Water Proofing Connections

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:29 pm

When I upgraded my stock 105 amp CS-130 alternator to the 170 amp CS-144 I had to use an adapter for the wiring.

There is allot of room in the adapters for water to enter where the wires enter them. I have had my alternator drop to producing 7 V two times now. The first time it happened, I dried them out and applied liberal quantities of dielectric grease. The second time it happened I used electronics cleaner and applied more dielectric grease. I need to seal off the openings where the wires enter the connectors. I was thinking of using Permatex Clear RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant which, I have on hand but, do not know if, it is the best choice.

Suggestions?

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:37 pm

Don't use RTV adhesive!

Liberal amounts of dielectric silicone / grease will do the job.

Are you sure it is a moisture intrusion problem? Is there obvious corrosion?

Battery voltage dropping to seven volts doesn't sound right. That sounds more like a short circuit.
A drop below 12 volts would signify an interruption in the charging system. Lower than that may be a real problem.

Those wires only do two things. One excites the regulator and starts the alternator. The other is a sense wire for the computer. A bad connection could result in an interruption of the charging, but it would take a really long time to drop the voltage down that far.

If the adapter continues to be a problem, you might consider eliminating it.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:50 pm

HenryJ wrote:Don't use RTV adhesive!

Liberal amounts of dielectric silicone / grease will do the job.

Are you sure it is a moisture intrusion problem? Is there obvious corrosion?

Thanks for the heads up. I am glad I asked before trying it. The wire openings in the connectors is roughly double the diameters of the wires. I'll try to figure out a way to squeeze the grease down into them.

I can pull the adapter and sling water out of it. There was minor corrosion last time and that is why I used the cleaner. The male connector on top of the alternator itself had standing water that I eliminated with clean dry Q-tips before the cleaner and re greasing.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:54 pm

The water issue was a result of trying to get all the mud out of my engine bay from the last trail ride and would not normally exist if, I had not sprayed off the engine and engine bay. The intake and distributor was protected.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:57 pm

A dab of RTV silicone at the back of the connectors to seal the wires would be OK, in my book. Just don't smear that stuff all over to seal the connection

Don't forget that you can spray everything down with a liberal coat of cheap hairspray to seal out moisture.
Don't get "busted" with the empty can though

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:02 pm

HenryJ wrote:A dab of RTV silicone at the back of the connectors to seal the wires would be OK, in my book. Just don't smear that stuff all over to seal the connection

That was my original intention. The connectors appear to seal well with the grease. It's those large openings where the wires enter them that is causing grief. I toyed with the idea of liquid tape to seal the openings but, the RTV is a little thicker.

Thanks again

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:17 pm

Reed what did you do in a former life that has you in so much trouble with wiring in this one? We could fill a pond to overflowing with all the drowning ducks you have with the electrical systems around your house and truck

You might try checking in to a marine supply house, they might have something that would seal connections tighter than common automotive sealants since the use they put them to is more extreme than ours.Just a thought.
When I wired my front camera up I used a GM weatherpak connector I had around I know it won't help with the alternator connector but if you hit a junk yard you might want to liberate a few of those for your projects.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:29 pm

04crewvt wrote:Reed what did you do in a former life that has you in so much trouble with wiring in this one?

Great! Now I am getting grief from a 300 lbs 7' Geek

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:34 pm

At least it is only a moisture intrusion problem. The whole thing sounded eerily familiar:

HenryJ wrote:...Five times the alternator has failed to start in a timely manner. It has been after sitting over night and on cool mornings.
I thought it may have been the connections, but this morning I drive a half mile or so without the alternator charging. I stop check the connections, but nothing gets it working. So, I turn around and head home. Just as I pull into the driveway it fires up. This was the worst case of the five, and not related to connections.
I took it back to the alternator shop, and of course we could not replicate the problem.
It really doesn't make sense, since heat could cause a problem, not cold

All those times I though it was a connection issue. Cleaned them, greased them, sprung the connections to make sure they were tight and clean.

The first thing I thought when I read this thread was, deja vu.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:53 pm

HenryJ wrote:At least it is only a moisture intrusion problem. The whole thing sounded eerily familiar:

That crossed my mind until I found water

rlrnr53 · Post by **rlrnr53** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:30 am

RTV sealer in the past contained large amounts of acetic acid in their formulation. I don't know if the newer RTV has the same formula. The acetic acid would corrode the wires and connectors. If kept on the insulation and plastic connector housings, you should have no problems.

That is an outstanding post! Thank you -HJ

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:48 am

f9k9 wrote:
04crewvt wrote:Reed what did you do in a former life that has you in so much trouble with wiring in this one?
Great! Now I am getting grief from a 300 lbs 7' Geek

Just trying to help out a friend.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:21 am

Hopefully, the RTV will assist in keeping the water out.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:08 am

why dont you just switch to somethin like this, then you can never worry again

http://www.route66supply.com/store/page2.html

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:29 am

purduecrew wrote:why dont you just switch to somethin like this...http://www.route66supply.com/store/page2.html

Those are nice, but incorrect to attach to the alternators regulator.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:50 am

what are the requirements then?

The ends have to look like these-
-HJ

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:20 am

I looked around ROUTE 66 Site and our recently very ill Lad has found the answer to the relay water proofing issue though with these.

[b]ROUTE 66[/b] wrote:Hella Waterproof Relays
Hella waterproof relays are the best quality relays available, used by OEM auto manufactures as well as discriminating streetrod builders. Waterproof relays are great for jeeps, trucks, off road vehicles, and relays located in engine compartments. Waterproof relays keep you going.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:23 am

Quick Reed better buy a dozen or so before they discontinue them on you

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:38 am

04crewvt wrote:Quick Reed better buy a dozen or so before they discontinue them on you

Go ahead, make fun of me you behemoth

and I am ordering some now!

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:44 am

Hey How did you guess I was a swordfighter too. My viking _astard sword does a number on tree limbs or any other limbs that need cutting off for that matter.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:56 am

A trip to the local salvage yard will yield plenty of those waterproof relays too. Both Ford and GM use them on their trucks.
You are not as likely to find them at the local autoparts store though, and they do cost more.

Mount the relay with the terminals down so that it can drain and is less likely to take on water. Mount it high in the engine compartment so it is not likely to be submerged.
That alone should take care of any problems with out investing in special connectors , or waterproof relays.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:54 am

HenryJ wrote:A trip to the local salvage yard will yield plenty of those waterproof relays too. Both Ford and GM use them on their trucks..................

Oops, too late. Have 2 ordered .

Am sure that you are correct but, I am unable to find any "open" salvage yards yet but, I am building upon a "relationship" with one pretty close by

They always remember me (who wouldn't when I show up in dress clothes) and go with them into the yard. I traded my stock radiator in on "future" favors.

I don't know if, I would recognize a factory relay if, I saw one.

Could you give an example in our CCs?

TIA,

Reed

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:26 am

You have to go to the mid to late ninties. Most of the relays migrated to the electrical center. You will find them on the firewall. Usually near the HVAC or on the core support.

They are bigger. Somewhat bulky.

These are the two I used for my fans before I made the switch to the variable speed controller.

Made in Canada by Dualtec Electronics.

GMpartsdirect.com wrote:GM PART # 25553347
PACK QTY: 1
GM LIST: $10.91
OUR PRICE: $5.67
DESCRIPTION: RELAY ASM

I use the common small relays for most everything else.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:09 pm

f9k9 wrote:I looked around ROUTE 66 Site and our recently very ill Lad has found the answer to the relay water proofing issue though with these.

muahaha at least i found something to do with all my time

and yes, henry j, i know thats what he had, i just figured a few wire snips, some heatshrink and new connectors and he would be done!

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:32 pm

purduecrew wrote:...and yes, henry j, i know thats what he had, i just figured a few wire snips, some heatshrink and new connectors and he would be done!

I don't think you do understand.
This is an adapter he has added to convert the connector to adapt to the new/different regulator in his aftermarket alternator. This is not just a connector added inline.

If he wanted to simplify the wiring and number connections, he could remove the wires from his stock connector and insert them into the squared looking connector above. This would mate directly with the alternators regulator and it only uses two wires.

While on this part of the topic, less connections have advantages. Each connection is a point of resistance and an opportunity for interruption.

The stock connectors have only two holes for two wires and are water resistant. The aftermarket connectors that I have were sloppy and ill fitting. This is one place where the stock connectors are really pretty good.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:08 pm

HenryJ wrote:............If the adapter continues to be a problem, you might consider eliminating it.

I would but, I don't want to screw up the stock wiring in case, I need to go back to the stock alternator in case the upgraded one fails or I need to sell the Crew (not anticipated).

HenryJ wrote:You have to go to the mid to late ninties. Most of the relays migrated to the electrical center. You will find them on the firewall. Usually near the HVAC or on the core support.

They are bigger. Somewhat bulky.

Those, I can identify

Thank you! Are OEM relays marked with the usual suspects (30, 85, 86, and 87)? If, they aren't then I am wasting my time

You remember limited knowledge of electricity

F9K9 wrote:I know that my house is AC, my Crew is DC and if, I have a bad connection, my meter doesn't make a beep

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:19 pm

f9k9 wrote:...I don't want to screw up the stock wiring in case, I need to go back to the stock alternator in case the upgraded one fails or I need to sell the Crew (not anticipated).

Understood. If you continue to have problems we can talk you through how to release the terminals from the connectors and make the swap. They both use the same terminals, just different connector housings.

Are OEM relays marked with the usual suspects (30, 85, 86, and 87)?

Yes. The actually have a diagram built into the side of the relay. All the numbers are standardized and the same.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:29 pm

Thanks once again.

I may have to do that if, the RTV fails to do the trick. I just completed the aux BU light swap out and we'll see if, I learned anything.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:30 pm

f9k9 wrote:

[b]ROUTE 66[/b] wrote:Hella Waterproof Relays
Hella waterproof relays are the best quality relays available, used by OEM auto manufactures as well as discriminating streetrod builders. Waterproof relays are great for jeeps, trucks, off road vehicles, and relays located in engine compartments. Waterproof relays keep you going.

I ordered these before Brule recommended the salvage yards on November 4th and it is now the 28th and they arrived today. I give route66supply a solid "hands down" to shop from!. I got the order confirmation on the first work day after the order but, nothing more. I wrote them a week ago and they did not feel that a response was warranted. A firm to shy away from IMO.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:40 pm

Okay, I am in need of a little help here. I don't need to know which wires go where on the relay but, I do need the procedure for the assembly of the Hella relay

How is it assembled ?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:11 pm

f9k9 wrote:

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:46 am

Got it figured out?

Push the wires through the rubber seal. Add the terminals and insert into the housing. You should be able to tell which way the terminals go in to lock in place.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:16 am

HenryJ wrote:Got it figured out?......

Thanks, I believe I have it figured out. BTW, there appears to be plenty of room outboard of the glove box for the relays and power strips.