Newbie with a ? about rough idle.

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:06 am

Hello to all. I am new to the board, but thanks to a friend he said I might be able to find an answer for my computer illiterate father on here. I have done some searching and have came up with several ideas, but I might be missing something, so I will as anyhow.

He has a 96 S-10, but it seems all the replacement parts thus far takes 97 parts. The insurance agency even lists it as a 97 due to the VIN#

For almost a year now he has had a noticble miss in the engine, and you can feel it even when sitting in the truck at a stop light or moving at a moderate speed etc... He is out of ideas and so am I.

It is a stock truck, and in the last year we have replaced the alternator, battery, plugs (I think with champion truck plugs or platinums), wires and checked all other related ignition componets visually. We have scrubbed his throttle body (might need to revisit that idea though), and ran Lucas injector cleaner a few times through it. There seem to be no noticble vaccum leaks, or disconnected wires, and I have not heard of him refer to any drastic changes in gas milage. I wonder though about the coil after reading some posts on here. But he only drives it about 15 miles a day everyday. It has about 140,000 miles on it and runs great other than this, and it seemed to come out of no where. He doesn't "tinker" with the truck, off road it, or modify it. It is just his normal everyday truck.

My buddy on here said something about SeaFoam, 1/3 down the brake boster hose and the rest in the tank, so I might try that. But I could sure use some advice.

Thanks in advance!

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:36 pm

Try a can of Sea-Foam first and see if that changes anything.

How old is the cap & rotor?

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed?

Are all 6 plugs gapped correctly?

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:48 pm

Injector cleaner to free up a sticking poppet?
Hows the fuel pressure?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:12 pm

killian96ss wrote:............How old is the cap & rotor?

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed?.........

Go carefully on checking the cap and rotor, Eric. I do not know for sure on his '96 but, later models have plastic distributors. The ears, where the cap screws into the distributor, will break if, you are not extremely careful. Remove all of the loctite on the screws before replacing a cap.

The fuel filter is a good suggestion and is probably long past due. It's located inside the driver's side frame forward of the tank. It's a cheap item to replace but, stay away from Fram. The big model changes on the 2nd gen S-10s were between '97 and '98. Probably more drastic than the '02 and '03 TJ changes.

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:41 am

10-4 Good People

! I talked to him to double check. He has not replaced the cap and rotor and has not replaced the fuel filter. That means that they are probably the originals, or at best still only been replaced once and WAY over due. So those two items along with another good TB cleaning and the sea foam idea, we will see where we get.

The fuel pressure seems to be fine, but I am only judging from what I know about engines over all and it doesnt seem to be a starvation situation. The plugs are not that old, just replaced in the last 2-3 months and they were double checked for for the correct gap.

He isn't too swift moving when it comes to worrying or trying to fix things, HENCE this has been going on a year almost

. But I will post up any progress.

In the mean time, if there are anyother ideas out there... keep them comming!

Thanks so much!

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:35 am

UPDATE!

Well we went ahead and tried to knock out all the suggestions I got here on the board since all the suggestions needed to be done anyhow with routine maintenance. So we:
*Ran Sea Foam thru it, 1/3 down the brake booster hose & rest in the tank. After that tank was gone, we did it again for good measure.
*replaced rotor and cap
*cleaned (again) the throttle body the best I could with it on the truck. Used a tooth brush also. I thought it was filthy, Dad didn't think so

... but it was basically all flat black.

*TRIED to replace the fuel filter, but didn't when he couldn't get the old one off. It is in a tight spot (he said, I didn't look at it) and the side of the filter the screws on he could not get off.... ANY SUGGESTIONS?

So far so good... He is reproting that the truck was getting better as he drove it and missing/stumbeling less and less. The last time I asked him he said it isn't doing it any more. We shall see if that continues or it comes back.

Thanks for your help people! and as always let me know if you think of anything else!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:11 am

I was afraid of that. Next step is line wrenches. The one on the filter is larger so, it goes on first. Over the fuel line and onto the filter. Then the second one goes on the line's hex nut. It will be smaller.

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:27 am

I MIGHT have a line wrench that large, but I am not sure. My guess is he will wait till it warms up of the next oil change to try it again. He sure doesn't move too fast at this sort of junk where as it would drive me crazy.

I bet he uses anti seize though when he gets the new one on!

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:36 am

UPDATE! Well as of 1-27-09 his truck is still having its issue. If you read above, it went away (seemingly) for a little while according to my father. But he told me the other night that it is still doing it and has been for a little while. As it stands right now the only thing that has been suggested that has NOT been done yet is the replacing of the fuel filter. And we still cannot get the old one off, but we have not tried in a while.

So that being said... WHO esle has any ideas?!?!

Although needed, I have this doubt in my gut that the fuel filter is the culprit.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:10 am

Eric,
Have you tried PB Blaster on the connection and the line wrenches? Only other thing that I can think of is to cut the bracket so, that the filter can turn as well. Have him soak the connection daily for a few days before hand. If, it breaks then he'll just have to replace a section of the fuel line. A filter 11 years old has got to be starving the engine to death. Another treatment of Sea Foam won't hurt it either. My wallyworld has it for a couple dollars cheaper than auto part stores here and hopefully the Frankfort one does too.

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:24 am

f9k9 wrote:Eric,
Have you tried PB Blaster on the connection and the line wrenches? Only other thing that I can think of is to cut the bracket so, that the filter can turn as well. Have him soak the connection daily for a few days before hand. If, it breaks then he'll just have to replace a section of the fuel line. A filter 11 years old has got to be starving the engine to death. Another treatment of Sea Foam won't hurt it either. My wallyworld has it for a couple dollars cheaper than auto part stores here and hopefully the Frankfort one does too.

Oh I agree that the filter needs to be replaced. I just don't know if it would solve all his problems. We have not worked on it anymore since it has gotten crappy outside. But he has the filter already, and that is what we are going to try when we can get to it. We have ran 2 bottles of sea foam through it and cleaned the throttle body the best possible withough removing it, and poured sea foam down the vaccume line off the PS booster.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:26 am

Try using a set of vice grips to "squish" the nut a little and loosen the bound threads. Do this on a couple sides at least and then try to get it back to round.

YellowCrewCabber · Post by **YellowCrewCabber** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:33 am

I just remembered something. The 98 Sonoma Ext. Cab I traded for the current CC had a recall on the spark plug wires.

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:48 am

YellowCrewCabber wrote:I just remembered something. The 98 Sonoma Ext. Cab I traded for the current CC had a recall on the spark plug wires.

Well, we just replaced those. Now he seems to think it all started after he did that. But I don't know... I think he is kind of full of it, but who knows. I know one thing, after doing it he is not in any hurry to try another set, apparently it is a PITA to replace those on that truck.

YellowCrewCabber · Post by **YellowCrewCabber** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:46 pm

SweetPee wrote:
YellowCrewCabber wrote:I just remembered something. The 98 Sonoma Ext. Cab I traded for the current CC had a recall on the spark plug wires.
Well, we just replaced those. Now he seems to think it all started after he did that. But I don't know... I think he is kind of full of it, but who knows. I know one thing, after doing it he is not in any hurry to try another set, apparently it is a PITA to replace those on that truck.

I have not changed the plug wires on mine but I know that the #3 and #6 spark plugs are no fun to replace and the wires are no fun to get off either but it can be done. If your problem started after changing the plug wires then there is a good chance two of them are on the wrong spark plugs but that would make it run pretty bad I would think. Maybe the metal clips in the spark plug boots are not completey seated on the plugs.

SweetPee · Post by **SweetPee** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:33 am

YellowCrewCabber wrote:
SweetPee wrote:
YellowCrewCabber wrote:I just remembered something. The 98 Sonoma Ext. Cab I traded for the current CC had a recall on the spark plug wires.
Well, we just replaced those. Now he seems to think it all started after he did that. But I don't know... I think he is kind of full of it, but who knows. I know one thing, after doing it he is not in any hurry to try another set, apparently it is a PITA to replace those on that truck.
I have not changed the plug wires on mine but I know that the #3 and #6 spark plugs are no fun to replace and the wires are no fun to get off either but it can be done. If your problem started after changing the plug wires then there is a good chance two of them are on the wrong spark plugs but that would make it run pretty bad I would think. Maybe the metal clips in the spark plug boots are not completey seated on the plugs.

Yea I thought of that, and I told him that idea, and he swears nothing is switched cause he did do them one at a time, and I think they were labled from the factory as well. But now the Idea about the boots not pushed on the plug all the way is another idea! We will just have to try again, but we have checked them once already, maybe twice. Best we can tell they are all seated correctly, but you know how that goes....

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm

Have him use some of this in the boots when he checks checks them.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

While you're checking the plug boots for secure connections and lubing them with dielectric grease you might also double check to make sure none of the plug insulators were cracked during installation. Not saying you did but in past wrenchin days in the dealership I have seen plugs inadvertently ruined that way. Champions seem to be especially prone to that kind of thing. Don't know why but noticed this problem on them by a 3-4 to 1 to all other brands. My .02 worth.