Balljoint failures

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm

I am wanting to gather some data on balljoint failures.

There are lots of stories of lousy ball joints and I want to see if tire size really plays any part in this. What I want to know is what tire size you were running when you had a failure. The brand of ball joint, and any modifications that you think may have contributed to their demise.

In my case I was running the stock ball joints they were two years old with under 20k miles on them, when the lower ball joints needed to be replaced. I had been running 31x10.5-15 Geolandar M/T's for the last year and had a pretty good T-bar crank. Enough to level the front with the back.

I feel it was the design of the balljoint itself that was to blame, and the newly upgraded balljoints were installed in their place.

I don't push things very hard and air down when offroading to help soften the ride and abuse transfered to the suspension.

I am still running 31x10.5-15 Geolandar A/T's and have had no further ball joint problems in the last 30k miles.

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:18 pm

This is an excellent topic to bring up, seeing as how I also had to replace my ball joints recently. I believe you are right that it's the stock ball joints that are the problem.

I got 36,000 miles and 2 years on my stock ball joints. My lower one's went out and my upper one's were on the way so I had them both replaced. I believe they may have been going bad for awhile, even before I did my lift and had my 31x10.5 tires put on. Also, the new rims I put on with a 3 3/4 backspacing probably didn't help matters either.

Another contributing factor may be my steep driveway, when I turn into it my wheels are turned as I am going up the driveway. My truck starting pulling to the right really bad and my front wheels looked like they were pigeon toed, kind of like a baja bug the way they sit in at an angle.
I never did very much serious off roading, a little bit of light off roading.

Everything is good so far since I had everything replaced with Moog ball joints.

Steve

bwenny247 · Post by **bwenny247** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:13 pm

bought my truck with 48,000 miles on it and the lowers were toast. I made the dealer replace both upper and lower joints, balance/rotate the tires, and allign the front end before i would sign on the dotted line. this was with the stock 235/75/15 Goodyear RTs and whatever the previous owner did with them. I've got 12,000 miles on the new joints and haven't had any problems.......yet.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:21 pm

bwenny247 wrote:...I've got 12,000 miles on the new joints and haven't had any problems.......yet.

What size tires, wheels, and modifications are you running now?

bwenny247 · Post by **bwenny247** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:53 pm

sorry henry:

I'm running 33X12.50 MT's, 15X8 rim with 3 3/4" backspacing, steering stabilizer (don't know if thats supposed to help BallJoints???).
I've got about 5,000 Miles on the new Balljoints with the lift and tires and 7,000 or so with the stock setup.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:04 pm

What kind of driving do you do? Rough offroad, mud, rocks, off camber? Or is it mostly street driven?

If you regularly do some "rough stuff" do you air down?

Pauleo · Post by **Pauleo** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:30 pm

I bought my rig with 37000 miles & had to have the ball joints replaced within a couple months after purchase. That was with the stock tires & no mods. I now have 50000 miles on the truck with 30x9.5 tires, T bar crank & factory spec wheels. I have noticed a slight rattle a couple of times in the last few days. The kind of rattle I had before the ball joints were replaced. I have yet to get under there to check things out. I guess I was just hoping that it was just my imagination!

Oh yeah. I haven't done any off roading to speak of. Just a little bit of driving through some unused muddy farm land a time or two.

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:52 am

my lowers were loose at 7k when the lift whent on . i had 10 free oil changes and the dealer failed to lude the chassy. i think that had some thiong to do with it. there are 12k now and they are a little bad. 6" sl and 32"s

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:11 am

I had stock ball joints till 71k miles. I'm selling the whole front chunk with new ball joints, cv shafts, etc. I'd take offers!!! My adds in here for $300, but make me an offer!!! 3.73 gears!

Blaze One · Post by **Blaze One** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:38 pm

I have 89000 Miles on my 99 blazer . I am the second owner and I am sure the balljoints have not been replaced . I had a dealership inspect it for a trade in value and they said I needed new ones upper and lower. I don't have very precise steering and it's kinda sloppy . I had the pitman and idler arms replaced and it helped the play in the steering abit . I run stock tires with no lift . I am sure once i replace the joints and get new shocks it will feel like I am driving a new truck .

what balljoints should I have them replaced with ?
And maybe this could turn into a thread about making the front ends of the trucks stronger . I just hate it when people with there tacos tell me I am driving truck with a front end made outa toothpicks !

jajwrigh · Post by **jajwrigh** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:58 pm

I have notice a loud "chatter" in my front left tire area. It happens only when I go over bumps. Could this be ball joint failure? I want to know who makes aftermarket uppers and lowers. Looks like its time to order a Helms manual...

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:22 pm

I'm with jajwrigh- whats a good heavy duty replacement? I have a strange wobble when I hit a bump in the pass. front. Its a little scary so I'd like to get it done soon. Good thing I don't drive it every day!

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:25 pm

chumley wrote:I'm with jajwrigh- whats a good heavy duty replacement?

From what my local lift shop told me and what I've read on other S10 forums, Moog ball joints are the best. That's what I had installed on my crew. Hopefully I won't have any more problems for awhile.

Steve

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:55 pm

jajwrigh..... I haven't looked close at the front suspension on our trucks but I know the 82-94 models had a problem with the sway bar mount that would give you a clunk when you hit a bump. Look at this link.

http://www.s10extremist.org/forums/view ... hp?t=12023

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:58 pm

BADs Crew wrote:jajwrigh..... I haven't looked close at the front suspension on our trucks but I know the 82-94 models had a problem with the sway bar mount that would give you a clunk when you hit a bump.

Sway bar and mounts are different for the first gen s-series.

jajwrigh · Post by **jajwrigh** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:44 pm

Summit sells the moog parts. I plan on replacing my upper and lower ball joints with their products. I post a review when I finish...

Blaze One · Post by **Blaze One** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:45 pm

I guess they are the best out there .
What is the price difference between the OEM replacements and the upgraded MOOG parts ?

jajwrigh · Post by **jajwrigh** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:34 am

The moogs will run 180 - 200 dollars for two new uppers and lowers. I haven't a clue with the OEM parts. Why buy more of a part that will need to be replaced again? I am pretty sure that I read that Moog has a lifetime warranty too. In my eyes that is hard to beat...

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:42 pm

I'm with ya on that. I'd shell out the extra coin for a stronger part especially in the steering. Wouldn't want that to break while I'm cruising down the highway, especially with the kids in the truck. A woman I work with had a 4 dr Blazer- swerved to miss a deer, flipped over and made the roof the same height as the hood!

And she was going under 40 MPH. I don't want to test the strength of my roof...Keep me posted as I will probably doing these soon also!

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:36 am

Well I ordered me up a set from Summit last night- $49 ea top, $42 bot. Tried to order online but the only bottom ball joints it would list for it were 83-94. Gave up online and did it the old- fashioned way

Nice to know I'm getting the right parts.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:48 am

chumley wrote:Well I ordered me up a set from Summit last night- $49 ea top, $42 bot. Tried to order online but the only bottom ball joints it would list for it were 83-94. Gave up online and did it the old- fashioned way Nice to know I'm getting the right parts.

I end up calling summit everytime

I ordered some husky liners last week and couldn't get the order to go through online without ordering rears so, I had to call them up. They have been helpful the 4 or 5 times I have dealt with them.

jajwrigh · Post by **jajwrigh** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:52 pm

chumley wrote:Well I ordered me up a set from Summit last night- $49 ea top, $42 bot. Tried to order online but the only bottom ball joints it would list for it were 83-94. Gave up online and did it the old- fashioned way Nice to know I'm getting the right parts.

I just ordered them as well and had the same problem. I am not worried though because the part numbers match what federal mogul has on their website for our vehicles. (Moog)

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:55 am

Also I asked the sales guy about the lifetime warranty, he said there is 1 year.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:30 pm

Pauleo wrote:I have had my Crew in the shop 3 times since I last posted about the thump/clunk noise in my front end. Each time the dealership replaced different parts and called the job done.

Check your front upper control arm bushings. I've had 3 replaced under warranty that made a similar noise. Overall I was having the same exact issues with my dealer as you are having with yours. They would replace something and say here you go. I wouldn't even get to the end of the street before it started making the same thump/clunk noise again.

Here is everything that was done before the noise finally went away, (torsion bar mount bushings, shimmed torsion bar mounts, readjusted torsion bar crank, and 3 front upper control arm busings). Hopefully the ball joints will cure your problem, but if not then try some of these items as well. The dealer is only guessing at what's wrong that's why they just replace something, give you your truck back and

they don't see you again.

Steve

Pauleo · Post by **Pauleo** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:39 pm

Finally confirmed!!!! The dealership replaced both lower ball joints and now my thump/clunk noise is gone. Approximately 13,000 miles on a set of ball joints. Not to shabby, ay?

I hope they don't need replaced every 13k miles!

I'll be trading this puppy in the next time it needs them!

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:43 pm

Don't get too excited. Mine were replaced pretty young as well. Those sold before the redesigned ball joints were introduced can expect an early replacement.

The new design seems to be holding up much better.

Pauleo · Post by **Pauleo** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:11 am

HenryJ wrote:Don't get too excited. Mine were replaced pretty young as well. Those sold before the redesigned ball joints were introduced can expect an early replacement.

The new design seems to be holding up much better.

GREAT! Just what I wanted to hear!

After having drivin the truck home & now back to work, I have noticed that the problem is actually still there.

It just doesn't do as frequently. I'm thinking maybe the upper ball joints should have been replaced as well??? To be quite honest, I am getting pretty sick of these weak S-10 front ends.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:11 am

HenryJ wrote:Don't get too excited. Mine were replaced pretty young as well. Those sold before the redesigned ball joints were introduced can expect an early replacement.

The new design seems to be holding up much better.

I have 64k miles on my CC and just had my entire front suspension inspected by a GM dealer and they told me they couldn't believe how tight it still was.

I have also personally checked everything, and can't find anything that has loosened up. The only thing replaced so far are 2 upper control arm bushings, and the idler arm. I always use Mobil 1 synthetic grease on all the fittings every 3000 miles, and I wonder if this is why my front end is holding up so well? Maybe I'm just lucky?

Yeah right, with all the other problems I've had I just know one of these days I will be in the middle of nowhere and both my ball joints will decide to break.

Pauleo, check your upper control arm bushings! Maybe this is your problem.

Steve

Pauleo · Post by **Pauleo** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:25 am

killian96ss wrote:Pauleo, check your upper control arm bushings! Maybe this is your problem.

Steve

OK. But what is and where are the upper control arm bushings???

And what do they look like???

(Sorry I'm so illiterate!)

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:55 pm

Pauleo wrote:But what is and where are the upper control arm bushings??? And what do they look like???

(Sorry I'm so illiterate!)

I am referring to the front upper control arm bushings. On the front of your CC there are upper and lower control arms. Each control arm has 2 rubber bushings that attach to the frame, while the other end of each arm is where you will find a ball joint. The upper control arm bushings can be seen easily by looking over the top of each tire. You can see them a little easier if you jack the front of your CC up which will allow the front suspension to drop down a little. Each bushing should appear to be in there tight with no room for movement. If the bushing looks like it could move, or is badly cracked then it should be replaced. Look at all the bushings so you can compare them. If you see one that is damaged, then both bushings must be replaced on that control arm. If both are not replaced as a set then the new one will wear out much faster than normal. If any bushings are replaced you must also have the alignment done again. I hope this helps, but if anyone can elaborate farther please do so.

Steve

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:06 pm

I think my Ball Joints are going bad again. My truck has been pulling to the left on and off for the past couple of weeks. Today I was replacing the fender flare trim and noticed that my front tires are looking pigeon toed. This is the excact same thing it did last time.

Any ideas what would be causing this

This realy sucks

Steve

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:38 pm

Steve2003, you should check your tie rods since you already have new ball joints. The stock GM idler arm is also a very weak point. When you say pigeon toed, do you mean both front tires are pointing inward towards each other in the front (excessive toe in), or do you mean both front tires are tilting inward at the top of the tires (excessive negative camber)?

Steve

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:47 pm

Inward at the top.

Steve

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:23 pm

Steve2003 wrote:Inward at the top.

In that case check your upper control arm bushings and maybe your lower control arm bushings along with the new ball joints. I've had some UCA bushings replaced under warranty because one was badly cracked and 2 others looked like they were shrinking causing a big gap for them to move around. If you do need new bushings this would be a good time to go with polyurethane.

They would last a whole lot longer and hold an alignment much better than the stock rubber bushings. The MOOG ball joints are nice, so I can't imagine them failing so soon unless they weren't lubricated properly when they were installed.

Steve

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:26 pm

"cough" maybe its the SL

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:44 pm

jeff024 wrote:"cough" maybe its the SL

Maybe the SL is a factor or maybe not. Why are you coughing? You don't have a SL! Your probably glad you don't

I don't understand your post

Do you have a personel vendetta against Super Lift? If you don't have any valuable or helpful information why did you post this? I don't find this funny at all!!!

Thanks Killian96ss

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:18 pm

Chill people. It is all in good humor.

Steve2003, what brand balljoints were used when yours were replaced?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:44 pm

HenryJ wrote:Chill people. It is all in good humor.

HenryJ wrote:Steve2003, what brand balljoints were used when yours were replaced?

I think he had them replaced with MOOG ball joints. I doubt the SL lift kit is causing this problem, but I may be wrong. I just remembered that our camber adjustment is done with the upper control arm mounting bolts which have an offset washer design that can be rotated to allow the upper control arm to be moved laterally (side to side) to get the required camber for our trucks. If those bolts were not tightened properly and moved a little it would be very easy to end up with the wrong negative camber. I just found a printout of my alignment specs from 04. Left Front Camber -0.1*, Right Front Camber -0.1*, Left Front Caster 2.3*, Right Front Caster 2.6*, Total Front Toe 0.02* .These specs have worked really well for me and I had this alignment done when I installed my Goodyear MT/R's. I have 45k miles on these tires now and the wear pattern is dead on perfect on all 4 tires. I should get 50k out of them easily.

It goes to show just how important a good alignment is.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:53 pm

If it was indeed Moog then they should have a lifetime warranty. I do wonder about their worthiness. I'm not sure they are what they are cracked up to be.
I'm not saying I have the right answer yet , sorry.

Any change in ride height will also affect the camber. You may need to lower the front a little to get things back into spec. If the balljoints are OK.

If there is a shop around that will offer you lifetime alignment deals, it might be worth investing in one.

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:32 am

dont get your panties in a bunch it has been said many times that the lifts could be the cause because of things just not lining up properly

Post by **Walt** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:34 am

you guys

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:11 am

Steve, sorry you are haveing problems with the truck again . like i have said befor my stock ball joints were going bad when i put my lift on at 7k and now i have 18k on the truck and they could be replaced but are still good. So i don't think the lift is realy to blame.

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:42 pm

Ok I'm Chilled. I think Killian96ss might be right, a mechanic at work told me the same thing. He recomended a alignment shop that just happens to be a mile down the street. I'm going there now! Oh and jeff024 my panties aren't in a bunch! I don't wear any!

Steve

bwenny247 · Post by **bwenny247** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:52 pm

steve, do you have a big t-bar crank...or one at all? might help contribute to the problem

jeggers wrote:So i don't think the lift is realy to blame.

altright two sides to the case:

1. against superlift:
a good number of members have 31X10.50 tires with better results and wear of susp. components. they usually only have a body lift and no susp. lift.

2. for superlift:
jeffc has had his SL for the longest i think??? and hasn't had any trouble with susp. components.

so the answers out there, don't know where...but it's out there.

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:07 pm

Just got back from the alignment shop, they jacked my truck up and moved the tires back and forth and said the Ball Joints are fine and that it probably just needs an alignment and that the camber bolts are probably loose. 65.00 to do the alignment good for 90 days.

Hj I wish I knew of a shop that had a better waranty It's just hard to find a good shop around here that has good deals. Ben I think your right, the mechanic at work told me any time you put a suspencion lift on a truck and you take it off road your going to have alot of problems. I have been doing alot of off roading on rocky trails trying to find theese certain fishing holes.

Steve

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:13 pm

Steve2003 wrote:65.00 to do the alignment good for 90 days. Hj I wish I knew of a shop that had a better waranty.

$65 isn't bad, and it should last a lot longer than 90 days. I don't know of any shops around here that offer a lifetime warranty on an alignment. I don't even understand why a shop would do that. They would lose so much money by guaranteeing lifetime on an alignment.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:33 pm

Steve2003 wrote:my panties aren't in a bunch! I don't wear any!

That is NOT a mental picture that any of us needed

Glad it is going to be an easy fix.
One of our shops here offers a "lifetime" alignment. Once maybe twice? per year or once every 20k? I think it runs about $250? I really don't know all the details. I have heard that some big chains offer these deals. The money is in finding parts to replace, not the simple adjustment? For some it might be a good investment?

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:37 pm

Bwenny wrote:steve, do you have a big t-bar crank...

What ever the shop that last did my alignment had it at. The front seems lower then the back.

Steve

Retep · Post by **Retep** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:36 pm

Drivers side upper at 30,000 and the other 3 at 38,000 ticks.

They were replaced by the dealer all within the past year, in fact the last 3 was just a couple weeks ago. I assume they were replaced with the newer redesigned version. Are they better than the original???? I sure hope so.

Tire size is stock 235/75 and 1 inch t-bar crank.

I don't think peoples mods are killing these things, though they probably don't help any. I think it was just a crap design.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:24 pm

71k miles here and all 4 original ball joints are still tight.

Steve

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:34 pm

Got the alignment, tire rotation included, everything feel's real good right now. They said my tie rods were bad and that my bushings looked ok for now, no cracks, but they said they are the same old GM bushings and they probably should be replaced and that before I get new tires I should have the tie rods and bushings replaced. They also told me that since my truck is lifted and I do offroading that I need to have it serviced twice a year. They said what happened to my truck is quite common if you have a lifted truck and do any offroading.

Steve

jeffc · Post by **jeffc** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:32 am

i had the same camber problem with my truck a month after the lift. i went back and had them recheck the alignment and the upper control arm cam bolts that adjust the camber were loose. they tightened them very good and now it's been almost a year with no problems. i have 19k on my superlift (23k onthe truck) and it has basically been trouble free. my truck still drives great like the day the lift was put on. the only think i probably should replace soon are the shocks since i only have the cheap hydros they give you with the basic kit.

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:42 am

just tire here in il gives you six months on the alinement. the first time it didn't make it home the cam were bolts loose then i ajusted the ride hight then just had them check it all free (80.00 to start)

chumley · Post by **chumley** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:52 am

I think I remember reading somewhere on the Moog BJ's, maybe on the box or on their website its only a 1- yr warranty not lifetime, but I'd have to check on that. I haven't put mine in yet as it was the front wheel bearings that were bad not the BJ's. They're still sitting on my workbench in the garage for when I do eventually need them.