Rear Brake HELP

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:44 am

So, as I was driving around last week trying to diagnose what I suspected was a wheel bearing problem, I was actually tearing up what was left of my rear brakes. I went and got a new set of pads and rotors during the week but since it's never light out while I am at home during the week and I can't fit my truck into the garage with all the kid's toys... I waited until this mornig to tackle the job of replacing the rear brakes.

So, far this isn't going nearly as smoothly as the front did a weekend ago. I'm having tremendous difficulty sliding the rotot/drum off. Is there some trick to releasing the tension on the parking brake shoes?

Second problem is that one of the slider pins on the driver's side caliper is stuck. This is I am sure the reason for the shortened life of the entire rear braking system. Does anyone know if I can get a replacement mount/slide pad carrier braket and slide pins? or do I have to get a whole new caliper? I'd like to avoid replacing the entire caliper for both financial and time reasons. I don't want to get into bleeding the system.

This wouldn't all be such an urgent problem if I didn't have this noreaster bearing down on the northeast. If I don't get this all fixed up and back together by mid afternoon... I'm gonna be working on it in a snow storm.

Thanks in advance for your prompt attention in the matter.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:14 am

You have email, I hope it helps

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:38 am

I cant seem to understand why the rears seem harder I thought they were eaiser.try knocking it off with a rubber mallet

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:42 am

I just found out at the part store why the rear is so much harder to get off... take a look at the e-brake shoe :eyeroll:

I can't find a pic right now

but it's a single shoe in a big "C" shape that I guess gets locked into position and there's no external tension release.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:44 am

f9k9 wrote:You have email, I hope it helps

Thanks... but, it's that "remove the rotor" step that had me stuck. there isn't much clarifaction in that diagram. I appreciate the help though.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:09 am

SI wrote:Park Brake Adjustment

The park brake must be adjusted any time the park brake cables have been replaced or disconnected, or if under heavy foot pressure the pedal travel is less than half the pedal total travel. Before adjusting the park brake, check the condition of the service brakes. Refer to Brake Drum Surface and Wear Inspection in Drum Brakes or Brake Pad Inspection in Disc Brakes. The rear brakes must be adjusted properly before adjusting the park brake.

1. Block the front wheels.
2. Raise the rear axle and support the rear axle with safety stands.
3. Loosen the equalizer nut.
4. Fully release the park brake pedal.
5. Tighten the equalizer nut until the rear wheels will not rotate without excessive force in a forward direction.
6. Loosen the equalizer nut until there is little or no drag when the rear wheels are rotated in a forward direction.
7. Lower the vehicle.
8. Remove the blocks from the front wheels.

"Loosen the equalizer nut" I can't a reference to it's location. I know Brule has talked about the procedure but, apparently he and Steve are busy to day.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:20 am

Found it, you have email again.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:34 am

The rotors should come off if they were correctly adjusted to begin with. All that is needed is to loosen the adjuster in the cable to release any preload from the cables.

I have seen the afore quoted adjustment data before. It is vague and poor at best. To properly adjust the brake, the "pedal method" is not a good way to go. It can lead to insufficient clearance and premature wear. I am a little groggy from a 800 mile transport, so it may only be referring to cable and pedal adjustment. If that is the case it is still poor, as the description should specify correct adjustment of the shoes prior. It does "kinda" hint that way I guess

GM data wrote:Park Brake Adjustment

Tools Required: J 21177-A Drum-to-Brake Shoe Clearance Gage

1. Remove the rear brake rotor.
2. Adjust the J 21177-A until it contacts the inside diameter of the rotor.
3. Position the J 21177-A over the park shoe lining, left side shown, at the widest point.
4. Turn the adjuster nut until the lining just contacts the J 21177-A .
5. Repeat steps 1 through 3 to adjust the right rear park brake.
6. The clearance between the rear park brake shoe lining and the rotor should be 0.66 mm (.026 in.)
7. Install the rear brake rotor.

The tool is a set of inside/outside calipers.

KD toolmakes one and I found it at my local parts store. I don't recall the price. There may even be a store that will rent the tool. Once the shoe is correctly adjusted then you can adjust the cables for pedal. Don't get carried away. You do want the cables to fully release.

If it was correctly assembled and adjusted , it should come apart. There is reference to a slide hammer that inserts into the cooling fin spaces for pulling the rotor. Few will have this tool. I would suggest a few well placed blows with a large deadblow hammer if you plan to salvage the rotor. If not then a few well placed blows with a BFH to break it loose.

Emergency brake adjustment

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:42 am

He's probably hard at work trying to beat the storm of storms that is bearing down on him. I think, I'd find a place for the toys before this happens again if, I was in his position.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:46 am

f9k9 wrote:He's probably hard at work trying to beat the storm of storms that is bearing down on him. I think, I'd find a place for the toys before this happens again if, I was in his position.

Baah! A set of coveralls and a blue tarp is all you need! "It 'aint "meck-a-neck'n" if there isn't some adversity

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:49 am

im sure there calling for as much or more in NJ as here there calling for up to 14in now up 6in from 3 hours ago

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:52 am

jeff024 wrote:im sure there calling for as much or more in NJ as here there calling for up to 14in now up 6in from 3 hours ago

OK...so maybe we will have to send the neighbors over with a shovel for retrieval after an appropriate length of time

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:09 am

A blue tarp and carhart coveralls ain't gonna help much with 14" of snow and winds up to 60 mph that I saw predicted

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:56 am

OK... here's the scoop:

that one piece shoe / drum arrangement is teh SUX. the shoe wears a groove into the drum (duh...) and then the shoe gets locked into the drum behind the lip it creates. Releasing tention is no help at all. Even if you can locate the adjuster for the wheel cylinder, it's no help. You gotta beat the crap out of the rotor on the exposed portion where the caliper mounts (after romving the caliper of course) to loosen things up. then insert an old piece of crap screm driver into the fins of the rotor at a point approximately opposite wear you were just beating it with the hammer. then beat the crap out of the screw driver with that same hammer. keep alternating back and forth until the rotor slides off effortlessly ( :BIG eyeroll: ).

Yuck... this is my least favorite repair EVAR!!!

and top it all off, my battery was dead when I finished. So, I'm off to start another discussion about battery replacement advice.

BADs Crew · Post by **BADs Crew** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:17 pm

Its just starting to flurry here in B more. I think you have the rest of the daylight hours to work outside. I feel for yaa. Been there. I swaped out a tranny B4 in a snow storm. It was no fun.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:39 pm

It got a little wet as I was starting the second wheel. But, by then I had my technique down

just switching from rain to mix of rain snow here now

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:50 pm

I would say now at 3:40pm theres 2in on the ground

bring it on

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:02 pm

barch97 wrote:... by then I had my technique down ...

Fill us in on the details. How did you adjust them for the .026 in. clearance? What did you use to measure?

Post by **Walt** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:08 pm

You right coast guys get ready....that storm dumped alot of rain on us here in MS. Good offroading weather down here

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:30 pm

HenryJ wrote:
barch97 wrote:... by then I had my technique down ...
Fill us in on the details. How did you adjust them for the .026 in. clearance? What did you use to measure?

self adjusting wheel cylinders

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:26 pm

barch97 wrote:
HenryJ wrote:
barch97 wrote:... by then I had my technique down ...
Fill us in on the details. How did you adjust them for the .026 in. clearance? What did you use to measure?
self adjusting wheel cylinders

Oh , I am sorry you did not state the answer in the form of a question. The answer is...what did I forget to do?

Actually you are both right and wrong.

The rear service brakes are indeed hydraulic and self adjust, however the emergency brake is mechanical and requires manual adjustment. It must be clearanced prior to installation of the rotor/hat.

When servicing the rear brakes you are servicing two separate systems. The disc service brake system with pads and rotor, that are self adjusting, as well as the drum and shoe emergency brake that is mechanical and not self adjusting.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:58 pm

hmm.. I was not aware of that. Nor did I make any such adjustment. That does explain why the p-brake goes almost to the floor though... I guess I oughta adjust that a lil, huh?

When I said I had my technique down, I was referring to the proper way to beat the crap out of the rotor to remove it.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:03 pm

barch97 wrote:hmm.. I was not aware of that. Nor did I make any such adjustment. That does explain why the p-brake goes almost to the floor though...

The last email has an alternative to adjusting your parking brake. Sans GM specialized tool, it may help.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:05 pm

Thanks, Reed. As always, quick with the help and never a coy jab.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:11 pm

barch97 wrote:...When I said I had my technique down, I was referring to the proper way to beat the crap out of the rotor to remove it.

Excellent! Proper wielding of a heavy weapon is an asset

Now try to refrain from using the parking brake until you can disassemble the assembly and correctly adjust the e-brake shoes. It can not be done by adjusting the cables alone.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:46 am

Just for clarification here, even though the posts appears MUCH earlier in the discussion

HenryJ wrote:Mr Smartypants' step by step instructions with diagrams and such

wasn't actually posted until: "Last edited by HenryJ on Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:25 pm; edited 2 times in total"

By that time, the storm had arrived and my truck was back together, tools returned to the safety of my garage.

"PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:56 pm"

barch97 wrote:and top it all off, my battery was dead when I finished. So, I'm off to start another discussion about battery replacement advice.

Maybe the point there was to educate the next person that came along with the same problem.

On the otherhand, this would have be terrifically helpful information to me had it been posted after I asked for advice on rear brake change back on "PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:18 pm"

barch97 wrote:So, any reason why I shouldn't go with the cheapest rotors and ceramic pads I can find for the rear? Stock lasted nearly 86k miles, how much braking does the rear even do?

Thanks again to everyone that made themselves available to assist me when I asked for help.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:33 am

barch97 wrote:Just for clarification here, even though the posts appears MUCH earlier in the discussion
HenryJ wrote:Mr Smartypants' step by step instructions with diagrams and such
wasn't actually posted until: "Last edited by HenryJ on Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:25 pm; edited 2 times in total"...Maybe the point there was to educate the next person that came along with the same problem.

I'm not sure where that post came from, but if I indeed did use Mr Smartypants' I sincerely apologize. My comments were directed to the forum population, although you guys did take the beating.

the point there was to educate the next person that came along with the same problem. That says it all.

Many times I search only to find a thread with the same problem and no information. I do my best to delete these threads. What I am trying to do is keep this site informative, not a chat room. Post as if you want a guest with the same problem to understand exactly what to do.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:05 am

HenryJ wrote:The rotors should come off if they were correctly adjusted to begin with. All that is needed is to loosen the adjuster in the cable to release any preload from the cables.

I have seen the afore quoted adjustment data before. It is vague and poor at best. To properly adjust the brake, the "pedal method" is not a good way to go. It can lead to insufficient clearance and premature wear. I am a little groggy from a 800 mile transport, so it may only be referring to cable and pedal adjustment. If that is the case it is still poor, as the description should specify correct adjustment of the shoes prior. It does "kinda" hint that way I guess

GM data wrote:Park Brake Adjustment

Tools Required: J 21177-A Drum-to-Brake Shoe Clearance Gage

1. Remove the rear brake rotor.
2. Adjust the J 21177-A until it contacts the inside diameter of the rotor.
3. Position the J 21177-A over the park shoe lining, left side shown, at the widest point.
4. Turn the adjuster nut until the lining just contacts the J 21177-A .
5. Repeat steps 1 through 3 to adjust the right rear park brake.
6. The clearance between the rear park brake shoe lining and the rotor should be 0.66 mm (.026 in.)
7. Install the rear brake rotor.

The tool is a set of inside/outside calipers.

KD toolmakes one and I found it at my local parts store. I don't recall the price. There may even be a store that will rent the tool. Once the shoe is correctly adjusted then you can adjust the cables for pedal. Don't get carried away. You do want the cables to fully release.

If it was correctly assembled and adjusted , it should come apart. There is reference to a slide hammer that inserts into the cooling fin spaces for pulling the rotor. Few will have this tool. I would suggest a few well placed blows with a large deadblow hammer if you plan to salvage the rotor. If not then a few well placed blows with a BFH to break it loose.

Emergency brake adjustment

Use gauge to set the proper clearance between brake lining and drum from 6-1/2 to 14-1/4" (160 to 360mm) in diameter Inside calipers measure drum diameters and outside calipers transfer measurement to brake shoes. Knurled knob locks tool at measurement. It is calibrated in 1/64" increments.

0.026" is somewhere between 3/128" and 7/256". So, to achieve an accurate .026" measurement with that tool I imagine you'll need to slide a feeler gauge between the face of the caliper and the drum?

This may work instead. Accurate to 1/1000". Although, I'm not sure the 7/8'' inside jaw depth will be adequate to reach the inner drum.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:59 pm

barch97 wrote:... to achieve an accurate .026" measurement with that tool I imagine you'll need to slide a feeler gauge between the face of the caliper and the drum?

Yes. That is exactly what I use. The markings on the tool can be helpful in determining the maximum diameter, but other than that they are just a glorified I/O caliper

This may work instead. Accurate to 1/1000". Although, I'm not sure the 7/8'' inside jaw depth will be adequate to reach the inner drum.

Those would be better than nothing. I don't know if they would be long enough to go over the hub and reach the shoes though. It is listed as 2-7/8'' outside. You're right about the drum too. I can't remember if 7/8" would go in deep enough.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:38 pm

I had to get a new rear caliper for the driver's side. It was pretty frozen. Cheap, under $50 for a rebuilt. Pretty easy job too. Did a rear brake job as well while I was at it. Now the parking brake barely... brakes. Still keeps it in place though.