Chasing an ATF Leak

[F9K9]

I've recently started prepping my CC for an extended road trip that will probably last 7-9 weeks and cover approx. 3,000 miles. While underneath the rig I found ATF coating much of the underneath of the rig on the driver's side. It began forward of the transfer case and ran back to the gas tank. No drops on floor, just wet. I first diagnosed it as a leaking seal at the front output of the tcase. Made perfect sense to me. The tcase was a little low when I changed the fluid out. Bought a seal and pulled the front drive shaft to replace it. It wasn't wet under the dust cover and the ATF coating began forward of the tcase output

There's a vent hose in the upper left quadrant and that is where the ATF begins coating things.




Tcase output is relatively dry.



So is the drive shaft on the tcase end.



Facts.......

Front DS doesn't constantly move like I am used to and that was why I incorrectly diagnosed it as the output seal.
Coolant is crystal clear green. No ATF contaminants. No radiator failure.
Tcase fluid was slightly low. If, the seal between the auto and the tcase was leaking, it would have been overfull.
ATF in the tranny was slightly over the "hot full" mark and it was also new.

I can't jack around with this. I leave Saturday morning. It's either run with this and monitor the fluid levels or spend beau coup money for a rental car. I will be leaving it with my wife to use and I will be flying back next Tuesday.

Thoughts?

[killian96ss]

That vent line is for the transmission. It will vent fluid if it gets too hot, trans is overfilled, or if the fluid starts foaming. It's basically just an overflow tube. You could spray everything down with a dish soap/hot water mix and then rinse with hot water, let dry and verify for sure where its coming from. If it's not leaving marks on the floor, another 3k miles should be no problem if there is a leak to fix.

Steve

[HenryJ]

I am with Steve on this one. Sounds like the transmission might be slightly over full. When heated the fluid expands and you are slobbering some.
The transmission vent tube is on the drivers side of the transmission , above the shift shaft. It is a small steel tube. It may have a hose attached and run to the back, but more likely the hose you showed us is the vent off the transfercase.

The transmission can run just fine as far as five quarts low on fluid. This is well below the range of the dipstick. Check with the transmission hot and do not over fill it.
I think she will be fine.

[F9K9]

I am with Steve on this one. Sounds like the transmission might be slightly over full. When heated the fluid expands and you are slobbering some.
The transmission vent tube is on the drivers side of the transmission , above the shift shaft. It is a small steel tube. It may have a hose attached and run to the back, but more likely the hose you showed us is the vent off the transfercase................

Definitely not off of the transfer case. I traced it back, by feel, and pulling on the hose. That hose runs back to the top or the tranny. It has a short lift out of the tranny with a 90* bend towards the rear and then runs (to me) abnormally long, with metal, 3-4Xs in length, than the rise has out of the tranny. I hope that makes sense.

My gut says to run with this. I will leave a bare minimum amount of tools with the CC because, I can't haul much back on my flight home. I'll certainly need them here to keep our other POS running. The saving grace to all of this, is that she has a close friend, that recently moved to approx 30 miles outside Houston. I have a fellow heep forum member, in Houston, that I know that I can count on to use his garage and tools. Even though, she'll have a shuttle to the clinic and it is within walking distance, she'll need the rig for odds and ends. I expect a couple of trips to Houston to assist her in the more difficult times. I can keep up with the preventative measures when I am there.

I also know what I will encounter if, I can't pull this off like clockwork.

Fear a red heads and that includes ones that just recently acquired "peach fuzz".

[rlrnr53]

Reed, prayers going out for the both of you. If there's not fluid on the ground, I don't think that it is a problem. I'm in agreement with HJ that it may only be a case of slightly over full in the transmission.

[F9K9]

.............. If there's not fluid on the ground, I don't think that it is a problem. I'm in agreement with HJ that it may only be a case of slightly over full in the transmission.

Thank you! That's what I am gonna run with. I'm still pretty much in shock over Brule agreeing with Steve.

Reed, prayers going out for the both of you.......................................................

Again, thank you! Every prayer helps!

[killian96ss]

I'm still pretty much in shock over Brule agreeing with Steve.

I was wondering if you caught that!

Steve

[JaVeRo]

Here is a picture of that vent tube:



When I put the new transmission in, I ran a longer hose on it and tied it off in the right fender beside the AC coil.

[killian96ss]

All of the 700R4 and 4L60E transmissions I've seen have the vent tube right on top angled toward the passenger side, although you may find the rubber hose routed to either side. Running a longer hose does help keep the undercarriage cleaner since you can route it anywhere you want. I usually zip tie the hose to the trans crossmember so it can drip on the ground instead of all over the transmission.

Steve

[HenryJ]

Be sure where ever you route that hose it can not spray on the exhaust pipe. Ford has a problem with that and they tend to catch fire.

[killian96ss]

Be sure where ever you route that hose it can not spray on the exhaust pipe. Ford has a problem with that and they tend to catch fire.

That's funny! Why do Ford's always have fire problems? It must be some kind of curse!

Steve

[F9K9]

Here is a picture of that vent tube:



When I put the new transmission in, I ran a longer hose on it and tied it off in the right fender beside the AC coil.

Yep, that's it! I wish that I had thought of rerouteing it. It is dumping on the passenger side away from the exhaust. I may squeeze in time tomorrow to reroute it but, I am basically out of time. I wasted time rerouteing the rear diff vent line again. I found a trace of water in it and routed it up behind the driver's side tail lamp.

[paintballrocker]

had the same issue. just as steve and brule said, its just overfill in the tranny making its way out

[F9K9]

had the same issue. just as steve and brule said, its just overfill in the tranny making its way out

That's great to hear!!! Those ducks are always lurking about and makes a fella a little worried.

[rlrnr53]

They should be starting south soon.

[F9K9]

They should be starting south soon.

Oh great! They're following me to Houston.

[paintballrocker]

lol. damn ducks

[rlrnr53]

Maybe They'll go west instead!

[roadrunner]

They should be starting south soon.

Oh great! They're following me to Houston.

Hey Reed, I'd be plaguing ya too if ya did an Elmer on me like that too! This an admission of first strike guilt?

[killian96ss]

Maybe They'll go west instead!

No, keep ur ducks back there, we don't want them out here either. It's been a while since I've seen one, and I'd like to keep it that way!

Steve

[F9K9]

Okay, we made it this afternoon. Can't believe my mileage for the trip. Last fill up was 19.9 but, my speedo is off by 2 mph @ 75 mph GPS shows 73. So, actual number will be less.

Am still blowing ATF. It's made it's way back to the driver's dust shield on the rear brake. 1,100 miles ago it was at the front of the gas tank.

I can't seem to get a definite fluid level on the dipstick. I checked it cold this AM and had no fluid on it. When hot, it's all over the thing. I know I have lost ATF but, I can't pin the level down when it's hot. I added 2 qts, this morning, after being on the road for approx 150 miles. It looks over filled. It has looked the same way, when Only thing that I know to do is read it cold in the morning and take photos of it then, get it hot and then photo the level showing on the dipstick, afterwards.

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[roadrunner]

If you have a scan gauge II check the trans temps under load on the road warmed up. Just a shot in the dark but perhaps overheating?? Would also perhaps explain the erratic hot fluid level??

[killian96ss]

The only accurate way to check the trans fluid is with the engine running, trans in park or neutral, and the transmission has to be fully warmed up which only takes 20 minutes of normal driving. You also have to make sure you are parked on a level surface. If you check it any other way, you will get a false reading! If the trans is already over filled you will have a hard time getting a good reading on the stick. When you take the stick out, thoroughly clean the whole thing with brake cleaner or something that will leave it nice and clean before you put it back in. This will help you see the level easier and help prevent false readings.

Did you ever install a trans pan drain plug on the factory pan or upgrade to a pan that has one? A drain plug is nice to have if you need to let some fluid out because it's overfilled, or do a fluid flush without taking the pan off, or just to drain all the fluid out before dropping the pan. I installed a drain plug on my 05 Z which has the same trans and pan as the CC. It's been on there for a few years now and is still completely dry with no leaks. All you have to do is take the pan off, drill a 1/2" hole in the lowest part of the pan, and install the drain plug.

From everything you've said so far, it sounds like you have too much fluid in there right now.

Steve

[F9K9]

No aftermarket drain plug. Have one on Rubi that has worked well but, tried 2 different ones on her WJ and finally had the hole welded up. I can pull fluid out the dipstick/fill tube if, needed. Scanguage II is on the Rubi. I meant to grab it but, didn't. Can't understand how it got overfilled before yesterday to cause the initial overflow. I'm gonna try checking it cold again. It has cold lines on the dipstick for some reason. Then I will try a hot check. Last day to try and figure this out.

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[F9K9]

Researched local tranny shops and went to a highly rated one. Long story made short, was told by a tech to either run with it, as is, or pull a little out. It will only happen at higher speeds and not local driving. Will bring my Scanguage II when I return to Houston to monitor tranny temps on trip home.

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[killian96ss]

If you check the fluid when its cold, the engine still needs to be running so the trans pump is circulating fluid. You probably already knew that, but just wanted to throw it out there just in case. It's normal for a little bit of fluid to weep out of that vent line even if the fluid level is perfect and the trans is running great, but it shouldn't puke enough fluid out to start covering parts of the undercarriage. I still think you just have too much fluid, but its also possible the trans is overheating like roadrunner mentioned so let us know what the scangauge says.

Steve

[F9K9]

Still wet with ATF underneath and no drops. 3K miles later. They doubled up on my wife's radiation treatments so, this ordeal deal was over with in 6 weeks instead of the projected 7-9 weeks. The CC made the trip effortlessly. Lowest mpg was 17.6 and one tank got over 20 but, that was in Alabama and GA with a lot of 55 mph (actually I went 59) construction zones and it was pretty flat territory.

My ABS light finally came on and stayed on so, while I have our local "Mr Wizard" look at the ABS system using one of his scanners, I'll have him look at the tranny. I'm not going to start throwing parts and guessing at a cure for either issue. He's reasonable and very good at any brand of motor vehicle. It's $70 well invested using his diagnostics. I figure that I'm about due for front bearing assemblies and it's probably a speed sensor.

[HenryJ]

I think you are "spot on" checking wheel bearing and VSS sensors.

[F9K9]

I thought that I should update this one and put it to bed. Our CC is now our "back up/go to" source of transportation. She prefers to drive her '04 Grand Cherokee. It has around 185K on it but, I've replaced or rebuilt allot of things on it. I've not touched the 4.0 inline six, other than routine maintenance stuff. We had a close call on the tranny but, Brule walked me through saving it.

My trail rig/DD has remained unbroken so long that it scares me. For some unknown reason, I decided to bring the CC up to snuff and addressed the ABS light, an SES or check engine and get new meats on her (plenty of tread left but, dry rot was concerning me). I figured that new ball joints were in order because of the miles running 33s on BJs designed for 31s or less would accelerate there demise. As mentioned above, the ABS light turned solid so, new bearing assemblies seemed logical.

So, the BJs, bearing assemblies, tires and an O2 sensor seemed to cure everything. The ATF leak/overflow/whatever, has disappeared. The odd thing is that suddenly, we needed our CC as a solid "go to" workhorse. My wife's father became ill just after Christmas. To make a long story short, I've probably put another 1500 mile on the CC in three days and it has been our only "non worry". We had a serious ice/snow storm that closed I-64 but, we made it to viewing, back home and to the funeral today. It's over 220 miles round trip but, we were comfortable.

This forum and Brule has played an important role in my life. I want to thank everyone for their help and support!

[HenryJ]

This forum and Brule has played an important role in my life. I want to thank everyone for their help and support!

The feeling is mutual
Great to hear a feel good story about the crew cab. I am sure it will continue to serve you well with such a caring owner.

Sorry it sounds like it had to serve for a sad occasion. Hope your year is filled with joy.

[Horsehammerr]

My Prayers are with you F9K9 and for what it's worth , with 170K on my CC, it still gives me good times and I continue to rely on it for work and fun.

[rlrnr53]

My prayers are with you. I know how trying these times are, because I lost my oldest sister the first part of December. On top of that, one of my girls left for basic training the 30th, and the other one leaves the 6th for her basic.

[ApproachMedium]

Sorry for your loss buddy. Glad to hear the truck has been faithful to you. FWIW we discovered that mine was overfilled after the engine swap. Who knows how long it was like that. It never leaked though. Maybe my vent is clogged?

Anyhow, you know how many miles are on my truck and all the crap its been thru. I have no doubt yours should get just as far and beyond as long as its in your care.

[F9K9]

..................Anyhow, you know how many miles are on my truck and all the crap its been thru. I have no doubt yours should get just as far and beyond as long as its in your care.

Thanks! I'll feel a little better after my next oil change. After my last oil change I sent a sample off to Blackstone Lab and I had a trace amount of coolant in the oil. If, it's still there and the report shows it, it'll be time for intake gaskets replacement. Oh joy, oh joy.....

[rlrnr53]

I'm looking to have to do the same this spring after the Subaru head gasket, Equinox shocks and struts, and Focus timing belt and belt adjuster.

[F9K9]

I'm looking to have to do the same this spring after ......................

Ain't life grand? We're both grateful to have learned things here. Imagine the costs if, we hadn't learned from real life, the internet and dropped our stuff off at places like a dealership to have the work done. No wonder so many are looking for the assistance of the current entitlement society.

[rlrnr53]

Working at a dealership many years ago taught me that I had to be self reliant.