Lower Ball Joints!!

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:39 pm

well now....i'm feeling more and more like a part of the crowd!!!
i went to do the torsion bar crank this afternoon and thought i'd check my ball joints while i had the truck on stands. my lower ball joints are loose!!! and being a mechanic in my younger days...they are "really loose" in my opinion!!
called the dealer and they said bring it in tomorrow and they would check it out. well.....i couldn't wait!!!! i did the t-bar crank,, and took the crewcabto the dealer. we'll see what they say tomorrow!!!
i'll keep ya'll posted!!!!!! by the way,,,,the uppers seemed ok!!!(for now!)

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:56 pm

How many miles on your crew, David?

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:01 pm

only 21,000 miles!!!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:17 pm

top_sgt wrote:only 21,000 miles!!!

and I know only limited off roading..........................other than going to park to go hunting.

Some serious faults here in the very basic design. I want to stick with my crew but, already I have visited the jeep site, toyota site and eyeballed rubicons this part sunday when I knew the lot lizards were not working. (Yes, I know "lot lizards" is also a term used for ladies that frequent truck stops but car salesmen were referred to as "lot lizards" where I grew up.)

Such a shame I am having these feelings especially when I have my sliders being built (and half paid for), commited to that third set of flares and possibly the wrong electric fan that I called dibs on and feel that I have to keep my word on.

I'm gonna stick it out as long as I can

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:44 pm

Dont feel bad F9 I to have looked at yotas / dakotas/the new mitsu Raider and the frontier its not that I dont love my truck the problem I have is a 6yr loan the trucks almost 19months old and I will turn 86000 miles tomorrow and so far no major problems(knock on wood) the biggest being my gas tank leaking im just worried when something does happen it will snowball but I will have the CC till I get the deal I want.

TEXS10 · Post by **TEXS10** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:13 pm

Man-o-man, Hey guys just like I stated before should I sell this truck before I do any mods on it (body lift, T/B crank, new tires, etc). The toyota's look dam good, but I bleed RED,WHITE,BLUE, CHEVY. I have had 3 Z/71's, a 98 stepside regular cab, a 94 & 98 x-cabs, and when I sold them they were in mint condition, now I can kick myself in the A_ _ for selling either one of them. Please guys tell me the truth are these trucks worth holding on to or not ??? top sgt I will be waiting on what you have to say tomorrow. Is it like a rock that sinks or soild that will be around forever????

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:15 pm

Ball Joint Inspection
Tools Required

J 8001 Dial Indicator

Important
* The vehicle must rest on a level surface.
* The vehicle must be stable. Do not rock the vehicle on the floor stands.
* The upper control arm bumper must not contact the frame.
1. Raise and support the vehicle.
2. Support the lower control arm with a floor stand or jack, as far outboard as possible, under the stabilizer bar bracket.

Important

If a seal is cut or torn, replace the ball joint.
3. Clean and inspect the ball joints seals for cuts or tears. If the ball joint seals are damaged, replace the ball joint.
4. Check the wheel bearing for looseness. If looseness in the wheel bearing is present, refer to Wheel Bearings Diagnosis .
5. Check the ball joints for horizontal looseness.
1. Position the J 8001 dial indicator against the lowest outboard point on the wheel rim.
2. Rock the wheel in and out while reading the dial indicator. This shows horizontal looseness in both joints.
3. The dial indicator reading should be no more than 2.00 mm (0.080 in). If the reading is too high, check the lower ball joints for vertical looseness.

Notice
Do not pry between the lower arm and the wheel drive shaft boot or in such a manner that the ball joint seal is contacted. Damage to the wheel drive shaft boot will result (4WD).

6. For 4WD vehicles, place a J 8001 dial indicator against the spindle in order to show vertical movement.

7. Pry between the lower control arm and the outer bearing race while reading the dial indicator. This shows vertical looseness in the lower ball joints. The lower ball joint may show some looseness.

8. If the dial indicator reading is more than 3.18 mm (0.125 in), replace the lower ball joint.
9. If the lower ball joint is within specifications, and there is too much horizontal looseness, check the upper ball joint for wear.
1. Disconnect the upper ball joint from the steering knuckle.
2. If you find any looseness or can twist the stud with your fingers, replace the upper ball joint.

Don't be suprised if the "slop" is within spec. 1/8" allowable is quite a bit.
Mine had .130 and .160 when they were replaced under warranty.

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:09 am

the dealer called me this AM....said everything was OK!! ball joints , tie rods, all steering parts OK> i'll be sure to ask them how much play was in the joints. and they did do the alignment for my t-bar crank. so.....before it turns over 39,000 and goes out of waranty....they'll check them again. or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i may just replace them next summer myself!!!!

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:44 pm

Don't let them BS you. Get the alignment shops print out showing the amount of play in the balljoints.
A visual inspection is not enough. Print out the quoted post above if needed. Or check them yourself if you have access to a dial indicator.

From experience:

HenryJ wrote:Warranty issues so far...
You have to really watch the Tech's! I had to talk to the Service manager to get them to replace the lower balljoints!

I had already checked them finding .130 horizontal slack in the right side and .160 in the left. Maximum allowable is .125.

After they inspected the truck I asked what parts had been ordered, they said one wheel bearing and after my asking why the bad balljoints were not being replaced they said that they were fine a wheel bearing was the only thing they found. I KNEW BETTER! So I was refered to the service manager, who said that they probably had not checked them and would have to send it out to an alignment shop to check the ball joints, they do not have a rack for checking them. (Total BS! ) It does not require a "rack" to check ball joints. What they did not know is that I had already gone to the alignment shop to confirm the readings I got using a dial indicator at my shop.

So, after explaining this they ordered the parts.

Moral of the story: do your homework and do NOT assume that they know what they are doing or will do the right thing , just because they work for a GM dealer.

HenryJ wrote:Lower Ball Joints
You have to hit them with the numbers.

The maximum allowable is .125 which is 1/8 inch. That is quite a bit but mine exceeded that.

They will tell you that the measurement can only be taken on an alignment rack, but that is incorrect.

GM's own manual shows the correct procedure for using a magnetic base dial indicator to check them.

Basically you need to use a bottle jack to raise the tire off the ground using the lower a-arms as close to the ball joint as possible. Park near a fixed pole that the dial indicator can be attached. Zero the indicator on the lowest point of the wheel rim. Then push in and out at the top and bottom to get the horizontal run out.

If you don't have a dial indicator, you can get a rough estimate by having a friend hold a tape measure to a fixed object while you move the wheel back and forth. If it comes close to the 1/8" , get it checked at the alignment shop. Anything exceeding the .125 inch maximum allowable freeplay, should be replaced. It is a safety concern, not to mention the wear on the tires.

I'm in the process of getting mine replaced right now, but there is a nationwide backorder and I've been waiting two weeks so far.

The dealership called yesterday, I'll return the call today, hopefully they are in.

P.S. Watch those wheel bearings too. My LH wheel bearing is bad and being replaced at the same time (28,000mi.). There is no permissible runout for wheel bearings. Any horizontal movement means they are bad. Mine were noisy with a side load during cornering too.

top_sgt · Post by **top_sgt** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:35 am

from what i saw on the printout at the dealer.....i had less than .1 movement in each joint. the wheel bearings seem ok now.....but i will watch them as well. i still have miles left on my waranty...and may get an extended waranty after the first of the year. so.... before it goes out of waranty...i'll check them myself...then take the truck to the dealer and complain about it again.
the guys at hatfield seemed straight up with me, didn't seem to bs with me. the alignment guy showed me the specs on the alignment computer then showed me my printout!! i haven't told them i was a mechanic. i'll wait and throw that trump card when i need it!!!!

so... i'll keep driving and watching!!!
thanks for all the input, though!!!!

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:48 pm

Sounds like you did just fine