Die Grinders, I need them explained

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:18 pm

Like always I am having a hellava time doing the simplest mod. I am trying to install the Summit off road lights on my cargo basket. Because their shock resistance design the lights need a large hole to be drilled for them to mount on my brackets.

Most assinine design I have ever seen. I called Summit tech support (my dime) and they tried to tell me that I just needed a hole large enough for the bolt. He finally went and looked at one and agreed with me.

Anyway, I have one unibit or step drill bit and I went clean through the bracket and am still lacking, at least 1/4". I went out and hit five local stores to find a larger unibit.

I found one but it was $87 so, I shelved the lights one again. Wallyworld has die grinders for $20. Can I use a die grinder to enlarge the holes? What kind of a "bit" would I need. What else could I use it for? I have a decent air compressor so, I am looking at that style.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:03 pm

A die grinder will work great. Get a Christmas tree carbide bit. They are a little pricey, but last a long time and will be useful for many tasks.
The bit may be called a rotary file, or Carbide burr.

American Carbide

I like the ones with the rounded point. Your local hardware store should have them.

This one is close, but the sides need to be a little straighter.

Amazon ball head cylindrical

This one would be a good one. I like it too.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:22 pm

Thanks, Brule

What is the difference between a standard cut and a double cut? $33 may seem pricey but way cheaper than $87. If, I purchased the wallyword die grinder and the priciest xmas tree thingy then I am at $58 I have a tool that may be used for other purposes. I know that Chris/cknaffle told me to use one to enlarge the holes on my sliders if they didn't match up to my stock ZR5 nerf bar bolts but, I goggled die grinders and couldn't really find out much in the way of what they can do. You pretty well know what I have now in the way of tools. Is this a worthwhile investment?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:35 pm

You are looking at a 1/4" chuck air operated die grinder right?

Northern Industrial 1/4in. Air Die Grinder

A good investment for sure. You should be able to find a half way decent bit for about $20 or less depending upon the shape and size. They range from $5-up usually. A simple 1/4" straight bit would be the cheapest.

I don't know the difference between the double and single cut. Perhaps a Google would explain it? I use the style with the edges like pictured above.
These are metal eating "suns'a-guns".

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:47 pm

I can only guess it was a 1/4" one. The brand escapes me but, am sure you have seen their compressors and tools at wallyworld. Does Campbell Hausfeld sound right? So, I read where you can port and polish with them as well?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:29 pm

Oh, yeah.

Use the burrs to rough out and port match. You will need an assortment of lengths. Then move to sandpaper rolls to even things out. Finish with flapper wheels to start the polishing. From there move to the felt bobs and abrasive compounds.

Aluminum use different compounds and bits. The carbide bits will work if you keep them cool and lubricated. I mostly use the sandpaper rolls and flappers, then move to the felt bobs and cotton wheels. There are different rouges used for aluminum, stainless steel, glass, etc.

It is a ton of work. I have done enough to know better. It is much better to pay for the polishing if you have a rough cast to start with

I have done quite a bit of head work and block deburring though. Polishing a lifter gallery , port matching the intake and heads are easy ways to add that extra edge.

Once you own one, I think you will find the round files get used for only a the smallest of work. The die grinder makes quick work of it. Be careful and get a good grip/stance. They can chatter around a hole if you don't have a firm steady grip. Don't hurt someone.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:46 pm

Thanks for all the info. I was able to find the safety precautions, just not what all they can be used for. The "trigger" looks a little different at first glance and I know that I'll probably "chatter" right out of the holes I am trying to enlarge and will have to repaint their pretty finish (for the 3rd time)

Do you think the conical shaped one is best for my current need?

rlrnr53 · Post by **rlrnr53** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:50 pm

I have to agree with Brule, Keep a good grip on the die grinder. The worst thing about these suckers is that they throw metal shavings EVERYWHERE. I used one last week, and I'm still digging shavings out of my hands and clothes.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:06 pm

f9k9 wrote:...Do you think the conical shaped one is best for my current need?

A medium sized straight bit would do the job. Half the diameter of the hole for the bit size would be a good plan. If the bit is too big, it will chatter. If it is too small it is hard to make an even , round hole. If you want it shaped like a shamrock use the small bit

I like the "conical" shaped bits for their versatility. The small tip can be used in small holes. As the need for a larger hole presents, move the bit in deeper.
I find it easier to insert the small tip and work to the diameter that I need. The rounded end is a little more forgiving. The sharp end will cut a sharp edge. You could create a stepped hole with it. I find the rounded end easier to smooth out. It is less likely to bite an edge too.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:39 pm

Maybe the pics of the insanity that I am dealing with will help and for you to realize that "clover leafs" wouldn't be all that bad in this scenario.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:54 pm

So you plan to hog it out for that rubber piece? That will commit you to that mount forever. What happens when you rip those lights off in the trees and can no longer get them again?

How about cutting the top rubber piece off and drop the center into the lower. Then bolt it up.

I am not there and can not really offer a good judgment from a distance. I would be hesitant to cut a huge hole on the rack though.

If you want a nice hole, get a holesaw the correct size. Clamp a block of wood to the bottom side and use it to pilot the hole to be cut.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:16 pm

Thought of that and also tried flipping that big end up into part of the bracket housing. I thought of some good thick coal conveyor belt material as well. I have one bracket cut the size of my unibit so, it is toast and too small for this application. Would be glad to send you one of those metal thingys to get the diameter and pay you for your time.

WVHogRider · Post by **WVHogRider** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:13 am

I'm not sure if you have a Dremel tool or not, but if you do, you may have a die grinding attachment with it. I know my dremel came with all the die grinder and port polish attachments included. If you don't have that in your kit, you could always just pick up the bits at a hardware store. I know a Dremel doesn't have the power of the air power die grinder, which may allow you a little more finesse in your cutting, but will probably add time to the project. Just my $.02.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:54 pm

f9k9 wrote:Would be glad to send you one of those metal thingys to get the diameter and pay you for your time.

What needs to be done with a metal thingy?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:54 pm

HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:Would be glad to send you one of those metal thingys to get the diameter and pay you for your time.
What needs to be done with a metal thingy?

Just to be used as a template to cut some sort of rubber/synthetic grommets with. I'm trying to think of a source to get some material to use. Conveyor belt may be to stout plus, I no longer have a source to get some from.

WVHogRider · Post by **WVHogRider** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:08 pm

f9k9 wrote:
HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:Would be glad to send you one of those metal thingys to get the diameter and pay you for your time.
What needs to be done with a metal thingy?
Just to be used as a template to cut some sort of rubber/synthetic grommets with. I'm trying to think of a source to get some material to use. Conveyor belt may be to stout plus, I no longer have a source to get some from.

If conveyor belt is too stout, what about a truck/tractor tire inner tube? Not sure about around you, but I can pick'em up cheap at numerous tire dealers/farm supply places here.

Or grab your cordless drill with a hole saw/drill bit, and find the nearest spare worn tire you can find and dig into the side wall.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:15 pm

WVHogRider wrote:...... Or grab your cordless drill with a hole saw/drill bit, and find the nearest spare worn tire you can find and dig into the side wall.

That's a good thought. Any curvature would be eliminated once the bolt is tightened. I would think a cheap hole saw would work if there were no metal belts in the sidewall.

WVHogRider · Post by **WVHogRider** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:30 pm

Check with Philpot's Tire Center or Parsley's General Tire, among many other used tire handlers, in London to see if have any or know where you can find some bias ply used tire.

I did a quick internet search for your area.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:39 pm

Why can't the supplied pieces be used? Cut the stem off of the mushroom and drop it into the doughnut.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:33 am

HenryJ wrote:Why can't the supplied pieces be used? Cut the stem off of the mushroom and drop it into the doughnut.

Well, I guess the reasons for not doing it that way is.......

1) entirely too easy
2) no ducks would be lost
3) I wouldn't of learned anything about die grinders
4) I never thought of it

I thought about cutting it off but, not combining the the cut piece and the donut

Thanks

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:36 pm

Okay quick question, Brule. I need to modify a "bolt on" (am using the term loosely) a 3/16" steel skid plate. I guess that I am talking about <6 sq in. Would the die cutter be up to the task with the bits that you mentioned?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:47 pm

I am not sure what modifications you intend to make.
I would not use the die grinder as a cut off tool. It is just too hard to keep straight on heavier steel. You will slip or grab and break a disk. Those pieces can do damage: Do not click if you have a weak stomach and really still want to do the work yourself.

If you are cutting or trimming, I would suggest a 4" grinder with a cut off disk. These are 1/16"-1/8" abrasive disks that mount to the small grinder for cutting steel.

If you are "hogging out" holes, or opening up and rounding edges, then a die grinder with a carbide burr may be a better choice. More than 1/8" of material may call for "bigger guns" though.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:13 pm

HenryJ wrote:Do not click if you have a weak stomach and really still want to do the work yourself.

A couple inches lower and he would have lost an eye!

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:24 pm

What I am trying to do is notch the skid and it doesn't need to be a straight line. I am having troubles with the ujoints on the front drive shaft contacting the Rubi's skid when flexed. I had to eliminate the stock tranny skid when I lifted. This "bolt on" was supposed to eliminate any problems plus give the oil pan protection. I have already had to modify the exhaust to make it work and now this current problem. I am not holding my breath counting on the manufacturer coming through with a fix so, I am making plans of my own.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:28 pm

Drill the corners with the size radius you desire. Maybe 3/8"? 1/2"? Sawzall for the straight in cuts inward. Then a deep score with the cut off wheel on a grinder or die grinder and disk. Either will work.
Wiggle the piece back a forth to break it out and file the edges to true it up.

Another option would be to use a large hole saw to cut the majority and then use the sawzall to cut in to that from the side opening it up. That might be the cleanest way.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:44 pm

HenryJ wrote:Drill the corners with the size radius you desire. Maybe 3/8"? 1/2"? Sawzall for the straight in cuts inward..........................

Excellent, thank you Brule. Sawzall blade recommendations? I am not picking the right blades for some reason. It is powder coated 3/16" which does not seem thick to me but, it is pretty stout.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:47 pm

HenryJ wrote:...................Another option would be to use a large hole saw to cut the majority and then use the sawzall to cut in to that from the side opening it up. That might be the cleanest way.

You snuck this in after I saw your thread. Recommendation on the hole saw?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:00 pm

Home depot has some affordable hole saws to choose from. I don't know how wide you need it at the base of the cut. That would be your diameter. 1.5" or 2"? RIGID Bimetal have been doing pretty good for me.

Stuff a wet paper towel inside the hole saw to keep it cool and mist it with a sprayer now and then, Heat kills them. Keep it cool and it will last a long time. Use a wood block underneath for support and for the pilot to bite into.

For blades I like the Milwaukee Bi-metal. Probably 24T (24 teeth per inch) They run $2-$2.50 each in a six pack.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:14 pm

Outstanding Brule! Gotta love you and the many others that provide assistance here for non CC problems! Lemme see, hmmmm, electrical breakers, several plumbing issues (not including water heaters), computers, cameras.......etc! You had to explain what a sawzall was to me three years ago and now, I am asking for blade recommendations

I am getting the fishing part down pat but, we still need to do something about these "frakin" suicidal waterfowl!

Thank you!!

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:34 pm

I finally got around to this problem today. I had previously ignored Brule's suggestion and tried to elongate the skids bolt holes and slide it over away from the front ds. $10, a demise of a die cutter bit and a work out for my compressor and I saw that not working. I invested in a 2" hole cutter, a a few good sawzall blades (just needed one) and it was done. Looked a lot better before mounting but, I doubt if, I have ann more problems between the skid and front ds.