my new "Wait4me Performance" PCM...

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:12 am

2kwik4u wrote:There are no means to "sample fuel" on the engine with a sensor. The only sampling it does is with the knock sensor.

This is what we are referring to, not a fuel sample sensor.

Sorry for the confusion.

I personally don't want my truck knocking all the time so I'd much prefer to have a good accurate base tune, and live without that.

This is kind of the point I was trying to make about the "Wait 4 Me" tune and that it would be better to have set fuel and timing maps (base tune) based on a specific octane instead of relying on the PCM to advance timing to get spark knock and then retarding appropriately every 6 miles.

Steve

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:38 am

That every 6 miles thing is a serious misnomer IMO. You can watch realtime data with an scan tool, and see how the integrators, fuel trims, and ignition weighting are being applied. The fuel trims even have a long term, and short term multiplier.

At any rate, a base map is IMO a better way to tune the engine.

With that said there is some performance to be gained by running on the edge, and with a mail order tune it's an easy way to make sure that you are getting the most from the available fuel.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:05 am

when I say fuel sampling, Im talking about just what you said, advance timing till you sense knock, and back it off to a safe level. plain and simple. I dont think Jesse is running my truck unsafe. Ive hooked up to almost 6500 lbs since then and had the AC on the whole time, and the truck sounded perfect...if that isnt a test, I dont know what is.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:56 pm

Audible knock is severe knock. You usually can't hear it until the motor is pulling between 10 and 14 degrees of timing out. Some people can't hear it at all I've been told, I'm one of those people.

I don't think it's unsafe, however I think there are better solutions to tuning. They typically cost more as well, so it's just like anything else in the automotive world. You get what you pay for.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:30 pm

Well, I received the new PCM today. The old one must have been faulty or programmed incorrectly because the new one works like it should!! It definately feels great and there is a noticable difference. It shifts at a higher point, kicks down at a higher point, goes faster, takes off faster, shifts firmer. It doesn't jerk me back violently which is what I had asked for b/c I didn't want to damage anything. Can't really complain about it at all. It's worked very well so far! My spedometer is now corrected also! But altogether, it feels like a pretty good tune. I hope the gas mileage improves like he says it will! I'll be keeping an eye on it the next few fillups and I'll let you all know.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:54 pm

I sent them an email to see if they would refund the shipping cost that I incurred for shipping back the PCM the first time because either it was a faulty unit or was programmed incorrectly. I will let you know what they say.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:28 am

well, i just made my trip back to school from home...I had cab load of stuff, and a bed load as well, not heavy, but had stuff. Ive got 30" tires, and I drove 90% interstate, doing 80 mph the whole way. I also have 3.42 gears stock. The verdict:

21.72 mpg

border man · Post by **border man** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:02 pm

Sorry to burst your bubble....

I'm stock with 30 inch tires and 99,000 miles. Popped in a new K&N filter, fuel filter and some fuel cleaner, and averaged 21.7 MPG two weeks ago on a camping trip to the Grand Canyon. I was fully loaded with camping gear, 2 kids, and 2 large coolers on a hitch carrier. I'm still running the stock plugs and wires too (still got cloes to 1,000 miles left on my OEM ones according to GM

). The mileage was verified with GPS and the odometer.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:47 pm

I managed 21.8 mpg "once" in the CC on a long trip through the Sierra Nevada mountains on my way to Mono Lake.

This was fully loaded traveling about 650 miles round trip with an elevation change of 9000 feet.

My combined city/hwy average in the CC was about 17 mpg, and my ZR2 gets about 18 mpg city/hwy.

Steve

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:54 am

my latest tankful has netted a rather impressive 18.2 mpg.
a new best for my truck... previous in-town best was 16.9.

my CC once averaged over 23 mpg on an interstate trip.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:45 pm

border man wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble....

I'm stock with 30 inch tires and 99,000 miles. Popped in a new K&N filter, fuel filter and some fuel cleaner, and averaged 21.7 MPG two weeks ago on a camping trip to the Grand Canyon. I was fully loaded with camping gear, 2 kids, and 2 large coolers on a hitch carrier. I'm still running the stock plugs and wires too (still got cloes to 1,000 miles left on my OEM ones according to GM ). The mileage was verified with GPS and the odometer.

uhh your not bursting my bubble

im getting WAY better gas mileage, that means I am saving money in MY truck. If my truck got 83mpg stock, then i might be pissed, but I am saving money

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:14 pm

purduecrew wrote:im getting WAY better gas mileage, that means I am saving money in MY truck.

That's all that really matters.

For such a minimal cost for the tuning it shouldn't be long before it pays for itself.

Steve

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:13 pm

my initial calcs said 7-10 tanks, or a month for me

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:01 am

purduecrew wrote:my initial calcs said 7-10 tanks, or a month for me

Pretty good investment.

Imagine how much it will save you in 1 year.

Steve

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:12 pm

Well, just a little follow up here. There's good and bad things to say. First the good: The PCM works great (on his second try at programming it) and I averaged a little over 18 MPG with about 60% freeway (60 and 65 MPH), 20% (45MPH), and 20% in (25 - 30 MPH). Looking back at my records of my trip to TN when I averaged 19 MPG all highway with stock 235/70 tires, I would say there is a definate improvement on gas mileage. The shifts feel nice and solid. I have yet to see if the top speed limiter is removed

But the bad, if you remember how I had posted that the first PCM I recieved was programmed incorrectly and I had RPMs of 2500 at idle, I had to send the unit back. I e-mailed them after recieving the second unit and asked for my shipping cost back because obviously the PCM or programming was at fault, not my truck. I have sent the email twice over the past week and a half and have not recieved a response yet. Looks like they are ignoring it if you ask me. It was only $7.95 to send it back, but its not the money that matters, its the fact that if they boast 100% customer satisfaction, they should act upon their statements and address the issue. I'll say the the 2nd PCM I got is good but their customer service is another issue!

24digger · Post by **24digger** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:13 pm

Any more updates on these?

I'm thinking about getting one.

Does he have his own tunning or do you have to tell him excatly what you want?

What kind of tunning did you guys get?

BobbleSmitty did you ever get your shipping refunded?

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:00 pm

No on the shipping refunded... and I have come to find that he made my tire size bigger to make it look like I was getting better MPGs except instead I was just getting more miles on my truck that it wasn't really going. I need to send it back and have the tire size retuned. I have since switched back to the stock PCM (around October or November) and have just been lazy about sending the unit back lately.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:17 pm

BobbleSmitty wrote:...I have come to find that he made my tire size ... look like I was getting better MPGs except instead I was just getting more miles on my truck that it wasn't really going.

JEEZ! I had not even thought about someone doing that just to show a mileage improvement.

You really could be devious and boast big performance and mileage gains with shady programming like that.
That really opens my eyes to something I had not even considered.
Thanks for the heads up.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:26 pm

Sure giving me pause to reconsider!

I had been leaning toward the W4M pcm due to price and other concerns instead of the HPP III. I thought perhaps

since my "normal" driving consists of about one stop per mile and numerous 10-20mph slow-down turns etc I was considering the torque management limiting as a possible great plus. My thought was that as much shifting as my trans is doing I am probably running a great deal of the time with retarded timing and this mod might lead to greater fuel economy for me.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:59 pm

I think it does have potential, but don't expect big gains with out other modifications. Reprogramming a stock truck is not the answer to gains in both performance and mileage. Reprogramming to take advantage of modifications is.
I am not saying the improvements to the transmission are of no value. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that will add mileage or much for performance.
Think of the value for the dollar spent. How long will it take to recoup the investment? Will it increase the lifespan and pay out that way?
Lots of considerations.

One thing I do not like about this is that the changes are out of my control. Who really knows what they are programming? Kind of like the dog whistle. Until the dog winces, is it really doing anything but making me winded?

It may not offer all the a custom tune can, but there is something about having the control a hand held programmer offers.
I would love to have LS1 edit and make the changes myself. It is just not affordable yet. If I knew less, perhaps trusting another to make the changes would be the best choice. I will admit hearing the incorrect tire size was used worries me. How many other mistakes are made? Sure it can be sent back in, but that is an inconvenience. heck I don';t even like the inconvenience of reprogramming mine and I do not have to do more than plug in the box and punch some buttons.
Food for thought. No one answer is for everyone.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:05 pm

I admit that I too considered this seemingly easy and inexpensive mod! It didn't really grab me wholeheartedly, for some reason, that I couldn't readily explain to myself. I had considered investing in the LS1 edit program and to recoup some of my losses by offering edits to the local "slammed" S10s and Sonomas for a fee. Liability concerns and my lack of knowledge going into it killed that idea.

Electronics are here to stay! There is something to be said about mechanical tranny upgrades, such as the Corvette servos, that we shouldn't forget.

I have spent months researching what speedo gear to get for my Jeep to correct the differences from stock to 33s and then I wonder why. I have a dedicated GPS unit in the pos.

For those wondering what the connection between a PCMforless program, HPPIII and a speedo gear has in common is that the mechanical side of the heep is converted to electronics. The correct nylon gear will cost me under $20.

I don't even know what my original thought trend was

Oh yeah! PCMforless does not appear to be the easy way out.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:20 pm

HenryJ wrote:With a little knowledge anyone could do this if you have a copy of EFI Live. Sure would be nice to have that.

Anybody know where one might find the website for "EFI Live"???
Is this something you could run on your laptop, and plug in the service port under your dash to flash the ECM?

If it's a good program, I'd pay $750 for it...

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:42 pm

Rockrz wrote:
HenryJ wrote:With a little knowledge anyone could do this if you have a copy of EFI Live. Sure would be nice to have that.
Anybody know where one might find the website for "EFI Live"???
Is this something you could run on your laptop, and plug in the service port under your dash to flash the ECM?

If it's a good program, I'd pay $750 for it...

http://www.efilive.com/

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:46 pm

Well now you guys are all making me depressed! My wait4me just shipped out today... I guess I'll have it installed and test it out for a week to let everyone know how it went. I'll be sure to test it out for correct mileage using milemarkers and whatnot.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:54 pm

green02crew wrote:Well now you guys are all making me depressed! ......

Sorry, didn't mean to at all. We could have had a couple of members with fluke experiences. I would definitely let you know if, I "knew" you may have wasted money. I have seen many more positive reports in forums than negative ones.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:00 pm

f9k9 wrote:http://www.efilive.com/

Thanks...that just might be the toy I'm looking for to tweak my new low mileage, cream puff S10 truck....someday when I can find one that works for me

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:45 am

I'm curious how you found out that tire size was programmed wrong. Did you check it against a GPS unit, check it against another vehicle on the same route? Saying he did it just to show false gains is a pretty bold statement IMO without some sort of proof to back it up. I know if I had tuned someones truck and they came out and said I purposely skewed the data just to show false gains I'd be pretty PO'd about it.

EFILive, or HPTuners I think are the ideal solutions. Mail order tunes from reputable places (like W4M, PCM4Less, and Nelsons) are second best, and hand helds are OK if all you want to do is change tire size/limiters/shift points.

Keep an eye towards eBay. EFILive cables, and HPTuners setups show up there from time to time, usually in the ballpark price of a new HPP3 unit!

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:36 am

2kwik4u wrote:EFILive, or HPTuners I think are the ideal solutions

Anybody know where one might find the website for "HPTuners"???
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2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:11 am

www.hptuners.com

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:28 am

Mmmm...another tasty toy!

Thanks for the link.

BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:30 pm

I actually tested it against several things b/c I wasn't sure. What first made me think that it was wrong was that people kept passing me on the freeway and cutting me off way to often when I thought I was going the speed limit. Next, when I mapquested several places and kept to the map directions, I was several miles over what the maps said. I then drove next to several friends on the road on many occasions to see what their spedometers read compared to mine. I then used the GPS unit that my dad had to see what speed I was going. All of the tests showed that I was going slower than what the spedometer reads, which in turn makes the truck put more miles on the odometer. Don't get me wrong, I did ask him to set my tire size at the actual tire diameter (29.4 inches). But there is no way that that is the size it is set to, otherwise the spedometer would read the correct speed (or at least close to it).

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:10 am

Interesting.......I'd love to get ahold of that tune to see what was changed as compared to stock.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:25 am

I guess I'll be sure to test mine for correct tire sizes. I'm installing it today so I'll let you guys know. I'll prob take the highway and check milemarkers.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:38 am

green02crew wrote:I'll prob take the highway and check mile markers

More than likely, they'll still be there.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:08 pm

Haha yes they were still there and also I think they were in the right spots! Ok so the new pcm is installed and the tire size checks out. However I don't know what changes he made but am I supposed to notice a huge difference? It shifts just ever so slightly firmer and thats all I really notice. I'm going to call Jesse tomorrow and see just what he made for changes but so far it doesn't seem worth the cost to me unless the gas mileage improves by the suggested 1-2mpg.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:27 am

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green02crew wrote:I don't know what changes he made

Wow! Seems like part of the deal would be that the vendor lets the customer know exactly what they are purchasing.
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green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:48 am

He does let you know if you talk to him about it but I didn't ask for specifics just yet. He said they don't have a way of making a printout of all the changes and he makes on aver about 100 so thats a lot of handwriting per program.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:24 am

Isn't he using a program loaded onto a computer to make changes to your ECM? If so, there's got to be a way to run a print out.

I think it would be better to save up and get your own program to make your own changes so you're in control and know what's going on.

Plus, it's alot easier to experiment with different settings till you get it how you like it. To me, that's worth the price of admission right there.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:57 am

Yeah it would be nice but the cost of the software is a little out of my price range. Check it out online just search for a copy of EFI Live and see what it'll run you.

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:23 am

green02crew wrote:Yeah it would be nice but the cost of the software is a little out of my price range. Check it out online just search for a copy of EFI Live and see what it'll run you.

$800 ain't that bad considering you can play with the settings all you want till you're happy with it.

Plus, you can do additional vehicles for $99 per car...you could start a side gig programming for others...

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:19 am

Could but not what I'm looking for. For me the best choice was to have it done. Maybe its something you might want to look into?

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:46 am

There is a file comparison tool in both HPTuners, and EFILive. A screenshot or two of that will easily get you your "whats changed" printout. Not sure if that is the software he is using or not, however I would think any software worth it's salt would have that feature. Even the freeware I use for OBDI tuning has a bin compare feature.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:53 am

BTW, if you can get a copy of the changes to the transmission, I have a folder with screenshots of all the stock transmission parameters.

http://picasaweb.google.com/2kwik4u/S10ShiftTables

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:41 pm

Well I talked to him and he went over a few basics with me on what he changed. He was talking really fast and you could tell he was busy but basically he changed the max speed, tire size, shift points, max rpms, shift firmness, etc. Which was basically what I was looking for. It tests ok for me the only sad part is having to get the crankshaft sensor relearn done. Dealer quoted me 70$. I guess thats not too bad just annoying. Now what do I do with the stock pcm? Are they prone to failure so might it be needed as a spare?

Rockrz · Post by **Rockrz** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:13 pm

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green02crew wrote:Are they prone to failure so might it be needed as a spare?

I don't think they are prone to failure. My truck is a '96 model with 196,000+ miles on it, and it still has the original.
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BobbleSmitty · Post by **BobbleSmitty** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:17 pm

Keep it incase you want to change something on the programmed PCM. Otherwise, your truck will sit. Or like in my case, you may need to switch it back until you send the PCM back.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:38 pm

2kwik4u wrote: Even the freeware I use for OBDI tuning has a bin compare feature.

Now my curiosity has been "tweaked" again.

A little off topic but freeware??? for OBDI. I have an older vehicle besides my CC and am interested in this. Please elaborate if you would.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:22 pm

Good plan, I didn't think of in case I was sending it back for programming.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:08 am

roadrunner wrote:
2kwik4u wrote: Even the freeware I use for OBDI tuning has a bin compare feature.
Now my curiosity has been "tweaked" again. A little off topic but freeware??? for OBDI. I have an older vehicle besides my CC and am interested in this. Please elaborate if you would.

http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

$30 if you want to buy it. Great software, totally customizable for whatever chip you might be using.

www.moates.net <--lots of great tools (like chip emulators, and ALDL cables)

drperry · Post by **drperry** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:29 pm

I've been pretty happy with my hypertech... I originally bought it for the tire size feature...

I have no torque management... or at least I shouldn't, due to me having a 5 speed, lol.

With a Hypertech tune and stock everything else (235/75), my Blazer got 24MPG on the highway, mostly mild hills with a few bigger ones, at 70MPH the whole way...

I could squeak 18MPG out of it if I babied it in town...

With my 30s, brushguard and such, I can squeak 16.5 or so in city driving.

I wouldn't mind a HPTuners or EFILive setup... But neither of them support the '05 year of Blazer... I hate that stupid RPM holding feature, lol.

It'd be nice if you could still edit the PCM for tire/gear changes if you happen to run different tires for summer/winter...

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:18 pm

2kwik4u wrote:
roadrunner wrote:
2kwik4u wrote: Even the freeware I use for OBDI tuning has a bin compare feature.
Now my curiosity has been "tweaked" again. A little off topic but freeware??? for OBDI. I have an older vehicle besides my CC and am interested in this. Please elaborate if you would.
http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

$30 if you want to buy it. Great software, totally customizable for whatever chip you might be using.

www.moates.net <--lots of great tools (like chip emulators, and ALDL cables)

Hey man! Thanks for the info. Been wanting to tweak my 90 Buick 3.8. Need to hunt up original stock file for it as I had the ecu and prom replaced once an they flashed it prior to installation. Hasn't gotten nearly as good mileage ever since.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:48 pm

Well the more I drive with my wait4me the more I like it. The shifts are set up just right. It shifts quicker and doesn't bog down at all, almost as if its throwing forward then quick shift and picking right back up.

It holds a higher gear longer and doesn't downshift nearly as often when I step on it. And an odd thing since my gas gauge is messed up it now reads a full tank instead of an empty one with the light on. Gauge doesn't work anyways but just strange how it changes.

The only changes I was thinking I might want is tire size set slightly larger than whats actually on it. Sort of rounding up from actual diameter. This would let the truck shift earlier but falsely reporting more mileage on the truck but I figured if its just off by about .5" it would be about 5k miles every 100k. Not bad but would it help?

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:46 am

It's better to just change the shift points than to lie to it about tire size. W4M should be able to take of that for you. Thats the beauty of a self-owned tuning system, you can tweak, change, experiment, and learn fairly easily. So long as you change one thing at a time, and record your results you can learn very quickly what works and improves and what doesn't.

roadrunner:
Glad to help, You might want to check out code59.org. Some guys have re-written the $58 mask for the stock Sy/Ty PCM (1227749). The big help there for you would be the closed loop operation with input from a wideband O2 sensor. You can set the desired down around 15:1, or 15.5:1 under part throttle conditions, and improve your mileage a good deal. We've seen as much as 18-19mpg on the highway from trucks that are running in the low 12's with that setup!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:40 pm

2kwik4u wrote: roadrunner:
Glad to help, You might want to check out code59.org. Some guys have re-written the $58 mask for the stock Sy/Ty PCM (1227749). The big help there for you would be the closed loop operation with input from a wideband O2 sensor. You can set the desired down around 15:1, or 15.5:1 under part throttle conditions, and improve your mileage a good deal. We've seen as much as 18-19mpg on the highway from trucks that are running in the low 12's with that setup!

Thanks for the tip. Never ceases to amaze me how much good info and help from forum members on this site!

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:11 pm

BobbleSmitty wrote:I actually tested it against several things b/c I wasn't sure. What first made me think that it was wrong was that people kept passing me on the freeway and cutting me off way to often when I thought I was going the speed limit. Next, when I mapquested several places and kept to the map directions, I was several miles over what the maps said. I then drove next to several friends on the road on many occasions to see what their spedometers read compared to mine. I then used the GPS unit that my dad had to see what speed I was going. All of the tests showed that I was going slower than what the spedometer reads, which in turn makes the truck put more miles on the odometer. Don't get me wrong, I did ask him to set my tire size at the actual tire diameter (29.4 inches). But there is no way that that is the size it is set to, otherwise the spedometer would read the correct speed (or at least close to it).

dont forget that an incorrect axle ratio entry will cause speedo error too.

i can say that Jesse got mine right on the money... my speedo/odo are dead nuts consistent with interstate mile markers...

still quite pleased with my tune from W4M....

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:44 pm

Ok so the numbers don't lie. I went from 14mpg to 16mpg. That was 1/2 city 1/2 highway. It'll pay for itself in a year. The only downside was the crankshaft position sensor relearn from the dealer was 80$ for the diagnostics fee. Thats the problem when nobody has a good computer around here to hook it up to!

On a second note I am really annoyed that the windshield wipers move 5 times when you push the wash button. Anyway to make it go 3 times instead. I know I'm a little ocd about it. Is this something jesse could do at wait4me?

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:07 pm

green02crew wrote: I went from 14mpg to 16mpg. That was 1/2 city 1/2 highway. It'll pay for itself in a year.

Give it a little longer. I would rather see an average from three tanks of fuel , than three days driving.
Mine regularly averages 15.8 mpg. It can dip to 14 and hit over 17 in daily driving.
Keep track and lets see what your mileage is averaged on the next three tanks of fuel. Five hundred miles is a much better example.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:33 pm

I will be keeping a very close watch but my truck has been very consistent in mileage. I check it every tank and it is always in the 14s unless towing/hauling. Or strictly around city it will dip to 13s. I'm excited to see any difference in the positive and its easy to isolate since I haven't made any other changes other than a switch and light. He advertised 2mpg and I was expecting no more than 1 but we'll see if it changes at all as the miles add up.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:38 pm

Was your speedometer correct before? Mine was off 3% from the factory.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:45 pm

I had factored in for a slight change in mileage as the tires that were on it were a difference of .6 inches than factory. It very well may have been off but when I switched tire sizes it didn't change and the pcm was not upgraded for the correct size. As a general rule of thumb I would add about 12 miles at the end of the tank as I had traveled that much further. My math could have been off but I'm fairly sure it was accurate.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:57 am

HenryJ wrote:Was your speedometer correct before? Mine was off 3% from the factory.

Thats a significant amount for a factory speedometer to be off......or so I thought until recently. My '04 ZR5 was withing 1/2% as checked with AutoTap and GPS. My '03 Yukon is off ~4% checked the same way......It totally baffles me that GM allows that much tolerance in their speedometers!

I know I've argued in the past over this subject. Being an Mechanical Engineer by trade, and a car guy by hobby, having not seen it in person made me highly doubt it. My apologies.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:23 pm

So, green02crew, any further updates on mpg's.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:33 pm

I'll be honest I've gone about 300 miles since I have last updated

Saving on gas but not much fun. I beat on it through the last fill up and had it in 4 pretty much the whole time as things were snowy/icy so I haven't had much to judge as of yet. I did get 13mpg the last fill beating on it and in 4 so if that says anything? But either way I think it was a decent mod but no real seat of the pants anything. Toss up between HPP3 and wait4me. If you want to keep making changes or want a code reader HPP3 hands down, if you just want it done and aren't changing tire size or firmness of shifts or anything than wait4me is the economical choice.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:47 pm

13 in "beatin it 4" doesn't sound too bad. I've been doing a fair bit of looking around and on rpmoutlet.com website they have a tuner called the "predator". Looks like it does all HPP does and maybe a little more too. I may go that way. Might be a good spot for my "tax rebate".

Torskdoc · Post by **Torskdoc** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:28 pm

I just got mine in the mail today. Even tho I have the Hypertech, I wanted the Wait4me set up to maximize on tranny set up with servo's to tow, and get as much mileage as possible doing it. So I'm gonna be swapping it in and out as necessary for towing my 19ft travel trailer.

This is what i asked Jesse to change:

---------beginning of note---------------

Specs. 2002 Chev S-10 Crewcab
4.3L V-6 (Fed Emissions NO EGR)
4L60E
3.42 Gear Ratio with G-80

Mods:
Throttle Blade Restrictor removed
Airbox opened up
Corvette 2nd and 4th gear servo's.
Hypertech P III programmer set to 87 Octane trim, 100+ Rev Limiter, 100+ Shift points, 118mph top end, 75% Shift firmness.

No other mods anticipated.

I do tow a 2500# boat/trailer combo and a 4000# travel Trailer.

Would like to get top end limiter removed or raised to 130(no more than that)

RPM limiter 5500

Raise WOT Shift points btwn 100-200 rpm

Torque management reduced as much as possible

Partial throttle shifts made firmer if possible.

WOT Shifts quicker / firmer (no fan of slushbox shifts.)

All to run on 87 Octane.

-----end of note--------

Noted that the shifts were comparable to an old 67 Impala I had (350/thm400) They were firm, fast without banging and slipping. The TCC engaged faster (pwm) and stayed engaged longer, and with a lot more throttle (reminded me of driving a stick somewhat). I didn't feel as tho there was anchor dropping out when shifting.

Throttle response throughout the power band is immediate without bogging, hesitation, or flat spots. Even part throttle is improved.
Idle is smoother and lower (500 neutral / 450 in gear...approx 100rpm reduction). No change on TPS or idle stop.

With the TCC locked up @ 40, you can almost floor it and it will hold lockup in 4th. feels almost like @ 80-85% throttle before TCC will release. But the response is strong, and consistant.

And the best part was I didn't need to do a Crank re-learn. I think they got it right.

Gonna keep this one for towing and when I do long trips. The original with the hypertech will be used for local running and experimentation.
With Jesse doing free updates, this will be an ongoing project. (Getting max output and mpg with stock intake/exhaust and minor / cheap / reversible mods).

Larry

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:18 pm

Installed my wait4meperformance computer a few days ago. I asked Jesse to eliminate all or most of the torque management and described my intended useage of the truck. Stock tires and no mods done only anticipated was cat-back exhaust later. Little or no towing anticipated. I do a lot of stop and go driving below 50mph.
The results are great!
Shifts-firm and quick at or near red-line WOT.
Truck is much more responsive and accelerates better.
Fuel economy is hard to determine as attributable to computer only as I had a 30-50% plugged pre-cat which I repaired at the same time.
Speedo is within 2% of true. (Totally acceptable)
Had to do crank-position relearn as multiple misfire ses light kept coming on. Cost $25.00 locally.
Overall performance and driveability very good. Will really put you back in the seat now on heavy or wide open throttle acceleration.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:16 pm

roadrunner, after having the torque management cut so much do you notice any wheel spin at WOT between 1st and 2nd gear? Are the shifts any more harsh and did you also increase shift firmness? I have thought about having it reduced as well but am worried that it might add unnecessary stress to the transmission. Any thoughts?

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:37 pm

green02crew wrote:roadrunner, after having the torque management cut so much do you notice any wheel spin at WOT between 1st and 2nd gear? Are the shifts any more harsh and did you also increase shift firmness? I have thought about having it reduced as well but am worried that it might add unnecessary stress to the transmission. Any thoughts?

I generally don't drive "rough" enough to encounter much wheel-spin.(Yeah, I'm an old fart) I did do a little "gearheading" on initial install test drive and in 4wheel it will "scuff" the tires on 1-2 shift on gravel. In 2wheel it will spin them a fair amount. On pavement in 2wheel it will "chirp" on 1-2 shift and nothing in 4wheel.
Shifts aren't "harsh". Just quick and immediate. No more mushy-slidey shifting like stock. Shift firmness is definitely improved. (Keep in mind this tranny has only 10k since rebuild.) Given my tranny's current condition I was not concerned about increased stress. This is admittedly due in part to my driving habits and everyone is different. If you are running large diameter/wider tires I could see reason for concern particularly if your trans is on the "tired" side. Having been a former transmission tech myself I am quite comfortable and happy with my current level of performance both on shift feel and quality. Bear in mind this thought also. The main reason I had so much of the torque management removed from my computer is my driving situation. In 100+ miles of daily driving I am stopping about 150 times and slowing for corners at least 60 times. Given this I felt torque management was causing me to be driving the truck with retarded timing about 75% of the time. I did this primarily for mileage gains in this unique type of driving. Yours may be quite different and may need to be adjusted accordingly. Hope this answers your questions. If not ask away.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:08 pm

Yeah I'm not a big fan of the lag type feeling when it shifts but if it is for the transmissions own protection I will let it slide. I would like to be able to chirp a little on the 1-2 shift just for fun but not at the expense of a tranny. Maybe after I get my cooler installed I'll send the pcm back into w4me and see what a slight decrease would give me. Thanks!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun May 04, 2008 7:49 pm

green02crew wrote:Yeah I'm not a big fan of the lag type feeling when it shifts but if it is for the transmissions own protection I will let it slide. I would like to be able to chirp a little on the 1-2 shift just for fun but not at the expense of a tranny. Maybe after I get my cooler installed I'll send the pcm back into w4me and see what a slight decrease would give me. Thanks!

I did forget to mention I installed a 17,500 GVW cooler when I first bought the truck so I've already covered that base.
There are three main reasons for the "lag type feeling" in our transmissions. (1) torque management (reducing ignition timing via pcm during shifts) (2) built-in shift overlap (actually running in two gears at once) engineered that way for shift smoothness (3) sometimes lower than desired line pressure (also controlled by pcm) The first and last of these can be effictively changed and or improved via computer programming. The second one (while feeling better with control over the other two) can primarily be affected via installation of a good quality shift kit such as Trans-go etc. This will actually "refigure" the operation of the trans for less actual overlap of gears during shifts. I know others may disagree with some of what I've just said but so be it. I've learned these things from years of experience working on automatic trannys of many and varied manufacture and designs.
As to "at the expense of a tranny" I would say if you have a "propensity" to push the truck to the point that "chirping" the tires happens often then it would be best if you didn't exceed 65% reduction in torque management for longevity sake. The cooler is a good idea regardless of your intents with any other aspects of the transmission. Cooler is better. Hot fluid breaks down quickly and looses its lubricity at an alarming rate as temps increase. Particularly above 250 degrees F. Hope all this helps you.

Gary H · Post by **Gary H** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:05 pm

Ok, after reading through this and a couple other threads, I'm seriously thinking about giving Jesse a call. I just wanted to ask first how everyone else is still feeling about their "tune-ups" almost a year later.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:12 pm

Still runnin mine and lovin it!

gocntry · Post by **gocntry** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:26 am

Gary H wrote:Ok, after reading through this and a couple other threads, I'm seriously thinking about giving Jesse a call. I just wanted to ask first how everyone else is still feeling about their "tune-ups" almost a year later.

Gary,

Here Is A Place Down The Road Arlington/Alexandria Area. This Guy Seems To Be The Go To Person For The 5.3L Tune In The Tahoes. I Do Not Know If He Will Tune A 4.3 Or Not But You Might Want To Send Him An E-mail & Ask.

Black Bear Performance

Gary H · Post by **Gary H** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:05 am

Looks like a good setup. I like the idea of hooking a scanner/logger to the vehicle and then they analyze it and custom tune to the way I drive. Might be better than trying to explain it and a lot more accurate. I think I'll give Justin a call. Thanks!