Backfire, stalling , running rough and no codes

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:53 am

Split topic-HJ

Steve,

I'm starting to have trouble but, I am not throwing the SES light. Yes, the light is working before you ask.

I have noticed lately that when I start it sometimes it sounds and acts like what a carbed engine would sound like when it would backfire through the carb. I walked to lunch came back and it fired up and I took it for a drive. It felt like it wanted stall at green lights.

Does this sound familar?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:46 pm

Reed, I had multiple problems at the same time from failing injectors to fouled plugs. My symptoms were a rough idle with noticeable shaking. These symptoms were most noticeable when idling at stop lights. Your problem doesn't sound like the one I had. You could always pull a plug or 2 and check their condition if you suspect a spark plug problem. Do you have an OBD2 scanner? You can have codes stored without the SES light being on. Your computer also stores freeze frame information that lets you re-view data from the time the failure happened. You can get a decent scanner for $100-$200 brand new and they can help pinpoint problems much easier. Is your truck doing anything else other what you already mentioned?

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:27 pm

killian96ss wrote:Reed, Do you have an OBD2 scanner? You can have codes stored without the SES light being on.

Yes I have a scanner but, didn't know it would copy stored problems. It started up fine after work and acted normal but, I stopped to pick up a set of stock plugs to have on hand.

killian96ss wrote: Is your truck doing anything else other what you already mentioned?

Besides that carb backfire sound that it makes that seems to stop the actual cranking of the engine like a plug fired out of order. This problem has been slowly building and there is no chance of the taylors being hooked wrong.

I can't think of the brand of scanner I have but, it was well over $100. I'll hook it up and reread the destructions that came with it to look into the history.

Someone mentioned bad gas at work so I picked up a fuel additive when I got the plugs.

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep all posted on anything that changes.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:08 pm

I had a chance to scan it today and nothing showed up.

The hard to start problem really did a number on my battery so, I charged it all last night. The red top wasn't fully recharged this morning so, I threw it on 12 amp and it finally hit one hundred percent. So, I figure I have battery problems on top of everything else. I had the alternator and battery tested. Alternator was good and the battery tested good but, needing charging. I explained that it was charged all night and they said to try it again tonite and if, in same shape tomorrow, it would be replaced under warranty.

Well I started thinking (bad, I know

). It started yesterday when I added my booster/compressor to jump it. The abrupt stopping of the cranking and the extra power required could indicate a starter problem and or flywheel problems or it did back when I worked on cars.

Would a low battery create problems in this day of computers and make it want stall when at idle? As late as 1990, I could pull a battery from a running car, take it in the store for the core charge and come back toss in the new battery and go on my merry way.

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:54 pm

in regards to your battery question reed........yes.. a bad battery can cause running problems. the day of taking it out with the car running, and exchanging it, and putting it back are gone. some of the electronic ignition stuff needs 9+ volts to work. some of it less.

i have replaced batterys, when i wrenched, and solved some running problems.

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:25 pm

I have been having about the same problem with my 95 Blazer for the last two weeks. It started missing at idle and at low end. at the high end it was fine. On the first trip to the dealer they changed the spider injection system but it still wasn't quite rite so they ask me to try a different gas. That didn't work so I took it back and this what they checked.

Plug gap. ( I'm running Bosch Platinums)
Check for clogged converter
Check Vacuum
Check distributor shaft
Check fuel pressure
Check for contaminants in fuel
Check condition of PCM ( what ever that is)
Check proper torque on Harmonic Balancer
Check for proper amperage at fuel pump
Check for knock retard
Checked wiring harness for loose or broken wires
Put insulation on heater core lines that where touching 2 spark plug wires.

They never said what they corrected but it is running better. Its still not purring like it use to. but it does have 156000 miles on it. After reading this post It makes me wonder if my plugs are at fault. The Bosch plugs have about 1000 miles on them. What else could they have missed?

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:44 pm

PCM= power control module= computer!!

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:50 pm

BADsCrew, the Bosch Platinums could very well be the problem. I've had bad luck with them in my Crew Cab, SS, and 68 Impala. I've heard they work well in some import vehicles, but they don't seem to work well in domestics. I would stick with the Delco's or NGK's. I run the NGK Iridiums in my SS with good results, but I did have problems with them in the Crew. To be fair though I was having a really bad injector problem at the time which may have fried the NGK's.

I have not totally given up on these plugs for the Crew, so when this set of Delco's wears out, I think I will give the NGK's one more try.

Reed, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? A fuel pump on it's way out can sometimes cause symptoms similar to yours. Make sure that battery is good also.

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:57 pm

BADs Crew, that must of set you back a couple of dollars

How bad was it?

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:07 pm

$800 first trip. Second trip was free.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:17 pm

Reed, Triple check those battery cable connections. A bad connection can cause all the symptoms you describe.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:46 pm

killian96ss wrote: ...........Reed, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? A fuel pump on it's way out can sometimes cause symptoms similar to yours. Make sure that battery is good also.

Steve

No, I don't have a fuel pressure gauge. I am going to check the terminals as per Brule's suggestion, have Advance recheck the battery tomorrow, if, it is bad, have them replace it. If I am still having problems, I'll make an appointment to see how well my extended warranty works and drive some loser malibu for a day or two.

I just wanted to make sure that none of my "mods" could be attributed to the hiccup

Thanks once again to one and all

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:14 pm

I drove a malibu maxx yesterday. I let the better half use the crew while hers was in the shop. I liked it. Lots of power kinda sporty. BUT $25000 !!! NO WAY

f9k9 wrote:
killian96ss wrote: ...........Reed, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? A fuel pump on it's way out can sometimes cause symptoms similar to yours. Make sure that battery is good also.

Steve

No, I don't have a fuel pressure gauge. I am going to check the terminals as per Brule's suggestion, have Advance recheck the battery tomorrow, if, it is bad, have them replace it. If I am still having problems, I'll make an appointment to see how well my extended warranty works and drive some loser malibu for a day or two.

I just wanted to make sure that none of my "mods" could be attributed to the hiccup

Thanks once again to one and all

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:16 pm

Okay, I cleaned the connections this morning after it charged all night. They looked good but, I cleaned them to make sure. Advance Auto tested it and it tested "good battery, needs charged". Went in to the head expert and he had the kid take it in and put it on some large charger/tester. The machine charged it and determined that it was good and fully charged. I asked them to humor me and test it again when it was back in my truck. They ran the test in my truck, cables unhooked and guess what" "good battery, needs charged".

They had not seen that before and got on the phone to have another Optima there by noon tomorrow.

Hopefully this is what the entire problem was

border man · Post by **border man** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm

I'm also hoping that it's the battery Reed

Does your truck get used a lot. Reason I ask, is that although many of you really praise the Optima, i'm not totally convinced. At work, just about every vehicle is equipted with a red top, and well we go through red tops left and right. They don't seem last any longer that the OEM batteries that come with the vwhicles when first arriving. Is it really cost effective?? Just my opinion from my observations. By the way, my $29 wallyworld(love that place) battery has been in my truck for almost two years now, and I consider that very cost effective.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:20 pm

To be honest, Border Man, my red top has been abused quite a bit through my stupidity

I have let it totally drain about five or six times by leaving my laptop turned on, The handheld GPS is almost on 24/7 and the maglite trickle charger is on 24/7

I can't give it a rating due to my negligence so, I don't want to give it a bad rap. Our fleet vehicles got beau coup hard use and the OEM batteries seemed to hold up well but, they were the HD ones with a LE package. Are your crown vic batteries doing ok, since that is the only LE package you guys have (as you explained one time).

I do like the optima warranty

Free replacement within 36 months and then prorated to 72 months. I was concerned about my paperwork (lost it) but AAP said it was accessible through my phone number.

In other words.........the jury is still out on the optimas for me.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:17 pm

Went back to AAP today and had to deal with sa different crew that was on duty. A management type found the red top that was shipped in over night and installed it in the crew. I hit the starter and it just clicked. He rechecked the connections and again, just a clicking sound.

He advised me that he has only had three optimas do that in about five years. He told me that he would give me a yellow top starter/deep cycle and my battery. It was a $50 dollar difference so, I think I did okay. Sit on you hands, Brule

No deep cycle lectures, please.

It started there a couple times fine and again after I grabbed lunch but, tonite after work it gave a little hiccup. It could be due to being started several times and driven under 3 miles or I am still thinking starter.

Well see

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:37 pm

Starter solenoid. Next time it does this try turning the headlamps on manually and see if they dim. If they do not dim, then it is likely that the copper disk in the starter solenoid has fouled to the point of creating resistance. In the old days you could pop the cap , rotate and have fresh contact points. The newer units are sealed, and this is no longer an option.

Personally I would go back to a Red Top battery. The deep cycle is designed to be charged low and slow, the red tops are charged hard and fast. Our alternators need to charge hard and fast. This allows time to cool between cycles. An old generator would do fine trickle charging a battery. This is not the case for an alternator.

I don't know what method of testing they were using, but there are some methods that are better than others. If your starter is in need of rebuilding, your alternator is not far behind. It might be a good idea to have them both rebuilt. I usually go through both of them at or near 100k mi. depending upon conditions.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:40 pm

I do remember the headlight trick, HJ

What happened to you sitting on your hands when you saw the dreaded "deep cycle" rear it's ugly head? I figure that I have a little time if, this battery doesn't cut the mustard. I have been there three times this week. I am going to give them a break.

I have 18K on my cc and that is quite a ways from 100K but, this occurred after my LS-1 fan install. I recall your comment under the LS-1 fan install thread...

HenryJ wrote:Plan on upgrading the alternator.

If, this Battery doesn't work out, I'll switch back. My starting problems may be a combination of many things. It is just to much of a coincidence when the new red top was not able to turn the engine over, to not keep my focus on the starter.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:53 pm

I know you remembered the deep cycle, and regular battery discussion, but some reading this may not. That is why I added my two cents.

The same moisture problem with the contacts in your distributor cap, may have occurred inside your starter solenoid.
I would not be surprised to find a similar mess in there if you cut the solenoid apart.
With the low miles the brushes and bearings may be just fine. Moisture can really mess things up though.
Yours wasn't in a flood , was it?

It might be worth having a shop take a look at that starter. Intermittent problems like a bad solenoid are next to impossible to duplicate in front of a mechanic. The best you can do is eliminate the other suspects and describe the symptoms. Sadly the only way you may know for sure it is bad , would be to wait for it to completely fail. That means being stranded somewhere.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:55 pm

Reed, are you still having the other problems like the backfire sounds and stalling at lights or did that go away after the new battery? I agree with Brule that you would be better off with the red top battery instead of the yellow top.

BTW, get a new starter!

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:01 pm

Might be worth checking that cap and rotor again?

Make sure the housing is not cracked and the contacts are both there and somewhat clean.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:31 pm

killian96ss wrote:Reed, are you still having the other problems like the backfire sounds and stalling at lights or did that go away after the new battery?

Steve

Wasn't exactly like a carb backfire. The cranking stopped abruptly like when the old engines did when there was a carb backfire. It is not like the usual discharged battery cranking slowly and then the clicking sound. It cranks moderately and then hit's a "wall" and stops. I have had no other dying symptoms since that one time. No signs of stalling or whatever as long as the battery is up. MY laptop, gps and maglite charger are not in the equation now.

HenryJ wrote:Might be worth checking that cap and rotor again?

Make sure the housing is not cracked and the contacts are both there and somewhat clean.

Will recheck that in the AM. I threw my charger on the yellow top tonite after I got home. It read 90% charged but, my drive home was over 5 miles.

When the CC is good, it is very good but, when it is bad, it P me off!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:08 am

f9k9 wrote:
killian96ss wrote:Reed, are you still having the other problems like the backfire sounds and stalling at lights or did that go away after the new battery?

Steve

Wasn't exactly like a carb backfire. The cranking stopped abruptly like when the old engines did when there was a carb backfire. It is not like the usual discharged battery cranking slowly and then the clicking sound. It cranks moderately and then hit's a "wall" and stops. I have had no other dying symptoms since that one time. No signs of stalling or whatever as long as the battery is up. MY laptop, gps and maglite charger are not in the equation now.

HenryJ wrote:Might be worth checking that cap and rotor again?

Make sure the housing is not cracked and the contacts are both there and somewhat clean.

Will recheck that in the AM. I threw my charger on the yellow top tonite after I got home. It read 90% charged but, my drive home was over 5 miles.

Well, I didn't get a chance to check anything. Temps dropped into the 40s and rain. I did start the CC 30 times last night. Two times it did that backfire thing but it blew through it and started. This morning it died on me

Once when pulling away from an ATM and again when I was turning left into 55 mph traffic. Had to pry the leather seat out of my levis and didn't take any more chances after that one. Will check all recommended items tomorrow if, the weather is as they predict. If no luck there, will look at the plugs and make an appt for sometime next week.

Post by **Walt** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:48 am

f9k9 wrote:This morning it died on me......when I was turning left into 55 mph traffic. Had to pry the leather seat out of my levis.....

I had a similar incident eariler today when I ran out of gas when trying to cross highway 49 with heavy traffic.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:26 am

wamason wrote:
f9k9 wrote:This morning it died on me......when I was turning left into 55 mph traffic. Had to pry the leather seat out of my levis.....
I had a similar incident eariler today when I ran out of gas when trying to cross highway 49 with heavy traffic.

Well, I am usually described as stupidly fearless but, I knew there was no time to attempt a restart, I had unbuckled and my hand was on the latch. I knew I was gone, but, the little HS aged blonde gal had her act together and kept cool and she braked like a pro

Am glad she wasn't on a freakin' cell phone. I tried to motion her over to express my appreciation of her Escalade driving abilities, maybe call her father to thank him for teaching her or having someone else do it but, she was properly schooled and didn't stop.

No more risky moves until this thing is solved.

border man · Post by **border man** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:26 am

wamason wrote:
f9k9 wrote:This morning it died on me......when I was turning left into 55 mph traffic. Had to pry the leather seat out of my levis.....
I had a similar incident eariler today when I ran out of gas when trying to cross highway 49 with heavy traffic.

Man oh man!! I know the feeling. It happened to me as I was trying to get back on the Interstate during rush hour from the median, I was driving one of our infamous DOGDE hemis. I had a full load(13) illegal aliens in the back, and as I put my front wheels on the pavement, the tranny sliped out of gear so I all got was superhigh RPM's

All kinds of things went through my head.....the funeral, me getting fired....the huge pileup..... the other 13 funerals...etc.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:32 am

It is amazing what goes through one's head

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:38 am

Okay, my plans for today were changed but, I put over 80 miles on it today with a wallyworld trip and to trips to Lowes getting two megaloads of new shingles.

I gave it a good Sea Foam treatment last night and dumped the remainder of the can in the tank. No strange starts or dying on me occurred after the Sea Foam

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:06 pm

This is day 2 after the Sea Foam application. It was flawless for a second day. I dunno what is up with anything anymore

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:30 pm

possibly a clogged fuel injector??? the sea foam may have cleaned it!!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:55 am

Okay, the freakin' gremlins returned this morning when I had a load of fresh meat and frozen groceries

It just cranked slow would almost come to a halt and then would do a regular revolution or two then stop, then repeat the process. Battery was at full charge and it acted the same when I threw on the 500 amp booster. I waited fifteen minutes then repeated the process until it fired up. I haven't had time to jack with it today because I have got to finish getting my roof on!

I'll look at the plugs and stiff if I have time this evening.

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:08 am

Im getting the same thing like a carbed motor with a backfire but mine wont start at all and when it does make the back fire it makes a puff of smoke.

I did wash my motor on Wed. but I have driven my truck all day Thur and fri. morning and all was fine then this morning I get nothing

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:09 am

Reed, did you ever replace that starter?

Steve

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:17 am

jeff024 wrote:Im getting the same thing like a carbed motor with a backfire but mine wont start at all and when it does make the back fire it makes a puff of smoke.

I did wash my motor on Wed. but I have dricven my truck all day Thur and fri. morning and all was fine then this morning I get nothing

I had a very similar thing happen to me once after washing my motor. It kind of sounds like the moisture is condensing somewhere either causing a misfire or possibly fogging up a sensor.

Steve

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:34 am

killian96ss wrote:
jeff024 wrote:Im getting the same thing like a carbed motor with a backfire but mine wont start at all and when it does make the back fire it makes a puff of smoke.

I did wash my motor on Wed. but I have driven my truck all day Thur and fri. morning and all was fine then this morning I get nothing
I had a very similar thing happen to me once after washing my motor. It kind of sounds like the moisture is condensing somewhere either causing a misfire or possibly fogging up a sensor.

Steve

How do I correct this if thats the problem,but like I said I drove it fine for almost 2 days

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:13 pm

killian96ss wrote:Reed, did you ever replace that starter?

Steve

my thoughts too,,reed.....wonder if the starter is dragging???

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:21 pm

check cables for swollen spots, a sign of internal corrosion. Check to make sure they are tight and clean.
Then think about that starter.
Moisture can affect all of the above and create intermittent problems.

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:04 pm

whats our spark plug gap set at?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:07 pm

jeff024 wrote:whats our spark plug gap set at?

Spark Plug Gap 1.524 mm (0.060 in)

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:08 pm

killian96ss wrote:Reed, did you ever replace that starter?

Steve

No, I haven't replaced the starter......Yet!

killian96ss wrote:
jeff024 wrote:Im getting the same thing like a carbed motor with a backfire but mine wont start at all and when it does make the back fire it makes a puff of smoke.

I did wash my motor on Wed. but I have dricven my truck all day Thur and fri. morning and all was fine then this morning I get nothing
I had a very similar thing happen to me once after washing my motor. It kind of sounds like the moisture is condensing somewhere either causing a misfire or possibly fogging up a sensor.

Steve

We've had a lot of rain but, it hasn't been raining hard when I have driven the rig. Now that I think about it, it does act like what engines sound like when washed.

HenryJ wrote:check cables for swollen spots, a sign of internal corrosion. Check to make sure they are tight and clean.
Then think about that starter.
Moisture can affect all of the above and create intermittent problems.

Thanks, I'll do that as well! The moisture idea is really stating to make sense, along with that distributer! They may have just told me they removed the screens. When my gov't ramcharger pulled that, I just popped the distributer cap, hit it with WD-40 and it would start.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:48 pm

f9k9 wrote:The moisture idea is really stating to make sense, along with that distributer! They may have just told me they removed the screens.

If they told you that , they were stretching the truth a little

ours don't have screens.
Ours have two little plastic tubes half closed one way at the top and the other way at the bottom.
If they are plugging up drilling them out is the next option.
That is not your intermittent crank , no crank problem though.

For the rough running be sure to check for a loose contact on the rotor. Some of the cheap ones without the capture block loosen up. This can lead to misalignment and damage to the carbon contact in the cap. All part of inspecting the cap and rotor.

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:45 pm

My problem is solved for now I just replaced my plugs I had the NGKs in it and 1 on the pass. side was missing the electrode so I went to advanced and they replaced all 6 for free they have a 2yr replacement on the NGK plugs so I put the same plugs back in and shes running fine for now.Hopefully thats the only problem

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:40 pm

HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:The moisture idea is really stating to make sense, along with that distributer! They may have just told me they removed the screens.
If they told you that , they were stretching the truth a little ours don't have screens.
Ours have two little plastic tubes half closed one way at the top and the other way at the bottom.
If they are plugging up drilling them out is the next option.
That is not your intermittent crank , no crank problem though.

For the rough running be sure to check for a loose contact on the rotor. Some of the cheap ones without the capture block loosen up. This can lead to misalignment and damage to the carbon contact in the cap. All part of inspecting the cap and rotor.

I have the recommend cap and rotor that was recommended in whatever thread that was. I have the NGKs and the taylors that you are running but, I did just find this

I apologize for the quality but, I think you get the idea. I cleaned them up the best I could but, still no luck in starting!

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:22 pm

Amazing!
Is that thing a yellow submarine? How do you get in that much moisture?

You have lots of work to do cleaning that up. You need to make sure the cam sensor is clean too. I think it is just a hall effect trigger, so it should not have exposed metal. Cleaning out with some electrical cleaner and compressed air should work.
Look for the drains and make sure they are clear. If the connector for the sensor is 12 o'clock you should see a drain at 2 and 8 o'clock.
I can't tell from the picture but is the center contact still in the cap? It should be round and smooth. From that picture it looks like it has broken off and arced a tiny spot. If that is the case there is your starting and running rough problem. You need a new cap and rotor.

That green is the brass oxidizing. Maybe the steel contacts will work better for you? AC Delco is aluminized steel. Did your stock cap work better?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:54 pm

The Stock rotor and cap!

The stock actually looks better after 3+ years compared to the 7 months I have had the aftermarket set.

I really can't see anything like the tubes you are talking about. What was the second best cap and rotor that was finalized for our rigs? I just want to get it to my dealer now. It is under warranty and I already have a very bad feeling about the distributer cap screw mount towards the firewall!

I think that the center contact is intact. Thanks for all the help, everyone!

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:42 am

f9k9 wrote:...I really can't see anything like the tubes you are talking about. What was the second best cap and rotor that was finalized for our rigs?

From the top side they look like 1/4" holes. If you can't see them then they are likely full of junk and need blown out.

HenryJ wrote:So for ratings I would list them like this-

#1 - Niehoff/Borgwarner
#2 - Echlin
#3 - AC Delco/Wells
#4 - Wells Gold/Duralast Gold

The Echlin cap is brass contacts too. If the steel is working better for you , you'll have to go back to AC Delco or Wells.
Do you have that old cap and rotor? If so I would try them to get it to the dealership. Make sure they check the housing and don't try to blame you for over torquing the housing. The cracked housings and locktited screws are a known issue.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:57 am

HenryJ wrote:Amazing!
Is that thing a yellow submarine? How do you get in that much moisture?

Do you wash your engine down a lot? Your first cap & rotor look much better than your new set, although it's obvious there was a moisture problem back then too. Definitely check those vent holes, but also ask yourself where is the water coming from in the first place.

I would bet you could easily get the whole distributor replaced through your extended warranty company. If it were me I would be harassing them right now.

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:53 pm

killian96ss wrote:
HenryJ wrote:Amazing!
Is that thing a yellow submarine? How do you get in that much moisture?
Do you wash your engine down a lot? Your first cap & rotor look much better than your new set, although it's obvious there was a moisture problem back then too. Definitely check those vent holes, but also ask yourself where is the water coming from in the first place. I would bet you could easily get the whole distributor replaced through your extended warranty company. If it were me I would be harassing them right now.

Steve

I've washed the engine maybe 2x and none this year. I have no idea where the water is coming from. I picked up a cap and rotor today but, got a brand named Sorensen(sp) from AutoZone today. I asked for their best but, that is what I ended up with. I'll what until the water problem is solved before getting the Niehoff/Borgwarner again. I need to get it to the dealer that is 20 some miles away. It ran like chit when it started this morning but, it got me to work and back! I threw a P0300 code enroute to work

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:54 pm

have you checked your plugs or is there a chance a plug wire came loose and got burnt I had that happen on my last jeep

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:36 pm

jeff024 wrote:have you checked your plugs or is there a chance a plug wire came loose and got burnt I had that happen on my last jeep

Just got back inside. The plugs are a possibility but, I used a whole spray can of the electronics cleaner, lots of compressed air but there are still spots of green in the distributer that will probably never come out. I put almost a whole pack of the dielectric grease in the wire boots and I put the new cap and rotor on, closed my eyes and turned the key.

Started like it should have

I am gonna push for a new distributer when I take it in to the dealer. My service manager was at one of their other dealerships today so I sent a note home with his wife to get an appointment made this week.

A note on the loctite and this particular brand of cap. I carefully removed all of it and the screws fell into distributer threads. Luckily the rotor came with the rotor screws and the cap screws. I used the extra screws with the loctite on them to just snug up the cap.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:41 pm

If it felt like the hole was stripped, the housing is cracked. Inspect it closely. I think you are indeed in need of a new distributor housing.

When you get it back this time, steal, beg, or borrow a can of cheap hairspray and coat the outside of everything. Cap, wires, coil etc.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:17 pm

HenryJ wrote:If it felt like the hole was stripped, the housing is cracked. Inspect it closely. I think you are indeed in need of a new distributor housing.

When you get it back this time, steal, beg, or borrow a can of cheap hairspray and coat the outside of everything. Cap, wires, coil etc.

I just got an email from the service manager and I laid the groundwork for a new distributor

It goes in wednesday AM and he'll have someting for me to drive.

I really did examine the housing closely and could not detect any cracks but, it's a possibility.

BTW. my wife doesn't know the meaning of any cheap hair products

I guess I'll look for some breck, suave, or the wlamart brand

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:51 pm

My wife is a stylist. I know your pain. The $2 per ounce stuff doesn't work nearly as well and results in... "What the heck is my sculpting spray doing in the garage!"

rick · Post by **rick** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:54 pm

Here is an idea, crank sensor http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _n15690977

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:56 pm

HenryJ wrote:My wife is a stylist. I know your pain. The $2 per ounce stuff doesn't work nearly as well and results in... "What the heck is my sculpting spray doing in the garage!"

This keeping the truck running along with silly things like a roof on the house and heatpumps going belly up is really detracting from important things like fine tuning my Skidz flares and moving my IAT

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:03 pm

rick wrote:Here is an idea, crank sensor http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _n15690977

There are a couple nice things in that article:
Disconnect the MAF and run it with the substituted values. If there is a considerable improvement, clean or replace the MAF.

The easiest method used to check any thermistor, such as the Air Temperature Sensor, is to let the vehicle sit overnight. Before starting, hook up a scan tool. All thermistors such as ECT, ATS and TFT should read the same ambient temperature.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:06 pm

Afraid my OBDII scanner isn't quite up to that but, it is food for thought!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:08 pm

The dealer kept the crew so, I am hoping that it is due to them not having a distributer in stock. JR, the service manager advised me that there were "kits" for the problem and that the the full-size PUs were hit hard with the same thing. I left a copy of the service bulletin on my seat and hinted that I would prefer a new distibuter. Time will tell

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:43 pm

Service Manager called me today and advised me that my extended warranty company wants to send an inspector to see why a truck with 19K miles needs a new distributer. He waited until a new one arrived to get approval. He feels that once a ground inspector and not an office type sees it, that it would get approved but, if not, he's putting in the new one and charging the costs to GM anyway. I panicked and asked about the mods and he advised me that they all have no affect on the current problem.

I was hoping to stay under their radar but if, this inspector is worth his salt, my truck will be flagged somehow in their system to be heavily modded. Oh well, S**t happens

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:08 pm

Reed, are you already beyond the factory warranty? The way I see it GM should be covering the repair costs, not your extended warranty company. I wouldn't worry about your truck being flagged because of some modifications and I certainly don't think your truck is heavily modded. Neither GM or your extended warranty company can refuse to fix something because you have mods on your vehicle. The only way they can refuse to pay for something is if the aftermarket part directly caused the failure. You probably already knew that, but I though I would mention it anyway.

Did you ever figure out where the water was coming from and how it got into the distributor? I wash my engine down 3-4 times a year with hot water and dish soap and the inside of my distributor still looks new.

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:51 pm

killian96ss wrote:Reed, are you already beyond the factory warranty?

Yeah, the factory warranty is over because of the time. I bought it in May of '04 with 600 miles on it and previously untitled. Where ever it was in May of '02 the dealer that had it, started the clock ticking by charging a power window switch to the warranty. My current service manager has carfaxed it and provided copies. GM intranet info varifies all of this info.

From what we can determine the truck was in the inventory of a dealer that folded. GM picked up the dealer's inventory and it ended up here at a dealership. I was at the dealership stupidly looking for a trade for my '97 ZR2 (60K) when I saw the crew. I hate yellow but, the price tag was $17,000 for a $27.000+ truck with 600 miles on it.......I bought it.

killian96ss wrote:Did you ever figure out where the water was coming from and how it got into the distributor?...

Other than the vents being clogged with debris...................no.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:05 pm

Absolutely no update here from the dealer and American Guardian Extended warranty. I am not going to to bother my dealer's service manager (he has my ph numbers and email address and is kind enough to use them) but if, AG hasn't found the time to have a company rep to look at my CC then they have paid six extra days for an Enterprise rental for no reason. Next time, I will not go out of my way to buy a premium distributor cap, rotor, install them and save them a 30 mile rollback wrecker fee

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed May 03, 2006 3:09 pm

Update! Got a call today from my service manager that the CC was ready. It was too close to their closing time for me to make it but, I will in the AM.

I need to try to compile info on these extended warranties for members and future questions about them. The guy that visited my dealer did not tell the service manager squat. He looked at my CC, verified mileage and was gone. Be advised that my service manager is on first name speaking terms with the owner of my extended warranty company and the owner comes to get him to fly to these ridiculous left hand turn only races.

The warranty inspector is contracted and may work for several firms. Kinda like a warranty PI

The warranty Private Eye must have faxed my warranty company to approve the repair after he looked at my CC on MONDAY

It has been aggravating but, with this repair, the stereo and the rentals from Enterprise, I have almost doubled my returns that I invested in the extended warranty.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed May 03, 2006 4:13 pm

f9k9 wrote:It has been aggravating but, with this repair, the stereo and the rentals from Enterprise, I have almost doubled my returns that I invested in the extended warranty.

My extended warranty has paid out about the same for me.

It can be a real hassle sometimes, but if you know the repair bill is going to be higher that your warranty deductable then you should always let them pay for it.

I paid nearly $1400 for my 72 month 100k mile extended warranty and they have already paid out $2900 so far for GM dealer repairs.

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed May 03, 2006 4:59 pm

killian96ss wrote:
f9k9 wrote:It has been aggravating but, with this repair, the stereo and the rentals from Enterprise, I have almost doubled my returns that I invested in the extended warranty.
My extended warranty has paid out about the same for me. It can be a real hassle sometimes, but if you know the repair bill is going to be higher that your warranty deductable then you should always let them pay for it. I paid nearly $1400 for my 72 month 100k mile extended warranty and they have already paid out $2900 so far for GM dealer repairs.

Steve

It is a crapshoot at the time you are under the gun at a dealer when buying a new vehicle. Luckily, I deferred purchasing the warranty at the time I bought my CC, The financial gal that did my original paperwork reminded me that I could wait to purchase an extended warranty before the manufacturer's ran out. I was misquoted my expiration "date" on my warranty as two months later than it actually did but, GM was willing to work with that.

When I did purchase my extended warranty I got a very good deal and was very lucky that the agent backdated the purchase 30 days before the factory one ran out. That 30 day thing was never mentioned beforehand. If I had bought an extended warranty on my '97 ZR2, I would have lost on that deal. An alternater, front pads and tires was all I paid for in 65K miles.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:51 pm

Picked up my school bus yesterday morning. Distributer was replaced. A "stripped distributer mounting bolt" was mentioned. I suppose that they were referring to the distributer cap screw threads but, am not sure. My cost was $0. I am just glad to have it back

Drove back to my town great but, the time spent in the enterprise malibu made me aware of the tire/wheel/vibration in the crew that was unnoticed before I spent a week away from it. Time to clean the metal surfaces between hubs and spacers and a tire balancing job if, no one is interested in buying some cheap Yokohamas