replace mass air flow ?

philippe · Post by **philippe** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:41 pm

i think to put a k-n filter and look to the mass air flow and it look restrictive.i tought to replace it but the after market is costy,i tought to put a larger one from a larger engine (use).couldit be a good idea and mabe the same thing for trotle body?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:53 pm

The MAF is okay stock. Just keep it clean using CRC MAF cleaner. I bought a used one and modified it. No added benefits and I removed it when I threw my first SES (service engine soon) light.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:35 pm

The stock MAF sensor works just fine and will never be a restriction point on a V6 unless you are over 400 hp, which is not likely.

Don't use the MAF sensor from a different engine because each one is calibrated specifically for the engine it was used on.

Like f9k9 said, just clean it with CRC MAF cleaner (don't use carb cleaner) and you will be good to go.

Steve

philippe · Post by **philippe** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:50 am

tanks for tips.what do you think about modifi the buterfly on trotle body.(change buterfly or remove the round thing bolted on it)?

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:38 am

Off topic:

philippe wrote:what do you think about modifi the buterfly on trotle body.(change buterfly or remove the round thing bolted on it)?

Throttle Blade Diffuser

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:32 pm

Lots of information on the infamous MAF. I've been dealing with the occasional SES for just about a year and from the OBDII code I knew it was related to the MAF. I've done a lot of research and since I use the K&N airfilter I cleaned the sensors knowing it is a delicate operation. I use electronic contact cleaner and a extra long q-tip. Good to know that it is an accepted way to maintain the MAF and save $360 bucks. I am getting the SES on and off again so I will clean it again tomorrow. I will report if it has an immediate result. Thanks for all the input on the aftermarket MAF and possible mods!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:23 pm

If you keep having MAF codes resetting you may have to replace it or, as an odd thought, perhaps your pre-cat is plugging up or your main cat. Restricted exhaust can cause funny codes in relation to MAF and EGR (if your truck is old enough to have EGR yet). Simply a case of not enough air flow out so not enough in for proper response by these systems.
BTW I just bought a reman Cardone MAF on Amazon.com for $92 and change no core and free shipping. Just FYI if you should need one.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:44 pm

FYI, My cat plugged to the point of severe detonation, overheating and would not accelerate above 50 mph. No codes set. Codes are primarily set for conditions in which the emissions standards may be compromised.

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:40 am

I originally thought I had a flow problem and replaced my muffler with a high flow. Still got the occasional SES. I cleaned the MAF and the problem went away for a while but eventually came back. The thought of replacing the Cat but at the tune of $500+ bucks made the SES a bearable issue. An exhaust flow problem would seriously effect my fuel mileage, right?

After I posted this problem the next morning the SES was off and has been for the last 3 days. That put a crimp in my plan to clean the MAF to see if the SES reset and stayed off on its own. As soon as it returns I will try. Unfortunately, I agree that I may need to replace tghe MAF. If only I weren't such a cheap buzzard!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:15 pm

Might be a good idea to do a re-read on codes if any stored in current or history on the pcm. You might be setting other codes and not know it if you don't have a scanner available to use.
Yes, Iwould think if either of the cats were plugging or any other exhaust obstruction you'd notice some mileage drop. How severe depends on how plugged. Also note what Brule said above. Exhaust restrictions can be odd affectors of other systems and at times not affect anything at all.

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:11 pm

I agree. That makes sense. Ive been tossing around the idea of getting a code reader/reset and just havent done it yet. I am having code problems with my wifes Subaru also so I guess it's time to get off the "pot." As previously stated I'm a cheap buzzard (Ok, so the wife controls the checkbook)

but I shop at Harbor Freight and they have one there for $35. That fits my budget and I figure since I wont use it professionally it should serve my needs (and keep me out of trouble with the wife since I just bought a brand new compound bow).

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:16 pm

Yeah, I bit off for a good reader about a couple years ago. Glad I did. Have used it lots since then. I control my own check book but wifey does get kinda antsy if I really start going nuts with it. How's the bow workin out for ya? Used to shoot an old recurve myself. (Back when I was younger, stronger, and steadier!) Used to be able to put six in a row in a 2" bullseye at 40yds.(No sights, just bow) Sometimes was pretty hard on fletchings though.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:26 pm

Rich K. wrote:... Ive been tossing around the idea of getting a code reader/reset and just havent done it yet....I shop at Harbor Freight and they have one there for $35. That fits my budget and I figure since I wont use it professionally it should serve my needs.

If you plan to spend a little more, look hard at the ScangaugeII That is a pretty good bang for the buck.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:38 pm

HenryJ wrote:If you plan to spend a little more, look hard at the ScangaugeII That is a pretty good bang for the buck.

I don't regret it. Originally I wanted to go the cheap way out as I always do and get the overhead console, couldn't find it so Scangauge it was. Amazing purchase!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:38 pm

Rich K. wrote: Ive been tossing around the idea of getting a code reader/reset and just havent done it yet. I am having code problems with my wifes Subaru also so I guess it's time to get off the "pot."

What Brule said about ScanguageII is true but if you need multi-vehicle flexibility you'll want to get a good hand-held reader. The one I bought for about $200.00 works on OBD-I, OBD-II, Ford, and Chrysler products as well. I think a pretty good "bang" for what I spent as well.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:50 pm

roadrunner wrote:What Brule said about ScanguageII is true but if you need multi-vehicle flexibility you'll want to get a good hand-held reader.

Scangauge works on all OBDII vehicles. For most that is at least 1996 and newer. I find there is little gain from older systems. Most OBD I do not require a scan tool to retrieve the codes.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 pm

HenryJ wrote:
roadrunner wrote:What Brule said about ScanguageII is true but if you need multi-vehicle flexibility you'll want to get a good hand-held reader.
Scangauge works on all OBDII vehicles. For most that is at least 1996 and newer. I find there is little gain from older systems. Most OBD I do not require a scan tool to retrieve the codes.

Glad to hear of your good fortune Brule! Unfortunately there are those of us who have older than 96 models still in service. I can tell you from experience It's much easier to plug in the scanner than it is to retrieve codes manually from these vehicles.

Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Scanguage intended to be "installed" in the vehicle. If so this kinda slows down the convenience compared to a hand-held unit when going from vehicle to vehicle as indicated by the CC and Subaru mentioned in the previous posts.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:58 pm

Well you can "install" it and leave it but its simply plugged into the obd port and velcroed to the dash or however you would like to keep it secure. Personally I used velcro for ease of removal and installation for other vehicles.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:12 pm

Actually it is quite easy to move from vehicle to vehicle. Is comes with velcro mounting, attaches no differently than any scan tool, in that it just plugs into the OBDII port. Smaller than most scan tools and has many more features than a comparably priced unit.
It could be said that it is better in that you actually have it with you, whereas the scan tool spends most of its time in the garage. I have popped mine out several times to read a code on someone else's vehicle. I throw it in the wifes car for a trip too.
I really don't think I would ever pack the scan tool on a trip. Being able to monitor trans temperatures, alternator voltage, throttle position, mileage, engine temperature, intake temperature, etc. can be as valuable as reading a code.

I find little need for OBDI readers anymore. Sure once in a great while you need to scan a code, but they are not nearly as valuable as the range monitored by OBDII. If I do need to retrieve them a paper clip will do for GM and a few flicks of the ignition for Chrysler. Ever disassemble one of those cheap OBDI "scanners"? I did, well not exactly intentionally. One of my "helpers" broke it. Guess what was inside. Mostly air. I paid for a piece of plastic to house a piece of metal that connects the ground to the pin to flash the codes on the dash light. Basically a $24.95 paper clip with a handle.
I do know how many use OBDI, believe me. I still have nearly half the fleet older than 1996. While I do use the OBDII reader very frequently, I may only use the OBDI rear maybe once a year, if that. I have an Auto Xray at work that will read anything.
Keep in mind that codes are primarily for emissions monitoring. Setting a code is telling you that "you are polluting". Don't get all excited. It is not a "engine failure imminent indicator".

I am not saying that Scangauge is the answer to all evils. It is a nice tool with more functions and a good bang for the buck with its versatility. The $35 "Wallyworld" scan tool may do all you need too. I can not fault someone for going that way if it gets the job done.

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:22 pm

I knew it wouldn't take much to twist my arm. I'm not that sold on buying the cheaper "wallyworld" model but really haven't done the research on what is available for a reasonable price. Once I start doing that I usually end up spending more than I originally planned but I do get more for the money.

I like the way you put "best bang for the buck." I will check into the ScanguageII. I like the option to have it velcro in place and plugged in to the port. I assume this means I can see the reading as it happens even on the road?

My biggest concern for now is to know what codes are set so I can get neccessary maintenance done and to get rid of that annoying SES light. Both my vehicles use the OBDII and for now I'm not concerned with backward compatability. Thanks for the suggestion!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:51 am

HenryJ wrote:I do know how many use OBDI, believe me. I still have nearly half the fleet older than 1996. While I do use the OBDII reader very frequently, I may only use the OBDI rear maybe once a year, if that. I have an Auto Xray at work that will read anything.
Keep in mind that codes are primarily for emissions monitoring. Setting a code is telling you that "you are polluting". Don't get all excited. It is not a "engine failure imminent indicator.

I too have the Auto Xray scanner and all 4 cables to hook to everything. It came in a nice hard case and I do carry it with me. True not all codes are "imminent failure" in nature but some of them can have a real negative impact on fuel economy. The last thing I need in my particular circumstances is to be forced to finish out a 100+ mile trip getting reduced mileage/performance when all I have to do is plug in the reader and clear the code. BTW when out in the CC I leave the cable plugged into the port and only have to plug into the scanner to perform any needed diagnostics.
On a side note I've never liked shorting or jumpering anything together or to ground on any computer system. While it is supposed to work that way I've just never been comfortable with it. Additionally it is very handy to have what the codes are related to or indicate in the scanner thus eliminating the need to have the "book" of codes present at the time diagnostics are run. Plus it's a lot easier to look at the scanner than it is to count blinks etc. JMO

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:27 pm

Rich K. wrote:I like the way you put "best bang for the buck." I will check into the ScanguageII. I like the option to have it velcro in place and plugged in to the port. I assume this means I can see the reading as it happens even on the road?

You can. I had a MIL light up. I touched the buttom to change modes and pushed scan. The code is read and shown. I take note of it or recognize the code. Then I touch the button to clear it. All this is easily done on the road. It would probably be a very good idea to pull to the side to do this as is appropriate with any distraction.

It does not read out plain english. If you don't know the code , you will need to research it. This site as well as many others will offer answers.

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:44 am

I checked out the ScanguageII on the web and it really seems like a practical option. I like the fact you can use it for more than just a code reader. The ads I've seen so far indicate a cost of $159. Does this sound reasonable?

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:00 pm

It's been a while since my last post but I promised a follow up on my original problem with an occasional SES for a MAF failure.

I used some electrical contact cleaner, some long Q-tips, and a pipe cleaner. I've cleaned the sensors before with just the Q-tips and the problem returned eventually. This time I bent the pipe cleaner to gently clean the intake side more completely. I got a lot of grime from the other side and now I've gone almost 4 months without an SES. Sweet! It just takes a gentle touch!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:42 pm

Thanks for the follow up! So many times the OP never posts the results and that makes members performing a search with similar problems come up empty handed.

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:19 pm

I enjoy this forum especially because of the wisdom I have gained from the insight of all those who have posted before me. I am glad that I can at least share a small snippet of experience.

By the way, I like your new Avatar image!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:55 pm

Rich K. wrote:.............By the way, I like your new Avatar image!

Thanks!! That is Brule spotting me. Well, I think he was spotting me but, in hindsight, I think he had ulterior motives. That winch made him cautious which was logical. He just sent the dummy from KY down first.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:21 am

f9k9 wrote:The MAF is okay stock....

Anybody ever try the Granatelli Motor Sports Mass Airflow Sensors?
( http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku )

Here's their overview...is this false advertising?

" Get 47 percent more airflow than stock!
Granatelli Motor Sports offers these innovative mass airflow sensors as an upgrade for your stock one. The sensors feature state-of-the-art hybrid electronics, which provide improved ignition and injector timing control that results in a 10-15 hp gain at the rear tires. They're easy to install, and they're housed in a rugged, injection-molded body to reduce heat soak, which is a common problem with stock metal sensors. "

BikerBoomer · Post by **BikerBoomer** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:53 am

only way it can flow that much more is if your engine pulls that much more, which doesnt change when you change your maf.

There is no point to changing out your maf, only if you are flowing more air than it can read, like if you have a super or turbo charger, where the amount of air going into the engine will increase dramatically.

Idk what the stock gm maf is good for CFM wise, but i do know its very good, because all the import guys buy old used gm ones as upgrades because they can read more CFM than the stock ones (mitsubishi ecplise and eagle talon guys use it as a common upgrade)

Anybody know the range for for max CFM of the stock maf? most likely its WAY over what an NA motor will ever see.

If your using an aftermarket Engine Control i could see the timing increase, but not on a stock system. There claims are rediculous, really they can be ok legally, but in reality, take all that crap and throw it in the trash. Unless your engine plans on seeing boost, no need to upgrade maf.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:11 am

I agree with BikerBoomer. Little to no gains seen, I don't know either what our MAF is rated for but if it is similar to the one used on v8s I wouldn't worry at all. You won't exceed it with the amount of air you can pull with a nearly stock 4.3

BikerBoomer · Post by **BikerBoomer** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:30 am

green02crew wrote:I agree with BikerBoomer. Little to no gains seen, I don't know either what our MAF is rated for but if it is similar to the one used on v8s I wouldn't worry at all. You won't exceed it with the amount of air you can pull with a nearly stock 4.3

I do belive gm mafs are classified by there size 3'', 2.5'' and so on, (btw my stock air box and maf looks to be brand new, with upc codes on them kinda makes me think it used to be modded)

I gotta go look, my truck is back at home, and im off at college for the next week, then im off!

Looking it up, looks like its not from the v8s

Our MAF is the same as the MAF from all the following cars-
BUICK
CENTURY CUSTOM (1997 - 2004)
CENTURY LIMITED (1997 - 2003)
REGAL CUSTOM (1994 - 1996)
RENDEZVOUS (2002 - 2004)
ROADMASTER (1994 - 1996)
ROADMASTER ESTATE (1994 - 1995)
ROADMASTER LIMITED (1994 - 1996)
ROADMASTER LIMITED WAGON 1996
SKYLARK 1998
SKYLARK CUSTOM (1996 - 1997)
SKYLARK GRAN SPORT (1996 - 1997)
SKYLARK LIMITED (1996 - 1997)

CADILLAC
FLEETWOOD (1994 - 1996)
FLEETWOOD BROUGHAM (1994 - 1996)

CHEVROLET
ASTRO (1996 - 2004)
BERETTA 1996
BERETTA Z26 1996
BLAZER (1996 - 2004)
BLAZER TRAILBLAZER (1999 - 2001)
CAPRICE 1994
CAPRICE CLASSIC (1995 - 1996)
CORSICA 1996
IMPALA (2000 - 2005)
IMPALA SS (1994 - 1996)
LUMINA APV 1996
MALIBU (1997 - 2003)
MALIBU LS (1997 - 2003)
MONTE CARLO 1999
MONTE CARLO LS (1995 - 2005)
MONTE CARLO Z34 (1995 - 1997)
S10 PICKUP (1996 - 2004)
VENTURE (1997 - 2004)

GMC
JIMMY (1996 - 2001)
JIMMY ENVOY (1998 - 2001)
JIMMY SLS (2002 - 2004)
SAFARI (1998 - 2004)
SAFARI XT (1996 - 1997)
SONOMA (1996 - 2004)

ISUZU
HOMBRE (1997 - 2000)

OLDSMOBILE
ACHIEVA (1996 - 1998)
ACHIEVA SC (1996 - 1997)
ACHIEVA SL (1996 - 1997)
ALERO (1999 - 2004)
BRAVADA (1996 - 2001)
CUTLASS (1997 - 1999)
CUTLASS GLS 1997
CUTLASS SUPREME (1994 - 1997)
CUTLASS SUPREME S 1994
CUTLASS SUPREME SL (1995 - 1997)
INTRIGUE (1999 - 2002)
SILHOUETTE (1996 - 2004)

PONTIAC
AZTEK (2001 - 2004)
AZTEK GT 2001
AZTEK RALLY 2004
GRAND AM (1999 - 2004)
GRAND AM GT (1996 - 1998)
GRAND AM SE (1996 - 1998)
GRAND PRIX (1998 - 2001)
GRAND PRIX GT (1995 - 1996)
GRAND PRIX GTP (1995 - 1996)
GRAND PRIX SE (1994 - 1998)
MONTANA (1999 - 2004)
TRANS SPORT (1996 - 1998)
TRANS SPORT MONTANA 1998

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:36 am

There are quite a few V8s on your list.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:14 am

If you bought your rig from a dealership they probably replaced a K&N type filter with stock parts, since the K&N kit seems to be becoming a notorious problem with breaking in our rigs. I know my dealership does not like the aftermarket air cleaner on mine and they even wrote that it might need to be put back to stock to get rid of misfire codes they were getting with the new engine. I removed the MAF screen on mine and it did increase flow slightly but at the risk of contaminating the sensors. I would not bother with the aftermarket unit, too expensive for little to no effect.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:24 am

Rockrz wrote:Anybody ever try the Granatelli Motor Sports Mass Airflow Sensors?

Yes.

MAF Sensors

Rich K. · Post by **Rich K.** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:08 am

Continuing to follow up on this subject. Been almost a year since I last cleaned the MAF and still no SES.

Installing a 2" BL now and the air intake mod. I am excited to see how this pans out.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:46 am

Just to clear up something I just read, the screen on the factory MAF sensor is only for straightening the airflow before it gets to the 3 sensors to provide a more accurate reading.
If you have a high flow air filter like a K&N, or AEM you do not need an MAF screen because these filters almost eliminate the air turbulence you get with the factory paper filters.
The MAF screen has nothing to do with keeping the sensors clean.

As far as aftermarket MAF sensors like the Granatelli, they are junk, don't waste your money.

Steve

S-10CREWCAB.NET

replace mass air flow ?

replace mass air flow ?

MAF SES