High Volume Water Pump

[F9K9]

Split topic-HJ

.............My point being that if you put a lower temp thermostat in there, 9 times out of 10 the temps will drop.............

Have you tried this with your cooling problems? I've read allot of your posts on the other S-10 forums and You didn't seem so convinced (this is just good natured discussion here and nothing more) that the T-stat was the answer. You mentioned doing a Taurus e fan "how to do" here in this forum. I have also read about your plans for the extra capacity rad (when your warranty is gone) in one of the forums. Are you and I part of that 1% with the high temp overheating problems? The 180° Jet T-stat helped me until it opened up and it stayed open. The temps just keep on building after that.

BTW, just turning off the AC helps in high temp situations HELPS but, you have to turn the heater and fan on high to get any real engine cooling benefits.

Once again, I will state that this is all good natured and I know that you are much wiser than I on the S platform.

[killian96ss]

The 180° Jet T-stat helped me until it opened up and it stayed open. The temps just keep on building after that.

Very good point Reed. It really doesn't matter what temperature t-stat you have because as soon as it opens your temps will continue climbing if it's real hot outside, so a lower temp t-stat is NOT the answer to overheating problems. A low temp t-stat may help a little when outside temps are under 90°, but beyond 90° you will need a high volume water pump, extra capacity radiator, electric fans, etc, to keep the temps from going even higher.

Steve

[F9K9]

..........when outside temps are under 90°, but beyond 90° you will need a high volume water pump................
Steve

I don't know if, an after market high volume water pump is even available for our 4.3s but, I assume that they are if, we share the sb parts. This is where I would need your input, along with Brule's and 2kwik4u's. If, the T-stat is wide open and the water temp is at a point that is where the T-stat is fully open And you are idling/stuck in traffic or running into the pharmacy for meds, will moving coolant faster assist you? Common sense tells me that it will with the e fans.

[HenryJ]

Skip the HV waterpump for the crew cab.

I will agree that it is a part of a performance cooling system. The coolant needs to spend time in the radiator in order to efficiently transfer heat to the air. If the radiator has a very large volume then a HV waterpump is a part of that system.
For instance , my HenryJ has an eight gallon system. A high volume pump makes sense.

For our trucks it would be overkill.

If you happen to change waterpumps there may be a few tricks that will improve flow. Adding a disk to the back of the stamped impeller will mimic the old cast iron impellers. These had much better flow. I've done it to several pumps. Restricting the bypass may have advantages. Our thermostat takes care of that. A high flow thermostat would be nice, but our options with the bypass valve are limited.

BTW. There may be issues in using extended life coolant and HV pumps. The first pumps run with Dex had some cavatation problems.

[F9K9]

Skip the HV waterpump for the crew cab. ................

Thank gawd that is not part of the quest I know that I have read that elsewhere and I am pretty sure that you were one of the authors. I know that I will have additional heat related issues next warm season with the addition of Jigg's front gap guards. Some engine bay heat had to be expelled with the engine bay exposed more after the BL with the stock coverings. Too much water and mud was entering my engine bay. My K&N FIPK was getting hit hard and requiring serious cleaning. I guess it always boils down to "Newton's Third Law of Motion" For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction! This appears to apply to vehicle mods, as well

[crew cab sonoma]

as far as i know, there is not a HV waterpump for any of the 96-up Vortec 4.3, /5.0/5.7 offered.
there is one for 95-older trucks, but that pump is a little different than ours.

but you have to remember that the pump used on the 4.3 is also used on the 350, and is capable of moving enough coolant to hanldle their extra heat volume...

i`ve heard conflicting information about the impeller disks. i`ve read one actuall test of them that claims the disk did not improve pump volume...

also, Advance Auto Parts used to list a Federal Mogul/Carter stock replacement waterpump (part# FP 2326) which was listed at 7.xx lbs. which if accurate, would indicate the pump hsy. was made of aluminum...
most iron hsy. pumps for our trucks are typically listed at 14.xx lbs.

i know... 7 lbs. woopty doo... but im fairly weight consious about my vehicles, but if my truck needed one, and i could find this pump, i would probably buy it...

Advance no longer lists Carter waterpumps. anybody know of another source for them?

[HenryJ]

The disk on the early pumps do help flow. Flowcooler advertises a 60% increase. You can really see it in the radiator when the stat opens. I have used several of them and currently have two. One in the HenryJ and one in the Vega. It is simple to make your own, or buy one from Summit for $6.It looks like it is a gen1 thing and not applicable to our trucks with the reverse rotation pumps.

There is a high volume aluminum pump available from GM performance parts

NAL-12495826 GM Performance Parts Mechanical Water Pumps
Water Pump, Mechanical, Long, High-Volume, Aluminum, Natural, Chevy, 4.3 V6/ 5.0/ 5.7L, Each
Today $169.95

I hate to quote Summit since their descriptions can be flawed.

GM PART # 12495826
CATEGORY: Waterpumps
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $217.00
OUR PRICE: $135.41


DESCRIPTION: PUMP KIT
Aluminum Water Pump "Long Leg Design"



This new aluminum long leg design water pump is used on the new ZZ430 limited edition 350ci engine. It can be used on any late generation one Chevrolet small-block V8 engine. It cannot be used on LT1, LT4 or LS1 design engines.

While the HV pump may not be needed, you can bet if I replace mine I will be using one like this one

I am not sure this is "the" one. Obviously the screw threaded fan will no longer work. That is not an issue for me with electric fans. I also question the rotation. Summit lists it for 1995-2002. GM says gen1. It will require further research.

[killian96ss]

There is a high volume aluminum pump available from GM performance parts

NAL-12495826 GM Performance Parts Mechanical Water Pumps
Water Pump, Mechanical, Long, High-Volume, Aluminum, Natural, Chevy, 4.3 V6/ 5.0/ 5.7L, Each
Today $169.95

I hate to quote Summit since their descriptions can be flawed.

GM PART # 12495826
CATEGORY: Waterpumps
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $217.00
OUR PRICE: $135.41


DESCRIPTION: PUMP KIT
Aluminum Water Pump "Long Leg Design"



This new aluminum long leg design water pump is used on the new ZZ430 limited edition 350ci engine. It can be used on any late generation one Chevrolet small-block V8 engine. It cannot be used on LT1, LT4 or LS1 design engines.

There is an aluminum water pump available for our engines, however according to my 2006 GM Performance Parts catalog part # 12497986 is the correct part # and it will fit 1995-2002 GM V-6 engines. It is possible that part # 12495826 might work since the 2 pumps look very similar, but my GM catalog does not say that it is for late model engines. It is also possible that part # 12495826 is a standard rotation pump and not a reverse rotation pump like we need.

Here is the info from my catalog:

12497986
Aluminum Water Pump, Long Style Serpentine
Reverse-Rotation Pump For Use With Late-Style 1995-2002
Engines With A Serpentine Belt System, Including 90° V-6 Engines



The only down side to this pump like Brule mentioned above is that it will not work with the factory screw on style clutch fan, and I can't find any info that says wether or not this pump is standard volume or high volume.

Steve

[Snoman002]

And electric pump might be a possability.

This again falls along the lines of the electric fans, better than stock at low RPM's but will probably not match the performance of the engine driven pump at high RPM's. Then again I have heard that stock water pumps don't do much above ~3000 RPM.

The other thing that might help is a smaller water pump pulley. Since these engines don't spin very high I doubt there would be issues with over-revving the pump, but it would improve low engine speed cooling.

There are also electric pumps that tap into the heater core lines and result in a slightly higher coolant flow. Not sure this would help at all, but it's a possibility.

Hmmm, I wonder if having the ability to reverse the rotation of the HVAC fan could help at all. Flip the HVAC to heat, reverse the fan, and blow heat out the wiper cowl. Sure it's a band-aid fix, but it's a thought.

[HenryJ]

And electric pump might be a possibility.

They move less than the mechanical pump even at idle speeds. There are a couple that may come close, but they are very expensive and the motors do not last very long in street applications. They are not really recommended for street use.

The other thing that might help is a smaller water pump pulley. Since these engines don't spin very high I doubt there would be issues with over-revving the pump, but it would improve low engine speed cooling.

While true that might be an option, there were problems with early cavatation in these engines. I do not know if it was just the extended life coolant, or if the reverse rotation pump had something to do with it. I am not fully versed in the internal changes in these pumps. It might be possible to spin them faster, but that would accelerate wear and rob horsepower. I am not sure there would be quite enough benefit.

I wonder if having the ability to reverse the rotation of the HVAC fan could help at all. Flip the HVAC to heat, reverse the fan, and blow heat out the wiper cowl. Sure it's a band-aid fix, but it's a thought.

Nice thinking outside the box! I like the effort Sadly the squirrel cage fan does not move air much in reverse. The blades of the cage are turned to create a low pressure zone at the center and expel the air outward. Reversing the rotation will do little more than beat the air. Little or no movement will result.

[killian96ss]

I have seen several electric water pumps that flow way more than the stock belt driven pump at all rpms. Meziere makes some really nice pumps that have an average life expectancy of 2000-3000 hours. The biggest problem with electric water pumps is that when they fail they they fail completely which means it would not be all that hard to overheat and damage the engine if your not paying attention to your temp gauge. Mechanical water pumps don't usually fail suddenly. Several guys in the B-Body & F-Body clubs run high flow electric water pumps with no problems at all, and they easily exceed the rating of the stock cam driven water pumps. A couple of members have even installed pressure sensors with a warning light and buzzer that will let you know when the pump has stopped working. I plan on getting a 55 GPM electric water pump for my SS, but I will likely carry a second pump just in case of a failure. I still don't trust electric water pumps enough to put one on my CC since it is a daily driver and I really don't want one to fail when I'm in the middle of nowhere.

Steve

[rlrnr53]

Early 90's model Caprices with the police package had electric water pumps from the factory. I'm not sure, but I think the practice continued until the stopped production.

[crew cab sonoma]

the stock water pumps can easily achieve 70+GPM at higher engine speeds. aftermarket HV engine driven pumps can exceed 100 GPM...

even if durability isnt an issue, the electric pumps still arent justified for most street driven vehicles.
especially considering how little power they free up, vs. expense for the really good ones.....

i`ve never heard of a production GM vehicle being equipped with electric water pumps...

i know some VW models have used elec. auxillary "booster" pumps, in addition to the mechanical ones. but it just seems they could have built a higher capacity mechanical pump to me...

[killian96ss]

Early 90's model Caprices with the police package had electric water pumps from the factory. I'm not sure, but I think the practice continued until the stopped production.

Maybe you have the cam driven water pump confused with an electric one? I believe all 90-96 B-bodys had the cam driven water pump. I'm not aware of any GM vehicle that had an electric water pump as an option.

Steve

[rlrnr53]

Its been a couple of years since I've seen one, but I do remember at least two and possibly three wires coming out of the water pump. This was on a car with the police package.

[Snoman002]

Camaro-Cooling Mods

Tech-Cooling Systems

Couple links that are good reading. Not sure I agree with everything, but still good reading.

I'm just wondering where he is feeding the coolant to on the back of the block. I suppose you could drill and tap into the cooling jacket on the block, but I'm not sure the casting is thick enough to support threads properly.

[killian96ss]

Its been a couple of years since I've seen one, but I do remember at least two and possibly three wires coming out of the water pump. This was on a car with the police package.

It must have been an aftermarket electric water pump since GM did not install any electric water pumps on any vehicle that I'm aware of. On cars with the LT1 like my SS the stock water pump is cam driven and there are no pulleys. When you swap in a electric pump all you do is remove the guts from the stock pump and then install the electric pump. It will almost look like it was factory installed since you reuse the stock housing and there will be at least 2 wires coming out of the electric pump. I'm 99% sure this is what you saw on the car you are referring to.

Steve

[F9K9]

I'm 99% sure this is what you saw on the car you are referring to.

Steve

I googled the crap out of different combinations for that and only came up with some sort of military/LE experimental vehicle called a SmarTruck II.

[rlrnr53]

After doing a search on water pumps, I see what you are talking about. We didn't have that car too long in the fleet, so we didn't do too much to it. My observations didn't go deep enough. thanks for the information.

[HenryJ]

Adding a disk to the back of the stamped impeller will mimic the old cast iron impellers. These had much better flow. I've done it to several pumps.

Flow Kooler Water Pump Disc

Increase Water Pump Efficiency By Installing A Low-Buck Impeller Disc
By John Kiewicz

In most instances, getting more horsepower from your engine requires "leaning" on it with non-stock performance modifications. Higher compression ratios and bigger-lift camshafts produce increased power, but they also produce added heat as a byproduct. The usual result is overheating, problematic starting and detonation.

Correcting an overheating problem usually involves upgrading the cooling system. Many car crafters go for the big-ticket upgrade items--custom multicore radiators and high-flow race-type water pumps--but they fail to start with the low-buck basics such as determining if the radiator is plugged or if the stock water pump is circulating water at full efficiency. In many instances, the water pump alone is the overheating culprit, because it isn't moving enough water--and the volume of water it is moving cavitates during mid to high-rpm engine operation.

An easy way to solve this is to install a Flow Kooler water pump disc (available from various mail-order outfits) to the backside of the impeller on your stock water pump. The install effort is minimal, the price of the disc is ultra low-buck, and the mod can improve water flow up to 30 percent. Follow along as we install the Flow Kooler impeller disc on the water pump in our Cheap Street Chevelle.
116 9507 Tech 01 Z
1.Remove the water pump from the engine. Begin the upgrade by removing the six bolts that hold the back cover of the water pump on. Once the bolts are out, pull off the back cover to expose the water pump impeller.
116 9507 Tech 02 Z
2.Set the Flow Kooler disc on the impeller, centering it over the impeller shaft hub. Then, using a center punch, mark the location of one of the holes to be drilled.
116 9507 Tech 03 Z
3.Using a 1/8-inch drill bit, carefully drill the first hole in the impeller. After drilling, remove any metal shavings that have accumulated.
116 9507 Tech 04 Z
4.Once again center the Flow Kooler disc on the impeller, then use a Pop rivet (included) to affix the disc to the impeller.
116 9507 Tech 05 Z
5.Using the center punch, mark the next hole to be drilled. Then, just as you did earlier, drill a hole and install another Pop rivet. Follow the same routine for the third (final) Pop rivet. Remove any metal shavings or debris that have built up.
116 9507 Tech 06 Z
6.With the three Pop rivets in place, the Flow Kooler disc will be held firmly in position. Re-install the back cover of the water pump using a new gasket (GM PN 10204452), and you're finished. With the disc in place, the upgrade will prevent water from leaking past the impeller blades, which limits the performance of the pump. The disc increases water circulation and prevents water from cavitating within the pump housing, enhancing engine cooling--all for about five dollars. The discs are available for a wide variety of applications including GM, Ford and Mopar vehicles.

[border man]

Funny you guys bring this post up, this weekend I took the kids camping up to Flagstaff, AZ and began to overheat before getting to Phoenix(35 min away). The valley temps were at about 110-115 when I left. I noticed my gauge went above the 210 mark it usually hovers at to the 3/4 position and above. I stopped at the nearest gas station and had to add water to the system, the resevoir was dry. What I don't get, is that I recently change my radiator and ensured that it was full several days later, including a drive to Yuma, AZ (Even hotter 115-120) with no problems. Where did the coolant go?? No leaks on my driveway, and none at work. As I opened my cap, I had the usual steam surge followed a little later by the gush of coolant out of the fill hole. Is that normal? Could my fan clutch or pump be going?

[04crewvt]

I would check for leaks at the thermostat housing first, it can leak from there and cook off on the manifold,then look at the cap to make sure the seals are still good if not there I would get a pressure check done to make sure you do not have an internal leak.

[border man]

My pump is leaking. I filled the radiator back up today and looked over the engine compartment for any signs of a leak. Just sitting still with the engine off, it was leaking behind the pulley. Gotta get a new one ASAP. Is bosch any good, they list as oem.