Too Many Repairs

[dave]

Well, I was killing time at work today and found this site while surfin the net. I have owned my truck for about 9 months and have 10,500 miles on it. I use it off road a lot for hunting and just exploring new places. I like many things about the truck such as the nice street ride, plush interior, good power, etc. however I have had many repairs. I am in the process of filing with the state on the Lemon Law. I want my money back and if this happens I will buy a Tacoma 4 Door TRD.



I have read a lot of the posts on this forum and have many of the same problems. Intermittent growling/rattle noise, knocks in the suspension, leaking shocks, fluctuating fuel gauge, rear door weatherstrip cut from door edge, doors not aligned/hung properly, yada yada yada..



I have included below a portion of the letter I am sending in to GM regarding the repairs to my truck. I will check back in with you all from time to time to read more posts. Please feel free to email me or send me a PM if you want to talk more. Great site, keep up the nice work. Isn't it just amazing the ammount of info one can find on the web..........



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Here is a portion of my letter/documentation to GM:



The following are all the Repair Orders Numbers, dates, and problems:



1. RO. 214699, 3-4-02, 534 miles 2 DAY IN SHOP

 Drivers door not closing properly and rattles. The door striker was adjusted.

 Wire harness sticking out from hood near D/S wiper blade. The harness was relocated.

 Vehicle pulls to the right. The vehicle was aligned.



2. RO. 217496, 4-15-02, 1602 miles 2 DAY IN SHOP

 Soft intermittent growling/grinding noise from lower dash/floorboard area at about 1800-2000 rpm’s. The technician did not hear anything. Told this was normal engine vibration.

 Power steering pump “Gurgles” when turned sharply. Told this was normal working noise.

 Drivers door still not closing properly (see 3-4-02 repairs). The door was again aligned and adjusted.

 Fuel gauge intermittently fluctuates by º of a tank. The vehicle was road tested and no problem found.



3. RO. 220954, 6-30-02, 2856 miles 2 DAY IN SHOP

 Fuel gauge still intermittently fluctuates by º of a tank. The fuel sensor had a high resistance and a ‘kit” was installed.

 Soft intermittent growling/grinding noise from lower dash/floorboard area at about 1800-2000 rpm’s is still occurring. The technician confirmed that this time he heard the noise but could not find it. Told me to continue to drive vehicle and advise later when problem becomes worse.

 Front tires feathering on outside edges (see 3-4-02 repairs). The vehicle was aligned again.



4. RO. 225306, 8-5-02, 5030 miles 3 DAYS IN SHOP

 Passenger side rear door weather-strip has been cut by the upper door edge. The weather-strip was special ordered. The body shop to install the new weather-strip and roll back (bend!) both upper edges on the rear doors. The doors have been hung/welded slightly off plumb and there is no adjustment. The top edges of the doors must be bent out so they do not rub the weather-strip so hard when closing.



 Engine light on and hard start, very rough idle. The fuel injectors were cleaned and balanced.



 Soft intermittent growling/grinding noise from lower dash/floorboard area at about 1800-2000 rpm’s is still occurring. The old technician who heard it is no longer working there (see 6-30-02 repairs). The new technician can’t hear it or duplicate the noise. Nothing was done again.



 Fuel gauge still intermittently fluctuates by º of a tank (see 4-15-02 and 6-30-02 repairs). The entire fuel tank module/sending unit was replaced



5. 1 DAY IN SHOP I must be missing this next repair order. The special order weather-strip arrived and I brought the vehicle in to have it installed (see 8-5-02 repair). The wrong part had been ordered and the correct one was re-ordered.



6. 2 DAY IN SHOP ? I must be missing this next repair order as well. The correct special order weather-strip arrived and I again brought the vehicle in to have it installed (see 8-5-02 repair). The body shop “rolled back” both upper edges on the rear doors and installed the new weather-strip.



7. RO. 228772, 9-23-02, 7309 miles 3 DAYS IN SHOP

 Heavy metal knocking noise coming from front suspension area. The wheel stops were lubricated.

 Occasional rough idle and the vehicle stalled once. The diagnostic tests showed no problem codes or mis-fires (8-5-02 repairs).

 Power steering pump still “Gurgles” when turned sharply (see 3-4-02 and 4-15-02 repairs). Told again this was normal working noise. ( My wife’s 2000 Blazer and my friends 2001 S-10 do not make a “Gurgle” noise?)

 A rattle noise coming from the left front seat belt area. The seat belt retractor was R&R’d and re-secured.

 Trim clips are missing on driver side door panel and plastic cover on the door pillar. The clips were missing and new ones were installed.



8. RO. 232332, 11-18-02, 10165 miles 4 DAYS IN SHOP

 Heavy metal knocking noise coming from front suspension area (see 9-23-02 repairs). The left side upper and lower ball joints were replaced, the sway bar bushings were lubed, and the front end aligned.

 Passenger side plastic trim covering the seat track was broken at rear attachment point. A new trim piece to be special ordered. The part arrived and was installed on day 3 (the vehicle was in the shop for 4 days this time). When I picked up the vehicle I inspected the trim piece and found it very loose fitting. The technician had broken the same rear attachment point during install. Yet another trim piece has been special ordered to be installed on another visit!!!!

 Both rear door panels were pulled away from the door structure. New door keepers (plastic clips) were installed.



NOTE: After this repair I picked up the vehicle and took a test drive. The vehicle was making the same heavy metal knocking noise. (Perhaps the ball joints were not bad after all?) I immediately drove back to Crest Chevrolet and took the technician and the service foreman (Mr. Crabtree) for a ride. They both heard and acknowledged the noise. I also spoke with the service manager (Sam Barnett). I agreed to bring the vehicle back. The next morning I returned but could not get the vehicle to make the noise during a test ride with Sam Barnett. Just my luck!!! I agreed to drive the vehicle over the weekend and report back if the noise resurfaces. Later that day the noise returned several times. I will see how it goes over the weekend.



Also, I noticed a metal scraping sound in the front left wheel while returning to Crest the next morning. Evidently the technician had bent the sheet metal cover next to the rotor when the lower ball joint was replaced and it was rubbing on the rotor. They put it up on a lift and bent it back in place. Just a little more frustration on my part!



Also, while the vehicle was up on the lift I noticed that the right rear shock absorber had an oily fluid all over the lower body. The shock absorber seal is leaking and a new one is on order. What will be next?





I purchased this vehicle because the price was good and I still wanted to buy American. My wife also drives a 2000 Chevrolet Blazer. It has been in the shop a few times for warranty repairs, however they have not been as extensive and she likes the vehicle. Before I bought this S-10 Crewcab I owned a Dodge Dakota. It too had many repairs and I just did not like it. I will probably go back to a Toyota product. Before buying American I drove a used 1985 Toyota 4 Runner for 10 years. I put over 160,000 trouble free miles on it. Except for usual maintenance items such as brakes, batteries, alternator, water pump, and clutch it never let me down. Toyota’s are a little more money but well worth it. Talk to any Toyota owner and they all say the same thing. No problems and I love it!





I wish to return my S-10 Crewcab back to General Motors for a full refund of my purchase price, taxes, and Extended Warranty less any pro-rated fees I may owe for the usage and mileage I placed on the car prior to the warranty repairs.

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[Jim]

I was going to write some responses to some of your problems but as I read on, I feel you need to find a different Chevrolet dealer to service your truck. After reading your list. I would have been looking 4 months ago. I have had mine 10 months 10,000 mi. I took it in at 500 mi. for the engine noise & received an explanation. Since then the only thing wrong has been: the weather-strip-dealer repair, Bumping sound right front -Hood hinge -I fixed it, Squeaking right front where bumper contacts body -I fixed that, Some of the sounds you hear have a good explanation others It seems the dealer was barking up the wrong tree. Check out these links...others complaining about the engine noise. I found this info shortly after I heard mine, it does help to find it's not just yours with the problems your dealer should have recognized the engine noise there is even a GM Technical Service Bulletin on the sound



http://www.thebestbuddies.com/pic/modin ... eshaft.htm



http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/TSBScans/sb628938.pdf



Do you like your rice cooked or fried

[HenryJ]

I'm with Jim on this one, the dealer really dropped the ball on those problems.

Mine is really pretty rattle, bump, and squeak free (other than the soon to be replaced front shocks).

But it took quite a while to find all the little buggers



The bump : the EGR supply tubing from the LH exhaust manifold ,on mine, bumped the "pinch" weld body seam along the base of the firewall intermitently. Loosened it bent it to clear and retightened.



Another one was the "milk jug" bump: it was the plastic flap in the front part of the LR inner fender. I did a little trimming for the E-brake cables to clear.



Rattle #1: the lines crossing over the frame under the LH rear door touched the bottom of the cab. Bent for clearance.



Rattle#2: E-brake cable rattled against the front spring/hanger . zip tied them together.



Squeaks: outer window seals (wipers) ,glued down. Shocks, in the process of replacing. Bumper styrofoam side inserts, adjusted to snug after body lift.



I'm sure I may have forgotten some



It sounds like lots of work, but I fixed them as I found them. I think that any new vehicle will have some anoyances to be fixed. If you want a job done right you have to do it yourself.

I too considered the Toyota, but went with the S-10 CC. There isn't as much rear seat room in the Toyota , insurance was higher ,and the cost of parts scared me off.



Another thing, I plan to keep mine for the long run and there are 9 years worth of parts in the wrecking yards already , 'cept for the cab and bed.



And ever price a cowl induction hood for the Toyota?



However if you don't have a good dealer to work with, maybe another brand would be the best choice

[Conman]

I've owned imports for a very long time and this is my first "American"(whatever that means now a days) vehicle ever. There will be lemons and "squeaky" vehicles but def. I'm very happy with my crew's quality. Does the Crew have flaws, sure, lots of them, but I was not expecting a BMW(and the price that comes with it). I def. think my Trooper is much higher in quality and more heavy duty parts, but it did cost alot more than my loaded crew though.

I too really like the Taco as that was my top choice(because the TRD option was available on the crew model), but after you add it up, it was about 5-10 grand more than the crew feature for feature. So yeah, I think the taco is better, but is it 10k better(a fullsize chevy would be cheaper still and is a better truck than the s10)? Plus no options like leather, power heated seats, and the taco has a very bland interior. Also, the toyo dealer's think their stuff don't stink so they won't even work with you let alone locate a taco TRD crew for you(when I bought my crew, there we no taco crews available in my area). Heck, two dealerships I went to did not even know what a doublecab was(FYI: name of the taco crew)! Plus, IMHO, their quality is going down. I know a few Camary Owners that don't think it's really that good of a car. My neighbor is a tow truck driver and does contracts for dealerships and funny thing is that he says he tows more new toyotas than hyundais! You better check www.outdoorwire.com and club.vmag.com for toyota 4x4 forums before you say they Toyota is that much better than anything else.



Sorry you are having troubles as you have one with problems compared to most of us here, but keep on it as you did pay good money for your vehicle. I've heard GM is very reasonable with problems resolution so make sure you just move up the chain to get it resolved.

Hopefully you have another GM dealer near you as they are not very helpfull either(IMHO).



Cheers,

Con

[Joseph]

WOW, what a list. I got a few problems I want fix to. My shocks makes way to much noise. Sometimes I feels like the tranmission is slipping every once a while. The motor makes a clacking noise. The 4 wheel drive system well, to me doesn't work right. I've been the shop so much after I bought the truck. I didn't want to back any more. I'm going to due some looking at my truck and see what needs to be looked at by the dealer. Some whats on Dave's list I got to but, just puttting up with it. Maybe no more. I'll get fix what I don't like. Peace of mind is what I want. I enjoy what I'm driving want it to be right. JH68

[Socaldave]

Well you guys are right about a lot of things. The price was definately right on the Crew Cab. I got mine for $20,200 + tax and license. It is nicer inside than the Tacoma but the Tacoma TRD has a much beefier stance. Yeah the TRD is 5 grand more but they have a great reputation. I have several friends with Tacomas and they are sold on them as well. I probably should have taken my Crew Cab to a different dealer but this one was the most convenient for me and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for way too long.



HenryJ, I will look into some of the items you mentioned. Thanks for your input. I have a very loud metallic knock and creeking sound coming from the front end. I only get it when the wheels are turned (not all the way to the stop's) and I hit the brakes like when parking, or manuvering back and forthe to get out of a tight spot. Also get this noise when I load the suspension like when entering a driveway approach. I never hear/feel it while driving in a straight line and hitting dips or bumps. They replaced ball joints and lubed the sway bar bushings but it still does it. (It does sound different now!) I will definately take a copy of the Balance Shaft TSB and put it in their faces. They assured me that any and all TSB's had been researched by typing in the VIN.....



I will keep you all posted,



Thanks, SoCalDave

[Hirolln]

Wow what a list!!



I've got 12k on mine now and I am happy to say I haven't experianced any problems at all (knocking on wood)

I will say my truck doesn't shift the way I think it should but its not a performance car either (but heck, the $1500 tracer wagon I bought off Ebay shifts better )



After reading of your problems, I am scared to look under my truck



Good luck getting your problems resolved!!



Todd

[Steven]

Wow man I understand what your going through. You just want piece of mind and get this behind you. If not, then the lemon law will maybe help you. Personally from what I've read so far, I feel the dealer really let you down. Seems like they tried, but just failed "Properly" diagnosing your problems.



The only comment I can add to your long list of issues is that the fuel gauge will never work right while around 1/4 tank. I had the same problem and faugt light hell with the dealer to fix it. 2 gauge clusters, 1 complete wire harness, 3 fuel sending units, 1 tank later it still does what it does around 1/4 tank. My dealer finally talked to a GM technician that described the problem. First there are no baffles in the tank, allowing the fuel to more around more freely. Second is there is NO software buffer in neutral. Try it out once. Sit on a level spot, put it gear, drive to a grade, then shift into neutral,.... the gauge will move till you put it back into gear. I test drove 1 full size that had the same issue, and 3 other S10's that did the same thing. GM admits the problem but is not willing to change it cause there just aren't enough complaints about it. They do offer a software update that will help buffer the sending unit, and it does help, but does not stop the gauge from moving entirely. I've learned how to read the gauge, and try not to go below 1/4 tank.



Again, I have not had any of the issues you all have had with my truck. The transsmission does shift like a girls car,... but that's just the way it's designed. I added the B&M shifter and have been happy ever since. I've had no leaking shocks, no odd noices coming from the engine, I have no weather strip problems,... Nothing that I can really complain about other than the fuel gauge. I too was going to claim lemon law for this issue do to all the problems it had. But finally agreed with my dealer that GM just screwed up on this one. I love my truck, and have no plans on replacing it till it truely dies.



I too was looking at the taco and loved it for a second choice. The local dealers WILL NOT BEND on price. So I walked. My friends had 2 of them and no real problems, but then I haven't either. I think the dealer plays a big rule in how the customer stays happy. What they do for you leaves you with a good feeling when you leave about your GM or you end up hating GM cause of the dealer.



Sorry for the book, but I just think your dealer is screwing you, and not the entire product line. Believe me, I've owned all makes, and they all have issues. Some cars have problems, and some don't. The bottom line is you spend all this money for a "Nice New" car/truck and some times you just get s### for your dollar.



Good luck man.

[HenryJ]

I have a very loud metallic knock and creeking sound coming from the front end.

Check to see that the torsion bar sockets are properly lubed (mine have a "mess" of grease on them. I too had that sound at first but after about 15000 mi. it went away. guess it wore , or broke in.And keep the balljoints lubed at every oil change. I've seen bad ones at 12k mi. from lack of grease.



As too the trans. shifting problems. The stock tranny does shift VERY mushy. I prefer the shift firmness enhancements of the Hypertech PPIII. There are other types that work as well too.

These were built for grandma's comfort while shifting.



One thing we may not be able to change is the torque reduction feature of these trucks. That is that little lag before shifting that you can feel at times(feels kinda like slipping). The PCM reduces engine torque just before a shift to ease stress on the transmission. Even with the shift firmness installed , I can feel the troque reduction once and a while.

[Jim]

Sorry about getting off repair topic. Does anyone know if I interrupt the wire to the lock-up converter to disable it at times will cause adverse effects besides fuel mileage? On my 84 ElCamino I installed a relay that connected to the cruise control switch... disabled lock up when the stalk switch was on off position, enabled lock-up with switch at the on position. I didn't know if I'd screw things up with this newfangled chip controlled stuff. I have allot of hills @ 40 Mph in my area & in 3 it wants to lug before releasing the lock-up.

[quickbiker]

Sorry about getting off repair topic. Does anyone know if I interrupt the wire to the lock-up converter to disable it at times will cause adverse effects besides fuel mileage? On my 84 ElCamino I installed a relay that connected to the cruise control switch... disabled lock up when the stalk switch was on off position, enabled lock-up with switch at the on position. I didn't know if I'd screw things up with this newfangled chip controlled stuff. I have allot of hills @ 40 Mph in my area & in 3 it wants to lug before releasing the lock-up.

Ha! I'd like to be able to lock mine up for good on the highway. Also, is there a way to lock it in top gear without downshifting autmatically? I don't mind bog'n a bit till I'm up and over.



LOL, just love these emoticons.