body lift, bigger tires, then what mods?

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:32 am

I want my crew cab a little higher, a think a 2" body lfit and bigger tires, (arent 31s the biggest you wanna go?, i cant recall...)

well after all that... wont the bigger tires, effect your gearing, and speedometer? tell me about the effects of the larger tires on your vehicle and what has to be done to correct it, if any thing?

p.s. i did some reading on body lifts,, i think if i do it, ill get the truck paid off first. maybe get another truck and use this as my pleasure vehicle, but thats a while away, lol. But you never know, might get the bug to do it myself sooner then i think... but from what I read here, BLs arent too bad... I have a buddy from the country, thats all he and his friends did (well not all, but they did it a lot).. he says its hard.. he wont do one again.. and hes very mechanically, more so then me, inclined.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:18 am

Plenty of help here to do the body lift. A friend to sit down and read them to you will help. Anyone with some minor "wrench'n" skills can do one. It is no more difficult than what you have gone through installing the shields. Download the instructions from our website modifications page and read them over. Read a few installs in the threads here. Plan on it taking a leisurely weekend to complete. You will do fine. 30" to 31" is as big as you will be installing without some REAL cutting. Even then a trim or hammer massage may be needed.

To correct the speedometer I bought a HPPIII. The dealer can also make the adjustment. Check your RPO codes and see what gears you have. I have the 3.73 and 33" tires. Even those with the 3.42 have been happy with up to a 31" tire.

Personally , I would invest in a few performance enhancements first. Open the intake and exhaust. Add some firming for the transmission.
On the cheap some of it can be done free. The airbox and headlight support as well as fine tuning the TPS.
The exhaust can be as simple as just adding a free flowing muffler and perhaps deleting the precat.
Invest in a good tune-up. Plugs-cap-rotor and some cleaner. Used programmers are around , so for under $250 all together, you can make a big difference in performance and not hurt the gas mileage. Maybe even help it.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:18 am

Anyone can do a bodylift on a crew cab. It's very simple. As far as tires, you shouldn't have any rubbing issues with 30s and it doesn't throw off the spedometer too much. With 31s you may have some rubbing issues and you would probably have to recalibrate your spedometer.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:49 am

The shields were cake, (i only needed so much advice cuase those stupid bolts had me confused as all get out), i cant see the body lift being as easy as that now. But im sure I could do it with some cut knuckles, bleeding, nocking something liquid over, cussing, and about 5 more hours then I schedualed for. lol.

I have 3.73 gears in mine. Though honestly, im not that big of a gear head to know what that really means

I plan on changing the spark plugs soon, maybe looking at the rotor-cap. When my stock muffler finally bites it, or i have te cashto replace it, im gonna put in a dynomax kit. i would really like to cut that pre-cat off.

i thought about the air box stuff, i read some places to not mess with it, for some reason. but i might just... not sure what the headlight support is, ill have to check out the mod page, or search it. But whats a "TPS" and firming for the tranny?

Whats some good programmers? I never wanted one cause i didnt want to hurt my gas milage, this day and age, but if i can improve performance and not hurt mpg...

now body lift. The thing about the body lift and me, it will look better, no doubt. but the only real lift will come from bigger tires, if i got 31s. thats only 1" gain after all that. I dont think i can justify it... thought about the torsion bars but, dont want to have CV issues.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:07 am

3.73 is plenty low enough. Actually the lowest gear set available stock. You may even see better mileage from taller tires. If you are going mild a nice set of 30" tires would be the ticket. Check out AZS10Crew's (Mark's) old truck for an excellent example.

Your stock muffler will not "bite it". It is a sturdy Stainless steel design. Check out the stock muffler thread for just how restrictive it is. There is a reason the truck is so quiet.

Firming the tranny is done by reprogramming. A very nice improvement, IMO. Don't buy a programmer for the performance. You will not see much. It is great for correcting the tire size and firming the transmission though. Hypertech may be your only choice. Quite a few used ones are around.

When you go in for an alignment, adjust to the maximum Z height. This is also described in our stock information page.

An inch does matter. Every bit counts when it comes to ground clearance.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:50 am

Searching some tonight, I came across a thread where a guy backed his crew cab into a pole with a body lift installed. Pushed the bed into the cab, he seems to think it was due to the body lift not being as secure as a stock truck.

So.. how safe is a body lift? Say I get T-boned, the cab isnt gonna rip from the frame or something is it?

(it wont be that extreme im sure, but i think you see where i am going. I dont want to install something that is potentially dangerous for me, and who ever else is in my truck).

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:29 am

fallvitals wrote:I dont want to install something that is potentially dangerous for me, and who ever else is in my truck).

I don't either.

There are extremes in bodylifts that can be questionable. There are also bodylift components that may be less than acceptable. Neither is the case in a 2" body lift for our truck.

Jongo88 · Post by **Jongo88** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:21 am

fallvitals wrote:The shields were cake, (i only needed so much advice cuase those stupid bolts had me confused as all get out), i cant see the body lift being as easy as that now. But im sure I could do it with some cut knuckles, bleeding, nocking something liquid over, cussing, and about 5 more hours then I schedualed for. lol.

I have 3.73 gears in mine. Though honestly, im not that big of a gear head to know what that really means

I plan on changing the spark plugs soon, maybe looking at the rotor-cap. When my stock muffler finally bites it, or i have te cashto replace it, im gonna put in a dynomax kit. i would really like to cut that pre-cat off.

i thought about the air box stuff, i read some places to not mess with it, for some reason. but i might just... not sure what the headlight support is, ill have to check out the mod page, or search it. But whats a "TPS" and firming for the tranny?

Whats some good programmers? I never wanted one cause i didnt want to hurt my gas milage, this day and age, but if i can improve performance and not hurt mpg...

now body lift. The thing about the body lift and me, it will look better, no doubt. but the only real lift will come from bigger tires, if i got 31s. thats only 1" gain after all that. I dont think i can justify it... thought about the torsion bars but, dont want to have CV issues.

Just to let you know. I just got home form getting the pre cat cut off and there is no change in the way it runs. It has the same power and sound.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:28 am

Still running the stock muffler? If so it is understandable.

Hard to see how anything makes it through that tiny hole.

Jongo88 · Post by **Jongo88** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:38 am

I really would like to keep it quiet. I had a cat back system on my blazer and it got very old hearing it on trips.
I guess I'm getting old.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:45 pm

I think I have a rough idea in my head what i want to do.

I am seriously thinking about a torsion bar lift. but only 1"-1.25" total. I dont want to put any more of an angle on the CV's then I should. Reading this changed my mind on the torsion lift:

"Most of us who have cranked the t-bars have had little problem outside of a CV boot thrown. " - from another thread somewhere.

Is that pretty accurate with the torsion lift? and a thrown boot is fixed with an automotive clamp right?

Depending on the funds, either a shackle or boise springworks kit. Probably a shackle kit to be cheap. Not worried about new shocks till after all my lifting is done.

Then the body lift.

Now tires... even with a 2" body lift, and 1" from a torsion lift, I can only fit 31s in there without cutting the fender right? If i wanted to go bigger then 31s, I will have to cut it? And was Skidz the only flares that we can use?

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:04 pm

fallvitals wrote:"Most of us who have cranked the t-bars have had little problem outside of a CV boot thrown. " - from another thread somewhere.

Is that pretty accurate with the torsion lift? and a thrown boot is fixed with an automotive clamp right?

Even those that have made no adjustments have had a boot leak. Easy fix.

Not worried about new shocks till after all my lifting is done.

Worry.
Bodylifting and a torsion bar adjustment will not affect the shocks. They remain the stock length. If you still have stock shocks, you needed new ones at least five years ago. Biggest improvement you will make. bump it to the top of the list.

...with a 2" body lift, and 1" from a torsion lift, I can only fit 31s in there without cutting the fender right? If i wanted to go bigger then 31s, I will have to cut it? And was Skidz the only flares that we can use?

Skidz were the only flare made that were for sale for a short time. KCustom's pocket flares were a one off set. There are currently no options for cut out flares. The cuts can be made and no flares added as one has already done. Still waiting for someone to try F150 flares.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:20 pm

fallvitals wrote:.............Not worried about new shocks till after all my lifting is done.............

If, you have the original shocks, I would put shock replacement at the very top of my list. Mine were junk at 600 miles!!

fallvitals wrote:.......Is that pretty accurate with the torsion lift? and a thrown boot is fixed with an automotive clamp right?..........

Any large hose style clamp will work.

fallvitals wrote: ........Now tires... even with a 2" body lift, and 1" from a torsion lift, I can only fit 31s in there without cutting the fender right? If i wanted to go bigger then 31s, I will have to cut it? And was Skidz the only flares that we can use?

Stock wheels you "might" get by with 31s and minor trimming. I had to do minor trimming with 4.75" back spaced wheels and 30" tires with the set up you are planning.

No other flares other than the bushwhackers that need extensive modifications to make them work.

You might as well get friendly with the following tools.

BFH

Sawzall

I got to use a couple of new ones on my heep this weekend.

3" hole saw through my firewall.

And a sabre saw on my cowling.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:22 pm

The Brulester beat me again!

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:38 pm

Well, i thought about it, read about it in some posts here. ill be honest, I dont know what wheel backspacing is.. some im not sure what that means for me. I plan on using the stock rims.

*question removed*

If I have too... could I do the skidz cuts, then use some spray in bedliner type stuff to "paint" the 'flare' on the fender? Over all I dont want it to look crappy.

If I can't go with 31s, i just dont want to do the body lift. I know every little bit helps, but im not gonna go through all that, to get only 1/2" more clearance with 30s, to not be able to get atleast 31s. on it. If i cant get atleast one inch more clearance, just doesnt seem worth it.

Worst case, ill do the torsion crank/shackles (or springs). Can I put on 30s with only a torsion crank/shackles?

edit - and let me ask one more tire size question, what could I have to do to put in 32s, or 33s, with only a torsion, body lift, and Skidz cuts?

edit again. I found another thread ( http://www.s-10crewcab.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1064 ) It pretty much answered a lot of my questions, wish i saw it first. So basically even if i did go with a 31" tire it would have to be a "small" 31", 30.5 or so. So there really wouldnt be a differance in using a real 30" vs a "small 31", right?

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:20 pm

Not much of a difference at all between the 30 and 31. I found width was actually the bigger issue as it would hit the frame. I can fit a 31 now with just a torsion bar crank, 1" spacers up front and shackles. I cranked my torsion bars up all the way. That was 34k miles ago. No issues other than thrown grease from a cv boot. They are cranked higher than recommended. My case may be rare perhaps?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:57 pm

I hope that I didn't scare you away from the mod. The cutting is minimal and normally restricted to the rear bottom of the front fender well. I am guessing at 2-3/8ths inch that no one would see from above that level.

I don't know where you at at in WV but, if, I can help you, I will.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:40 am

So according to green02, theres little differance in a 30 and 31. Which, seems to mimic the "small 31 tire" I found in the thread I linked to above. heres a quote from HenryJ:
"Small 31's (30.5" or under)
Most of the 30's are really close to the same size as the stock (optional) offroad tires , 235/75-15."

When you say they hit the frame, im assuming thats when you had the wheels turned hard left or right only?

Ill ask my uncle to save me a used set of 30s and 31s when someone comes in for new tires. Hes got me a couple set of used tires for FREE like that before. Perk of him running the shop, and being family owned. And i can play with those and see what happens. And if nothing else, set down with him and check out a bunch of tires and their actual height.

Let me ask, how much of a torsion lift do you think you could "safely" do? Im thinking 1.25"? I would love 1.5" but I think it would be to much to "safely" do. im probably just being too wimpy about it.

f9k9, im in Dunbar, its just across the river from South Charleston. But, the fender mod... you cant use the stock fender flares after that mod, right?

If so, thats the thing, I want flares. Even if stock, (which is my only option), and if i did the skidz cut, and needed spacers, that would look awful. (and spacers are those aluminum hub things that make the wheel stance wider, right?)

I figure, with 30s, thats .5" lift. and torsion/shackles, thats 1.5" of lift. 2" total. Thats a pretty decent ammount.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:04 am

Let me copy paste this post from HenryJ I also found, The question he replyed to was about a 31" fitting a blazer with a 2" body lift and 1.5" shackle and TB.

"There are many reasons why it will and won't work.
Some has to do with the suspension , or how much it has settled over the years.
Then there is the differences in actual diameter of a "31" inch tire. Smaller import cases can run from 30.2 inches to the domestic ones as big as a 31.2 inches.
As a rule those under 30.5 inches seem to clear pretty well.

Now you have to consider the sidewall design. With rounded lugs at the corner there tends to be better clearance than a squared shoulder offers.

This is all assuming you are using the stock width wheels and offset , or rearspacing. Changes in either of those will affect the clearance as well.

The best you can do is to put a front tire up on a good high curb, turn the tire to where it is closest to the rear of the front fender and measure your available clearance. Leave 1/2" clearance and the rest can be tire."

What im looking at is GoodYear Wranger Silent Armors, 31X10.50R15LT (not sure what LT means). They are actually 30.5 wide.

I have the 29" on my truck now, they have a fairly rounded edge.

Can i do this measureing technique with a curb, before I lift, so I have a better idea what I have to work with? The way henryj is sounding, as well as green 02 (except for his 1" spacer) With that tire, i should be in the clear, or have to do very little moding?

im assuming the spacers are to help give you more clearance for rubbing the frame. I see in the classifieds someone is selling a set of 5 X 4.75 to 5 X 4.75 Wheel Adapter 1.30", would that be something i more then likely would need also?

sorry for all the questions, but those i just asked should get me on the track i need to be on. thanks for all the help.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:19 am

Adding spacers is the same as reducing back space. Our wheels are 6" back spaced stock. Adding a 1.25" spacer is like changing to a 4.75" back spaced wheel. A spacer or different BS wheel wheel put you into the sheet metal with a stock tire at stock hgt. There is a sacrifice no matter what you do with these rigs. I had to build up my steering stops to prevent frame rubbage with 4.75" back spaced wheels.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:48 am

well.. did a lot of reading... i think "30s" are going to be the way to go.

my current tires are 29s (28.9 in reality).

30X9.5X15 GoodYear Wranger Silent Armows are 29.5"
No rubbing, or mods. Gaining .3" lift.

31x10.5x15 Wranglers, (or any other this size) are 30.5"
Rubbing, fender issues, etc, .8" of lift.

So, for .5" theres a bit of work to be done... i would lvoe to have that .5" inch.... but.. not sure. Ill still have my uncle look for me a set of 31s, see what a set will do for me, then go from there.

But orst case, torsion/shackle and 30s, would give me almost 2" of lift. which doesnt seem too bad..

would 1.5" be too much on a torsion lift?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:08 pm

Depends if, you have the room on the bolts and they don't bottom out.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:31 pm

ill just have to check it out.

I WANT 31s! or. 30.5... thats a whole nother' half inch of lift vs "30s".

Ill have to make it work.... Get some 31's from my uncle, used, and see what they do.

that measureing your tire up on a curb thing.... can i do it with a stock truck to get an idea of what i can do with it, or does it have to be after a lift?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:42 pm

fallvitals wrote:...that measureing you tire up on a curb thing.... can i do it with a stock truck to get an idea of what i can do with it, or does it have to be after a lift?

It will tell you lots about what tires, lift, and wheels will do in your particular case.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:52 pm

alrighty, last dumb question, for now, you said a good high curb. So not any curb will work? lol. do you say that so you will get a little 'flex' going on to push the tire up in there to see what you have?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:03 pm

Around here we have curbs that are a soft roll of less than 3". That is not going to do it. You need to find a nice tall eight inch or better curb.
If you have an automotive ramp, that might work, but you need to be able to turn the tire to where it is closest to the back side of the fender.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:47 pm

hm hm hm. we have ramps, but you not gonna be turning the wheels when your on the ramp. Ill just have to pay attention to what i can ride up on and test this, lol.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:56 pm

Turn the wheel to where it is closest. Jack it up in the air. Place the ramp under the tire and lower it on the ramp. Jounce it a few times and take your measurement.

Or, watch for a good curb to set a wheel on

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:00 pm

ill have to watch for a good curb, we dont have any jack that will lift my truck enough to put our ramp under it. Best our crappy craftsman floor jack will do is geting the tire about 1.5" off the ground.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:28 pm

HenryJ wrote:................If you have an automotive ramp, that might work, but you need to be able to turn the tire to where it is closest to the back side of the fender.

He is talking about the distance between the tire and and the rear of your of your outside sheet metal at the rear of your tire not the frame. Getting the wheel/tire combo up on an 8" curb with the wheel turned into curb is where you will have rubbung with the outside sheet metal.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:46 pm

your pictures are cute little red x's! Oh nO!

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:53 pm

so, im measureing the very back of the fender well in the area where it meets the frame, but not the frame?

So since my current tires are 28.9, 31s will be 30.5, thats .8" wider (not overall) so, when i test thise i should (hopefully) have 1.25" or better? or ill have problems? or what kind of spacing will be too little?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:00 pm

fallvitals wrote:so, im measureing the very back of the fender well in the area where it meets the frame, but not the frame?

No. You are measuring where your tire comes closest to the fender.

You will find this to be the corner of the tire at the rear of the fender. As pictured in Reeds first photo.

Here is a good example shown on Hobie's truck with 31" tires:

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:17 pm

ohhhh. So, if its gonna rub the outside of the fender liek pictured, its gonna run the corners on the inside, right?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:58 pm

fallvitals wrote:ohhhh. So, if its gonna rub the outside of the fender liek pictured, its gonna run the corners on the inside, right?

No. That is where the problem lies.
Rubbing the frame is not really an issue. Cutting the tire and mangling the fender could be a problem.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:11 pm

fallvitals wrote:ohhhh. So,................

You do realize that you are wearing us down to bare threads? Perform a couple or searches and PM me the search criteria. Perhaps I can can help you with the searches. When it is somewhat perfected, we will post it for suggestions.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:16 am

thanks for all the help, f9k9, didnt mean to step on toes, have done a bit of reading here, some threads multiple times, and many book marked, I just have a hard time getting an image in my head from reading, if i see it, or do it, then I have it perfected. Ill make sure use the search first, which I generally always do. But the search here leaves much to be desired. Many results I get dont even have the search criteria I entered, which makes it hard on some subjects.

gonna edit to add, I found exactly what I want my truck to turn out like in the end,

Member, BobbleSmitty's old Crew Cab, that one has a 2" body lift, 30x9.5 tires, 2" rear shakle lift (he said he would do a 1.5" if he had to do it again), no TB crank, and 1.25" rear spacers. Plus Westin safari bar.

thats exactly what i want my (black also) crew cab to resemble when done. That truck looks like it rides a good bit higher then what I thought a 2" bl, shackles, no tb, on 30s would. gonna try the 31s, but not going to mod any thing if they wont fit ill go with 30s. but still do a TB crank. Looks like it would be a nice offroading machine.

PLus a TB crank will raise that front just a hair more.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:12 am

Sometimes senior citizens just get cranky and hateful. My bad!

Yep, his truck was about perfect. Just needed the nerf bars raised to match his BL. It was a major PITA to reroute the parking brake cable.

Just be sure that you want to stop at 30 or 31" tires. You can save yourself allot of cash by going directly to 33s if, you think that you might one day.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:05 am

So you cant get the stock step up bars to raise? i searched for that couldnt find the answer, saw many threads about a aftermarket bar that was easily raised. ill look into the relocation of the brake cable, not sure thats about (actually i think i saw something about that in the BL guide). but very nice truck.

i would LOVE 33s. but, im not cutting that fender well, without a set of skidz flares, and im sure ill never get a set of those, nor justify spending that kind of money for flares.

OT, my factory fiberglass flares, a few of em are startnig to chip paint, i was thinking about taking em off and 'painted' the outside with a spray on bed liner type stuff. Sound like a good idea? can you do that to fiber glass?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:37 pm

The nerf bars can be raised. Drill new holes 2" higher on the supports. The hassle is the driver's side. You will need to notch the front support to get it to bolt up because the parking brake support is there. Then you need to disconnect the cable, drill holes in the four supports to run the parking brake cable through there.

Pic with nerf's raised after BL. All photos of the mod have been lost. The tires there are 30/9.50s.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:44 pm

Ah, doesn't sound too bad. Nice lookin' truck. Looks pretty similer in lift to BobbleSmitty's. Do you recall how much extra ground clearnace you got in the front when that was taken, and did you do a TB crank? (and for the heck of it, the rear also?)

It seems getting the back higher isnt a huge deal, its the front.

I would love a 2" lift in the back using shackles, or springs, I will only do a 1.5" shackle, cuase like BobbleSmitty said, he would have only done a 1.5" if he could do it again, handeling wasnt great on the interstate while changing lanes he said. But I wonder is a 2" spring kit would keep that from happening.. hmm,, search time. I just hate to get a spring kit thats 3X as much, lol, but you get what you pay for too.

YellowCrewCabber · Post by **YellowCrewCabber** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:00 pm

f9k9 wrote:The nerf bars can be raised. Drill new holes 2" higher on the supports.

Whoaaaa!! Wait ahold it. Maybe I've got this totally wrong.....but wouldn't drilling the holes higher in the brackets lower the bars????

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:14 pm

YellowCrewCabber wrote:
f9k9 wrote:The nerf bars can be raised. Drill new holes 2" higher on the supports.
Whoaaaa!! Wait ahold it. Maybe I've got this totally wrong.....but wouldn't drilling the holes higher in the brackets lower the bars????

You are on the ball! It is 2" lower and you will lose a few contact points when doing so. Once you take the stock nerf bars off you will discover how worthless they are. The stock nerf's feel about equal to the wgt of 12 12 OZ soda or beer cans empty.

They are a step and nothing else.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:42 pm

lol, im not sure why gm even put em on, other then looks and jack the price up. I dont plan on changing em.

Now im torn between shackles and a boise spring kit... i think ill go with the springs... but thats gonna cost as much as a body lift

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:08 pm

Some hindsight from when I revisited the Issue.

f9k9 wrote:.......Early on in '04 I did the TB crank and shackle thing. It is an extremely long story so, I will skip it. Eventually, I was pleased with the combination of the shackles and TB crank. 4 yrs later I have begun to notice the "rear end sag" that is common on ZR2 blazers.

I am thinking that our rear leaf springs are stock 2d or extended cab springs and not ones developed for the additional wgt that a CC puts on them. I do have the Helwig helper springs that are listed in the mod section. Cranking on them may help but, if, I was looking at this again...........I would look long and hard at the Boise spring packs.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Fri May 01, 2009 12:13 am

f9k9 wrote:Some hindsight from when I revisited the Issue.

f9k9 wrote:.......Early on in '04 I did the TB crank and shackle thing. It is an extremely long story so, I will skip it. Eventually, I was pleased with the combination of the shackles and TB crank. 4 yrs later I have begun to notice the "rear end sag" that is common on ZR2 blazers.

I am thinking that our rear leaf springs are stock 2d or extended cab springs and not ones developed for the additional wgt that a CC puts on them. I do have the Helwig helper springs that are listed in the mod section. Cranking on them may help but, if, I was looking at this again...........I would look long and hard at the Boise spring packs.

Yeah, I actually read that earlier that today and it really swayed my decision. I sent boise an e-mail asking for a price for the spring kit. and told em Brule sent me, and a link to the boise spring kit mod page.

Shackles just seem cheap. I really dont want a 'firmer' ride but, i think the boise spring kit will be much better in the long run, and give me more lift. I haul stuff, but never really a heavy load, and i generally only tow a jet ski, lol. But ya get what ya pay for.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri May 01, 2009 4:13 am

fallvitals wrote:.........Shackles just seem cheap. I really dont want a 'firmer' ride but, i think the boise spring kit will be much better in the long run, and give me more lift. I haul stuff, but never really a heavy load, and i generally only tow a jet ski, lol. But ya get what ya pay for.

I was also concerned about "flex" off road and that was one of the reasons I went with the shackles. After running trails with Brule I can testify, first hand, that there is no observable difference between the spring pack and shackles. He was hauling allot more wgt than I was with the 3 gas tanks and all of the expedition gear. No sag whatsoever!

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Fri May 01, 2009 9:38 am

Yet another reason to go with the springs, lol.

I started pricing shocks last night, and bilsteins, wow... $70 a pop... loked at pro comps but some folks said they werent as good, and ranchos? were suppose to be good. adding that to my list.

which I know what a bad shock can do for ya. In my old 2wd s-10, I was rear ending by a ricer on spring break. Dealership body shop did all the work, but the ride was awful. Which my old s-10 wasnt the extreme package,, i think it had the zq8 suspension? it set about 1-1/12" lower then the 2wd s10s. And that sucker had a pretty rough ride. Anyways, a shaft on one of the shocks in the rear was bent. I replaced em myself then turne it into the insruance and got refunded. Though I put cheap $20 shocks on it, it made a day and night differance. So, im sure good shocks are worth it, but wow.. $70 for bilsteins..

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri May 01, 2009 10:11 am

Read up on the Bilsteins a little. They are a lifetime shock. If you don't plan to keep it five years then a less expensive shock will suffice.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Fri May 01, 2009 10:53 am

HenryJ wrote:Read up on the Bilsteins a little. They are a lifetime shock. If you don't plan to keep it five years then a less expensive shock will suffice.

hm hm hm. Well, unless im in in bad accident or soemthing (knock on wood, i dont drive crazy), I will have it for a loong time.

I got my first truck my old s-10 in 2002. had it till 2 months ago. had 64K on it when I bought it, traded it at 115K cuase of tranny issues. Only reason i got rid of it. So, this truck will be around for a long time. So,, you make a good point... Might just have to get a set for the front, then for the rear later, or vice versa. but all the lifting will be done first.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Fri May 01, 2009 1:32 pm

Saw my uncle today. told him i might have to go with 30s cause of clearnace issues with the fender becuase of the wider tire, and me not wanting to cut the fender. Looking at it, he seems to think i could put 31s in it as is right now.

But hes gonna save me a junk set of 31s when a set comes in so we can mount em up and see what it does.

And Boise springworks e-maile dme back, $240 shipped with tax for the spring kit! ouch! but, itll be worth it, i hope

I should have that ordered by the end of the month. And the body lift kit sometime in june or early july.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri May 01, 2009 1:45 pm

Plan on a front end alignment. You will be adjusting your torsion bars so it doesn't look like a stink bug.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:12 pm

HenryJ wrote:Plan on a front end alignment. You will be adjusting your torsion bars so it doesn't look like a stink bug.

Already planned on it

I mentioned it to dad few days ago, I talked to him about my plans today, he asked why do I want to lift it. Valid question, but i think the answer is obvious. Even more so after my 'offroad' trip monday, and he was with me.

blaz · Post by **blaz** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:17 pm

fallvitals wrote: Looking at it, he seems to think i could put 31s in it as is right now.

I have an '05 blazer and I just put 31" tires on it. They rub where everyone is telling you they will rub. I am using stock rims and a slight T-bar crank. My body lift is ordered so all should be fine in a couple of weeks. If you want I can post pics but they will look the same. Everyone here knows what they are talking about (31's will definately rub if you go off road).

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:11 pm

blaz wrote:...........I have an '05 blazer and I just put 31" tires on it. They rub where everyone is telling you they will rub.........

I was gonna just let him reinvent our data base but, hopefully he will listen to you.

The 31s will rub with a body lift unless steering stops are modified and minor trimming is done on the rear of the fender well.

blaz. I think that you have the first non RPO ZR2 packaged '05 Blazer that I have heard of. I sure would like to see an '05 ZR2 2WD that GM allegedly made in '05.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:32 pm

fallvitals wrote:.......... Looking at it, he seems to think i could put 31s in it as is right now............

I was convinced I could squeeze them on too.

Once Brule spanks you four of fives times, you'll learn to just accept the advice.

YellowCrewCabber wrote:..........take a paper lunch sack, blow it up, now open the top and crush it with both hands. That is real close to what my oem shocks were like.

Pretty much sums up the OEM shocks. Luckily, I had just stepped out of a 7 yr old ZR2 (factory equipped with Bilstiens) and recognized how badly the CC handled.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:37 pm

f9k9 wrote:
YellowCrewCabber wrote:..........take a paper lunch sack, blow it up, now open the top and crush it with both hands. That is real close to what my oem shocks were like.
Pretty much sums up the OEM shocks. Luckily, I had just stepped out of a 7 yr old ZR2 (factory equipped with Bilstiens) and recognized how badly the CC handled.

Whoa, have to many pans in the fire. Forgive me.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat May 02, 2009 2:40 pm

Okay, to start with, once I got home I realized I did it wrong. Turned the wheel all the way over instead of the closest point to the fender well like stated above, doh!

But I had my girlfriend turn the wheel, and the spacing between the tire and fender looked equal at all points. The curb I put it one was 6 7/8" high. Thought it was higher. While doing this a guy hollered out if I need help

These tires are 28.9" acording to goodyear's site. from left to right, they were about 28.5", but a lot of the tread is worn off too. if 31s are 30.5, thats only 1" wider on each side. Which I think would clear as is right now.. there was about 1" space with the wheel turned hard between the frame and tire.. that will run im sure.. but,, with lift, I might be able to pull it off... but not holding my breath. Plus with the wider tires, ill need the spacers, then it will push the tire closer to the fender, but it looks like a ltitle trimming on the back would help.. just like you all said, lol

Like i siad, I screwed up. Turned the wheels too hard. Im gonna do it again later, and measure, but the distance was about the same as the wheel turned when it was straight.

blaz · Post by **blaz** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:46 pm

blaz. I think that you have the first non RPO ZR2 packaged '05 Blazer that I have heard of. I sure would like to see an '05 ZR2 2WD that GM allegedly made in '05.

In Canada they were blowing out the blazers made with left over parts for $18 000 canadian. I got one for that price. The blazer is a 5 speed with a cast iron front diff. and 8.5" rear diff. (life is good). I have yet to see a 2wd ZedR2 but if I do I will take pics.

I guess I will post up some pic of the tires rubbing.

I am hoping I will be OK after a 2" body lift, it will be close.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat May 02, 2009 4:33 pm

The pics would be helpful on the rubbing issue. I really need to get back over and visit ZedR2. It has been awhile since I have been there. Thanks for reminding me.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:20 pm

f9k9 wrote:Yep, his truck was about perfect. Just needed the nerf bars raised to match his BL. It was a major PITA to reroute the parking brake cable.

Actually, the stock nerf bars were raised two inches on it. If you check out my album, you will see pictures of both how I raised the step bars two inches and also how I modified the brackets for the Safari bar to raise it up two inches as well. Rerouting the parking brake really wasn't all that hard, you just need to drill holes in three of the brackets for the step bars.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:54 pm

BobbleSmitty wrote:
f9k9 wrote:Yep, his truck was about perfect. Just needed the nerf bars raised to match his BL. It was a major PITA to reroute the parking brake cable.
Actually, the stock nerf bars were raised two inches on it. If you check out my album, you will see pictures of both how I raised the step bars two inches and also how I modified the brackets for the Safari bar to raise it up two inches as well. Rerouting the parking brake really wasn't all that hard, you just need to drill holes in three of the brackets for the step bars.

I stand corrected. My bad.

It gave me grief is all I recall, now.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:46 pm

BobbleSmitty wrote:
f9k9 wrote:Yep, his truck was about perfect. Just needed the nerf bars raised to match his BL. It was a major PITA to reroute the parking brake cable.
Actually, the stock nerf bars were raised two inches on it. If you check out my album, you will see pictures of both how I raised the step bars two inches and also how I modified the brackets for the Safari bar to raise it up two inches as well. Rerouting the parking brake really wasn't all that hard, you just need to drill holes in three of the brackets for the step bars.

Took a few minutes to find your album, but I did. Lots of pictures to help me out. I wasn't sure you still posted here, but your Crew Cab was pretty badars. I want to fix mine up just like it. That Westin bar/light set up was pretty nice too. And painting the bow tie up front, im gonna do that too, lol. Hey, I have the same Alpine head unit that you had in yours! lol.

Do you recall just how much ground clearance you gained in the front and rear after it was all said and done?

Also, browsing member pages... I found Hobie's 31" before and after page. Never saw a link to it.

http://www.s-10crewcab.com/og1/members/ ... biebac.htm

Now, that makes putting 31s on look like not such a big deal. In his case, he apperantly had no frame rub, or too little to mention. (I probably wouldnt be so lucky), and triming the fender like he did doesn't look bad, and it looks like my flare ends where his cut starts, or if i had to cut the flare, it shoulntd be too bad.... but he also said he might go back to 30s..... So.... I got a while to think it over...

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:14 pm

I am glad that you found his link. He had already moved on when I arrived here but, he was one or the pioneers along with Brule. Sounds like fender trimming is not so offensive to you now.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:40 pm

f9k9 wrote:I am glad that you found his link. He had already moved on when I arrived here but, he was one or the pioneers along with Brule. Sounds like fender trimming is not so offensive to you now.

lol, not as much now. Infact its a lot 'prettier' then I had imagined. But, eye balling these two pictures:

30's on BobbleSmitty's, and 31s on Hobbies, im not seeing a noticable differance in ground clearance, sure the 31s look bigger, but for no noticable diferance it seems like a waste of money and modding for looks... (yeah i know theres hair differance, but I can't see it...)

But you never know.. lmao.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:38 am

fallvitals wrote:Do you recall just how much ground clearance you gained in the front and rear after it was all said and done?

The front, it would have been somewhere around 1.5" and the rear was probably 3.5"

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun May 03, 2009 9:47 am

BobbleSmitty wrote:
fallvitals wrote:Do you recall just how much ground clearance you gained in the front and rear after it was all said and done?
The front, it would have been somewhere around 1.5" and the rear was probably 3.5"

How did you get that much in the front without a TB crank? I dont think it would have been from the tires alone? since theres less then 1" diferance in the 235/75/15s and the actual size of 30" tires?

Another dumb question, did you somehow paint the bowtie on the grill, or did you buy a black bowtie to replace it with? I came across from black bowties last night on ebay, and it got me wondering.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:11 am

My stock tires were 235/70/15s which were even smaller than the 235/75s... that's where the extra half inch came from. The bowtie, I painted it with a spray paint called "Paint over Plastic" or "Paint for Plastic" something like that, then sprayed a clear coat over it. It detaches from the grill very easily. There's two little nuts that hold it in place.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:25 am

BobbleSmitty wrote:My stock tires were 235/70/15s which were even smaller than the 235/75s... that's where the extra half inch came from. The bowtie, I painted it with a spray paint called "Paint over Plastic" or "Paint for Plastic" something like that, then sprayed a clear coat over it. It detaches from the grill very easily. There's two little nuts that hold it in place.

Ohhhhh, huh, I thought stock on the ZR5 was the 235. I wasnt sure if the wranglers (pictured above) were stock size, but I kept reading about 235s on here, and thought that was it.

Did you like those Coopers pretty well? I had cooper tires on my old s-10. Im not sure what I think of em, could be wrong, but I dont think they have a warranty? But reguardless, I had a sidewall crack, on a tire I know for a fact was never ever rubbed. then I had new ones put on and one brand new tire wouldnt hold air preasure. There was no leaks, they sealed the whole tire aroud the rim, still had a slow air leak. But those Coopers you had on yours where a good lookin' tire, but BFG All Terrains dont look too bad either...

Thanks for the info on the bowtie, I had the grill off a few times, and never thought to look how it was attached. Never thought about it till last night thought. I might just get the solid black on from ebay, becuase my painting skills are.... lacking..

thanks for the info.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:33 am

The coopers never failed me! They were quiet and smooth for the type of tread on them. They were very good in the snow and mud. You can save some money painting it yourself, it took probably 10 minutes to do the entire job.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:50 am

My uncle said I should get BFG all terrains, I guess best bang for the buck. I like the thread on those Coopers a lot btter, the BFG all terrain's treads are,, to close together, seems like it would get rocks stuck in the thread a lot and start throwing them. PING PING PING, lol. Only downside im seeing to those Coopers... they are only 29.35" BFGs are 29.5" I need every little bit I can get! so... ill keep looking. It sucks cause I was really digging those Coopers....

Yeah ill just try painting it first, I think I have new can of clear coat spray in the garage.. and probably a lot of black spray paint as well... Hmmm.. i think I found my project for today... Then if it doesnt turn out right, ill jsut get that one off ebay.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:03 am

235/75-15 was the optional oversize offroad tire for our trucks. Mine rubbed a little when articulated with those on stock.

Larger tires are the only thing that will increase ground clearance on the rear axle. We have an inch better clearance than a ZR2 with the same size tires since our pumpkin is smaller. Mine with the 33" tires has 12.5 inches of clearance at the front skid plate and 10 inches clearance at the rear differential.

Adjusting to the maximum Z height , adding a 2" body lift and 31" tires , our trucks sit about an inch higher than a ZR2. The ZR2 does not have the rubbing problems since the frame is narrowed behind the front axle centerline and the front fenders are 1/2" larger. Actually the same after the ZR2 flares. Those with the ZR5 package lose some room with those flares.

Tire height is not the only deciding factor with the rubbing. Width , shoulder shape and wheel spacing play a big part too.

When checking for clearance, compress one side of the front and turn to the point where the tire is closest to the fender. For those that made the Skidz cuts this moves inward. For those that are uncut it is at the outer pinchweld.

Terrain and driving habits will be a large part of the equation. Not everyone is the same. You must choose what works for you and your area.

Availability of size and tread design may play a part in the size selection. Import (metric) cases tend to run smaller than domestic (standard) even though they may be sold as the same rated size.

The "T-bar crank" is nothing to be afraid of. I prefer to refer to it as "adjustment". The stock system has limiting factors. The adjusters will not go beyond the point they bottom in the crossmember. The adjusting bolts are just about long enough to do this when they bottom on the "porkchop". The front camber and caster can not be correctly set if the the bars are cranked too high since the upper a-arm is not long enough.
Everyone worries about the half shaft angles when there are limiting factors outside that. Yes ,the boots loosen and leak grease. They do that with no upward adjustment. Easily fixed with a worm style clamp.

Any modification made will affect something else. Lay the plans for the big picture and accept the compromises that will come with it.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Thats a heap load of great info as well Brule.

Well so far with mine, I have had no issues with my 235/75/15s rubbing. I just went outside and measured my ground clearnace,

At the front skid plate, 9.75"

Lowest part of the rear diff, 8.5"

I know the Boise SpringKit (im getting this month) will raise the frame clearance, but, nothing for the diff, only tires will, I understand that

Which unless your driving over some huge rocks or something, stradling em, something to that effect, it shouldnt be an issue.

Which, im in WV, so we have lots of hilly areas. Valleys with creeks. But reguardless of what tires I use, im not going to do any major stuff like in the member photos. Just, old logging roads, maybe some creeks, fields, hunting, etc.

With 30s and a TB crank, I figure I could get the ground clerance in the front to 11" and the rear to 8.8"

31s would be like, 11.5", 9.3"

33s arent an option, im not sure how the 4.3 does with em, but it just seems like too much tire for that engine. I have nothing to back it up, and even if I did, Skidz cant be found any more, and I wouldnt run those tires without flares.

The fender trimming doesnt seem to bad... but still have a while to think it over. If it wasnt for Hobie saying he might go back to 30s, I would be on board for 31s... But Brule, you did give me a good bit more info to think about...

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:31 pm

30's will go anywhere a 31 will take you.
Coopers are Ok, but soft and get half the life of a comparable BFG. Unfortunately the Coopers while cheaper, they are not usually half the price.

fallvitals · Post by **fallvitals** » Sun May 03, 2009 1:27 pm

HenryJ wrote:30's will go anywhere a 31 will take you.
Coopers are Ok, but soft and get half the life of a comparable BFG. Unfortunately the Coopers while cheaper, they are not usually half the price.

lol, that was pretty good.

My redneck (lol, just country) buddy was just over, (wish I was more country, lmao) I was out there starring at my fender, and flares, thinking. We started talking 30s vs 31s.. and trimming the fender well for 31s... he told me what he had to do for his old ZR2, his modding was in the front of the fender, but he noticed I didnt have that issue, I had more issue in the back, then i showed him where the cuts would be made. And hes not too afraid to mod any thing, but he was worried about screwing up the body, and just cutting the fender in general, as I am also. So, I think 30s it is.

So now I got a pretty good idea, and its starting with the Boise SpringWorks Kit later this month followed by a TB crank