cooler return line; I don't know about other models.

3. Start engine, and while observing bucket, pour quarts of new fluid into fill tube (via funnel)
at same rate as bucket is filling (or faster) until at least 8 quarts are in bucket
(or until you see new fluid in bucket), then turn off engine.
See note below.

4. Reconnect hose and hose clamp to hard line.

5. Start engine, select each gear briefly, check fluid level in Park, check for leaks.

Note:
In step 3, you must have your new ATF bottles open and ready (number the bottles with a marker);
the fill tube and/or funnel may slow down the rate at which you can pour in ATF...
if you can't keep up, turn off engine after 2 quarts, pour in 2 quarts, restart engine,
and repeat every 2 quarts until bucket contains at least 8 quarts (or until you see new fluid).

Don't let the transmission pan run dry!!

This procedures flushes the converter because the converter fluid exits thru
the TCC valve into the cooler circuit (and not into the pan).

The cooler return line feeds the lube circuit which requires fluid flow only if
the gearsets and output shaft are loaded and turning (i.e. in gear).

This procedure works for the 4L60-E and 4L80-E, and may work for other transmissions in other vehicles,
depending on what circuit is fed by the cooler return line (check the hydraulic diagram).



Again credit of this goes to joecar over at efilive.. The whole thread is posted here:
http://efiforum.iqd.co.nz/showthread.php?t=1851

Has anyone tried this procedure? and is our return line from the stock transmission cooler the top hose? I need to change all fluids in the drive train and would like to see the condition of the filter and fluids myself for peace of mind, but I don't want to do this if I risk doing more harm than good.

I will also be changing the filter. One of the other threads on this site recommends use of only an AC Delco filter, while another states that the Delco filter could be manufactured by among others Wix. I have locally available a Wix filter. Are they apples to apples?

Any advice is appreciated.

...maybe I'll paint the trans pan yellow...

[killian96ss]

would it be worth my time and money to pay someone to flush the transmission or would it be worth my while to do it myself. I have the dealer telling me $150 they would do it.

Does this price also include changing the filter?

If it doesn't then $150 to swap out the fluid IMO is a complete rip off when you can do it yourself for 1/4 that price.

The procedure listed by 2kwik4u works great and will do almost as good (90-95%) as a fluid exchanger if done correctly.

I have done it this way and it works just fine not to mention it saves you money which you could use on other things like more mods.

If you do your own flush using that procedure the most important thing is to do is make sure you fill with new fluid at the same rate it is being flushed out.

If you change your own filter you just have to be careful when you remove and reinstall the pan because there are some solenoids right there that can be bumped and possibly damaged.

There is no need to violently yank the pan off after you get the bolts out.

Removing the little filter seal is probably the worst part of changing your own filter.

I will also be changing the filter. One of the other threads on this site recommends use of only an AC Delco filter, while another states that the Delco filter could be manufactured by among others Wix.

I would only use a real AC Delco transmission filter and I have never read anywhere that Wix makes filters for AC Delco , although anything is possible I guess, however some proof would be nice.

I have never paid someone to "flush" the fluid or change the filter in any of the automatic equipped vehicles I have owned nor have I ever broken anything or had any problems doing these procedures myself.

It is also worth noting just as HenryJ did that if you are not handy or comfortable with working on your own vehicle then you should just have someone else do the filter and flush for you.

Steve

[Cajun]

Steve,

Thanks for your help.

Fluid only....filter and fluid +$200. Sounds steep to me. I also like the idea of being able to inspect every thing once open. I also like the idea of more money for mods. I figure the transmission cooler mod is free with the money I'll save.

I am by nature a finesse kind of guy. I don't like cranking on anything too hard especially if it is the first time doing something. I've done a transmission filter change on everything for a 350 SB to a 1.8L Honda, so I'm sure I can handle that part. My only concern was the flush part.

The Delco filter is $40, does that sound right?

yeah, but GM could use more than one supplier for their tranny filters, just like they do for their oil filters...

an AC Delco oil filter, like the PF-52 for example, could be produced by AC Delco, Champion Labs, or Wix.
depends on where you get it from...

This is the quote that I mentioned. It would be nice to know if it were true. The Wix filter is $17.00.

Also, is our return line from the stock transmission cooler the top hose?

Thanks for your help!

Craig

[killian96ss]

The Delco filter is $40, does that sound right?

I can get them for about $26 through my GM parts supplier and GM Parts Direct has them for $24, although they charge an additional $10 for S&H.

You want AC Delco part # 24208576 (deep pan).

I don't see any proof that the Wix transmission filter is the same as the Delco filter.

is our return line from the stock transmission cooler the top hose?

(Transmission cooler topic), It flows like this: lower line pumps fluid from the transmission to where I attach the hose and route it to the aux cooler. It then leaves the aux. cooler and returns to the lower connection on the in tank stock cooler. Flows through it and back to the transmission via the upper steel line.

Steve

[Cajun]

Thanks again for all that you do!

Craig

[killian96ss]

Thanks again for all that you do!

No problem, and BTW that tranny pan would look cool painted yellow to match the other stuff!

Steve

[Cajun]

Well I completed the tranny filter and seal change after work yesterday...removing the pan is a REAL PITA! There looks to be enough room to wiggle it out ... but there's not. I ended up removing the bolts from the tranny brace on the passenger side which first required removing the front most bracket of the stock step bar and then lowering the bracket and tranny a little with the help of the floor jack. After that little ceremony the pan came right off. Everything inside looked clean enough to eat off of and the used fluid was clean too. I finished just after dark ...the neighborhood mosquitoes were well fed last night.

[quickbiker]

I'm having a friend of a friend rebuild my tranny and while he is at it, he is going to put a small drain plug on the torque converter so when I change the oil, I can also drain the TC. I've never heard of doing this, but sounds like a good idea. Says he does it to all that he does and never had a prob.

[killian96ss]

I'm having a friend of a friend put a small drain plug on the torque converter so when I change the oil, I can also drain the TC.

That's a bad idea unless it's done BEFORE balancing the converter.

If you are talking about doing this to your Phoenix converter that is 0 balanced then you will certainly upset the perfect balance which will shorten it's life.

Having a drain plug is nice for fluid changes, just make sure you have the converter balanced again if he has already installed the plug.

Steve

[quickbiker]

Yea, I really feel uneasy about it. But he assured me he had it done to his Corvette and Elcomino and never had probs. I asked him if this guy balances aftwards, he says there is no need cause such a small hole. But I've been thinking to tell him not to do it. I got some time yet before it's in the mechanics hand. Ugh, I really don't like when someone keeps insisting things on me, and I really don't like it when I give in even when my gut says no.

[F9K9]

......................I really don't like it when I give in even when my gut says no.

It's just like when we took exams in school. Go with your first gut reaction when you are unsure of the answer. Go back and change the answer and the majority of the time, your gut was correct!

[quickbiker]

I spoke with the Pheonix trans and he didn't tell me not to do it or either way really, he thinks it always a good idea to put all new oil instead of only 30% of it. So I am going ahead with getting it done.

[jayhawkclint]

Here's how I do mine, similar to what it sounds like is being done up above. I was tired of coming out from under the truck looking like I had been drug through the transmission; no matter how hard I tried, I always spilled fluid everywhere and ended up laying in it. I had a leftover brass fitting from a brake job I had done on another vehicle. I popped it in only about 2 threads so as not to strip out the radiator, then clamped on a piece of scrap vinyl tubing from an old fish tank that wasn't being used. I clamped the vinyl to a catch bucket and turned the truck on. I can get about 6 quarts out at a time. Using this method, it is easy to change the fluid out regularly and hold off on the filter for longer intervals. I literally barely get my hands dirty now.

[quickbiker]

I don't have a plug on my converter anymore since I had my tranny redone last year by proffessionals. They replaced the converter also. Ugh, never get work done by someone more than a couple hours away. That was a waste of time/money.

Anyhow, the tranny is perfect now.

[HenryJ]

Redneck tranny flush:
-Disconnect the top line on the stock tranny cooler (return line to the tranny pan). Remove the spring clip, unplug the metal line, unscrew the fitting from the cooler/radiator.
-Install a barbed adapter fitting (Napa part # 05706B-1570 $3.69) and 3 feet of 3/8" rubber oil hose. Direct this to a large drain bucket. I used a 5 gal clear plastic jug.
-Have an accomplice (GF) start the Z with the tranny in park & the E-brake set.
-Approximately 4-5 quarts of dead fluid will get pumped into the bucket. I got 6 quarts out because the dipstick level was a bit on the high side to begin with. Shut the motor down IMMEDIATELY when flow stops.
-Remove the tranny pan. There was only about 1/4" of fluid remaining in the pan.
-Install a new tranny filter/pickup screen.
-I drilled a 1/2" hole in the LR corner of the tranny pan and installed a drain plug kit (B&M part # 80250, about 8 bux at Auto Zone).
-Clean the tranny pan of ALL debris, then flush/rinse it with brake cleaner.
-Re-install the tranny pan w/ a new pan gasket. Torque the bolts to 97 in-lbs.
-Refill tranny with 4 qts of fresh fluid.
-Start motor w/ tranny in park and flush out the 2nd gallon of dead fluid.
-Refill tranny with 4 qts of fresh fluid.
-Start motor w/ tranny in park and flush out the 3rd gallon of dead fluid. At this point I could tell the fluid coming into the drain bucket was getting pretty clean and bright red, but I decided to fill and flush it the 3rd time just to be ####.
-Remove the drain tubing and the adapter fitting.
-Re-install the stock fitting and the return line to the tranny.
-If necessary, make a trip to the dealer to buy a new spring clip (GM part # 24205103) for a whopping $6.49! I bought 2 just in case. Upon returning home, I took another look for the stock spring clip that went flying and eventually found it sitting on the front skid plate under the center of the sway bar. Grrr.
-Refill the tranny with approximately 3 quarts of fluid, start motor, check for leaks, cycle tranny through all gear selections, verify proper fluid level.
-Test drive to warm up tranny to normal operating temperature, recheck fluid level, top off as necessary.

Although this sounds very complicated, it was actually very easy to do at home. All that was needed was fresh fluid, a filter and gasket kit and the tubing adapter (I do not have and aftermarket cooler installed, yet). The tranny shifts MUCH better now. It's a lot crisper when it shifts. So far the hunting issue seems to have gone away. I have only driven it about 150 miles since the flush. I made 3 trips to my buddies place & hauled a full load of firewood home each trip. I'm very happy with the results. It was a whole lot cheaper than having it done at the Stealership and there was no way in hell that Iffy Lube was going to work on it.

[F9K9]

Good write up on the tranny flush

[Horsehammerr]

I'm getting ready to do a Redneck Tranny Flush. I got my '02 CC all up and secure to start and the first thing I see is this row of pan bolts across the rear that are over this cross member. Whats the best way to get these out and torqued back in ? Do I have to remove this cross member for access ?

[HenryJ]

...Whats the best way to get these out and torqued back in ? Do I have to remove this cross member for access ?

I use a 1/4" drive ratchet, extension and universal. Worst case take the mount loose and lift the transmission a little.

Look over that mount good. If it is trashed, you may be sitting lower than the rest of us?

[Horsehammerr]

Ok, I'll look it over, how much can I actually lift the trany ?

[HenryJ]

Ok, I'll look it over, how much can I actually lift the trany ?

Till it hits sum'thn
I've never needed to lift one to get the pan off. Remember finesse when dealing with the pan. It is a Chinese puzzle. One way apart and one way back.

[Horsehammerr]

OH YEAH !! We forgot You have to pull the shift cable out of that niffty little bracket so you can take those two wonderfully engineered 10mm bolts out. Then SUCK ATF as you let the pan down.

[Horsehammerr]

Got it finished in ONLY 3.5 hrs. So much fun crawling around in the grass in my front yard. Some day I hope to have a shop that's heated and air conditioned, with a lift. Dreams do happen. I am amazed at the firm shift I'm getting, must have needed the flush more than I thought. Anyone got a HPIII for my '02 CC ? Can't see $389 being a deal, even if it is new.