TS Lift Kit pics!!

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:26 pm

alloutss

Made the looong addy a link-HJ

AZS10Crew · Post by **AZS10Crew** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:30 pm

Now here come all the questions.

Was there a lot of welding involved or was it pretty much a bolt-on? I'm assuming from what I've read in other posts you installed it yourself...how much time was involved, special tools, etc?

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 7:12 pm

It looks almost identical to the TM lift. Only diff I can see is that the lower cross member is welded to the lower side supports instead of bolted. Guess it's a matter of preference. It looks good. I now most people like it welded, but then if you slam it down some day on a rock and bend it bad, the TM can be replaced by unbolting. And the tbar drops look a bit different. The TM adds a piece to the existing drop bolt, the TS uses a whole new drop bolt. And I see TS logo cut in the swaybar drops. LOL.

It does looks like the front needs hacked all the same. Here is a write up on what I did: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/bikes_n_4x ... 10lift.htm

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 9:51 pm

Yeah, the kit look exactly the same design as the TM kit. But I guess every drop axle kit is just about the same also anyway. The 7(6.5") says no cutting. I wonder why that is no cut and the 4.5 is. Strange

Con

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:15 pm

All I can say is this. Unless anyone can prove me wrong. The 7" kit has to be the 5" susp lift combined with the 2" body lift. This is how it has to be. There is now way you are going to get more out of an ifs lift. So that's that. LOL

Prove me wrong, I dare ya!

And yes, there is no way you can do susp lift without cutting.

There ya go.

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:28 pm

Yeah the lift was all bolt on I welded it for strength and used big stronger bolts

. I dont see how you can get 6.5 of IFS lift because my front drive shaft hardly clears parts of the frame. The brackets measure 5.15 inches from the middle of one hole to the other hole so its really more of what I would call a 5.5 inch kit

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:41 pm

quickbiker wrote:All I can say is this. Unless anyone can prove me wrong. The 7" kit has to be the 5" susp lift combined with the 2" body lift. This is how it has to be. There is now way you are going to get more out of an ifs lift. So that's that. LOL

Prove me wrong, I dare ya!

And yes, there is no way you can do susp lift without cutting.

There ya go.

From what I gather from all the large IFS lifts, It just a longer drop cradle. But I bet all these kits don't supply the extended front drive shaft, longer brakelines, electrical cables, etc. etc. So I wonder if the 7" lift from TS is a drop cradle so large, the exhaust pipe can stay in the stock location and the front drive shaft will go under it? What did you have to "cut" minus the exhaust on your kits? My reason for a no cut is to go back to stock if/when I ever sell the Crew.

Did anyone see that they have a 4link rear axle lift kit also. Bolt on and weld on versions for S10. this would cure the axle hop I have.

Cheers,

Con

P.S. RCD suspension has a T-bar to Coil Over lift kit for the Ranger that elimiates the T-bars. That's what someone here was thinking about as a kit. That would be cool for a S10.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 4:35 pm

I'm seriously thinking about the 4.5 TS kit. Just how much cutting/welding/hacking is involved or is it completely bolt in? Actually, a better way to put it would be to ask is it reversable if I ever had to lower it back down for any reason?

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:45 pm

GaryH wrote:I'm seriously thinking about the 4.5 TS kit. Just how much cutting/welding/hacking is involved or is it completely bolt in? Actually, a better way to put it would be to ask is it reversable if I ever had to lower it back down for any reason?

Anything is possible. But, your not just gonna bolt it back to stock without re-doing all the original brackets. All these kits involve cutting and some welding.

The only kits that do not are the ones that you add a leaf/extend shackle and tb crank. But those stress out the drive train more. The 5" kits that involve cutting do not stress anything in normal on road driving.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 7:43 am

Exactly what brackets do I need to cut? I'm not too worried about cutting things so much as being able to put it back to stock if I ever had to. I did a 6" lift and a "shackle inversion" on an almost brand new Jeep Wrangler once that involved cutting all the original front spring mounts off the frame. Definitely NOT for the faint of heart! It was a job however that could not be returned to original.

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:27 am

GaryH wrote:Exactly what brackets do I need to cut? I'm not too worried about cutting things so much as being able to put it back to stock if I ever had to. I did a 6" lift and a "shackle inversion" on an almost brand new Jeep Wrangler once that involved cutting all the original front spring mounts off the frame. Definitely NOT for the faint of heart! It was a job however that could not be returned to original.

Yeah, I noticed lots of kits need cutting(aka can't return to stock). Skyjacker just came out with a no cut kit for fullsize GM trucks just now. Every other kit for the fullsize needs to cut something major.

From the AD in the truck mag, they state the 7" lift(aka 6.5") is a no cut and no welding. I'm wondering if the 4.5" is a no cut(but probably needs welding of muffler pipes).

Cheers,

Con

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 3:52 pm

Yeah, I don't go off road too much anymore so I'm not sure how far I really want to go with this. I might just do some mudders and some skid plates and call it a day. I gotta say though that the lifted CC's I've seen on this sight do look pretty darned good.

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 9:31 pm

Conman wrote:
GaryH wrote:Exactly what brackets do I need to cut? I'm not too worried about cutting things so much as being able to put it back to stock if I ever had to. I did a 6" lift and a "shackle inversion" on an almost brand new Jeep Wrangler once that involved cutting all the original front spring mounts off the frame. Definitely NOT for the faint of heart! It was a job however that could not be returned to original.

Yeah, I noticed lots of kits need cutting(aka can't return to stock). Skyjacker just came out with a no cut kit for fullsize GM trucks just now. Every other kit for the fullsize needs to cut something major.

From the AD in the truck mag, they state the 7" lift(aka 6.5") is a no cut and no welding. I'm wondering if the 4.5" is a no cut(but probably needs welding of muffler pipes).

Cheers,

Con

Form the looks of it it would take alot more that just 7 inches of lift the keep from cutting the exhaust

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:22 am

Summary:

Looks like both kits(TM and TS) are very similar. It's known that the TM 5" kit needs cutting so no return to stock. TS 4/5" kit still confused on the mods that are needed and if it can be returned to stock. The TS 6/7" kit Mag AD says no cut or welding, but of course does not state what needs to be replaced if needed(like extra long wiring, brake lines, axles, etc, etc). Plus no first hand knowledge of anyone with the 7" kit either.

TM kit comes with shocks but both TS kits do not. The TS kit is slightly cheaper than TM but if you add in shocks, about the same price or so.

Appears TM kit has much better instructions than the TS Kit.

Add, edit, correct this guys.

Cheers,

Con

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:26 am

Right now, if I had to choose between the TM or the TS kits, I would choose the TM kit because of the better dealer network(local place can install it for me) and instructions(If I did the install myself). BUT if the TS kit is a no/low cut AND can be returned to stock, I would choose it over the TM kit but have someone install it for me.

Quickbiker, what was cut off that made the TM kit not able to return to stock? Thanks.

Conway

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:21 pm

Conman wrote:Quickbiker, what was cut off that made the TM kit not able to return to stock? Thanks.

Conway

And since I probably live less than 10 miles from you, I would love to see your truck up close sometime.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:04 pm

Conman wrote:Right now, if I had to choose between the TM or the TS kits, I would choose the TM kit because of the better dealer network(local place can install it for me) and instructions(If I did the install myself). BUT if the TS kit is a no/low cut AND can be returned to stock, I would choose it over the TM kit but have someone install it for me.

Quickbiker, what was cut off that made the TM kit not able to return to stock? Thanks.

Conway

You can check out my link for all the pics of the install. It may be difficult to see the exact cuts, cause I painted right after I made the cuts for protection. lift install pics

Here is one good pics. Try to see the bottom of the top brackets cut. You could compare to your stock brackets:

cut brackets

Also my install write up on the cc home page.

I basically had to cut the bottom of the top mounts so the TM brackets can pass through the bottom of it. All I did is at: http://www.angelfire.com/me4/bikes_n_4x ... 10lift.htm

And yes, the TM instructions are excellent. Didn't have any problems and the support is excellent. I also have the TM dual stabilizer kit on it, and one shock leaked the oil out, and TM just sent me a new one. The shocks are life time warranty. TM is a great company. And they just got bought out by Smittybuilt, so maybe with the combined resources, they will only get better. But TM is known for their IFS lifts, they are good at it, (except for the dag gone tbar drop that I did away with).[/url]

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:14 pm

GaryH wrote:
Conman wrote:Quickbiker, what was cut off that made the TM kit not able to return to stock? Thanks.

Conway

And since I probably live less than 10 miles from you, I would love to see your truck up close sometime.

Any time, just drop me a note. Or better yet, come out and ride with us (CORE). We do many stocker friendly rides. We just did one the past weekend, very interesting, which will be written up in www.core4x4.org shortly with pics.

Here is a teaser from it:

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:20 pm

Conman wrote:Summary:

Looks like both kits(TM and TS) are very similar. It's known that the TM 5" kit needs cutting so no return to stock. TS 4/5" kit still confused on the mods that are needed and if it can be returned to stock. The TS 6/7" kit Mag AD says no cut or welding, but of course does not state what needs to be replaced if needed(like extra long wiring, brake lines, axles, etc, etc). Plus no first hand knowledge of anyone with the 7" kit either.

TM kit comes with shocks but both TS kits do not. The TS kit is slightly cheaper than TM but if you add in shocks, about the same price or so.

Appears TM kit has much better instructions than the TS Kit.

Add, edit, correct this guys.

Cheers,

Con

Looks like you hit it on the nail. And I don't know if I would want to do i lift without the cutting for extending the stuff down. I would think it would weaken the lift. All I can say is, that if you are interested in any of these lifts, get in contact with the manufacturer and get details then you can see if that is really what you want. If they can't give you the details, then I would be wary.

pbeachcruzer · Post by **pbeachcruzer** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:17 pm

ok, i'll be the guinne pig on this one. ordering the TS 6.5 when my tax returns come in. should be within a week or two. the manager of the local 4-wheel shop said the trailmaster kit was crap and to stay away from it.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 4:10 pm

Yea, the crap part of the trailmaster lift is the tbar drop thing.

Hope you take lots pics! We all be interested.

Looks like allot of ppl trying different kits. I bet there are many just reading and waiting till all the polls are out.

AZS10Crew · Post by **AZS10Crew** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 4:17 pm

I'll probably end up getting one too...but not until at least next fall. My tax return is spoken for by the TV I bought for Christmas.

I'll try and stop by the shop here in Mesa, AZ that's done one of the TS lifts and see what kind of info they have.

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:16 pm

pbeachcruzer wrote:ok, i'll be the guinne pig on this one. ordering the TS 6.5 when my tax returns come in. should be within a week or two. the manager of the local 4-wheel shop said the trailmaster kit was c##p and to stay away from it.

Yea i was told that too so I spent 2 months researching other kits and i found a TS add in offroad mag and it said they had s10 lifts and here i am

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:56 pm

quickbiker wrote:Yea, the c##p part of the trailmaster lift is the tbar drop thing.

Hope you take lots pics! We all be interested.

Looks like allot of ppl trying different kits. I bet there are many just reading and waiting till all the polls are out.

I've never heard any bad stories on the TM kits. But I can see the t-bar drop could have been designed better. But all the t-bar drops out there that could be said also.

Cheers,

Con

pbeachcruzer · Post by **pbeachcruzer** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 6:02 pm

i called ts and had them fax me a copy of the instal instuctions for the 7" kit. no pics and kept cross referencing a set they didnt send, so not sure if im better off or not. sounds to me like if i end up getting the ts 7" kit, im gonna spend about the same as the tm since it needs extra junk (longer brake lines, shocks, etc.) that and just dont take crap from them if they send the wrong parts. when i talked to them they did say they were in the process of re doing the lift so it is easier to install.

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:33 am

pbeachcruzer wrote:i called ts and had them fax me a copy of the instal instuctions for the 7" kit. no pics and kept cross referencing a set they didnt send, so not sure if im better off or not. sounds to me like if i end up getting the ts 7" kit, im gonna spend about the same as the tm since it needs extra junk (longer brake lines, shocks, etc.) that and just dont take c##p from them if they send the wrong parts. when i talked to them they did say they were in the process of re doing the lift so it is easier to install.

Sounds like you will be spending way more time than the TM kit with those instructions.

As from the GP topics, I saw that Blazer with the TM kit, SL 2" a-arms and 2" BL. So roughly he had like 9" of lift and the 33s were tiny looking on it. Def. 9" is way too much for a daily driver. I did see him when he was leaving and he said he had no CV problems. He said if he looked into it more, he would have done the Fabritech Straight axle conversion for a better off-road ability.

But after seeing the TM kit, I can see why it's a cut required as where the upper a-arms mount to the TM frame, it's where a stock mount is. The TS 4.5" kit is probably the same also. So if I assume how the TS 6.5" kit is, it's cradle drop frame drops so low, that it clears the factory mounts.

As for extra parts needed(aka longer brake lines, etc). I'm wondering why longer shocks would be needed as I would assume as this mount would be dropped down as well. So my guess that Longer brake lines, 4wd shift electronic wires, and maybe longer front drive shaft will be needed over the kit. I assume the steering system will have some sort of dropdown system in the kit.

If the TM kit was no-cut, I would get it in a heartbeat over either TS kit. But if TS can inprove it's reputation, this could sway me to the 6.5" kit since it's advertised as no cut no welding(as per there ADs in the off-road mags). 6.5/7" is much more than I wanted in a lift, but just having the option to return to stock,(well it's not like it's going to be easy to unbolt this stuff) keeps the door open.

Cheers,

Con

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:01 am

pbeachcruzer wrote:i called ts and had them fax me a copy of the instal instuctions for the 7" kit. no pics and kept cross referencing a set they didnt send, so not sure if im better off or not. sounds to me like if i end up getting the ts 7" kit, im gonna spend about the same as the tm since it needs extra junk (longer brake lines, shocks, etc.) that and just dont take c##p from them if they send the wrong parts. when i talked to them they did say they were in the process of re doing the lift so it is easier to install.

Find out if TS can get pics of an installed 7" lift kit on any s10. Second, find out exactly what extra parts are needed that is not included with the kit(aka what lenth shocks recommended, what length brake lines, 4wd wires, etc, etc). Also, if they plan on selling lots of these kits(any make), they better have real pictures, or computer drawings(like Hidden Hitch does with it's instructions) in their instructions. And lastly, find out if this kit can be removed to return to stock. I understand they Advertise this as a No-cut No-welding, but what some call easy, others call it a show stopper.

Just to let everyone know why I'm so worried about no-cut, there is some talk(lucky it's been stale though) about revising the lift laws in New York State and from what the proposed wording might be, it will not grandfather any lifts over the law(3" of any lift would be the max lift over stock). So that means if I cannot lower it back down, I could possibly fail inspection and not be able to drive or even sell it. Right now, it's a bumper height law which is loosely inforced(appears ZR2 with 5" of lift is barely legal so def. the 6.5/7" TS lift and 32s will be cutting it close with the current law). So if I got the TS kit, I would probably not crank the front t-bars so much and depending on how the rear is raised(I assume a Spring over axle and some blocks), put shorter blocks in the rear and probably lift it no more than 6" if possible and run 31" Tires like Quickbiker and Warnoffroad since our rear wheelwells are so small anyway.

I understand KnobbyMan had major problems with his TS kit as he was unfortunatly the R&D ginnipig for TS(not by his will) which was totally unfair, but if TS can clean up there act, us the public, could then trust the products they have to offer. I'm not planning on a lift this year(warranty) but if they can prove their worth, I would get the kit.

Let us know what info you get from them.

Good Luck,

Con

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:42 pm

There are laws about lift kits?

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:07 pm

Sport Truck mag had a picture(a real one!) of the s10 7" lift kit from TS. They quick text said it's 100% bolt on with minor cutting. From the picture, it looks like the whole subframe is bolted together to form one piece. looked very good looking.

Cheers,

Con

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 6:09 pm

I think if they had better instructions, not so secretive about what it looks like, they might sell more.

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:38 am

What was on the cover? Maybe I have that one.

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 7:13 am

warnoffroad wrote:What was on the cover? Maybe I have that one.

I think it was May2002 issues. I think there was a 2003 Chevy Fullsize on the front cover.

Con