"Check engine soon" light anyone?

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:43 pm

OK, got the 'ol "Check engine soon" light now. Anyone get this yet? I'm wondering if it's just something that turns on at a certain mileage, then I just gotta reset it. It came on right about 64,155 miles.

I just ordered the Actron super scanner to see what up, a good excuse to get it anyhow.

Made the loong url a link-HJ

Eric H · Post by **Eric H** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Mine came on when I had about 32,000 miles on my truck. It was fixed under warranty. Here's what the write-up said:

"Scope and scan system DTC P0128 ECT ERROR. DTC P0442 Evap
small leak. DTC 90410 Air System. Tested and found the
T-Stat sticking open. Tested and found the fuel cap not
sealing. Tested and found the air pump seized due to the
check valves were blown.
Replaced the T-Stat. Replaced the fuel cap. Replaced the
right and left air pump check valves. Replaced the air
pump and fuse. Cleared DTC's Rechecked OK."

-Eric H

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:04 pm

ya, mine was on. just take the bulb out..or put tape over it

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:19 am

a2b wrote:ya, mine was on. just take the bulb out..or put tape over it

Yeah, that works! Never be bothered by that pesky check engine light again!

Retep · Post by **Retep** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:26 am

I ignored a check engine light on my old Cavalier and it cost me big $.
The light came on and I thought nothing of it because the car was running fine. after 2 weeks it just quit on me. Turned out I had a crank position sensor going bad. Cheep part. Because I ignored it, the sensor got worse and caused an electrical spike and fried the whole ignition system. Not cheep.

I no longer ignore "Service Engine Soon" lights.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:16 am

I threw a light Sunday morning. Had it checked and the read out advised my coolant temp was low. Have the 180 degree one and may have to put the stock one back in. Tried unhooking the battery and turning ignition on and off but, I still have it.

adrenalnjunky · Post by **adrenalnjunky** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:18 pm

I got that same Evap code twice -- one time it was my body lift fuel filler extension not sealing, the other time I had cross threaded my fuel cap and it was leaking air.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:35 pm

Retep wrote:I ignored a check engine light on my old Cavalier and it cost me big $.
The light came on and I thought nothing of it because the car was running fine. after 2 weeks it just quit on me. Turned out I had a crank position sensor going bad. Cheep part. Because I ignored it, the sensor got worse and caused an electrical spike and fried the whole ignition system. Not cheep.

I no longer ignore "Service Engine Soon" lights.

I'm convinced I'm replacing a motor in my Blazer because someone ignored a light. Of course 222k miiles might have something to do with it too!

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:34 am

quickbiker wrote:OK, got the 'ol "Check engine soon" light now. Anyone get this yet? I'm wondering if it's just something that turns on at a certain mileage, then I just gotta reset it. It came on right about 64,155 miles.

I just ordered the Actron super scanner to see what up, a good excuse to get it anyhow.

Made the loong url a link-HJ

Mine came on last mnight on way home from work with about the same milage. Any news yet?

SES Light on steady wrote:An emission control system malfunction has been detected on your vehicle. Dealer or qualified service center diagnosis and service may be required.

So, I checked the obvious; Air filter still looks like new, electrical connections along air intake are clean and shiny (gave 'em a shot of crc for good measure). I guess I'm off to the shop for a reading...

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:02 am

PO 102 - MAF
PO 440 - Evap Sys Failure

So, gotta go to another joint with an evap tester on Tuesday.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:56 pm

a2b wrote:ya, mine was on. just take the bulb out..or put tape over it

Ha, actually I did put a piece of electrical tape over it till my OBD tester comes in, which should be this week. Woohoo!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:27 pm

I checked out the prices on the "Actron super scanner" and Quickbiker got a good deal on it but, I am still under warranty (to use the term lossely) and battling my dealership so, I skimped and picked up the code reader at O'Rielly's for $119 marked down from $149.

This morning I saw the same model at Wallyworld for $98.00

It confirmed Advance's code read so I put a stock 195 degree T-stat back in and erased the current DTC error and it has been good for almost a week now.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:54 am

I filled up the gas and moments later the light went off... I guess it was the ol' loose fitting gas gap error.

Post by **Walt** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:54 am

a2b wrote:ya, mine was on. just take the bulb out..or put tape over it

Get a sticker that says "You da man!" and stick it over it. Now anytime the light comes on, it'll illuminate the sticker

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:29 am

My SES light came on constantly and I ended up with a new motor. The code will still be in the system until is has to be cleared. I was told that the light will stay lit until 5-10 ignition cycles (when the code isn't thrown again) but it is still stored into the computer.

duglasfur · Post by **duglasfur** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:53 am

Mine was the T-stat, but it would go on and off depending on outside temps. Also at 64K make sure your belt looks OK, mine was cracking and starting to chunk.

barch97 · Post by **barch97** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:43 pm

yeah, they been tellin' me to replace the belt for the past four or five oil changes.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:55 pm

Ha, yea, I've been mean'n to replace my belt also, it's got inside cracks. I did finally receive my Actatron reader. It worked great. Found out that it is part of the air pollution junk on it. Only has to do with the first couple min of warm up. It's the secondary air flow that pumps air to the exhaust manifold. So it says it is ether of 2 thing. 1) The air hose going to the manifold, or 2) The air pump relay valve thingy do. I really don't have the time to mess with frivolous garbagioulous, so I cleared the code. See if it comes back later, then mess with it when I got time. The code was P0410. That superscanner is really kewl gadget. Nice tool. I also got an extra cable to work with OBD I for my Camaro. And it will work with my wife's Jeep. Shweet!

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:52 am

Found this from here: http://forums.s-series.org/viewtopic.php?p=237952

I haven't checked it out soon, but will.

-------------------------

There's several possible common causes of P0410 on S/T trucks.
First check the 2 fuses located inside the passenger's front fender next to the battery. There's a large 30amp "Maxi-fuse" that feeds the electric AIR pump through the relay there, and a smaller 10 amp fuse that feeds the vacuum solenoid on the pump.

If the large fuse is burned check the pump and hoses for water, any water inside will rust and/or freeze the pump and pop that fuse, you will need to replace the fuse, the pump, and repair the water intrusion.
The causes of water in the pump are:
road water sucked into the pump intake hose
condensation from defective check valves on the AIR tubes of each exhaust manifold

To reduce water getting sucked into the intake hose (located near the bottom of the right side fan shroud), replace the hose with a longer piece of heater hose and route it under the battery and put a AC "FB51" air filter breather on the end of the hose.

To repair condensation replace both black metal check-valves at each AIR tube to ex manifold.

Next common failure is the vacuum solenoid. -located on the pump (under the radiator support passenger's side)

To test the solenoid use a Tech 2 or bi-directional scan tool to command the pump on with the engine running, check the vacuum at both sides of the solenoid it should turn on and allow vacuum to pass through and shut off/close when commanded off. If it doesn't, test for power and ground to the solenoid, if power and ground are ok replace the solenoid.

Next common cause is a loose ground wire under the battery on the radiator support, there are 2 of them, they have to be clean and tight.

To test the system with a Tech 2, command the pump on and monitor O2 voltages, they should drop to 4mv and stay there as long as the pump is on.

It's a sucky design with poorly built parts, so good luck.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:31 pm

Well, I'm done with my fixit job for P0410. Total spent to fix: about $4. I just put in a new fuse and an breather element. Couldn't find an FB51, but just used something with the same diameter for the hose. Started it up and it was suck'n air good, checked the fuse and still good. All I can figure out what happened was that not long before I got that DTC, I drove through about the thickest down pour of rain that I ever remember, it was like driving under water, lol. On my truck, the intake hose comes out right behind the radiator on the edge of the passenger side. So I figure it just blew a bunch of water in it and blew the fuse. So, I think I'm good to go now. Doesn't really make any sense why they would not put some kind of filter on it, or route it somewhere where it wouldn't suck any water. Oh well.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:39 pm

quickbiker wrote:...Doesn't really make any sense why they would not put some kind of filter on it, or route it somewhere where it wouldn't suck any water. Oh well.

Sounds like it is time for me to do some preventive maintenance and add a filter, as well as relocate that hose!

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:32 am

Well, it came on again, same thing. So I ordered the pump and 2 check valves from here: http://rockauto.com

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:35 pm

I replaced the air pump and 2 check valves. The driverside check valve was definitely shot. Air would flow freely both directions which is no good. Allot of water poured out of the hoses when I took it all apart. So it looks like the system deteration was due to a faulty check valve which causes condensation into the system. I ended up taking the breather element off the inlet. I figure it isn't designed to be run like that and may prevent free air flow and any proper drying of the system. All operating good now.

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:27 pm

ya i had the same problems with my 01 at about 30,000

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:38 pm

Well, 3 years later, and 104k miles, my secondary pump is shot again. Ordering another pump and check valves. Although I am thinking of skipping the valves this time, but probably shouldn't. Musta been that flooded out dirt road I splashed through too fast. I gotta get some kinda cover on that hose.

drperry · Post by **drperry** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:43 am

I've splashed through some pretty deep stuff, and had my engine hydro locked... so something else might be causing the issue...

My truck throws the code for the after cat O2 sensor whenever I floor it for more than 3 seconds once the truck is at operating temps

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:43 pm

K&N filter part # 62-1030 is a perfect fit for the air pump inlet hose and it will prevent water and dirt contamination.

I used the same filter on my 01 CC with good results.

Summit sells this filter for $16.69

Steve

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:03 pm

drperry wrote:I've splashed through some pretty deep stuff, and had my engine hydro locked... so something else might be causing the issue...

My truck throws the code for the after cat O2 sensor whenever I floor it for more than 3 seconds once the truck is at operating temps

Yea, mine will hit that code also when floored if I don't have it programmed for the high performance, so I just keep it programmed for the higher performance at 93 octane, and that code doesn't set.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:05 pm

killian96ss wrote:K&N filter part # 62-1030 is a perfect fit for the air pump inlet hose and it will prevent water and dirt contamination.

I used the same filter on my 01 CC with good results.

Summit sells this filter for $16.69

Steve

Kewl, I may check that out. I was thinking just to extend the hose somewhere else, but I was going to do that before and never got around to it. And I know it was on it's way going bad. I heard it gurgling the past few months when I start it cold. Ugh.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:10 pm

I ordered the pump and new check valves, still waiting on the check valves. I also got the filter from summit. I also got the Trans-Dapt Performance Swirl-Torque TBI Spacer. The gasket looks a bit cheesy, but the reviews looked fairly good on jcwhitney. Anyone ever try one?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:24 pm

Most but not all of the swirl type TB spacers make a whistling sound and create turbulence rather than speeding up the airflow as they claim.

Smooth bore TB spacer are usually better at making a little more power and increasing gas mileage slightly.

IMHO, Powerdyne currently make the best TB spacer due to their unique design that compresses air to speed up air flow.

I also like the o-ring seals better than the paper gaskets.

The best thing I can see about the Trans Dapt TB spacer is the price which is half of what some of the others cost.

Expect a "realistic" gain of about 2-5 hp and 1-2 mpg.

Steve

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:48 pm

Hey Steve. Where's the Powerdyne available?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:29 pm

roadrunner wrote:Hey Steve. Where's the Powerdyne available?

I got mine @ Summit, but I can't locate the part # right now.

I do remember paying about $100.

Steve

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:51 pm

I did like the price, but that's not all I looked at. I see it is advertised as low to mid range power add, and that's what I want, not red-line. And the reviews seemed better than other brands. And it is the non-whistle type. It is a paper type, but it looks seems to be made tough. It has some kind of metal in the middle of the paper, kinda like a good quality head gasket. I've never had any problems with this type of gasket round the intake before (knock on wood). And if I can get 1-2 more mpg, I will consider it very much worth it. I got it more to save gas than make power, but that's always a benefit.

I'm still waiting on my check valves to come in to do all the work together with the pump install. Should be in this week.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:46 pm

Thanks Killian, that small air filter fit like a glove! And this time the check valves don't need replaced, they seemed to block reverse air just fine. And the fuse didn't blow either.

I also did the TD TB spacer. It was a breeze to install. I had to dig up a small spacer for one part that the kit didn't seem to take care of, unless I missed something. A small road test feels like a bit more power, I'm just hoping for a bit more gas savings! And not a bit of whistling. I only used the paper/metal gasket on the top of it, cause the rubber seal was still in good shape on the bottom.

williamcstonejr · Post by **williamcstonejr** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:41 am

Sounds like you have it all handled but just in case you may find some of these code that would result from the original P0410. Sorry for the book.

P0410
Circuit Description

The Secondary Air Injection (AIR) System is designed to lower exhaust emission levels during a cold or warm start. The AIR pump is timed to remain ON for approximately one minute after the engine is started.

The powertrain control module (PCM) commands the AIR pump relay ON by supplying a ground on the control circuit. This action energizes the AIR pump, forcing air into the exhaust stream. The PCM also commands the AIR vacuum control solenoid valve ON which applies vacuum to the AIR shut-off valve. When vacuum is applied to the AIR shut-off valve, airflow from the AIR pump flows through the hoses/pipes and to the exhaust check valves. The air then enters into the exhaust stream. The air that is introduced into the exhaust system accelerates catalyst operation by decreasing the time it takes for the convertor to begin its process of burning the incomplete gases; reducing engine exhaust emission levels. When inactive, the check valves and the shut-off valve prevent airflow in either direction.

The PCM detects a system airflow problem by monitoring the heated oxygen sensors (HO2S) and short term fuel trim during normal Open Loop AIR system operation. This is called a passive test. If the passive test indicates a pass, the PCM takes no further action. If the passive test fails or is inconclusive, the diagnostic will proceed with an intrusive or active tests. The PCM will command the AIR system ON during Closed Loop operation under normal operating conditions. The active test will pass or fail based on the response from the HO2S. A lean HO2S response indicates that the secondary AIR system is functioning normally. An increasing short term fuel trim value also indicates a normally functioning system. The AIR diagnostic consists of the passive test and the active tests. The AIR diagnostic requires failure of the passive and active tests on two consecutive key cycles to illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) and store a DTC. If the PCM detects that the HO2S and short term FT did not respond as expected on one of the engine banks, DTC P1415 or P1416 sets. If the PCM detects that the HO2S and short term FT did not respond as expected on both of the engine banks, DTC P0410 sets.

Fishinandgettin · Post by **Fishinandgettin** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:09 pm

I've had three of them in the last year. I have 52,000 on it and treat it like a baby.

1- gas cap
2- thermostat
3- o2 sensor Bank 2 #1

All fixed as of now. Good luck.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:54 pm

Fishinandgettin wrote:I've had three of them in the last year.

I had so many over 6 months about a year ago I finally bought a scanner so I could check them out and clear codes without going to a dealer or parts store. It's been behaving itself now for several months.

Hope it keeps it up.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:38 pm

I got one yesterday, no idea what it was and it went off. Pinned it going uphill, shifted about 75 almost redline, ses came on, flashed, then went off. Temperature maybe? It was 14*F out.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:53 am

green02crew wrote:I got one yesterday, no idea what it was and it went off. Pinned it going uphill, shifted about 75 almost redline, ses came on, flashed, then went off. Temperature maybe? It was 14*F out.

From your description sounds more likely fuel or air/fuel ratio related. Only time mine has ever "flashed" was when I broke a front y pipe and too much O2 entered system causing full rich on sensors. Pipe repaired codes cleared and no more lights. BTW your code should still be stored in memory if you have scanner. History codes won't generally go away, even if the condition that caused them is corrected, untill cleared or battery disconnected. Good luck!

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:17 pm

That filter ended up not working out. It sets the pump code about every 2-3 days, took it off and it's been fine for a couple weeks now. I guess that's why that didn't put a filter on it. Instead of engineering it correctly, that was the quickest fix I guess.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:21 pm

Bad check valves?

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:26 pm

Nope, they good, I checked them. Now the last I replaced the pump, they were bad, and I replaced them, but this time they were good.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:26 pm

Nope, they good, I checked them. Now the last I replaced the pump, they were bad, and I replaced them, but this time they were good.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:59 pm

Interesting you took off filter and no codes? Coincidence perhaps? If air flow through the pump or lack thereof would set a code I should've set tons of em a while back. When I decided it was failed check valves on mine I plugged the line after the air pump and before the check valves to check out. (plugged so neither end could leak either exhaust out or air pump air out either so pump was dead-headed at that point) Ran it that way for three weeks with no codes set. Didn't unhook anything else in the system either at the time.

S-10CREWCAB.NET

"Check engine soon" light anyone?

"Check engine soon" light anyone?

Re: "Check engine soon" light anyone?

Future codes that may arise from the original P0410