Parts Kit is Ordered for my Counter Balance Shaft Noise

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:32 pm

I took my crew in for service today and found that the parts kit to repair the Counter Balance Shaft Noise will be in next week. They will need my crew for 2 days and will be providing a loaner.
Has anyone had this fix performed yet?

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:44 pm

You'll be the first that I know of.
I'll be interested to hear your observations, after the kit is installed.

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:57 pm

i'll let you know next week after its installed. I don't appreciate it them having to tear down a brand new engine but the only other choice i have is to " Keep the Radio Up " as the service manager at my dealership suggested.

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:04 pm

get the part numbers and TSB if there is one. Good Luck.
Con

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:15 pm

i would love for someone to come drive my truck and tell me if i have that noise going on...i swear i dont hear nothin

KYLE · Post by **KYLE** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:09 am

my 03 crew has a strange bell sound from 1800 to about 2400 rpms. not if i stay at the same speed just accelerating through that range, its a strange ringing sound?

its been there since i got it with 30 miles.

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:04 pm

Does it sorta sound like a diesel engine? If so, its probably the Counter Balance Shaft Noise. Not all vehicles exhibit it. If i would have known i would have test drove another s10 crew.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:21 pm

I got my CC when it only had 4 miles on it and it didn't initially make the noise. That "diesel sound" (which is the best description I've heard for it) just sort of showed up around the 1000 mile mark and has done it ever since. I've just got so used to it now that I don't really pay any attention to it anymore.

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:25 pm

I should have my Crew back by tomorrow then i'm off on Saturday to meet another Crew'er to buy his cap. Its a long ride on the NJ turnpike to meet him so i'll get a good chance to see if everything's ok.

After another month of driving i'll post before and after gas mileage readings and anything else i might notice. Perfect timing as its time to start the winter beach fishing

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:00 pm

rdivirgilio wrote:I should have my Crew back by tomorrow then i'm off on Saturday to meet another Crew'er to buy his cap. Its a long ride on the NJ turnpike to meet him so i'll get a good chance to see if everything's ok.

After another month of driving i'll post before and after gas mileage readings and anything else i might notice. Perfect timing as its time to start the winter beach fishing

You buying that cap from the guy from LongIsland? It will be nice to have more dry space.

Con

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:33 pm

So far. I was supposed to get my crew back today but the mechanic is having problems lining up the new parts. 2 days now. When i first called this afternoon i was told that they were still taking it apart, then the service manager said that they were having problems.
Doesn't leave me with a good feeling. Oh well, its under warranty.

I hope to meet up with Mickey Saturday morning at 10am. As long as i get my crew back sometime tomorrow its on.

Stay tuned-----more to follow!!

adrenalnjunky · Post by **adrenalnjunky** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:09 pm

I dunno what's worse -- an honest service manager -- which appears to be what you have, or a good service manager that would blame it on UPS not getting the parts on time, or say the only mechanic that they have that is qualified to do the work got sick, or some other c###-and-bull story to buy time and not worry you.

Of course either way I know that something is wrong, I guess I would rather know the truth up front.

My translation of "Having trouble lining the parts up" is something along the lines of: "We dont have a single guy back here that has ever done this procedure, or anything like it because we've been able to tell anyone else that complained about it that it was normal for it to make that noise and they bought it."
But that's just me and my pessimism when it comes to dealership service departments -- with GM vehicles at least.

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:26 pm

Its friday afternoon, and my crew is back. The noise seems to be gone (for now????). I'll drive it for awhile and see.

Apparently, GM pays 4.6 hours to the tech to make the changes. I talked to the tech and it took him 2 days. Not sure if it was a full 2 days of working but he did say this was the first time they have performed it.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Dragonmaster · Post by **Dragonmaster** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:12 pm

rdivirgilio wrote:Its friday afternoon, and my crew is back. The noise seems to be gone (for now????). I'll drive it for awhile and see.

Apparently, GM pays 4.6 hours to the tech to make the changes. I talked to the tech and it took him 2 days. Not sure if it was a full 2 days of working but he did say this was the first time they have performed it.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Your tech must have misunderstood the warranty time then, because my book lists it as 8.6 hours, there are a few numbers he has to add together for this service, not just the 4.6 they allow for the counterbalance shaft installation.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:38 pm

rdivirgilio wrote:Its friday afternoon, and my crew is back. The noise seems to be gone (for now????). I'll drive it for awhile and see.

I may want to have the noise fixed too. My concern is oil leaks, if you look at the parts in the kit the tensioner bracket goes between the block & a modified timing cover that has a indentation in the mating surface. That's where I can see a possible leak.

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:28 pm

Well, hopefully there is no leaks. Its under warranty so i'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the information

marks10cc · Post by **marks10cc** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:40 pm

The warranty labor hours has been adjusted.

FYI:

TSB #03-06-01-024A - (09/25/2003)
Rattle Noise In Engine (Install Timing Tensioner Kit)
1996-2003 Chevrolet Astro, Blazer, Express, S-10, Silverado
1996-2003 GMC Jimmy, Safari, Savana, Sierra, Sonoma
1996-2001 Oldsmobile Bravada
with 4.3L V6 Engine (VINs W, X -- RPOs L35, LU3)
This bulletin is being revised to clarify warranty description information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-01-024 (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System)

Condition
Some customers may comment on a rattle-type noise coming from the engine at approximately 1800 to 2200 RPMs.

Cause
The spark, rattle-type noise may be caused by torsional vibration of the balance shaft.

Correction
If detonation noise is present , perform detonation/spark knock diagnostics first.
Install a new tensioner assembly kit using the procedure below.
Remove the engine front cover. Refer to SI for engine front cover removal procedure.
Remove the crankshaft sensor reluctor ring and line up the timing marks on the crank gear and cam shaft gear.
Remove the camshaft gear and chain. For model years 1996-1998, remove the crankshaft sprocket using J 5825-A.
Pull the shipping pin and discard. Remove the nylon timing chain tensioner blade from the timing chain tensioner bracket.
Position the bracket on the front of the engine. The upper two attaching holes of the bracket will line up with the center two engine front cover bolt holes. The lower bracket holes will line up with the engine front cover alignment holes.

Use a hammer and the J 46165 Pin Driver to install the dowel pins through the two lower holes in the bracket and into the engine block. Make sure that the bracket is held firmly in place before proceeding.
For model years 1996-1998, install a roller-type timing chain set. Install the crankshaft sprocket using the J 5590 Crankshaft Gear Installer.
Install the timing chain around the crankshaft sprocket and position the timing chain to the driver's side of the engine.

Install the nylon timing chain tensioner guide onto the timing chain tensioner bracket pin and position the top of the guide under the tab at the top of the bracket.
Install the camshaft sprocket into the chain and then to the camshaft. Install the bolts finger-tight. Make sure the timing marks are aligned, then tighten the camshaft sprocket bolt. Tighten
Tighten the bolt to 25 N·m (18 lb ft).
Install the crankshaft reluctor ring.

Install the engine front cover and place a washer under the two center cover bolts that extend through the tensioner bracket. These washers are required to maintain the proper crush on the engine front cover seal. Tighten
Tighten the bolts to 12 N·m (106 lb in).

Parts Information
Part Number; Description; Qty
12458911; Chain kit; 1
89017257; Tensioner; 1
10220906; Oil pan gasket; 1
88893989; O ring and gasket kit; 1
3754587; Water pump gasket; 2
89017259; Cover; 1
Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation; Description; Labor Time
J1944; Tensioner, Timing Chain - Install; 0.2 hr
Add; To Replace Crankshaft Gear; 0.2 hr
Add; To Clean Parts On Vehicle over 48,280 km (30,000 mi); 0.3 hr
Add; with A/C; 0.1 hr
Add; S-10 Blazer, Pick Up, S-15 Jimmy, Sonoma With Manual Transmission; 8.4 hrs
Add; S-10 Blazer, Pick Up, S-15 Jimmy, Sonoma and Bravada with Automatic Transmission; 8.8 hrs
Add; T-10 Blazer, Pick Up, T-15 Jimmy, Sonoma With 4WD and Bravada with AWD; 4.1 hrs
Add; Express, Savanna; 3.9 hrs
Add; Silverado, Sierra with Four Wheel Drive; 4.1 hrs
Add; Astro, Safari With All Wheel Drive; 4.1 hrs
Add; Astro, Safari; 3.7 hrs
Add; Silverado, Sierra; 3.7 hrs

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:38 pm

That sounds more like it. I've been driving awhile now and the noise is no longer present. It looks like a good fix.
Any comments on how long the teflon tensioner will last??

Dragonmaster · Post by **Dragonmaster** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:54 pm

rdivirgilio wrote:That sounds more like it. I've been driving awhile now and the noise is no longer present. It looks like a good fix.
Any comments on how long the teflon tensioner will last??

I have seen the teflon tensioner ina few older hondas with over 300,000 miles still look nearly brand new, so i don't think it will casue any problems for you.

Socaldave · Post by **Socaldave** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:54 am

I am tired of listening to that balance shaft noise! It seems to hit between 1800-2000 rpm, and that is right where the motor is when I am driving around town. Drives me crazy and I just hate noises and rattles coming from my cars...

I first noticed it soon after buying the truck. Many trips to the dealer only to be told it is normal engine noise/vibration! (Normal for this engine design mabey!) I finally found the post here on the balance shaft ,and after presenting it to the dealer they acknowleged the condition. I now have about 25,000 miles on the truck and it seems to be louder. I am going to the dealer today to discuss having the tensioner put in. Of course I will be armed with print out that 'Marcs10cc' posted and the color pictures that "Jim' posted.

Thanks guys........

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:35 pm

Unfortunately, mine is over the warranty period so I guess it's "crank up the radio" time.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:43 pm

Mine's very quiet.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:21 pm

quickbiker wrote:Mine's very quiet.

Some of them don't make noise, some do. Mine was quiet for the first couple thousand miles, then it started. It was real hard to hear at first but now it irritating as hell. It's kind of a mood thing though. Some days I just don't pay any attention to it, other days it drives me nuts.

rdivirgilio · Post by **rdivirgilio** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:40 pm

i know the feeling. Once you know its there it bugs you until you find out what it is and how to fix it.
Tonight coming home from Atlantic City the winds were very strong blowing towards us as we traveled up the AC Xpressway. Around 70mph i started hearing the wind rattling something from the passenger side front window area. My wife opened everything on her side but we couldn't find it. I'll check to see if there is any molding or something loose on the outside. One thought is the wind was somehow getting into the air vent.
Now this will drive me nuts until i figure it out.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:11 pm

Probably the cheesy seal strip along the bottom of the window on the outside.

kwalsh · Post by **kwalsh** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:32 am

for those with this counter balance problem....did the noise start out
as a tapping sound? something that would resemble the sound
of an engine with a bad plug, ya know that pinging sound,
but much softer?

marks10cc · Post by **marks10cc** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:32 pm

Yes, kwalsh, that is the sound. It happens under acceleration (mild or heavy) somewhere between 1600 and 2200 RPM's. It has been described as pinging, knocking, rattling, or a small diesel sound.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:24 pm

If they are all designed the same. How come it's only some that have the problem. I don't understand.

adrenalnjunky · Post by **adrenalnjunky** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:57 am

Paul, since you and I don't have the noise--I guess we got the super-special 4.3.

The secret CIA "silent running" edition

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:53 pm

quickbiker wrote:If they are all designed the same. How come it's only some that have the problem. I don't understand.

"Manufacturing tolerances" or something like that. Some motors are built a little "tighter" than others.

AZS10Crew · Post by **AZS10Crew** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:51 pm

GaryH wrote:
quickbiker wrote:If they are all designed the same. How come it's only some that have the problem. I don't understand.
"Manufacturing tolerances" or something like that. Some motors are built a little "tighter" than others.

There's lots of "Monday Cars" too.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:17 pm

haha!!!

adrenalnjunky · Post by **adrenalnjunky** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:54 am

I think my engine was built on a Wednesday, but the front suspension was assembled first thing on Monday morning.

Torsion bars were too high, had the mysterious clunking that proper lubing fixed. Front end alignment was terrible, and the front shock was overtightened and squeaked at times when wet.

Oh well--they were all easy enough to fix.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:42 am

I ordered mine the way I wanted it. It even has a factory "sold" sticker inside the firewall. Maybe they paid particular attention to it.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:22 pm

AZS10Crew wrote:
GaryH wrote:
quickbiker wrote:If they are all designed the same. How come it's only some that have the problem. I don't understand.
"Manufacturing tolerances" or something like that. Some motors are built a little "tighter" than others.
There's lots of "Monday Cars" too.

I think mine is a "Morning After" truck!