Ethanol

[green02crew]

I know I had seen this on here somewhere but can't seem to find it now. Has anyone run e85 in their CC? It isn't available locally to me but I was wondering if it was possible. Maybe set the pcm to the highest octane rating to utilize the e85 and prevent knock. And would our fuel pump handle it without burning up?

[raven2510]

its not about octane as much as its about how corosive the fuel is....it destroys normal fuel lines

[HenryJ]

You also need close to 1/3 more fuel. The stock O2 sensors may have issues with the mixture too.

[raven2510]

You also need close to 1/3 more fuel. The stock O2 sensors may have issues with the mixture too.

oh yea and what he said...its cheaper but you get less MPG so its pointless.
E85 vehicles have special fuel lines, o-rings, injectors, and pumps, and a sensors to measure the ratio of e85 to regular gas....so that the ECU can adjust accordingly.

[green02crew]

So nobody has tried it in their CC? I'd be interested to hear what happens. I had seen a video online of a suburban that ran it and was not an e85 model and it worked fine but I can see the potential issues involved.

[roadrunner]

Unless your CC came factory equipped for flex-fuel don't do it. You'll regret it later. Your fuel system won't take it and it'll cost ya big time. Contact your local GM dealer or find on the web by year and model and serial number if yours is ethanol capable or not. Locally there is a farm implement dealer in my area installing flex-fuel kits in trucks and cars but I'm just waiting to hear people's laments later on how many fuel system problems they developed as a result. Shouldn't take too long. All this is aside from the issues on reduced mileage and performance.

[green02crew]

Bringing this one back after a couple years:
Non E-85 Tahoe run on E-85 for 100k

I would try it out just to see what happens if it was available in my area. More of a novelty and see if it can rather than saving money, seeing as it really wouldn't.

[HenryJ]

My Avalanche has an E85 engine. It looks like there may be different materials used for the intake gaskets?

I hear mileage is terrible and not enough to justify the cost savings.

[killian96ss]

Your gas mileage will drop, and your fuel system will slowly be destroyed from the corrosive nature of ethenol. You can safely run E15 which is available almost everywhere, but not E85. Even though ethenol lower gas mileage, it also offers more performance because of the higher octane rating. Depending on how you drive, vehicles equipped to run on E85 (flex fuel) can actually get the same gas mileage because of the extra power, but only if you drive the same way.

Steve

[HenryJ]

...Even though ethenol lower gas mileage, it also offers more performance because of the higher octane rating. Depending on how you drive, vehicles equipped to run on E85 (flex fuel) can actually get the same gas mileage because of the extra power, but only if you drive the same way.

It takes more ethanol compared to an equal amount of gasoline to generate equal energy. All reports that I have seen show that the mileage drops a great deal. That is reasonable since a greater amount of ethanol is required to get the same amount of energy.
Keep in mind that the higher octane does not create more power. Octane is a resistance to burn. You can use higher compression to develop more power which does require a higher octane to resist pre-ignition. That requires changing "hard engine parts" to take advantage of the available octane.

[roadrunner]

Locally there is a farm implement dealer in my area installing flex-fuel kits in trucks and cars but I'm just waiting to hear people's laments later on how many fuel system problems they developed as a result. Shouldn't take too long. All this is aside from the issues on reduced mileage and performance.

All the people here I am aware of are now running straight gas or E-10 in their "converted" vehicles due to mileage, performance, and mechanical issues. Sales of the "conversions" have dried up to nearly nil as well.

HJ stated it well in his post regarding performance and energy comparisons between ethanol and gasoline.

[Serge PETIT]

Last Year , in France the 95 octane was 1.95 $ per liter so I have tested my 2000 Blazer 4.3l Automatic with Ethanol and without conversion KIt . Price of Ethanol was 1.04 for 1 liter .
I have started with 25% Ethanol .........same power and same MPG .
Same with 30% with a variation in the MPG was around 5% less .
I increased the mixture ratio until I got the SES for weak mixture . It was with a mix of 45% of Ethanol
So I have run with 40% of Ethanol during more than 6 months with no trouble no SES but the MPG has decreased of 12 to 15% .
I was adding in the gas the same lubricant that for the LPG to proctect the top of the engine
I think that the fact of having in France either 95 or 98 octane has helped in the rather small decrease in the MPG . It would certainly be more important with a lower octane gas.
Some have installed conversion kits and the gap with 100% Ethanol was 25% to 30 % less .
The values were the same for city (50km/h limit) or highway (130km/h limit) .
Hope it may help .

[green02crew]

Interesting that it set the SES. I realize here it would be more of a novelty thing to run. I think it would be interesting to try however.

[roadrunner]

Not me! The less ethanol in fuel I have to run the better. I can notice drops in performance and mileage on as little as 10% so I sure ain't gonna try heavier mixes than that! Perhaps Serge has different emissions or other specs on his truck than on ours as he is in France?

[raven2510]

You can mix it if you wish. But it has a lower btu total compared to reg. gasoline.
It has a higher octane due to all the alcohol...but that only makes it run cooler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

If you wish to mix it...you can do like 10 gallons of reg gasoline, and 3-5 gallons of e85.

[Serge PETIT]

Not me! The less ethanol in fuel I have to run the better. I can notice drops in performance and mileage on as little as 10% so I sure ain't gonna try heavier mixes than that! Perhaps Serge has different emissions or other specs on his truck than on ours as he is in France?

I Think that we are close from the Californian rules because my Blazer is equiped with the pre-cat .
Because of the SES light starting at 50% ethanol , I think that it was corresponding to the acceptable "disorder" limit for the PCM .

[ApproachMedium]

I have a Cali emissions 4.3L in my CC with pre cat and all and my fuel mileage has dropped horribly since some stations here now are putting 15% ethanol in the gas. My GTI used to get 28 miles to the gallon I can barely get 22 in it now. My CC has dropped to 15mpg and goes from full to empty empty in just over 200 miles. These are all highway mileage driven vehicles with minimal local driving. Its really killing me in the wallet as I drive 100 miles a day for work, sometimes more if I drive into the city. Ive done numerious things to tune up the two vehicles and I cant get them to get any better milage. Im at a total loss here and may need to trade them in for a diesel soon!

[HenryJ]

Diesels are getting choked too. The particulate filters and urea systems are making them less attractive now.

There must be a point where it is greener to drive a vehicle with a lower emissions standard , yet gets higher miles per gallon.

[roadrunner]

There must be a point where it is greener to drive a vehicle with a lower emissions standard , yet gets higher miles per gallon.

There is! Unfortunately the auto makers approach has always been let em run dirty and pollution rich and clean em up with emissions systems in the exhaust after it's too late to utilize the wasted fuel for mileage or power.

[ApproachMedium]

Im sure they are but the VW TDI Truth or Dare has been providing us with plenty of actual mileage from cars with the new cleanest diesel VW has and MPGs in the 60 and 70mpg range. Maybe the american trucks and pickups are seeing issues there but apparently some of the european cars arent maybe?

[HenryJ]

European vehicles are not subject to our emissions restrictions. The S-10 crew cabs in South America have a twin turbo diesel option and are getting mileage in the fourties. Holden Chevrolet in Australia has the 3.0L turbo diesel Colorado getting 35 mpg. The English have lots of diesel fueled vehicle from which to choose.
It is just the US that is strangled it seems.

[roadrunner]

Thank the environmentalists for the strangulation. Too concerned with cleaning up dirty exhaust to realize less fuel in plus same distance traveled not only equals less pollution per mile but also improved fuel economy. Another case of closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

[ApproachMedium]

Yes america is very anti diesel. Wish that would change. The VWs I mention though are us models sold here. The milageis real with our fuels and there's cars exceed our emissions standards. In fact for a few years cali banned diesel sales untill the latest TDI jetta was released whichhas better tailpipe emissions thana prius!

I would really to have an S10 with twin turbo diesel!

[ApproachMedium]

So my crew has been down in Miami this week since Sunday experiencing warm weather and better gas than NJ. I let my godfather borrow it for a business trip and it rode down on the Amtrak Autotrain. I spoke with him today on the phone and asked how it was doing. He said he didn't think so great. I then asked him where the needle was at and what the mileage was. He said he had gone 200 miles just over a half tank. Thats a night and day difference from what I was getting which was 200 from F to Low fuel light. It calculates to somewhere about 18-20mpg compared to the 14-15 I was getting up here.

There has to be something different going on here in NJ with the fuel other than the Ethanol then. If FL and NJ are both supposed to be about 10% which is what is seen on the pumps, what else could it be that we are having up here that they dont down there?

[HenryJ]

"Nitrogen enhanced" , "oxygenated"?

[ApproachMedium]

? No idea. How would I find out?

[HenryJ]

Sometimes they boast about "nitrogen enhanced fuel" on the displays around the pumps here. How it cleans deposits, burns cleaner, etc. "Oxygenated" fuel was getting a bad rap in California, so I think their marketing people figured that we would not know there is no difference when they started calling it "nitrogen enhanced". People don't understand that we breath 70% nitrogen and that is air. They don't make the connection that "nitrogen enhanced" is a fancy way of saying "aerated fuel" , who in their right mind would buy that stuff? That would be ripping us off, right?

I don't know where you will have to dig to find out what you want to know. Are we really going to have a choice? Are we stuck with what they feed us at the pumps?

[ApproachMedium]

Ahhh I see. So I am assuming this is no good for us then. And NJ sure knows all about ripping people off.

I really dont know where to dig either. I guess we are stuck. Looks like my only choice would be to consider transferring to Florida or some place that isnt going to kill my finances with poor fuel?

[roadrunner]

Most likely you've run into the "winter blend" fuel versus "summer blend". I can't tell you the difference in what they do to the two but I can attest to the difference you'll experience in fuel mileage between the two. Besides your obvious difference in outside air temps between NJ and FL adding the effects of the fuel blend into the mix could easily account for the difference you stated in fuel mileage. And no I'm not talking ethanol blend vs straight gasoline.

[ApproachMedium]

Understood but we have never seen this large of a decrease in economy in a "winter blend". My 30mpg volkswagen went to 22mpg this year. A friend with the same car in new hampshire hasn't seen any decrease like that with his during the winter and its much colder there. That's why I was concerned with what nj might be putting in the gas this year that's screwing us more.

[roadrunner]

Only other speculation I can advance would be this: a good friend of mine who runs a gas station told me that they can add up to 10% ethanol to the fuel without telling anybody. At or over that and they have to label the pumps to indicate it. As I said just a speculation as laws regarding that issue may vary from one state to another as well. My personal experience on the 10% blend on several different vehicles it tended to reduce the performance noticeably and the mileage dropped a flat 8% in all cases.