Spacer/Wheel Combination Thoughts?

[F9K9]

This question is directed at anyone with "first hand" experience dealing with my particular problem. I purchased 4 US Wheel black Daytona wheel like the ones shown below, 20 months ago. No collisions or general wildness has taken place since they were mounted on my rig.


I recently purchased five BFG A/Ts from Summit and had them mounted and balanced at a shop where I and my former agency, had done business for many years. I was not pleased with all the lead weights placed on the outside of my rim (we are talking almost one half of the rim) and returned the next day to have that cleaned up. While my tires were being rebalanced the owner took me into the shop to observe the movement side to side while facing the tread. He suggested returning them but, did not knock the brand in anyway (He owns Firestone locally).

Anyway, sorry for the long thread, Summit wants locale dealers to do the warranty work (makes sense). The BFG dealer says I have two bad rims (no abuse from me and they were purchased new) and that my rear two inch spacers appear to be way off.

The spacers were purchased from a member that I like alot (he got them locally) and is probably unware that they might be bad, "if" they are.

Whew, the bottom line is............(drum roll)..............could bad spacers alter a

STEEL wheel????

[HenryJ]

This question is directed at anyone with "first hand" experience dealing with my particular problem...

That pretty much slams the door on anyone but yourself to answer the questions.

Since I seem to stick my nose where it doesn't belong...

You need to invest in a dial indicator and a magnetic base. You can pick one up relatively cheap. place it on the spring pack and set the indicator to check the face of the spacer while bolted to the axle, for runout.
Not hard to do and we can talk you through it , Of that I am sure. There are enough knowledgeable people here I'm sure we can.

Now another thing worth checking is to raise the vehicle on stands and watch the tires as it is in gear. See if there is wobble.

This just sounds like an awful lot of things. Tires, wheels, spacers, all bad? I am skeptical (as usual). Did they rotate the tire 180 on the wheels as I suggested?
You need a second opinion.
Topsgt? What about a visit and "looksie"?

Sorry. It just sounds like someone is playing a shell / blame game here. Don't let them play you.

IMO, the spacer could not bend the wheel. Incorrect mounting or damage , perhaps. I'd be tempted to try another tire shop.

Did they spin just the wheel? And show you it was bent? With a tire that far out of balance it would try to wobble the wheel. It may have looked bent when it was just the tire working it. Don't you have a set of stock wheels? Mount those problem tires on those rims , if they won't balance they can not blame your wheels.

[top_sgt]

i agree with henryj.......have them spin the wheel alone....that will tell if the wheel is bent.
next question......did you have the wheels on your truck with your old tires???(and i believe you did) did you have any vibrations then?????

if the spacers are "bad", you would have noticed a vibration along time ago!!!!!!

and with bigger tires....you may need more weight,,,,but not hallf way around the rim.

[jeff024]

you guys are forgettin F is a bit older he most likely doesnt drive over 35mph







Just makin a funny

you might have just got a bad batch of tires

[HenryJ]

...F is a bit older he most likely doesnt drive over 35mph...

Are you saying that the spin balancer is the fastest speeds those tires have ever seen?

[killian96ss]

...F is a bit older he most likely doesnt drive over 35mph...

Are you saying that the spin balancer is the fastest speeds those tires have ever seen?

OMG that was funny!

Reed, I once bought a new set of steel rally wheels for my old 68 impala and 2 of them had a bad wobble even though they were brand new, so it's possible that you are having the same problem. This problem is more common with steel wheels than with alloy wheels. I would try out Brule's suggestions first to see if you can isolate the problem.

Steve

[Steve2003]

Reed, I wouldn't take that sh## off that youngster Jeff....there he goes again being a little smart a$$.

[F9K9]

you guys are forgettin F is a bit older he most likely doesnt drive over 35mph ............Just makin a funny

you might have just got a bad batch of tires

I'm still driving American steel, how's your Datsun? j/k, of course "Grasshopper"

I had the vibration in the "seat" with the Yokahomas before the tire Switch.

The spacers were machined by a "friend" of the Member in his home town (not mine),

The shop that installed the BFGs mentioned both rear tires being badly "out of round". I witnessed the wobble of the tire while the rim/tire was on the balancer and did not think to look at the rims directly. The "home made" spacers are on the rear axle.

We have one very good shop blaming the tires, we have another shop blaming the wheels.

Despite my love of excuses to buy another tool, here are my thoughts. The BFG dealer said they ran it up while off the ground and both rear tire/wheel combos had a bunch of movement, making them to believe the spacers were the culprit.

I clean all surfaces, remount the tires without any spacers. Run it up and observe while tires are off the ground. If, normal movement, I try the spacers and observe. If I had relatively decent movement off the ground w/o spacers, excessive movement with them then I'd try the 1.25" ones on the rear.

Back to the original question which I admit, was unfair. Is it concieveable that flawed spacers could create damage on a steel wheel?

I know alloys are very easily damaged with one pothole. I don't forsee buying what you suggest, HJ. but, see where you are coming from.

I should have performed my proposed tests before posting but, if I need wheels then I wanted to order them ASAP and tonight was not ideal to be performing my proposed tests with t-storms popping up and the heat factoring in.

I just found it hard to believe I had 2 bad wheels unless the spacers where thrown into the equation.

BTW, JEFF024, when you expect it the very least, EXPECT IT!

[jeff024]

[HenryJ]

...I'm still driving American steel, how's your Datsun?

BURNED!

... clean all surfaces, remount the tires without any spacers. Run it up and observe while tires are off the ground. If, normal movement, I try the spacers and observe. If I had relatively decent movement off the ground w/o spacers, excessive movement with them then I'd try the 1.25" ones on the rear.

Good plan. Put all four in the air and try the good wheels in the mix too.

Is it concieveable that flawed spacers could create damage on a steel wheel?

Not in my opinion.

I know alloys are very easily damaged with one pothole.

Broken, yes, cracked even, but not very likely to bend. This depends upon the design. I would say the stock N90 would break before bending.

[Walt]

With my spacers that I sold to Sonoma915 (I think ) One had a slight wobble to it. It was somewhat noticeable at 30 MPH. I used it like that for several months, and it had no effect on the tire (BFG ATKO) at all. No balance issues--nothing. Maybe Sonoma915 can let us know his experience and if he's had it fixed yet.

[F9K9]

Broken, yes, cracked even, but not very likely to bend. This depends upon the design. I would say the stock N90 would break before bending.

I've never bent stock wheels but, I have had several aftermarket alloys bend. I had a set of Fitipaldis put on at Tire Rack in South Bend, IN and the techs advised that it is common place where they have harsh winters and pot holes. I have sent 6 or 7 off to be straightened that were on my 1st gen "eclipse"

[HenryJ]

You are right there are many light weight and spun wheels available that can bend and get bent easily. Centerline draglites are not designed for side loading and many have bent them running them on trucks.

For the stock wheels offered for the crew cab truck , I would see that as unlikely they would bend without an obviously damaging hit.

Steel wheels can be bent. That is the advantage they offer for a 4x4. You can limp in on a bent wheel, or pound it back into shape enough to hold air and continue. That doesn't work for a broken alloy wheel.

[SONOMA915]

With my spacers that I sold to Sonoma915 (I think ) One had a slight wobble to it. It was somewhat noticeable at 30 MPH. I used it like that for several months, and it had no effect on the tire (BFG ATKO) at all. No balance issues--nothing. Maybe Sonoma915 can let us know his experience and if he's had it fixed yet.

I still havent taken those to get machined!! Not enough time in the day.

[Walt]

I don't think you'll have any problems getting them fixed, but after all is said and done, if they can't be, let me know and I'll make it right with ya.

[SONOMA915]

Okay thanks, Im sure they will be okay. Dont sweat it.

[F9K9]

Update

Today I jacked the rear end up, put it jack stands, put it in gear and couldn't tell anything at idle speed, revved it up a little but, by the time I got back there, I still couldn't tell anything. A second pair of hands or a hand throttle would have helped.

I pulled the 2" spacers off and cleaned up the brake drum and my 1.25" spacers and installed them. Put the wheel/tire combos back on and took to the road. I put my mirror on the alledged bad wheel that is on the ground and there was a decent wobble. Put the mirror on the "good rear wheel" and it looked straight and true.

Looks like it might be the wheels AND spacers. I just checked on my order at Summit for the 2 new daytonas and it has been pushed back from 7/8 to 7/23 I can't locate them anywere but Summit that offers them online.

[F9K9]

While looking for an alternative source for the US Wheel Daytons, 15"x7", 4.5"BS w/5x.4.75" pattern I came across http://www.desertrat.com that listed my tire for $133.99. The same tire from summit is listed for $171.33. Shipping from Desert Rat is $80.00 for four tires from desert rat. Summit will hit you for $9.95 for "handling" and $11.00 a tire additional charge. DO THE MATH!

I called desert rat about the daytonas and the person I spoke with tried to call US Wheel and called me back within 5 minutes to advise me that they must be shut down for the holiday.

I suspect they have a new customer and I will cancel my order for the Daytonas from Summit.

Walt..........exercise your powers and move this where needed

[Walt]

Walt..........exercise your powers and move this where needed

As much as I'd love a chance to moderate, I think you've got it in the right place.

[F9K9]

Walt..........exercise your powers and move this where needed

As much as I'd love a chance to moderate, I think you've got it in the right place.

I am usually wrong, with my assumptions But, I suspect these guys are "on track"! What pisses me off with summit is that they bumped a delivery date by 15 days and I did not recieve any notification!

[HenryJ]

...What pisses me off with summit is that they bumped a delivery date by 15 days and I did not recieve any notification!

SOP. Don't count on getting anything they do not have in stock.
I don't know if they have to wait for a quantity before ordering from the manufacturer, or just never follow up after sending in one request.
I will never wait on ta back order from them again. Shop elsewhere.

[F9K9]

...What pisses me off with summit is that they bumped a delivery date by 15 days and I did not recieve any notification!

SOP. Don't count on getting anything they do not have in stock.
I don't know if they have to wait for a quantity before ordering from the manufacturer, or just never follow up after sending in one request.
I will never wait on ta back order from them again. Shop elsewhere.

I already have shopped elsewhere, Brule. If you have another source, feel free to assist me.

BTW, hope your trip was spectacular!

[F9K9]

Update on WWW.desertrat.com

I checked back with Desert Rat tonight on my replacement US Wheel Daytonas, called "Rock Crawlers" by Desert Rat. They took my info, called US Wheel and returned my call in under 5 minutes. US Wheel had my size built and they could be shipped from the factory to me. When I asked the shipping cost I got a figure that was over $120.00 for the 2 wheels shipped from US wheel. My sales rep "Steve" apologized for the shipping costs from the factory and knew I was fed up with Summit but, understood when I balked at that cost.

I called Summit back with the info I had attained from Desert Rat. I initially got a "We don't get shipments for a 2 wheel order from our suppliers" I said that's ok, I need the wheels now and you have delayed my order twice. I need to cancel my order from you. I was put on hold a brief moment and when the guy returned to the line, he advised "Your wheels are enroute".

I just checked my order status with Summit and it changed from "Expected delivery 7/23" to "Ready to Ship on 07/05/06"

We'll see

[F9K9]

Where do all the negative buoyancy waterfowl come from?

The wheels were on the front porch last night when I got home. I trot down to my BFG dealer during lunch today to get them mounted. I am watching them like a hawk from the doorway and I am told that one of the wheels is defective. I am in disbelieve and tell them to take the tire off and put the wheel on the spin balancer by it's self. I then violate every "insurance policy requirement" and walk inside the shop to see for myself! The sucker acted like the the center hole was off center. The tire is still suspect so, I run back to work to grab a N90 wheel to try to show them that the tire is possibly bad as well. Brule, the N90 was warped and verified by running it on the balancer by itself.

I hate to even call customer service at Summit because of their "no return policy when tires are once mounted". For those that order wheels online from now on would be well advised to have them checked on a spin balance machine prior to having tires mounted.

[HenryJ]

Are you doing all this at the same place?

I would want to try them on another machine. That sure sounds like a whole bunch of defective wheels. I have seen a few in my time, but not that many at one time.

Machines are not infallible. I would want to confirm on another machine.

I know , always the skeptic. Just seems like an awful lot of defects. You can not be as hard on yours as I am.

BTW. You must mount them to spin balance them, so there is no way to check without mounting.

[F9K9]

Are you doing all this at the same place?

I would want to try them on another machine. That sure sounds like a whole bunch of defective wheels. I have seen a few in my time, but not that many at one time.

Machines are not infallible. I would want to confirm on another machine.

I know , always the skeptic. Just seems like an awful lot of defects. You can not be as hard on yours as I am.

BTW. You must mount them to spin balance them, so there is no way to check without mounting.

I am doing it at the only BFG dealer in town but, was willing to travel if needed. I witnessed them try 3 different machines. I understand about the tires mounted to spin balance but, you can tell if a wheel is not true by having it spun alone w/o a tire. The last tire is suspect by the dealer and myself but, need a "true" wheel to be sure.

The N90 came off a ZR2.com member so who knows what abuse it took?

Got off the phone with Summit and they were glad to accept the wheel back even if, tire was mounted on it. They wanted to wait to get the old one back before shipping out a new one. I nixed that and told them to credit my account when they got the bad one back. A wheel is going out tomorrow for me.

To beat all, I got the postcard in today from Summit telling me that the original shipment was delayed until the 23rd

I think the bottom line is US Wheel. I am not very impressed so far. If you get on their website US Wheel.com They list Summit and Desert Rat as distributers and if you want a dealer near you then you have to call.

[HenryJ]

Sounds like you are getting things worked out.

Big tires have big balance issues and the chance of being out of round gets higher. It is a risk you take.

33x9.50's were not too bad, but they were also lighter than the 31 inch Geolandars that they replaced.

Just be glad you are not trying to balance a set of 44" Mudders.

The wheel issue concerns me, but I had problems with a porous cast on wheels for my wife's Cavalier. Once we finally found a good set our troubles were over.

Stick with it. It will come to a conclusion.