How much lift really?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:58 pm

How much lift do you get from the Superlift 6" kit?

Are the drop brackets 6" and then you add the addition of tire size for the total lift?

Is the lift X" of drop brackets + X" torsion bar crank = 6" lift?

Is the trailmaster 5" kit done the same way?

What about BDS?

If (fill in blank) lift has 3" drop brackets, 1" torsion bar adjustment , is it a 3" or 4" lift?

What if you count the tires? Say 33" tires. That is 4" larger than the optional stock 235's that are 29" tall. Is that another 2" of lift?

Overall I would see a 2" body lift and 31" tires as 3" taller than stock. Yet this only increases ground clearance by 1"

Perhaps that is the real standard by which to judge, ground clearance. The only problem there is that tires are the only way to change that for both the front and rear.

Thoughts?

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:19 pm

The trailmaster is 4 inches upfront, you should be able to just measure what the diff and sway bar drop brackets are.

The t bar crank got me up another bunch. Also something i noticed that im not sure is in my head or not but when i had the t bar relocators on my truck with cranked t bars my truck was actually even taller. it seems like the relocators loaded the t bars more and to proce this my cvs were at really really bad angles when i saw a comparisn ahwile back when someone posted bds cv angles on there truck with the t bar crank. i dunno might be just me or how they were installed. sorry to get off a bit there. In terms of ground clearence after the lift ( no t bar relocators) i was at i think 15 inches with 35s. Im at like 20 something with sfa at the frame

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:24 pm

Wheels and tires are the ONLY way to gain ground clearance alone if you are looking at the rear differential only.

The BL, TB cranks, shackles and SLs will give you better approach and departure angles but, even a SFA will limit you to both differential heights from the ground for your ground clearance. I sincerely believe that in most off road wheeling that a little caution will take you places that you would think were impossible to traverse. I have had military hummers (no differentials hanging down) with inexperienced drivers get stuck following me in a stock tahoe.

The vast majority of our members use our crews as daily drivers. Larger wheels and tires equals more expense and less reliability from what I have seen. Much bigger and then you need to regear and it becomes a hobby and not a daily driver.

I like the thought of a little lift but, need reliability foremost.

Just a couple of my thoughts offhand.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:00 pm

bubaloo1983 wrote:The trailmaster is 4 inches upfront...

So 1" of that kit is a TB crank then? Or does the 31" tire size recommendation make up the other inch?

f9k9 wrote:...The vast majority of our members use our crews as daily drivers. Larger wheels and tires equals more expense and less reliability from what I have seen. Much bigger and then you need to regear and it becomes a hobby and not a daily driver.

I like the thought of a little lift but, need reliability foremost.

Absolutely.
As with any modification that YOU make, YOU must consider the pros and cons. Everything is give and take. I like to find the sweet spot where form and function balance pretty closely.
I already have a "hobby" car or two in the garage, there is no way I want to compromise my truck to become a weekend driver.
Now if a few inches of lift costs a mile per gallon loss in mileage is it worth it? That is something to consider. Only real world testing will say for sure.

Now back to the topic on hand.

I really am wanting to know how all the manufacturers are measuring their lifts.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:08 pm

HenryJ wrote:I really am wanting to know how all the manufacturers are measuring their lifts.

Contacting them is one way, getting their kit instructions is another but, you may run smack dab head on into a situation similar to my mystery Z height trim measurements from the corporate headquarters of GM

bwenny247 · Post by **bwenny247** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:47 pm

BDS is a 5" front/4.5" rear lift

but, if the lift is equal to the front sway bar drop brackets then it's only 4.5" up front, leaving .5" up to some other component???? don't know, i'll try calling BDS tomorrow or maybe Big-E can help us out here.

tires are the only way to get the diffs off the ground further. right now roughly, I've got 10 3/8" clearence on the rear diff, 13" to torsion bar skid, 11 1/2" to the front diff skid, 17 3/4" to the lowest point i found on the frame. no torsion bar crank here

Jeggers or steve could you get us some measurements for the SL to these points and the front sway drop bracket measure?

all added up susp. lift, body lift, and tires would put me about 9" taller than stock. i didn't take before and after measurements and i wish i would have just to see how much lift was gained with the stock tires still on it

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:00 pm

f9k9 wrote:Contacting them is one way, getting their kit instructions is another...

There are no dimensions in the instructions, and the corporate "answer" is the named measurement. That is why I went straight to the source...owners.

Thanks bwenny247 , that's the stuff I'm looking for

That sway bar bracket may just be 1/2 inch higher than the drop brackets. Having the sway bar a little higher won't hurt anything.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:22 pm

I think what HJ is asking is the difference in lift with the SLs and precisely how do they measure their lifts.

The concept of a lift to an off road wheeler is the lowest point that his/her rig is to the ground. Jam it up up with a SL lift 6" and keep the stock tires and the differential is still sitting at the same distance from the ground

Throw on 33s with all the lift you want and you are still only gaining 2.25" of clearance on the differential. I think the issue is cosmetics at this point.

Coffee is doing something about the second reason we are getting stuck on an obstacle. He has radically changed his approach and departure angles.

Personally, I know I can approach an obstacle and keep my differential out of the equation in most applications.

Ground clearance would be in the world of a2b and I would leave that up to him to weigh the benefits.

For a daily driver and the fuel costs, I would be happy with the lift that would handle 31/10.50 15s:D

Just my thoughts on the matter

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:41 pm

A body lift is a lift , right? Spring lift is a lift, right? Adding larger tires, is that a lift?

Larger tires do add ground clearance and improve break over angle. A body lift improves approach and departure angles. A suspension lift improves approach, departure and with the addition of t-bar relocators the break over angle.

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:50 pm

when you see the specs on stock trucks they measure from the lowest point to get the clearence which is usually the pumpkin on the rear axel. stock at the axel we are 7.5-8 in

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:52 pm

HenryJ wrote:A body lift is a lift , right? Spring lift is a lift, right? Adding larger tires, is that a lift?

Larger tires do add ground clearance and improve break over angle. A body lift improves approach and departure angles. A suspension lift improves approach, departure and with the addition of t-bar relocators the break over angle.

I don't consider a body lift by itself to be a "real" lift. All you are doing is making room for bigger tires which give some lift. As for the approach and departure angles, you might gain a little by moving the bumpers up but, at least on our trucks, that frame is still hanging down there.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:14 pm

f9k9 wrote:Personally, I know I can approach an obstacle and keep my differential out of the equation in most applications.

I agree. The problem that I run into is the fullsize width ruts from those guys running 35" tires or larger. Most of the time you can straddle them, but at times one side must drop in since I am so much narrower. Tire height is where it is at. The 31's do a good job.

Rusty wrote:...I don't consider a body lift by itself to be a "real" lift. ...that frame is still hanging down there.

The expert on break over angle-

Bigger tires and/or suspension lift are the only things to improve break over angles.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:48 pm

Gotta love the expression on that pic. A pic is worth how many words? Mostly ^*&%&^$%^$

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:49 am

On IFS kits the way to measure the true lift is to measure the distance that the lower control arms are dropped. With the BDS that measurement is exactly 5". This means that if the torsion bars are adjusted to the same setting they were before the lift is installed you will be exactly 5" taller (overall truck height) then when you started. On top of that add half of the tire diameter increase made to get your final height increase. 5" lift and going from a 30" to a 32" tire will give a net of 6" of overall lift (and a 1" increase in ground clearance). A torsion bar crank will increase your overall height as well as your ground clearance at the front crossmembers since the height is obtained by increasing the lower control arm angle.

Sway bar drops and differential drops rarely equal the total lift height. Compromises are made here (mostly in the differential drop) to aid in other areas. For example, if you drop the diff. the full 5" the CV axles will be at the factory angle but the front drive shaft will be in a bind. Dropping it 4" would help the drive shaft angle and still allow the CVs to operate in a normal working range.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:08 am

Somehow, I just knew that pic was going to surface in this thread eventually!

jeffc · Post by **jeffc** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:15 am

ok so everyone knows putting a suspension lift or body lift doesn't increase the ground clearance of the axles. the only thing that does that is a larger tire. now to fit a larger tire you need to make room for them and that is where the lift kits come in. i always looked at lifts as a way to fit the larger tire without rubbing or have a truck the looks "over tired". yes the superlift gives you 6" of control arm lift...with out cranking the t-bars anymore that they were stock. thats kinda the idea of paying for the lift kit...you get a specified amount of lift and yet your truck still has the stock frontend angles. yes you can crank the t bars just as much with a lift as you can with a stock truck but then that defeates the purpose of buying a nicely designed kit....unless your just going for the most lift possible and you don't are about driveability or reliability. if your trying for the most lift possible....well you shoudn't have bought an s-10....try a ford superduty!

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:08 pm

Jeffc

I agree with everything that you wrote. I also have the 6" Superlift, but I think your missing the point. What I believe HJ's getting to is how to lift our trucks to fit bigger tires without having to spend all the money on an expensive suspension lift. The way I see it he's on to something and he's just throwing out food for thought. Just IMO

Steve

bwenny247 · Post by **bwenny247** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:24 pm

steve:

rockers look good man

*sorry back on topic now*

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:31 pm

Ben

I told you I was going to steal some of your mods

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:47 pm

Steve2003 wrote:...The way I see it he's on to something and he's just throwing out food for thought.

Well maybe partially

I do honestly want to know how the "rate" the lift though.

It really wouldn't be fair to boast a lift kit as having 9.5" of total lift? Or would it?
That one would be a 2" bodylift, 6" suspension lift, and 32" tires.

I do see mine right now as being been lifted 3". A 2" BL and 31" tires did lift it to the same height as the ZR2's. They are advertised as 3" higher than a non-Z. One inch of their lift is the bigger tires.
I'm actually an inch higher than a stock ZR2 since I adjusted my torsion bars upward.

So how would it be fair to measure/rate/call a lift?

Obviously you can state all the components , the various amounts of lift they yield, total height increase, and ground clearance. It just easier to say the X" name lift.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:07 pm

It's all in the definition and just to measure things universally and to simplify things, let's settle one your last definition as being the forum's "standard"

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:33 pm

Sometimes simple is not the best answer, huh?

You're probably right just listng the various methods incorporated in the complete package is probably the best.

So is the consensus that the SL 6" is 6" drop bracketry. The TM 5" and BDS kits use 5" drop bracketry.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:00 pm

I concur

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:19 am

6" sl
front 6"
rear 5"(i have a 1" lift shackle)
front diff skid 12.5" clearance
t- bar drop brackets 12.5" clearance
reae diff 9.5 " clearence

Now i have ajusted my tb a little , at first the were low and i was bottoming out, so they may be little over stock like .25 at the most. now total lift is 9.5 measured at say the roof. if i had so do it again i would have gotten the sawzall out and went to town added the bl and shacle and tb crank and still went with the same tire and wheel combo.

but realy why do most of do these mods???? we want the truck to look big. these trucks will never be hard core offroaders with the stock stuff.

that is fact, but some small mods and some 31's and you could do ok. now i had an 01 with 31's and this time i wanted more.

now off topic hj when are going to let the cat out of the bag...... can i gues fiberglass fenders and custome longer a arms?????

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:18 am

???????