rear axle leak

high-voltage · Post by **high-voltage** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:49 pm

I was pulling out of the garage the other day when I noticed a small puddle under my truck.
It was under the rear axle and smelt like and felt like 80-90 oil.
I pulled the axle plug and added some oil untell full. Don't know how much.
I haven't seen any more puddles in garage or at work.
What do you think I should do?

Moved to Drivetrain forum. -W

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:13 pm

Where is it leaking from? Front seal? Rear gasket? Fill plug?

Steve

high-voltage · Post by **high-voltage** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:56 pm

Looks like it was leaking from the front seal.

rlrnr53 · Post by **rlrnr53** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:46 am

I had the same problem about a month ago. the only solution is to replace the seal. I purchased mine from the local dealer for less than $8.00. While you're at it, change the diff fluid and check the vent tube. If the vent tube is located right at the fromt of the bed, relocate it so water can't drip on the tube and get sucked inside the axle. not an expensive repair, but a necessary one.

high-voltage · Post by **high-voltage** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:19 am

I figured I would have to replace the seal. Can't figure out why it would leak then stop. I will replace the fluid. It is just 80-90 right?
Thanks for the heads up about the vent tube!

rlrnr53 · Post by **rlrnr53** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:42 pm

80-90 is recommended for the rear end without the G80 locking axle, GM P/N 1052884 (pt) or 1050017 (qt)

high-voltage · Post by **high-voltage** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:00 pm

How do I know if I have the G80 locking axle?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:15 pm

Open your glove box door and look for the option on the label inside the door. It will have"G80" on it if you have it. The is a link here somewhere for all of the "RPO" codes.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:18 pm

Here you go

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:53 am

rlrnr53 wrote:80-90 is recommended for the rear end without the G80 locking axle, GM P/N 1052884 (pt) or 1050017 (qt)

Actually they both use the same gear oil.

Front and Rear Axles With Standard Differentials
Axle Lubricant (GM P/N 1052271), or SAE 80W-90 GL-5 Gear Lubricant

Rear Axles With Locking Differentials
Use only GM Axle Lubricant (GM P/N 1052271), or SAE 80W-90 GL-5 Gear Lubricant. DO NOT add friction modifier.

Steve

high-voltage · Post by **high-voltage** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:02 pm

Thanks killian96ss for clearing that up for me! I thought I had seen that on here somewhere.
It seems like it only leaks on longer drives. Is that normal?
Is it possible that the bearing is out too and how do I check that?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:24 pm

high-voltage wrote:It seems like it only leaks on longer drives. Is that normal?
Is it possible that the bearing is out too and how do I check that?

I wouldn't say it's normal, but it might only leak on longer drives because the gear oil is heating up and becoming thinner which could allow it to seep through the seal easier. I really doubt there is anything wrong with your pinion bearings. Grab the pinion yoke and try to move it in all directions. It shouldn't have any play in it. The pinion bearings are in there real tight. If you can wiggle it around then yes something is wrong.

Steve

doughboy5499 · Post by **doughboy5499** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:16 am

OK relating to this topic. Last week I had the front seal go bad too. I was told by auto zone that when replacing the nut holding the yoke in, you should torque it to 180 lb/ft. To my understanding that is the factory setting. I got it to about 150 lb/ft. Well ever since I have been getting a squeak at the end of the drive shaft. Every time the drive shaft makes a revolution it squeaks (embarrassing). I talked to a guy at the alignment shop and he said that I over torqued it. He said that when replacing the nut you should torque it to 90-110 lb/ft. If you torque it more your pushing the crush sleeve into the bearings to tight and this is the squeak I hear. So, I backed the nut off (not removing the yoke) and torqued it to 100lbs/ft but, it did not fix my squeak. Like I said it only started doing this after I put the new rear ( front ) seal in. Does anyone have any idea what this might be and how to fix?. It is quite embarrassing going through town with that sqeak and everyone staring at you. LOL

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:03 am

Actually both were incorrect. There is no specific amount of torque for the nut itself. Instead you must measure the preload by the inch pounds required to rotate the pinion.

GM data wrote:Drive Pinion Flange/Yoke and/or Oil Seal Replacement

* Tools Required J 8614-01 Flange/Pulley Holding Tool
* J 22388 Pinion Oil Seal Installer - Rear
* J 23911 Pinion Oil Seal Installer
* J 33782 Pinion Oil Seal Installer

Removal Procedure

Important

Observe and mark the positions of all the driveline components relative to the propeller shaft and the axles prior to disassembly. These components include the propeller shafts, drive axles, pinion flanges, output shafts, etc. Assemble all the components in the exact places in which you removed the parts. Follow any specifications, torque values, and measurements obtained prior to disassembly.

1. Raise the vehicle.
2. Remove the tire and wheel assemblies.
3. Remove the rear brake calipers.
4. Remove the brake rotors.
5. Remove the propeller shaft.
6. On the 7.6 inch axle only, determine the type of pinion oil seal used:
* 2 lip pinion seal -- This seal type can be identified by the short deflector (1) used on the pinion yoke/flange.
* 3 lip pinion seal -- This seal type can be identified by the long deflector (2) used on the pinion yoke/flange.
7. Measure the amount of torque required to rotate the pinion using an inch-pound torque wrench. This will give the combined preload for the following components:
* The pinion bearings
* The pinion seal
* The carrier bearings
* The axle bearings
* The axle seals
8. Record the measurement.
9. Draw an alignment mark between the pinion stem and the pinion flange/yoke.
10. Install the J 8614-01
11. Remove the pinion nut while holding the J 8614-01 .
12. Remove the washer.
13. Install the J 8614-2 and the J 8614-3 into the J 8614-01
14. Remove the pinion yoke by turning the J 8614-3 clockwise while holding the J 8614-01 .
Use a container in order to retrieve the lubricant.

Important

Do not damage the axle housing sealing surface.
15. Remove the pinion oil seal using a suitable seal removal tool.

Installation Procedure

Important

When replacing the pinion oil seal and/or the pinion flange/yoke, observe the following guidelines:
* When replacing only the pinion oil seal, the same style pinion oil seal must be used as the one that was removed.
* If replacing both the pinion oil seal and the pinion flange/yoke, the same style of pinion oil seal and the pinion flange/yoke must be used.
* The 2 lip and the 3 lip style pinion oil seals and pinion flange/yokes are not interchangeable.
1. For the 7.6 inch axle, install the new pinion gear oil seal. For the 2 lip style pinion oil seal, use the J 23911 . For the 3 lip style pinion oil seal, use the J 33782
2. For the 8.6 inch axle, install the new pinion oil seal using the J 22388 .
3. Apply sealant, GM P/N 12346004 or equivalent, to the splines of the pinion yoke.

Important

Install the pinion gear flange/yoke to the pinion gear shaft in the same position as marked during removal in order to maintain correct driveline balance.
4. Install the pinion yoke.
Align the marks made during removal.

Notice

Do not hammer the pinion flange/yoke onto the pinion shaft. Pinion components may be damaged if the pinion flange/yoke is hammered onto the pinion shaft.
5. Seat the pinion flange/yoke onto the pinion shaft by tapping it with a soft-faced hammer until a few pinion shaft threads show through the flange/yoke.
6. Install the washer and a new pinion nut.
7. Install the J 8614-01 onto the pinion flange/yoke as shown.

If the rotating torque is exceeded, the pinion will have to be removed and a new collapsible spacer installed.
8. Tighten the pinion nut while holding the J 8614-01 .

Tighten the nut until the pinion end play is removed. Rotate the pinion while tightening the nut to seat the bearings.

9. Measure the rotating torque of the pinion. Compare this measurement with the rotating torque recorded during removal.

Tighten the nut in small increments, as needed, until the rotating torque is 0.40-0.57 N·m (3-5 lb in) greater than the rotating torque recorded during removal.
10. Once the specified torque is obtained, rotate the pinion several times to ensure the bearings have seated. Check the rotating torque and adjust if necessary.
11. Install the propeller shaft.
12. Install the brake rotors
13. Install the brake calipers
14. Install the tire and wheel assemblies.
15. Inspect and add axle lubricant to the axle housing, if necessary.
16. Lower the vehicle.

You need to pull the driveshaft again and see if the pinion is stiff. By itself the pinion should take about 9 inch pounds to rotate. That is not very much. If you have overtorqued the crush sleeve, it will have to be replaced.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:04 am

I may be incorrect but I located this in GM Data

GM Data wrote:Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.

Important

If the rotating torque is exceeded, the pinion will have to be removed and a new collapsible spacer installed.

Tighten the nut until the pinion end play is removed. Rotate the pinion while tightening the nut to seat the bearings

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:01 am

doughboy5499, you will definitely need a new crush sleeve, which means you will have to completely remove the entire rear end assembly.

The correct pre-load is 20 inch pounds with a new sleeve, although the acceptable range is 15-25 inch pounds. This is a slow process as you have to turn the pinion nut 1/4 turn at a time and check the inch pound reading every time until you reach the correct pre-load. Hopefully your pinion bearings and races are ok.

If you decide to do this yourself, I can help guide you through the process.

I have done at least 5 complete rear end overhauls.

BTW, don't ever take any advice from Autozone or any other auto parts store employees.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:09 am

killian96ss wrote:The correct pre-load is 20 inch pounds with a new sleeve, although the acceptable range is 15-25 inch pounds.

Is that new or used bearings?
They do differ.

Here is the GM data:

Tighten the nut in small increments, as needed, until the rotating torque is 1.1-2.8 N·m (10-25 lb in) (used bearings) or 1.7-3.4 N·m (15-30 lb in) (new bearings).

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:40 am

HenryJ wrote:
killian96ss wrote:The correct pre-load is 20 inch pounds with a new sleeve, although the acceptable range is 15-25 inch pounds.
Is that new or used bearings?
They do differ.

Here is the GM data:
Tighten the nut in small increments, as needed, until the rotating torque is 1.1-2.8 N·m (10-25 lb in) (used bearings) or 1.7-3.4 N·m (15-30 lb in) (new bearings).

I suspect his pinion crush sleeve has been damaged and he does not know how much torque (inch pounds) were already preloaded so you have to start from scratch. If the pinion bearings were overtighten (which it certainly sound like they were) then it would be a good idea to replace the bearings and install a new crush sleeve. If the bearings are replaced, then you must also install new races since they are a matched set. A lot of this is speculation since neither one of us has actually seen the damage so it's really hard to say what the necessary action should be. My quote of 20 inch pounds is for new bearings and a new crush sleeve, although 20 inch pounds works well for used bearings also.

I would not go as high as 30 inch pounds since it can cause too much heat build up and possible damage if the vehicle is driven for an extended amount of time right after a bearing replacement. 20-25 inch pounds is what I have used in the past for new bearings.

IMO, Autozone should cover the cost of replacement parts since they gave out the wrong info which caused this problem.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:05 pm

killian96ss wrote:... My quote of 20 inch pounds is for new bearings and a new crush sleeve, although 20 inch pounds works well for used bearings also.... I would not go as high as 30 inch pounds ...

Agreed. My local drivetrain guru says that contrary to popular belief tapered roller bearings do not require preload. However they can not be run loose. You have to give them some preload so when they "run-in" they do not get loose.
9" Ford pinions are set at 9 inch pounds. I would say you would be wise to err to the lower side rather than high side.

In this case we do not really know if they have been over torqued until he drops the driveshaft and checks the preload. Heck it could even be too loose for all we know.
That squeak could have been a bent dust shield , or bad u-joint. It really is hard to know for sure from here.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:41 pm

HenryJ wrote:In this case we do not really know if they have been over torqued until he drops the driveshaft and checks the preload. Heck it could even be too loose for all we know.
That squeak could have been a bent dust shield , or bad u-joint. It really is hard to know for sure from here.

Very true. I may be jumping the gun a bit on suggestions since I don't know for sure what's making the noise. It may be something simple like you mentioned above. It's not even my vehicle and I'm fired up about how some people give advise on how to fix something when they obviously have no clue what their talking about.

If they don't know the answer they should just say so, instead of acting like the know it all mechanic and screwing up someones ride.

Steve

doughboy5499 · Post by **doughboy5499** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:50 am

I appreciate everyone help. I don't know if I am going to do this myself or not. Sounds like some fun but, I am working two jobs right now and don't have alot of time to mess with it. I might take it to the alignment shop. I suspected that it was the crush sleeve and/or the bearings after I was told I over torqued them. But i also thought of the u-joints too. I did'nt know where to start. As for Autozone paying for the repairs, that would be great, but it would be a hard fight. His word against mine. Even if he remembers me. All he has to do is deny it. What kind of money am I looking at if I do it myself compared to having somone do it for me? I know it will be cheaper to do it myself but..... again thanks for all your help I will keep you posted when I decide what I am going to do.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:08 am

doughboy5499 wrote:I might take it to the alignment shop.

Don't forget they also gave you the wrong information and most alignment shops don't do rear end repairs. I don't even think I would trust an alignment shop to repair a rear end.

I would look for a shop in your area that specializes in rear end repairs.

What kind of money am I looking at if I do it myself compared to having somone do it for me?

You are looking at roughly $100 in parts and $100-$200 in labor if your bearings need to be replaced, but you need to have it looked at first to determine what the actual problem is. You might get lucky and only need a u-joint or something simple like that.

The most important lesson learned here is never ever ever ever trust the advice given by an auto parts store employee!

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:49 pm

killian96ss wrote:...never ever ever ever trust the advice given by an auto parts store employee!

There are some good ones out there. Get to know them a little and learn who to trust.
Much the same statement could be said for the internet

Wait a second! I may resemble that remark

( Note to self: learn to keep fingers tied... )

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:26 pm

HenryJ wrote:
killian96ss wrote:...never ever ever ever trust the advice given by an auto parts store employee!
There are some good ones out there. Get to know them a little and learn who to trust.

There are a few, but you got to admit a lot of these guys think they are master mechanics just because they work in an auto parts store.

I have even met a few GM dealership mechanics that don't know what the hell they are doing, and they really get bent when you prove them wrong.

Steve

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:09 am

Alright, well... looks like I joined this club.... Just when i think this is gonna be a good truck....

let me ask here first to make sure its the right problem...

Noticed today a lot of oil slung over every thing under my rear end. After driving I noticed white fluid on the bottom of the yoke where the drive shaft meets the diff. Theres still plenty of oil in the diff when I checked the level. Some even came out like it was over filled? But I know I didn't over fill it when I put new 75 90w Mobil 1 in it a few months ago.

Sound like the pinion seal, Im gonna do a lot more searching and reading, but is this something I can handle myself? Im leary of messing with stuff like this,, but would rtaher do it myself too.

And would any part of my lifting have caused this?

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:10 am

It sounds like you got water in the diff. Is the vent line relocated or have you been in the creek again?The white fluid is water and oil trying to mix. Need to drain clean and refill. If the seal is bad you will need to get opinion on how hard it is from someone who has done it.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:36 am

fallvitals wrote: Im gonna do a lot more searching and reading, but is this something I can handle myself?

Read above and see what you think. You will need a needle type inch pound torque wrench

And would any part of my lifting have caused this?

No.

Check the U-joints while you have the driveshaft off and think about replacing the transfercase output seal while you have things apart.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:08 am

The vent line isnt relocated (yet). But i havent had my truck in a creek yet. Well I take that back i took it through a stram that was about 1/2" deep.i thought the white fluid was gear oil that had been very recently used? i recall seeing a redline video about gear oil, and when its in use to turns into a white color?

From this thread and another I think its something i can do.. Just not over torquing seems to be the key.And ill need to get one of those torque wrenches, ours wisnt like what I need for this job. a seal puller, and we have a big pipe wrench of other goodies...

Would the 75-90wt gear oil also played a factor when 80-90 is recommended?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:20 am

Aerated gear lube can sort of look white, but the difference from water contaminated is obvious.

If your vent has not been relocated you fill the diff with water when it rains or you wash it.

Under torquing may be worse than over. Tapered roller bearings need a little preload.

The difference in oil wt is negligible.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:21 am

fallvitals wrote:The vent line isnt relocated (yet). But i havent had my truck in a creek yet. Well I take that back i took it through a stram that was about 1/2" deep.i?..........................

The water getting into the vent isn't from water crossings, it from rain and snow if, it is still located between the cab and bed.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:35 am

Well, I tried googling for a picture of "water contamination gear lube" couldnt find one. Never seen it.. can you give a better discription of water contamination vs aerated gear lube?

It could be contaminated, but i cant see it getting that bad in only a few months? But never know, either way, its onna have to be replaced when I do this seal.

I hate to ask this, but where should you relocate the vent tube to? I have read many threads but never saw a concrete answer?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:08 am

Air bubbles will disappear. Inspect it closely you will be able to tell. Place a sample in a glass and watch it.

Extending rear end breathing vent or relocating axle vent

Water in the axle/differential AGAIN!!

Aarrghhh Another Leak....Pinion Seal Leak????

Here's mine:

gocntry · Post by **gocntry** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:29 am

fallvitals wrote:Well, I tried googling for a picture of "water contamination gear lube" couldnt find one. Never seen it.. can you give a better discription of water contamination vs aerated gear lube?

When I Had That Problem The Best Description I Could Give Was It Kinda Looked Like Gray Milk

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:57 pm

Alrighty. Let me beat the dead horse again.

I have read the directions over and over. The jist of what I need to do is, remove the tires, brake calipers, and propeller shaft.

First whats the propeller shaft? I found this diagram on gm parts direct and it didn't list it?

What whichever it is, is it just a slide in, and slide out part?

Then, remove the drive shaft. I want to make a mark on every piece of the driveline I remove and reassemble every piece in the same spot exactly as it was when I started right?

Since all the tires and such is removed the diff has no resistance, and the torque wrench is now used to read the poundage the nut is tightened at, once the yoke/pinion moves, thats your reading.

Then, carefully take it apart, remove the seal, properly install the new seal. Then when it comes time to bolt it back together, crank the nut down some, then turn the pinion to set the bearings, keeping repeating this process till the proper poundage you got earlier is reached?

then put it all back together?

Do I got it right? If so, it doesn't seem bad.

Im gonna get a seal puller, that torque wrench, and we already have a large pipe wrench. I am also gonna go to the dealer to get the seal, and I read in another thread here replacing the nut is a good idea. so ill do that too.

Also move the vent line to the location yours is at Brule.

Also, Will I need to take the difff cover off to drain the fluid, or will it drain adequatly when I remove the seal?

edit- while googling, I found directions on a different diff/pinion seal. Basically, they left the tires on, and on the ground, marked the socket un screwed the nut while counting how many turns it took, and screwed it back on, coutnting the turns and lining it back up with the mark. Seems simplistic. But possibly a bad idea, more to go wrong?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:22 pm

Propeller shaft is the driveline. The shaft that propels the rear drive axles.

You will have to pull the cover to drain the oil.

Sounds like you have a good grasp. Either method may work just fine.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:45 pm

Alrighty, just making sure I got the right idea. Messing with this kinda stuff makes me nervous, lol.

Never heard the drive shaft called a propeller shaft.

I was thinking thats what it might be, but wasnt 100%.

The funny part im dreading pulling that stupid cover/putting it back on with RTV again more then replacing the seal! lol.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:09 am

Check out the thread on the cover gaskets. Slots for oiling the side bearings are preferred.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:19 am

fallvitals wrote:................What whichever it is, is it just a slide in, and slide out part?

Ummmmmmm #12 is in 2 pieces. The shaft you are talking about is not the donut looking ring gear. It's the part with all the pieces before and after it.

fallvitals wrote:edit- while googling, I found directions on a different diff/pinion seal. Basically, they left the tires on, and on the ground, marked the socket un screwed the nut while counting how many turns it took, and screwed it back on, coutnting the turns and lining it back up with the mark. Seems simplistic. But possibly a bad idea, more to go wrong?

That is another method that many people use but, if, you screw it up you will have no "before readings". Then you would probably want to yank the whole rear diff and take it to a pro.

Don't asked me how I know.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:32 am

Pull the cover and drain the oil, first. I hpe you find everything OK.
Should you find a worst case scenario, you will not have wasted your new pinion seal.

Worst case scenario = water damage and time for all new bearings.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:00 am

f9k9 wrote:
fallvitals wrote:................What whichever it is, is it just a slide in, and slide out part?
Ummmmmmm #12 is in 2 pieces. The shaft you are talking about is not the donut looking ring gear. It's the part with all the pieces before and after it.

Im a little confused, I know #12 is the pinion gear and pinion shaft. I was asking what the propeller shaft was? Which Brule answered its the Drive Shaft.

But I think I have a much better idea what im dealing with, its still raining, but im gonna get under there and see if I can siphon out some gear oil. And if I cant find a clamp in the garage move the vent line.

The leak is much wort now, it was just a little 1 1/2" spot on the drive way, its larger now, but im sure the rain from last night displaced it some to make it look that way also. God, I hope its just the seal and not bearings... now I need to study the diagram above to see where the bearings are...

btw, the bearings, will I see em when I take the cover off, or is there some disassembly required there?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:03 am

The condition of the oil is going to tell the story. Drop that cover and drain it.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:42 am

HenryJ wrote:The condition of the oil is going to tell the story. Drop that cover and drain it.

No need in worrying about anything else until do what Brule suggests. The whole game plan may change once we know what you have under the cover.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:43 am

Im not gonna drop the cover till I go to change it (or atleast have the tools needed to do the repair), would me taking a sample from it tell the same story?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:46 am

Not really. The bad stuff is on the bottom and you can not get to it from the fill hole.
You better move "changing it" up to the top of your list.
If it does have water in it, the damage is still being done, even sitting still. Oxidation never sleeps.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:51 am

Alright, well. Guess i can get some cheaper bottles of conventional gear oil to fill it back up with, becuase if the seal is my only concern, it will have to be drained again before repairing?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:00 am

No. Just topped off as you will not lose much if any changing the seal. Oil to that bearing is delivered when the ring gear slings oil to the channel above it. The bottom of the seal is only just below the oil level too.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:03 am

even with the truck jacked up and on jack stands?

let me ask one more question, only becuase im in uncharted waters, lol. What "bad stuff" would be in the bottom of the diff? Seems like, if I just look in the fill hole, and if theres water I should see it? water and oil will part, my truck hasnt been driven in over 24 hours? Im not saying your wrong! im just trying to better understand

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:26 am

Which is lighter oil or water? Where does the metal go?

If it is all mixed up from being run the mixture can be seen. Let that bottle of Zesty Italian dressing sit and see what you have.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:00 pm

Alrighty, update.

Dad and I looked at it. Didn't drain it, but do infact have water contamination. I checked the front diff to see what the oil looked like up there fine. In the rear diff its gray milky colored.

We took off the vent hose, im gonna relocate it after this then restart my skidz project again. We took it off, and blew air through it, and nothing came out, I know those vents are notorious for water leaks, but I relaly dont think thats my problem.

We are thinking, which its similer to what Brule told me in a PM. The seal went bad, and water started coming in through the yoke/seal. And in our thinking, sine this leak just started withe nthe last week, water shouldnt have been getting in there for very long. So, im hopefully no/little damage is done.

I want to drain the diff, but if its still coming in through the seal,, its gonna get contaiminated again and im gonna be changing it in a few days... idk.. ill think it over...

Oh, Brule got me good on the oil/water thing. Apperantly I forgot elemantry school science thinking the water would be ontop

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:15 pm

It is pretty hard to get water contamination in through the pinion seal in great quantities unless forced by deep water. Centrifical force tends to sling water out. And oil as you can see. I suppose it can happen though.
The vent problem is pretty well documented and has been a problem for several of these trucks.

Get the water out of there as soon as you can.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:36 pm

Pull the friggin' cover already! Find out what is in the bottom of your diff. Walmart's SuperTech's line has stuff that exceeds most requirements. Get a couple of cans of el' cheapo brake cleaner and hose out the inside of the diff. It will evaporate completely in under 20 minutes. The gray milky coloration of the oil is moving things around a bit now. A digital camera and pics will pay for themselves in this type of situation.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Yes Yes, its pulled.

I took a lot of pictures with my cell phone. Its a 3.2 mega pixel, havent really tried it out yet, ill upload em this evening. If they arent good, ill get the trusty sony f717 out.

So i pulled the cover, lots of the milky oil ran out. in the bottom, im not seeing any metal shavings or any thing, no metal shavings on the magnet either.

Every thing looks clean except for a small coat of rust ontop of a bearing casing. Dad says it no big deal, I dont think it is either. Its just on top of the bearing case. I think I lucked out. But ill post pictures later, I took a bathroom break from the last fender (front passanger) on my skidz cut.

Ill do the break cleaner thing too. Im not gonna put this truck back together till its ready to be fixed, I can use someone else's car till then. Plus im thinking that torque wrench should be here wed. Thursday at the latest.

Is it better to get the pinion seal from the dealer or any auto store? Im pretty certain I have the 7.6 diff? its a g80. I figure the dealer would be more knowledgable to get me the correct seal?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:02 pm

Get enough oil to change it again soon. Warm it up really good and drop it again to flush out the moisture.
Unless you pull the axles, carrier and wheel bearings you will never get a really clean housing. Oil gets trapped in the axle tubes.

You will have to be the judge of a good seal. The dealer doesn't make them, so aftermarket suppliers may have the same seal available. I am pretty sure Paul (Quickbiker) had a good tutorial about changing the seal and what his choice was. Seems like there are two to choose from.
Best choice would be to remove yours and take it in with you to get one. Crossing the number and comparing it is the best way to find the right one.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:00 pm

HenryJ wrote:Get enough oil to change it again soon. Warm it up really good and drop it again to flush out the moisture.........

Another excellent reason to do the Wallyworld Supertech king size jug. Make sure it meets the owner's manual requirements.

There is no need to jump into a pinion seal until you see what happens here.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:10 pm

If your Dad doesn't think it looks too bad, believe him. He has not steered you wrong yet. Clean it all up. Install your new seal and change the oil again soon.
Keep your fingers crossed that you will never have to go back in there again.

Read the thread on differential fluids. There are differing opinions on what works best in the G80. Finding one that meets the specs can take some leg work. i finally found some at NAPA. None of the other parts stores around here had anything compatible, IMO. Reed is right that any cheap stuff will work as a flush-n-dump fluid".

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:10 pm

Dad is pretty knowledgable. I sometimes under estimate him. I was thinkig of going and getting the wallyworld fluid tonight, but Ill jsut do it tommorow. im gonna go out now and clean as much of the fluid from the diff as i can while i wait for the primer on my fenders to dry. I got a can of brake cleaner so ill hit it with that too.

Hm, sothe Mobil 1 I ut in wasnt compatible? Ill search for that thread here in a bit.

Thanks for the help guys.

Though I agree its unlikely water got in through the seal, expecially since I havent crossed any creeks, but when I dumped the old oil in it, it wasnt contaiminated. And the seal issues just started...

I mean, if the vent was relaly my issue seems like when I changed it the first time, I would have known something was up then. Crazy stuff.

rlrnr53 · Post by **rlrnr53** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:53 pm

Believe Brule! The vent is nortorious for water contamination. The way mine was mounted, the rain water would get in it. Caught mine early, just had to change the seal, fluid and relocate the vent hose. If I were closer, I would be happy to help,but there are only so many hours in a day. With twin teenagers, an 88 year old mother, and my better half, I don't have time for a lot of extras.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:11 pm

I think the vent may have played apart in it. I just find it hard to blame the vent, when the old oil in the diff was in there, for, well. Id guess since the first oil change, thats the only entry in the vehicle records. And it came out looking fine. Then 3 months later I have a serious water contamintion issue? Maybe it was. theres not many things to blame....

Thanks for the offer, heck your just a hair over an hour away. But, i should have it under control, lol. I dont think this is gonna be as bad of a repair as I first thought.

And i got the pictures uploaded, I didnt make them >100k so you cane get better detail out of em, for a phone the pictures arent too bad. It starts with oil on the ground then me progressing to removing the cover. In the diff on the left hand side you can see the little strip of rust on the bearing cover, but the bearing looks fine. Theres also a picture of my relocated vent hose.

http://imageevent.com/rc_racer_007/s10lift

rlrnr53, did you misspell your town in the location box?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:26 pm

You better thank your drowning water foul for pointing out a problem in your rear axle. That leaky pinion saved your bacon. Leaving that in there could have been a big problem in the end. Things don't look great, but you may survive.

Don't buy a lottery ticket. I think you already used your luck.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:42 pm

Your eye is better trained then mine, aside from the little bit of rust on the bearing casing, what doesnt' look great?

And, I have heard you and Reed mention water fowl before,, Apperantly it has something to do with luck, but I have never heard any phrase like that before?

But yes, the bacon is saved. Thank goodness. Vent is relocated, a bit higher and in a more 'confined' area. Once my gap guards are installed, it should be pretty hard for water to splash up there. Gonna go to wallyworld, get that gear oil tommorow, along with other stuff for the seal repair. This turned out to be a bit more serious then I first thought

http://www.ofna.com/air-filters.html

Im thinking maybe one of those can be put over the vent to help protect it a bit more..

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:57 pm

all that water can do terrible things to bearing surfaces. Todays discoloration will be tomorrows pits.

For the filter. You don't want anything that will soak up and retain water. I have zip-tied Scotchbrite over a vent before. Even just a piece of lint free cloth can be good.

Reed's problem is that his pet ducks don't float. The joke is even something that should know how to swim on instinct alone seems to drown if he looks like he wants to own one.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:01 pm

Gotcha Gotcha.

Well ill pretend I didn't heard nothing about the discoloration, and tommorows issues... it will never happen if i didnt hear it!!! LALALALALAAAAA.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:40 pm

Just change the rear diff oil again next weekend or sooner. Now you know it is no big deal. You'll learn to buy larger RTV tubes and to clean out the tubes when done. You have already dove into stuff that 90% of the public would pay out the arse to have a dealer do. Every new tool is an investment. There is no expiration date on them. Sometimes they may seem high but, compare tool costs to repairs made by a dealer.

Thank people like Brule and make sure he knows that if, he passes nearby, you'll buy them dinner and maybe a cold brew.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:57 pm

f9k9 wrote:Just change the rear diff oil again next weekend or sooner. Now you know it is no big deal. You'll learn to buy larger RTV tubes and to clean out the tubes when done. You have already dove into stuff that 90% of the public would pay out the arse to have a dealer do. Every new tool is an investment. There is no expiration date on them. Sometimes they may seem high but, compare tool costs to repairs made by a dealer.

Thank people like Brule and make sure he knows that if, he passes nearby, you'll buy them dinner and maybe a cold brew.

My plan for the diff fluid is to put it in tommorow, aside from going to work, not really going any where till my truck is fixed (hopefully wed). But ill make a point to go on a nice long drive to get every thing circulating in there. Im goig out of town fri-mon (geeze without me posting this palce will be dead

)So ill just dump it when I do the repair.

But yes, I do thank both of you a biit on here, I make it a point to say it

But yeah, most definantly, if Brule ever finds himself on my side of the country, No problem. Maybe evn you Reed, but I dont know about you boys down in Kentucky..

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:05 pm

Also, is there any way for me to tell which size ring gear I have? I think its 7.625? I have a G80.

let me also ask,,, when I put the cover back on for the walmart gear oil, im just gonna use rtv (black) to seal it. When I sealed it last time, I used a gasket, and RTV on both sides of it. Whats the best way, or does it matter? It seems like rtv would make a fine gasket by itself?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:51 am

Doesn't matter on the color of RTV. On the CC I used a gasket with it on one side. On the heep, I don't bother with a gasket.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:53 am

Check out the thread on differential gaskets and covers. It explains the need for the slots or holes in the gasket.

You have the 7.625. It is the same cover as the 7.5. They are both oval covers. The 8.5 is round.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:56 pm

Update, went and got every thing I need. They had to order the seal, but it will be here tommorow. My torque wrench was shipped, but wont be here till wed. Sadly my normal UPS brother is off this week, so we have another guy delivering,, who,, well, our familys dont see eye to eye... and he always delivers late in the day when he is delivering. so.. Probably early thursday.

But i got some of the walmart oil, and put it in. Was gonna drive to work tonight, but that window weld stuff on my fenders isnt set yet, so, im taking another vehicle.

Edit, got home, and check the leak, still very much there, didnt think it would go away, just now CLEAN oil! lol.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:58 am

Question. Buddy of mine was just over on his lunch break. I told him about my fortune with the pinion seal. He mentioned I might have an issue with the U joint. That when they get old the little rubber gasket on it will go bad, and more then liekly it will come apart when i take the drive shaft off, and all the needle bearings go eveyr where, or I might get lucky and it be rusted together, lol.

he said either way, It would probably be a good idea to replace it since its only $10-$15 and ill have it apart any ways... Is it worth it?

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:22 am

I would check it first. They are not that far into things. If you have never changed one, you will need some help. A torch is required to melt the retainer on a stock u-joint.

I would just check it first. No sense changing if there is nothing wrong with it.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:45 am

Eff that then, he said it was a simple pop on and pop off thing....

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:34 pm

fallvitals wrote: Eff that then, he said it was a simple pop on and pop off thing....

He's watching to much monster garage.

BTW, you missed a duck and it got me today! The front Dana 44's pinion seal is leaking in the heep, I noticed it today!

rlrnr53 · Post by **rlrnr53** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

It took me about 45 min to change my rear u-joint. A coworker let me use his garage and torches. it took a while even wity both of us working on it.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:29 pm

f9k9 wrote:
fallvitals wrote: Eff that then, he said it was a simple pop on and pop off thing....
He's watching to much monster garage. BTW, you missed a duck and it got me today! The front Dana 44's pinion seal is leaking in the heep, I noticed it today!

Come up my way Thursday, we can see who can do it faster! lol. Loser Buys Dinner!.... That means I should start saving.

DLP · Post by **DLP** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:13 pm

Sounds like he was talking about the caps falling off. Not melting the joints out. Take care when you pull the retainers off. Using a screwdriver you can pop the full bearings out of the cups. Take black tape and wrap the caps on so they don't get bumped off before you drop the drive shaft.