Hard to start

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:55 am

This has been a problem since late winter but I've been getting by and making do and ignoring it in the hopes that it would just go away on its own. As you've probably guessed, it hasn't gone away as a matter of fact it's gotten worse.

After leaving the truck un-driven for more than a few days, it takes quite a bit of cranking and cracking and cranking to get it to turn over. And when it finally does turn over, following the cloud of white smoke from the exhaust, it sputters and knocks and idles very rough on the verge of stalling. Letting it run at idle for 15-20 minutes seems to smooth it out enough that it's drivable but it's clearly not performing at its best and gas mileage has been in the 10-12 mpg range (normally 16-18 ).

No OBD codes except for the occasional "PO300 - misfire on multiple cylinders" during rough idle but once cleared that doesn't reoccur.

As the CC is no longer my daily driver and only gets driven short trips on the weekends, I had suspected condensation in the fuel tank. I added sta-bil a few tanks back but, improvement was minimal. I've tried seafoam fuel system cleaner. Replaced the fuel filter. Run a tank of high octane gas through. All have had very minimal and short lived improvement.

I'm suspicious of pre-cat and/or catalytic converter only because of the cloud of white smoke and pungent rotten egg scent immediately after starting and the fact that idle smooths out after warm up.

I've also been suspicious of the ignition system as when I did tune up +/- 25k miles ago, I replaced the stock wires with 7mm wires and they were clearly the weak link in that chain. As I'm getting perilously close to the 100k mark, I'm thinking maybe ignition coil as well... but, if it were an ignition component, would it improve after warm up? a bad wire or coil is a bad wire or coil they don't kinda go a little, do they?

If I can think of any more details, I'll update this but, in the mean time if anyone has any suggestions... I'm all ears

Thanks in advance for any input.

purduecrew · Post by **purduecrew** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:13 am

that blasted cap and rotor have been known to give fits!!! I put a duralast on mine and a thousand miles later, I was chasing "gremlins" to the tune of almost 400 bucks of parts and labor, turns out it was a "bad" cap.

DONT BUY DURALAST CAPS!

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:08 am

How is your fuel pressure?

Does it lose pressure rapidly after the pump primes?

I had a similar problem with my Crew that was caused by a leaking valve in the fuel pump and leaking injectors.

I also got the P0300 code.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:30 pm

Fuel pump check is a good place to start. there is a thread on which gauge you need and the system checks.

Are you missing any coolant?
I am thinking intake gasket leak.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:55 am

purduecrew wrote:that blasted cap and rotor have been known to give fits!!!

AH HA... I believe I did put on a duralast cap

killian96ss wrote:How is your fuel pressure?

I haven't got a gauge to measure fuel pressure but, will keep this in mind if other less expensive remedies don't turn up results.

HenryJ wrote:Fuel pump check is a good place to start. there is a thread on which gauge you need and the system checks.

Are you missing any coolant?
I am thinking intake gasket leak.

Initially I suspected the fuel pump or leak but I haven't noticed any stains on the street or fuel smell. Also this has been going on for several months. If it were a bad fuel pump, wouldn't it have given out completely by now? or at least have gotten much worse?

This pressure test you referred to is way beyond my abilities. Again, I'll keep fuel pressure in mind if other diagnostics fail to uncover the problem. And, most likely will take the truck to a professional for such tests.

I have been keeping a close eye on the temperature gauge with the excessive idling I've been doing to smooth out the rough starts. But, I have not checked the coolant level... yet.

To do / Check List:
1. Distributor Cap
2. Fuel Pressure Gauge
3. Coolant level
4. ?

*Edit: It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the symptoms I've described are not all related to the same problem. I must admit that I've been neglecting my CC since assigning it part time status.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:07 am

barch97 wrote:... I suspected the fuel pump or leak but I haven't noticed any stains on the street or fuel smell. Also this has been going on for several months. If it were a bad fuel pump, wouldn't it have given out completely by now? or at least have gotten much worse?

The fuel leak down occurs at the fuel pump in the tank. No external signs.
This may be the only symptom you get before it fails.
Try some injector cleaner and see if that helps before you replace it.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:16 am

I did not know that. I've been thinking it's probably about time (5.5 years & 100k miles) that I had the fuel injectors cleaned anyway. A local shop advertises "complete fuel system cleaning" for ~$60. Is there any benefit to having this done by a pro as opposed to the over the counter pour in the tank cleaners?

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:03 am

Yes. They will , hopefully, do a nitrogen pressurized cleaning. This will really clean out the injection system.
If you have not been adding cleaner every other oil change, it should be a big help to get back on track.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:34 pm

'96 white smoke, but good compression?

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:44 pm

superbee wrote:did you not have coolant on the plugs????

that will tell you right there. If while smoke is going out the tailpipe you burning coolant, and a plug will be wet. im guessing several were if it took 10 mins to start it

Also, dont let good compression tell you that its not a head gasket either

That makes a lot of sense and sure sounds like a likely culprit in my case.

Although, the smoke I've observed has been a quick burst right after turn over. Not a continuous stream and only after sitting for several days. I guess it makes sense then that coolant doesn't enter the system until it reaches running temp and by that time the plugs are hot enough to not be effected by a small leak. Then after the motor cools and coolant has time to condense... the "wet" plugs now take excessive cranking to dry before getting sufficient spark to turn over. Also explains why it idles rough at first (misfire on multiple cylinders) and smooths out as the remaining "wet" plugs dry and begin to fire.

The good news is that I think I have a much better idea of where to look. The bad news is this clearly won't be an inexpensive DIY fix.

BIG thanks for all the help.

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:41 pm

do you have an automatic transmission, white smoke, indicates you could have sucked some trans fluid into the engine, which if you get too much could cause an hard start ...????

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:44 pm

All US crew cabs are automatics. Where would transmission fluid be able to enter the engine. The two do not meet.

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:28 am

Ok here, you have posted fluid enters by means of the heater control, could it not enter into the engine via the system. One always has to remember with any fluid, there is a way. White smoke indeed indicates antifreeze but also transmisson fluid.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:58 am

That is a real stretch. Fluid from the transfercase can enter the system if the switch fails, however in order to get to the engine first all the lines and the reservoir would have to fill. Then the series of check valves would need to fail. The odds of that all happening before the transfercase runs out of enough fluid to reach the engine are nearly inconceivable.
A chance, perhaps. Pretty long shot though, IMO.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:43 am

The coolant is low. Not terribly so but it's about a half inch below the rim of the cap hole in the radiator. It's definitely possible there's a leak but, I can't say for sure as I haven't been watching the level at all over the past year.

I'm still holding out a little hope that it's water that condensed in the fuel tank causing this but that hope is fading fast.

Sure not looking forward to the head or intake gasket replacement bill.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:36 pm

The expansion tank is where you should monitor the fluid level. The radiator tank should be full and free of any air.
If you are running Dex, flush and replace it now. If you have read the threads on Dex, you know that air and heat contaminate it.

Now if the expansion tank is full and you have air in the system it either came from a poor seal on the cap, or from the engine.
You have been around here long enough to have read the thread on replacing the lousy stock cap. I hope you took it seriously and replaced yours.
That leaves either an unattended and unintentional lack of fluid in the expansion tank as a cause for the low level in the radiator, or a blown head gasket introducing combustion gases. I hope it is the former rather than the latter.

Be sure to fill the expansion tank to the hot level. Flip the lever on the cap if you have a pressure relief lever, or loosen the cap and squeeze the upper radiator hose to purge the air back to the expansion tank. Once the air is purged make a mental note of the fluid level, or mark it with a grease pencil and monitor it. If you are losing coolant we need to know.

Look at the engine oil level. Has it risen? It doesn't usually look gray from water unless a huge amount has been introduced. It will have an opaque look and reddish brown.

What tests can be done? There is a coolant test kit for hydrocarbons available. It will let you know if you have a blown head gasket due to the presence of hydrocarbons in the coolant.
A pressure test of the cooling system is a very good indicator. This pump attaches to the radiator fill neck just like a cap. The system is pumped up to the maximum system pressure. This is usually less than 16 psi. If the pressure leaks off we have a leak.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:00 am

Yup, I switched to green a couple years back and the cap has been replaced twice.