Cargo Basket AUX Light Wiring Suggestions

Modified and aftermarket systems, lights, wiring, etc.

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Cargo Basket AUX Light Wiring Suggestions

Post by F9K9 »

I have this Basket enroute for a Christmas present from Mrs. Hoff.

B-Man has one.
B-Man wrote:....... its really secure now and easy to get on and off.........
It has 6 light tabs available ( 4 front and 2 rear) and I plan on taking full advantage of them. Since, I will want to be able to take the basket on and off for various reasons I will need some type of electrical quick disconnect located on the roof. I will be running the lights in pairs so, I would think that I could get by with 1 good ground and 3 "hots". I know that 3 additional switches and 3 relays are needed.

You know that my electrical knowledge is severely lacking but, would a good trailer "connect" work in this application? I am thinking about the using the Hella 500s front and rear.

I am thinking about the using the Hella 500s front and rear.
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Post by BADs Crew »

After watching OCC and biker build offs I see how they run wires through the frame and tuck them in so they are less noticeable. How about using a trailer wiring kit and drilling through your roof rite in the center of where your luggage rack mounts' Then you could pull the wire through the hollow part of the rack and drill the inside of the rail rite where you need the plug, you could pull the wire over your head liner and down the post to get the the fuse panel.
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Post by F9K9 »

BADs Crew wrote:After watching OCC and biker build offs I see how they run wires through the frame and tuck them in so they are less noticeable. How about using a trailer wiring kit and drilling through your roof rite in the center of where your luggage rack mounts' Then you could pull the wire through the hollow part of the rack and drill the inside of the rail rite where you need the plug, you could pull the wire over your head liner and down the post to get the the fuse panel.
I'd still need a disconnect. The stock GM S/T series racks are solid where they mount on the roof. To hollow it out would severely weaken it. I'll have to hide a plug towards the center of the roof next to a GM mount. I was really concerned with wire size for this mod. I have no qualms about drilling the roof and running the needed wires.

Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Post by BADs Crew »

Do I smell more back up lights?
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Post by BADs Crew »

Disconnects I drilled a hole in the roof of my van to install my K-40 for my CB. It’s a PITA to seal around; I had the rack off my Blazer to paint it B4. I cant remember if the mount part was hollow or not. Even if its not your going to have less of a chance of having a leak if you drill straight through it and seal it using windshield sealer or 100% silicone. It wont rust around the hole if you do have a leak and you would be able to secure it better so it won't be a weak point if the wire gets snagged or pulled.
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Post by rlrnr53 »

f9k9, try bringing the wires out of the center high mount stop light. Its cheaper to replace the light housing than repair a hole in metal
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Post by HenryJ »

Quickcar waterproof firewall grommets
Something like that will get the cable through the metal, then a weatherpack connector would do the job.

Waytek wire automotive connectors , Weatherpack connectors

If you are going to operate all the lights at the same time, you could always follow my wireless winch light idea. Then you would only need one wire connected for power to the rack. A bulk head connection would work to attach one cable. Maybe add a second for a good ground? Just ideas :mg:

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Post by F9K9 »

BADs Crew wrote:Do I smell more back up lights?
With a vengeance :lol:
rlrnr53 wrote:f9k9, try bringing the wires out of the center high mount stop light. Its cheaper to replace the light housing than repair a hole in metal
I'm not concerned with what happens after I part with the Crew. No dealer or individual will climb on top and see the connector. My 3rd brake light looks so warped and brittle that I am staying away from it until I have to deal with it.
HenryJ wrote:Quickcar waterproof firewall grommets
Something like that will get the cable through the metal, then a weatherpack connector would do the job.

Waytek wire automotive connectors , Weatherpack connectors

If you are going to operate all the lights at the same time, you could always follow my wireless winch light idea. Then you would only need one wire connected for power to the rack. A bulk head connection would work to attach one cable. Maybe add a second for a good ground? Just ideas :mg:


All look really good, Brule but, I want them on separate switches I am still wondering about two things.

1. Wire Size
2. Will a four terminal connector do the trick?

The firewall connection looks like the best route IF, the interior's part is not too deep to cause a problem with the required 90 degree turn needed to head the wires to the pillar between the driver's side two doors without deforming the roof liner..

Maybe. I should reword all of this :lol: Will a four wire connector work if, it is 12 AG? Will a 12 AG ground work with all 3 pairs illuminated at once ( I can't think of the need but, let's over build)?
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Post by HenryJ »

f9k9 wrote:1. Wire Size, Will a 12 AG ground work with all 3 pairs illuminated at once
Length and amps - RBE wire gauge table
2. Will a four terminal connector do the trick? ...Will a four wire connector work if, it is 12 AG?
It could. depending upon what you want to do and how long the run is.
How about you give us your plan and we pick it apart...er, uh ...improve upon it :mg:
Last edited by HenryJ on Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:1. Wire Size, Will a 12 AG ground work with all 3 pairs illuminated at once
Length and amps - RBE wire gauge table
2. Will a four terminal connector do the trick? ...Will a four wire connector work if, it is 12 AG?
It could. depending upon what you want to do and how long the run is.
I know you are teaching me how to "fish" but, we are talking "electricity/water fowl/fires/me". I can tell you how to set your sites with a 3-5 mph crosswind with a 7.62 mm match round but. I am befuddled with the tables linked.

The tables make sense to you but, I am confused. Let's just say 55 watt lights and 25' of wire to be on the safe/overkill side.
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Post by HenryJ »

Two lights per wire would be 110 watts.

On the table 120 w using 12 ga wire = 20 ft max length.

25' would require 10 ga.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:Two lights per wire would be 110 watts.

On the table 120 w using 12 ga wire = 20 ft max length.

25' would require 10 ga.
Thanks! That helps a lot with connector selection as well. Sorry to be such a PITA but when I look at an electrical chart, I freak! I don't know why but, I do. I have no background with any family or friends electrocuted but, have read way too much I guess.

Thanks once again!
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Post by HenryJ »

f9k9 wrote:...when I look at an electrical chart, I freak! I don't know why but, I do. I have no background with any family or friends electrocuted but, have read way too much I guess.
I have a neighbor just like you :lol:

Here is one option:
Attach a 10 gauge fuseable link to the battery. Run a 10 gauge wire from the fuseable link to a three terminal junction block inside the B pillar. This will power three relays mounted nearby. From these three 14 gauge wires would travel up to the lights via a piece of 14-4 Romex. This would go through the waterproof bulk head connector and to a weatherhead connector. From there Romex to the lights. One of the four wires would be a ground. Be sure to ground to the rack. An additional ground strap might be a good idea too, if your stock rack is not well grounded.

From the relays the wiring to the switches would travel under the carpet and seats to the center console where the switches are mounted replacing the coin holder.
If you want lighted switches go forward to the dash, otherwise use ground activation for the relays.

Now lets pick this apart :mg:

Romex is a rubber insulated cable 14-4 designates four conductors that are 14 gauge.
Romex does not handle UV and oils very well sometimes. Four conductor "trailer cable" may be a better choice. It has a harder plastic covering. The poly holds up better. Less flexible, but more durability.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:Here is one option:
Attach a 10 gauge fuseable link to the battery. Run a 10 gauge wire from the fuseable link to a three terminal junction block inside the B pillar......
I am with you to this point :D
HenryJ wrote:........This will power three relays mounted nearby......
Having run countless emergency light wiring and coaxial cables thru the A and B pillars (like yourself) I, can picture a terminal junction located there but, not relays. Maybe there is newer solid state stuff out now but the wiring alone will be a challenge to snap the plastic pillar cover back in place. I am all ears and very humble.
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Post by F9K9 »

You are editing faster than I can write :lol: Let's both think about this for of a couple days. I'll need the time to study the info you have generously provided.
Last edited by F9K9 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HenryJ »

There is room inside the pillar and under the cover. Just avoid the seat belt tensioner/retractor and mount them just above it, side by side. If that doesn't work shove them in the oblong hole just below it.

Next option would to go a little further back and put this all in the rear cab corner (D post). There is plenty of room back there. That is where my power filter for the ham radio is located.

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Post by F9K9 »

Very well thought out and insightful recommendations. Thanks. May I interest you in a few well behaved and house broken ducks?

It is now dark and your faithful off roading buddies thought that you already made it out.

I would think that that a readily accessible "fix" is needed but, then again, I am a newbie. I had unlimited resources in the field until I retired.
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Post by 2kwik4u »

Just a thought, but wouldn't a nice connector from an electric RC car carry enough current, and be semi-protected from the weather? They are high current applications, and some of the connectors advertise to lose less current than the wire they are replacing. Deans makes some really nice ones.
Deans plugs at a hobby store

That would get your high current to the rack, and then you could easily re-route it from there. Perhaps put the relays, and panels into a nice small black rubbermaid container mounted to the rack?

Just some thought to keep your connectors to a minimum, and your wire thick enough to take the load.

In the end if it comes down to it, I'd be happy to design up a schematic, amass the parts, and even come help with the install one weekend, assuming you'de cover lunch while I'm there :D......

*edit*

After re-reading the thread.....I would consider using the 3rd brake light at an entry point for the wires. Semi-easy to seal, and if you remove the rack you can tuck a small amount of wires in there behind the bulb-reflector. Truck would appear stock with the rack off at that point.....Again just some thoughts :D
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Post by rlrnr53 »

I have used the high mount light to wire bar lights on reg cab pickups, using a 10 ga. two wire cable. Didn't have any trouble with the wiring as long as we had the truck. I would rather go this route than having to drill the body. Another option would be to use a weather proof box to the rack using a relay for each set of lights in the box. the relays would be accessible and you would need a power and ground wire and a signal wire for each circuit that you wanted to control. The best thing about this setup is the ability to add extra circuits by just running another signal wire and relay for each circuit. If you were a little closer, I'd be glad to assist.
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Post by F9K9 »

2kwik4u wrote:.................In the end if it comes down to it, I'd be happy to design up a schematic, and even come help with the install one weekend, assuming you'de cover lunch while I'm there :D......
Lunch, free labor for 8 hrs, beer would be covered. A "room" is always covered with a "boomer"
:wink:
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Post by F9K9 »

Lots of excellent recommendations :thumb: I definitely need to mull all of them over before choosing a final route.

I really like Brule's B pillar route if, it can be made bullet proof. I don't trust my luck and locating/repairing light troubles would be difficult if, located there.

A tupperware style container is a good idea and could be hidden under the spare but, securing it on the rack would be an issue and requires 5 wires (-, +, and three signal wires) and that limits the quick disconnect selection. I'd prefer an "ammo can" and I have several laying around here but, probably wouldn't fit under the spare.

Image

This is my current electrical status. I realize that the "yellow top" is wrong battery in my set up but, I am stuck with it until it fails. One fuse (the long fuse) is for the e-fans and the blade style is for the KC Dayliters. Not much room here for the required three additional relays.

Image

There's definitely time to think all of this through and gather the needed components.
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Post by HenryJ »

My reasoning behind keeping the relays close to the connection point at the roof, is it limits the number of hot wires traveling and maximizes the size of the wire from the battery.

A fuse or fuseable link needs to be at the battery. For those who may not know a fuseable link is a section of wire designed with a lower melting point than copper. This section of wire is designed to melt and save the rest of the wiring in the event of a short circuit. They take up little space since they are just a piece of wire.

The relays offer another form of protection. If the short should occur beyond them. They are a line of defense in that they would fail. Yet another reason to have them just before the connection to the rack. If something goes wrong the fail safe point is close.

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Post by F9K9 »

Been looking around for the suggested three terminal junction block. Have checked Painless and Route66 without much luck. Do you have another source?
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Post by HenryJ »

Actually, any of the junction blocks can be made to be the number that you need.

Image

Cut through the raised portion of the junction block. In your case for a three terminal junction block count over to the fifth raised section between terminals. Use a hack saw to cut it in two. I have a little coping saw that I use for this. Clean up the edge where the half of the raise is left. Then with both screws removed flip it over and use a punch to remove the metal.
What you have now should look just like the outside end. You now have a three terminal junction block. :mg:

These are available in different sizes. Some are big an bulky, others are smaller. Your local auto parts store should have them. I buy them at NAPA and our local AC Delco parts store.

To energize all three terminals you can build jumpers out of wire, or spend a little time with a strip of metal and your Dremel or cut-off disk for your grinder. The strip can be cut for length and slots for the insulators between the terminals. Drill your holes and screw it in place to link the terminals. Copper or brass would be nice, but some sheetmetal works fine.

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Post by F9K9 »

Thanks, I guess I was looking to hard and overlooked the simpler style. :lol:

EDIT

Well, I began the quest to get all the components today. I picked up 2 8' rolls of 10 ga wire for $4.88 each from Advance but, I will return them. I found 10 ga wire at Summit and it was priced $14.95 for 75'. I hit Advance. O'Rielly's and Wallyworld and there were no 10 ga fusible links or any inline fuse holders equipped with 10 ga wire. This is minor because we have time to locate the required parts.

I am planning on 1 hot 10 ga wire from the battery to the relay location. I have three weather proof relays enroute from Route 66 that was ordered for my back up aux light concerns.

I am working with Jigg (Justin/synergyoffroad.com) on a delete panel for my CD holder and plan on mounting my switches there.

If. the relays will not fit in the B pillar, I am wondering about inside the console now. It is farther away from the basket and Brule's concerns looms large with the console location. I am just thinking out loud at this point.

The cheapest "SS" lights are Summit's own brand and they will exceed the cost of the basket. Most of the lights in the photos are with the Hella 500s which is a shallow light. I'm waiting on an answer from the seller to see if, the KC Dayliter style will fit. I won't accept anything less that stainless steel because of corrosion and cleaning issues.

This is easily going to cost over $500 when the dust clears :bonk:
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Post by Andy L. »

I see you already started but here is a product that I use when doing installs on emergency vehicles which could be easily used for your purpose.

LB9-01
LB200-9

Made By MNStar Enforcer Systems

Here is one that I installed - not the best photo but sort of gives you the idea. I can get more pics if this is something you are insterested in. Let me know.
Image
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Post by F9K9 »

Good info Andy! I'm still mulling options over but, that is a good idea. :D
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Post by F9K9 »

I also picked up a roll of 10-gauge wire to run from the battery to either the "B" pillar or console. This is where the terminal strip will be located.

Image

This where I have a few questions :oops:

I know that I need the 10 gauge wire fused at the battery via fuse or fusible link. The heaviest gauge wired in fuse that I can locate is 12 gauge and all the fusible links are designated for OEM purposes. I am pretty sure that going through a 12 gauge wired fuse to the 10 gauge is a fire "no-no". I thought about looking under mobile radio wiring (that is what is on my LS-1 e-fan set up) for some type of fuse today so, I'll look for that later tonight.

Second question is going from the 10 gauge main line into the terminal strip. I am going to have to split that into 3 of it's terminals. I remembered too late about "power strips" that I used in emergency vehicle wiring that just had one hot input to the strip and connections from there. Any safe wiring thoughts there?

The wiring that came with the lights is 14 gauge for pairs so, I am leaning towards the flat four wire trailer connection on the roof for removal when needed. I'm also leaning towards the 3rd brake light as the portal to outside of the crew.

I am also wondering if, each pair of lights should not be independently fused.

It is all just food for thought and if, anyone has other ideas I am more than just open at the suggestions.

Thanks,
Reed

Edit....I am striking out on the 10 gauge fuse thing with automotive and mobile radio wiring. I am gonna take a break from searching and resume at a later time :!:
Last edited by F9K9 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HenryJ »

f9k9 wrote:...I know that I need the 10 gauge wire fused at the battery via fuse or fusible link. The heaviest gauge wired in fuse that I can locate is 12 gauge and all the fusible links are designated for OEM purposes.
OEM fusible links would be fine. I use them from the firewall of the mid ninties GM pick-ups. They have a nice junction block with several. NAPA sells rolls of fusible wire. Have them check their electrical catalog.
Another nice option:
Image
100 amp resetable breaker. This offers the option of being able to switch off the power at the source if needed.

You can also drill five holes in two pieces of strap metal to attach four 30 amp circuit breakers in parallel like this-
Image
That is a combined 90 amp circuit breaker.

Maxi fuses could be used in parallel too, but that may be getting in over your head.
There are many options.
f9k9 wrote:...going from the 10 gauge main line into the terminal strip. I am going to have to split that into 3 of it's terminals...Any safe wiring thoughts there?
HenryJ wrote:To energize all three terminals you can build jumpers out of wire, or spend a little time with a strip of metal and your Dremel or cut-off disk for your grinder. The strip can be cut for length and slots for the insulators between the terminals. Drill your holes and screw it in place to link the terminals. Copper or brass would be nice, but some sheetmetal works fine.
These strips may also available commercially. I have always made my own though.
f9k9 wrote: I am leaning towards the flat four wire trailer connection on the roof for removal when needed.
Leave room to cut it off and install weatherpack connectors. Those flat four may not fair well exposed to UV and can be somewhat difficult to maintain good connections sometimes. Protect the wiring too. Most flat four trailer wiring is not very good when subjected to UV. Some corrugated wire loom would be a good investment.
f9k9 wrote:I am also wondering if, each pair of lights should not be independently fused.
Not a bad idea. The relays will act as a safeguard as well. Fuses are cheaper than relays.
You don't have to add them though.

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Post by F9K9 »

Holy COW! That is a bunch to digest! I hope you remember who you are dealing with :lol: You have given much to work with. I have not seen any of the components pictured during my physical and online searches but, now I know to make them look up some of the components at the store. I'll pursue some of the alternatives provided and will be back to ask for additional input at a later time.

:thumb:
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Post by HenryJ »

Keep in mind that mine is not the only way. I change my mind frequently. Somethings may sound good and then just not work as well when actually doing the install.

If you bump into other ideas along the way feel free to take a left turn :mg:

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Post by F9K9 »

That is understood 8) I am just trying to maintain some resemblance of a cool head during this electrical mod without getting POed and slapping it together. Just routing the three pairs of wiring circuits neatly for the 3 pairs of the lights on the cargo rack should keep my electrically challenged mind busy for weeks. I wanted to do this in stages but, I am learning that you have to keep thinking a step ahead for connection purposes. I am going to step back and wait on the rack before I try to do much more planning. :lol:
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Post by rlrnr53 »

When you go to NAPA, tell them to look in the Belden wiring book, and the electrical section of the Balkamp book. Sounds silly, but I have found a lot of counter people won't look in a paper catalog unless you suggest that they look there. It seams that most of them think that if its not in the computer, it doesn't exist.
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Post by HenryJ »

rlrnr53 wrote:When you go to NAPA, tell them to look in the Belden wiring book, and the electrical section of the Balkamp book. Sounds silly, but I have found a lot of counter people won't look in a paper catalog unless you suggest that they look there. It seams that most of them think that if its not in the computer, it doesn't exist.
100% agree! I have had the salesmen keep me stocked with my own catalogs. Sometimes I actually have more than they do. I look up all my own part numbers when I can, and just call in the part numbers and quantities. It really speeds things up. I have been doing this for 20 years. most of the counter people haven't been alive that long. The turn over is high most places. They can not afford to keep the good ones. Those usually find a better job just about the time they are getting good at this one.

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Post by F9K9 »

As posted in Classified section, my rack arrived but there are some issues with it and it is killing me that I can't take advantage of a beautiful rare 58° November day. I know that I should have started the wiring from the battery through the firewall into the cab today but, my heart was not into it. I did purchase an OEM fusible link this week. I decided to drop by my local Radio Shack today to look for some components. What I could not find stocked in 5 local part stores was a blade type in line fuse holder with 10 gauge wire. My store had a section with many drawers that were well marked and offered plenty of automotive wiring parts and I located one there and purchased it. Just another alternative for electrical 12 volt needs.
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Post by HenryJ »

Found a picture of Ross' (thawed out) Rover-

Image

He bought his rack through NAPA. He worked there and received an employee discount. I think it cost $300. Now that I see the picture, I am pretty sure it is a Warrior Products rack.

Reed, You might check out this page: Warrior Products Those light brackets might be just the ticket to solve your light mounting issues?

Auxiliary Light bracket , Warrior light brackets

You might have to add a sleeve if your rack is less than 1" tubing.

NAPA sells this stuff if you want to order locally, however their prices may not be the best.

Maybe just use the ideas and build your own? There are some clamping mirror brackets that could , perhaps , be adapted? Maybe a stroll through Homedepot for some ideas?

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Post by F9K9 »

Hmmmmmmm, thanks, Brule!
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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:Here is one option:
Attach a 10 gauge fuseable link to the battery. Run a 10 gauge wire from the fuseable link to a three terminal junction block inside the B pillar. This will power three relays mounted nearby. From these three 14 gauge wires would travel up to the lights via a piece of 14-4 Romex. This would go through the waterproof bulk head connector and to a weatherhead connector. From there Romex to the lights. One of the four wires would be a ground. Be sure to ground to the rack. An additional ground strap might be a good idea too, if your stock rack is not well grounded............
Okay, I am down to wiring the lights on the Yakima Load Warrior now and will do the inside wiring later (or warmer weather). The grounding of the lights is confusing me now. The Yakima light mounting brackets are insulated from the rack via synthetic material. The same applies for the Yakima rack mounting to my stock rack.

I can't see how one 14 gauge ground wire will work will handle six lights. Do I ground each light to the rack and then one wire from the rack to the Romex?


Image


A couple of things from a previous roof light threadkeeps bothering me. Staying within Brule's figures for what length of runs and required wire gauges for the positive wires should address that problem.
HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:...The front pillar would work with just 3 wires. ...
I am a little confused about the three wires?

To run four forward facing 100 watt lights you will need a minimum of 10 ga wire one positive one negative. To run the two rear facing lights you will need two 12ga. wires.

That's four wires minimum If you plan to only run one ground wire it would need to be 8ga for all six lights.
RocK wrote:I just finished my roof rack light bar. Got 4 forward facing lights and will add two facing the rear later. I will try to get some pics on here by tues or wednesday. Its the stock roof rack with all wiring hidden. (that was a pain) 10ga wire everywhere and each light has its own wire that runs to an 8ga wire running through the roof down the front pillar etc. Running a 30 amp fuse (no probs yet)...........
RocK wrote:I actually set up the lights using the included wire of 14AWG and the wires got real hot. The 15 amp fuse just started to melt after about 5 min of use. So I figured "safer than sorry" went with 10 and the switch is a 25 amp. I temp'ed it at 110F deg. The lights are 125W and the power is run to the Fuse relay box pos connection........
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Post by HenryJ »

f9k9 wrote: The grounding of the lights is confusing me now...can't see how one 14 gauge ground wire will work will handle six lights. Do I ground each light to the rack and then one wire from the rack to the Romex?
Ground , ground, ground.

You can ground the lights to the basket. Ground the basket to the rack and the rack to the roof. Any additional grounds are a good idea too.

Use the Wire gauge table

14 ga. wire will handle up to 300 watts 12v for a length of 5'.

Are you facing all six forward and wiring them all to come on together?
I will guess that you are wiring them in pairs. Three 14 ga positive wires run to the rack. That one ground wire needs to be as short as possible and with the addition of the grounded rack to the body, it should be sufficient.

You can also get 7 conductor trailer cable. I believe it comes in sizes ranging from 14-10 ga.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:......Ground , ground, ground.

You can ground the lights to the basket. Ground the basket to the rack and the rack to the roof. Any additional grounds are a good idea too.

Use the Wire gauge table
You keep forgetting that I will never learn how to fish but, again with the charts :roll:
HenryJ wrote:14 ga. wire will handle up to 300 watts 12v for a length of 5'.
So, I am planning on 200 watts per pair and do I interpret your linked guide to recommend 7' correctly?
HenryJ wrote:Are you facing all six forward and wiring them all to come on together?
Two pairs facing forward, one pair to face to the rear. Each pair on separate switches. individual relays and fused, in addition, to the main fuse at the battery. I have a board that will have the relays and terminal strips mounted on. I am going to have two terminal strips. One for a ground for the relays and switches and another for the hot from the battery supplying the relays and lighted switches.

I am just trying to get the basket wired in preparation for the interior and engine compartment wiring. I will work on the CD delete from Jiggs and the "board" once I have the basket on the truck.

Thanks, once again, Brule!
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Post by HenryJ »

f9k9 wrote:I am planning on 200 watts per pair and do I interpret your linked guide to recommend 7' correctly?
Yes. You could even go 8' or 9' since you are under 240 watts.
Two pairs facing forward, one pair to face to the rear. Each pair on separate switches. individual relays and fused, in addition, to the main fuse at the battery. I have a board that will have the relays and terminal strips mounted on. I am going to have two terminal strips. One for a ground for the relays and switches and another for the hot from the battery supplying the relays and lighted switches.
Sounds like you have a plan.

For ground straps they sell the braided electrical straps at the auto parts store. These look like the straps used on the fillerneck tube, and the engine to firewall ground. You may have to point them out in the book :roll: You can trim them shorter and solder a terminal to the end. One eight inch strap can become two four inch straps. 10-12 ga terminals work well for the 1/4" straps. Choose what ever size eyelet you need.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:.....For ground straps they sell the braided electrical straps at the auto parts store. These look like the straps used on the fillerneck tube, and the engine to firewall ground. You may have to point them out in the book :roll: You can trim them shorter and solder a terminal to the end. One eight inch strap can become two four inch straps. 10-12 ga terminals work well for the 1/4" straps. Choose what ever size eyelet you need.
More freakin' trips to the part's counter "holler sloths" :bonk: Don't think for a moment that I have not regretted starting this mod. I have even considered sending the crap back but, too much time has been invested now and larger holes drilled in the mounting brackets prevent their return. I need to rethink wire gauges here. The kit's 14 gauge wire will not cut it if, I mount the board in the center console. That also rules out trailer wiring that I have seen on the shelf. I want easy access to the relays and fuses and that rules out the pillar mounting idea.

The grounds alone will require, at least 12 more holes drilled and 24 more connectors. The more I think about the stock rack the more I realize that it should be bypassed all together. The part that attaches the cross pieces to the rails appear to be synthetic and the pieces that mount the rail to the roof appear to be the same but, I am not positive.

Time to just walk away from this mod for now and return in a day or two and reattack it. :roll:
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Post by HenryJ »

I assume you will be drilling the roof for a cable to enter.
What about doing this at the front , A pillar on the right hand side. Down the A pillar to the area behind the glove box to locate the relays and junction block. That would be a nice short lead from the battery and a short trip for the wires from the lights to the relays.

Running wires to the console for the switches would not be too bad.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:I assume you will be drilling the roof for a cable to enter.
What about doing this at the front , A pillar on the right hand side. Down the A pillar to the area behind the glove box to locate the relays and junction block. That would be a nice short lead from the battery and a short trip for the wires from the lights to the relays.....Running wires to the console for the switches would not be too bad.
Hmmmmm, I had let myself get talked into the third brake light housing but, what you suggest will certainly shorten the critical wire runs. Also, it would be easier to wire the one pr from the rear to the front versus 2 prs from the front to the rear. I want this wiring to to be safe and neat. I have to pull most of my rack off anyway when I get ready to mount the basket and put my stock cross members back on. I picked up a second set for Jeremy's Hi-Lift jack and shovel mounts. I'll look at ways to mod the mounts to conceal holes being drilled then. I'll also look at the "behind the glove box" mount. I only have one 14 gauge wire through the antenna firewall grommet for the hot wire for the dayliter relay and a 10 gauge wire may go through there. Good idea. I am glad I rechecked this thread. I had decided to leave it alone for a day of two and was tempted not to look at your reply. :lol:
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Post by Snoman002 »

Here is my thought, and it may be all wet (and probably is).

I always like the direct battery connection for all lights, on both positive and negative, to achieve the highest output from the lights. I also like the largest wire possible/reasonable, for the same reasons.

What I think I would do is this.
First off the rack would be fed power and ground (with a fuse at the battery) directly from the battery. Both wires would have a connector of my choice placed in the proper location, maybe something like the warn winch connector but smaller and waterproof.

The ground would be run to the rack directly, to essentially direct battery ground the rack.

The positive cable would be run into a waterproof box on the rack itself where it would hit a terminal block that splits it to the relays. The small guage trigger wires would then run back through a separate connector and into the cab.

The lights could then be grounded using self tapping screws and ring terminals to the rack itself, and the power wires could then be run to the relays using wire that is not longer than what is required to get from the light to the relays. If I went really nuts each light would have a wire running a sealed mini fuse, or maybe just between the terminal block and the relays.

It looks like there is enough room under the rack to mount a small box so that is where I would probably put the relays and the terminal block. Access on the trail might be a little limited in that location though, on the other hand, having the opening for the box facing down would prevent water from getting to the relays or terminal block.

This is just me thinking, probably not the best setup and probably very expensive and complicated, but hey what the hell, it's late and I felt like typing. About the biggest problem I see with this is you would have a "hot" wire running outside the truck at all times, even with the connector unplugged. You would have to make sure that no water could get to the relay box, or into the connector when the rack was off. Or you could just put a switch on the power feed to the rack on the battery. I guess the biggest thing here was trying to get all, or at least most, associated pieces on the rack itself, other than a few bits of wire and some switches everything else related to the lights is removed when the rack is removed. This would give you a power feed to the rack itself though in case there might ever be anything else needing power up there, would make installing those under rack neons easy :lol: .


On another note:
In your case I would use relay connectors instead of just blade terminal for each wire/terminal on the relay (not sure which way you were planning on going with that). I would probably also run four relays next to each other, that way if a relay goes bad you can just unplug one connector on the relay and transfer it to the fourth spare relay in a matter of seconds, and not run the possibly of getting the wires switched around.

When you do run this setup, don't forget to keep whatever connector you have covered in di-electric grease at all times.
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Post by HenryJ »

That description does sound reasonable. I was trying to keep the wire sizes down as small as possible. I guess a 6 ga cable run to the roof would do the trick though.

Following that note and with money as no object, you could install wireless lighting. Use three wireless relays. Then the rack would only need a power source.

That would work just like my removable winch mount - Wireless control winch lights
This plan of action would require further investigation. Do the optronics relays operate on different frequencies? Could a panel to hold the remotes and install in the CD holder as a bank of switches be fabricated? Are there other options for wireless relays? I know X10 does lots of this stuff, but I have never investigated the options.

On ebay right now if you search for wireless light, the cheapest set-up is a wireless neon underbody light kit for motorcycles. With shipping it comes to $40 each.

2Kool has some options - A kit includes a five button remote and one controller. Then you add additional controllers. That would be their cheapest option at $224 for three remotely controlled circuits. You would have to add relays since the controllers can't handle large loads. They also have a switch pad that could be mounted on the CD block off plate.
With money being no object this would be the highest tech way to solve the problem.

Actually they have a special going: Online Special- Starter kit $49. add one more receiver and have everything for around $100. That really doesn't sound bad. I am tempted to get one just to have it :lol: I don't know what I would do with it though :?

All the controls , receivers, etc. could be mounted to the basket. One wire and a good ground to disconnect everything for removal of the basket. No wiring switches. Velcro a remote in the truck for operation, and carry one in a pocket for camp use. This would be the way I would go if I had the need.
Hmmm... Maybe recess a set of lights into my cargo box? :idea:

Now that we are down to one wire what about a hands free connector? A couple plates mounted into one of the bows. One isolated as the positive and the other the ground. rub a little electrical grease on them when setting the basket, or cargo box ;) on the bow. Corresponding plates on the attached basket/box. Separated with some distance and under a point of attachment. Tighten it down to make good contact. Easy on, and easy off. No connectors to worry about. Clean the connection plates with some steel wool once and a while. You would want a good breaker on the supply line so that power could be disconnected when not in use , or while installing. I would not want to accidentally short them.

EDIT: another wireless controller - Sailor's Solutions- WRS01 Wireless 12 Volt DC Remote Switch
Last edited by HenryJ on Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by F9K9 »

You guys are killing me :lol: I actually considered this remote control set up late in the in this mod. A waterproof pelican box on the rack under the spare was where I'd put it. Oh well, maybe on my next rig :idea:
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Post by Snoman002 »

Hadn't really though of the "hands free" connector, that is a GREAT idea.

You could probably source a couple of those from mini-vans at the junk yard, I know quite a few of them used those to provide electrical to the door when closed. I'm sure aftermarket companies make these too but my limited searching ability prevented me from finding any.
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Post by HenryJ »

Snoman002 wrote:...could probably source a couple of those from mini-vans at the junk yard, I know quite a few of them used those to provide electrical to the door when closed. I'm sure aftermarket companies make these too but my limited searching ability prevented me from finding any.
I know there were door jamb spring loaded connections available for street rods. Painless makes some, I think? I am not sure they would efficiently handle the loads we are dealing with here though. I could see a NMO antenna mount type connection.
Actually a few nylon washers and a bolt is all it would take. A carriage bolt with a large flange nylon washer. add a smaller one to fit the hole and another large flange on the bottom side and a fender washer to back it up. Snug it down with a nut. Add the terminal for the wire and another nut to attach it.
A stud and wing nut on the top could be used instead of the contact method , if desired.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:For ground straps they sell the braided electrical straps at the auto parts store. These look like the straps used on the fillerneck tube, and the engine to firewall ground. You may have to point them out in the book :roll:
How right you were :!: :lol: I just grabbed the books and found them myself. I do not know what in the Hel_ I was thinking but, I ordered 7. Why 7? I guess, I was thinking one for each light and one for the rack to body :oops: I ran into my typical problems and among other things had to drill holes into the light brackets for the stainless steel wire braiding to go through along with their rubber grommets and then paint the fresh metal. I yanked off my rack bows with the shovel and Hi-Lift jack mounts and replaced them with my OEM ZR5 roof rack bows. I had planned on installing the Yakima shovel and Hi-Lift jack mounts but the sun was setting and it was time to give my pup a good ball playing session. It is supposed to be nice tomorrow and I may take off to work on this mod. Here is the test fitting of the rack and for me.........................the jury is still out on whether I like the rack or not.

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Post by HenryJ »

Looks like it matches the tail guards pretty nicely.

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:Looks like it matches the tail guards pretty nicely.
I can tell already that you are not a fan but, you mentioned that elsewhere. At least, you were polite. :lol: I figure with 4 forward facing 6" lights and the spare tire will cost me 5-6 mpg and merely looking at a moderate incline will cause a rollover :lol:
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Post by HenryJ »

I would have had one if not for the dusty clay and silt during the summer. I am not against them. The need for additional storage is a given. The cargo box made more sense for what I do. It won't be that big a rollover risk if you keep it loaded with light stuff.
It will be interesting to see what it does do to your performance and mpg.

The cargo box may be a little more aerodynamic, but probably not a huge difference. I notice it a little in a heavy cross wind at highway speeds, but not a huge difference in mileage.

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Post by rlrnr53 »

The basket looks good! May your ducks have their life jackets on when you start the light wiring.
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Post by kermit »

You're getting close to being the most modded...

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:.........It will be interesting to see what it does do to your performance and mpg...................The cargo box may be a little more aerodynamic, but probably not a huge difference. I notice it a little in a heavy cross wind at highway speeds, but not a huge difference in mileage.
The cargo box makes sense for vacations, trips and aerodynamics. I apologize for straying from electrical mods :lol: I don't know why but, the mild off camber trails I have been on makes me question how I will react with that spare up there. I need the bed space but, I may be able to pick up one of my original bad BFGs for next to nothing. Two spares is not a bad thought. 8)
rlrnr53 wrote:The basket looks good! May your ducks have their life jackets on when you start the light wiring.


Thanks :lol: PITA[(?) the animal people] already has me under a microscope. It looks like I have some time to digest all the great info provided. I had some glances at the oem roof rack mounting points when I had the rack off to swap the bows and I think I'll be able to snake the wires needed and keep them hidden.
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Post by HenryJ »

kermit wrote:You're getting close to being the most modded...

WATCH OUT HJ!!!
Hee hee :lol: You'd have to be a fool to mod as much or more than I :shock: I resemble that remark :(

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Post by F9K9 »

kermit wrote:You're getting close to being the most modded...

WATCH OUT HJ!!!
I haven't deducted the shovel and Hi-lift mod that is now history. so only one additional one is on the horizon and that is the aux overhead lights
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Post by HenryJ »

f9k9 wrote:... only one additional one is on the horizon ...
:roflmao: Sure, sure! I though that over a dozen mods ago too :lol:

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:... only one additional one is on the horizon ...
:roflmao: Sure, sure! I though that over a dozen mods ago too :lol:
Let me try to remember your words that ultimately led me down this dark pathImage

It went something like this "Do you think you might want to off road on a recreational basis after what you have done with government rides" (probably not even close but, the intent is there). "I can probably find some skid plates/shields if, you want to return to the dark side" :lol: All I have to do is show Mrs. Hoff that conservative dollar figure on that mod page and I will seal both of our tombs :lol:
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Post by F9K9 »

Well, I started wiring today. I've settled on Brule's idea using the passenger side A pillar for the wiring and a trailer type connection. The rack will have to pull double duty now that I will have the XJ.

I am only doing the rack wiring for now and will do the interior later. I wanted to do the rear/back up lights today and was doing my best to make it look neat, grounding each light to the basket, running a second ground, good connections, liquid tape....etc. I had the rack off of the CC and figured that I better reinstall it before putting the front four lights on it. It is getting heavy with just the mounting brackets for the spare, shovel, lights and jack. I threw it up there and it dawns on me. I have all the wiring headed towards the driver side A pillar :bonk: (note to self, think about stuff when you are working on it upside down :lol: )
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Post by F9K9 »

Pics of lights installed but, not wired yet.

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Post by HenryJ »

I had been debating the addition of lights to my cargo box, but after seeing what you have to lift up there, I would be a wimp if I backed out.

Looks good :mg:

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:I had been debating the addition of lights to my cargo box, but after seeing what you have to lift up there, I would be a wimp if I backed out.

Looks good :mg:
Thank you, Brule! I am probably your best fan and second best at constructive critiques :wink: This is going to a be true interchangeable basket with the XJ. You are hardly a wimp when the lights turns green :wink: I just like to give you grief when it comes to 1/8 or 1/4 times BS!
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Post by BADs Crew »

Looks hot :thumb: I wouldn't want you in my rear view when you had all that candle power fired up. :shock:
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Post by F9K9 »

Okay, I finished wiring the basket up. It is wired into the cab, down the A pillar to the location behind the glove box. I wired a ground strap from the basket to the body. If, I sell the CC all I need to do is remove a panel on the oem ZR5 rack and remove the ground strap and cut the trailer wiring and no mods will be visible.

Image
Image
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Post by HenryJ »

Well done. Unobtrusive and clean. I like how the front part of that rack hides things :D

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:Well done. Unobtrusive and clean. I like how the front part of that rack hides things :D
That is a major compliment coming from you. Thanks a bunch! :D
HenryJ wrote:I had been debating the addition of lights to my cargo box, but after seeing what you have to lift up there, I would be a wimp if I backed out.................
I don't lift all of that on and off. I wish I could. :lol: The tire/wheel combo is almost more than I can handle. :lol: The spare and Hi-Lift come off, without question. On a good day and I am feeling frisky, I will leave the shovel on the rack but, those solid steel brackets for the lights, Hi-Lift, spare and shovel add up. Maybe Vermont Brian can do it all together :wink:
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Post by HenryJ »

How long till we get to see it lit?

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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:How long till we get to see it lit?
That depends on if, I get the XJ that I just made an offer on. The CC's mods will come to a standstill if, I get it. Otherwise, I should put a serious dent in the final work on Tuesday. It looks tight behind the glove box for 3 relays, 3 fuses and the power strips. All the components are here to finish it up. I'll probably ask for guidance on the Hella relays when the time comes.
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Post by rlrnr53 »

That's a nice job! Sometimes it pays to think things through before jumping in. Looks like your ducks are safe for a while.
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Post by F9K9 »

rlrnr53 wrote:That's a nice job! Sometimes it pays to think things through before jumping in. Looks like your ducks are safe for a while.
Thanks! Perhaps they learned that flying south for the winter was a good idea :D
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Post by F9K9 »

HenryJ wrote:How long till we get to see it lit?
Not quite as long as it takes Steve to post. I need to learn more about the camera and apologize for the poor quality of the pics. The lights need to aimed but, I was checking things out. I want the front outboard lights angled out and down for turns and surprises.

ImageImageImageImage

Just need to repeat the whole process on the Jeep to make it interchangeable :!:

BTW, for you deer hunters, that is a horse standing to the left of my mailbox, so, don't get an itchy trigger finger. :lol:
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Post by HenryJ »

That has things lit up really well. Hows the glare on the windshield? Are you going to need a visor?

Taigaters be warned! Looks like you have them aimed to burn the retinas of the approaching vehicle :lol:

Does the alt take a dip when you turn those "Dark Suckers" on?

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Post by WVHogRider »

f9k9 wrote:
HenryJ wrote:How long till we get to see it lit?
BTW, for you deer hunters, that is a horse standing to the left of my mailbox, so, don't get an itchy trigger finger. :lol:


:lol: I can barely even make that out as a horse, and I got 20/20 vision. Nice Job of the rack/lights. :thumb:

Don't worry, the hunting season is over here.. :cry: ..However, :wink: I'm headed for Georgia on Wednesday for the last 5 days of their hunting season, and could swing by possibly... :lol: :wink: j/k.
[size=75]'01 CC w/ a bunch of Mods. More always on the way.
Realization...All women need medication...Just find one on the right medication & make sure she stays on it!!!![/size]