S-10CREWCAB.NET

That's right, the idiot who ordered the truck from the factory got the tow hitch and the 3.73 gears but did not get the G80 locker. I can tell just from the one wheel spin I get when punching the throttle from a dead stop in a corner but I also scoured the RPO sheet and no G80. That's why I was crowing when I got over the rocks on the Crotched Mountain run.

04crewvt wrote:That's right, the idiot who ordered...did not get the G80 locker.

If trail riding like that continues to be of interest, a locker or limited slip differential might be a good investment.

There are several ways to go. A good salvage yard Eaton Gov-loc is an option. I installed one of those in my old S-10 and have had no problems.

A new posi/limited slip carrier, or locking differential carrier insalled. That may run upward of $1000 with installation costs. This is probably the safest bet. New parts, New installation. Guarantees.

How about finding a good used ZR2 8.5" differential? The track bar mount may need to be trimmed off. Our shock brackets mount to the spring retainer, so the forward mounted ZR2 right hand shock should not be an issue. I really think it is "do-able". That is the direction I would look. I am keeping my eyes open for a good one to show up around here. I'd like to swap just for the wider track.

Another option would be the "lunchbox lockers" these replace the spiders. They are a very easy install, but are better for a rig that spends most of the time offroad. I had one take the clutch springs out of my old S-10, since then I have not been a fan. I would never use one again, but others have had good luck with them. Long term I don't see them as an option for the toll they take on the drivetrain.

Some things to think about.

I had the Eaton posi unit installed in my 95 blazer when I had the rear end rebuilt I liked it. I have thought about the Powertrax unit, it is supposed to be good on and off road but for now finding a new place to live takes precedence over any truck mods, or trail runs for that matter.

A word about lockers. the WVDOH in 92 bought 1 tom shop trucks that some idoit talked them into installing Detroit lockers in the rear axle. Those things would lock up on wet roads a nd push you off the road if you were not quick enough getting off the throttle. I had one lock up running on a dry road that madme think that I had been rear ended when it unlocked. lockers may be good on the track or off road, but they are dangerous on road.

rlrnr53 wrote:...some idoit talked them into installing Detroit lockers in the rear axle. Those things would lock up on wet roads a nd push you off the road if you were not quick enough getting off the throttle. I had one lock up running on a dry road that made me think that I had been rear ended when it unlocked. lockers may be good on the track or off road, but they are dangerous on road.

I am not really sure what they installed, but it sounds suspiciously like Powertrax Lockright lockers.

Lockers do not really "lock in" like our Eaton GovLoc differential. They are locked all the time, and ratchet around corners on hard surfaces without the pressure of acceleration. The Detroit Lockers are a quality unit and really work well. You would not know it was there other than a slight clicking sound when turning corners, and having both rear wheels turning when pushing it hard Limited slip differentials operate a little differently, but are not harsh and don't lock. They use a series of clutch disks and springs. When one wheel slips pressure is applied to the opposite side and that axle is engaged. Our Eaton GovLoc uses some of this technology. That is why people refer to it as not a real locker.

Here is a good thread with some examples of how differentials work

They can be different to drive on slick surfaces for sure since both rear tires are connected. It can indeed slip sideways under acceleration.

The feeling of being rearended and the locker suddenly releasing with a bang, is indicative and normal for the Powertrax Lockright locker (lunchbox locker) Those are installed in an open carrier to replace the spider gears. I would agree that they are better served for an offroad vehicle. They can be harsh and require easing through corners to keep the unit released.

The day that it locked up on me, was so violent, that I got out of the truck to see what had hit me. I'm glad that we don't have that truck any more. What ever was in the truck came factory. About 6 months after recieving the truck, we asked to replace the rear end with an Eaton unit, but were told by the powers above that there was nothing wrong with their choice of rear ends. We challenged them to come out and ride with us, but for some reason, they never took us up on the offer.

It would have been interesting to see if it lacked friction modifier, or something else that contributed to the problem. I think I would have had a mechanic take a look. That does not sound like normal operation from the experience I have with lockers. My Vega runs a Detroit, and my HenryJ runs a Ford TracLock. I have installed Powertrax, Eaton, Auburn, and spools in other vehicles.

You are right in that lockers require some caution and a little different driving style. I prefer to have one rather than not.

Something nobody has touched on yet is a Zexel Torsen rear carrier.

These are readily available from Camaro/Firebird rear ends, and are magnificent performers for the rear on these trucks. I've got one installed on the rear of my Xtreme, and it performs WONDERFULLY.

The idea behind these is that they are torque sensing rear diffs so that as torque is sent to the rear it can transfer as much as 90% of it to the wheel with traction. The only downfall is that if you have a wheel in the air or on ice. Then there is Zero torque sent to that wheel, so there is Zero torque to transfer. The simple solution to this is to LIGHTLY apply the ebrake, adn that will force a bit of torque to be sent to the other wheel, and get you unstuck in a hurry. Works like a champ on the Xtreme (when there was a wheel on ice, not in the air).

The Zex's used to be readily available from SLP as take out units, however they have since all but vanished from both eBay, and the general aftermarket. I've found several in junkyards though, and since 95% of the yards owners ahve no idea what they are looking at, they will let them go for a reasonable price.

I'd gladly take a Zex in teh Xtreme over the G80 in the ZR5 any day.

2kwik4u wrote:The Zex's used to be readily available from SLP as take out units, however they have since all but vanished from both eBay, and the general aftermarket.

Here's one on E-Bay

It's cheap, but it also has higher mileage (90K).



Steve

How long do units like that last?? I've been thinking about getting something installed in mine because I hate when only one tire spins.

killian96ss wrote:Here's one on E-Bay

It's cheap, but it also has higher mileage (90K).

Might be cheap for a reason. Those left side bearings look really bad. I wonder how long the unit ran in the remnants of those bearings?

I have used and installed many used carriers. Like anything else they can be abused and worn out. They will also last the lifetime of the vehicle and more if cared for properly.

BobbleSmitty wrote:How long do units like that last?? I've been thinking about getting something installed in mine because I hate when only one tire spins.

I'm not sure how long the Torsens last, but I do have 180k on the G80 locker in my 88 S10 Blazer and it still works just as good as the one in my CC.

Steve

HenryJ wrote:

killian96ss wrote:Here's one on E-Bay

It's cheap, but it also has higher mileage (90K).

Might be cheap for a reason. Those left side bearings look really bad. I wonder how long the unit ran in the remnants of those bearings?

I noticed those bearings also , but it's hard to tell in that photo if the bearings are bad or if there is just something on them. It could be nothing, or it could be metal shavings. The bearings on the right look normal.

Steve

When you trash a ring and pinion it is the left side bearing that takes the load. I wonder if the ring gear mounting flange is ok?
I'd have to see that one first hand before I would spend much in it.

There was a reference to it being a 4.10 carrier. That and it being in a Camaro might suggest some hard use?

HenryJ wrote:When you trash a ring and pinion it is the left side bearing that takes the load. I wonder if the ring gear mounting flange is ok?
I'd have to see that one first hand before I would spend much in it.

I just sent the seller a question regarding the bearing damage and how long it was run that way. If he is honest he will post his reply on this auction, but if there is no response then I would STAY AWAY form this one.

Steve

HenryJ wrote:There was a reference to it being a 4.10 carrier. That and it being in a Camaro might suggest some hard use?

4.10's in a Camaro = fun. Maybe too much fun?

Steve

The seller just sent me this message "Left side bearing is bad. There was metal material on the magnet in the cover. I don't know the previous history of the car, so I don't know how long it was run like that".

After hearing his response I wonder if they are rebuildable?

Steve

I saved that photo from eBay and opened it with Windows Picture and Fax Viewer. When you zoom in on that left bearing it looks like heavy damage compared to the right.

HenryJ, the above named truck had two lockers installed under warranty. The first lasted about 6 mo., The second one lasted about 75 mi., and the last one had about 115k mi. on it when we turned the truck in. As to the lubricants, we used everything recommended, and after the second one went out of warranty, we tried different lubes and additives. Something must have worked, because it lasted about 110k MI.

2kwik4u wrote:Something nobody has touched on yet is a Zexel Torsen rear carrier.

These are readily available from Camaro/Firebird rear ends, and are magnificent performers for the rear on these trucks. I've got one installed on the rear of my Xtreme, and it performs WONDERFULLY.

The idea behind these is that they are torque sensing rear diffs so that as torque is sent to the rear it can transfer as much as 90% of it to the wheel with traction. The only downfall is that if you have a wheel in the air or on ice. Then there is Zero torque sent to that wheel, so there is Zero torque to transfer. The simple solution to this is to LIGHTLY apply the ebrake, adn that will force a bit of torque to be sent to the other wheel, and get you unstuck in a hurry. Works like a champ on the Xtreme (when there was a wheel on ice, not in the air).

The Zex's used to be readily available from SLP as take out units, however they have since all but vanished from both eBay, and the general aftermarket. I've found several in junkyards though, and since 95% of the yards owners ahve no idea what they are looking at, they will let them go for a reasonable price.

I'd gladly take a Zex in teh Xtreme over the G80 in the ZR5 any day.

I though about doing this in my 91 because I'm CHEAP. What I was thinking was just "twin sticking" the parking brake, get some parking brake handles out of a couple cars at the junk yard and run each handle to one drum. Sure, kinda ghetto, but I bet it would work.

I second the comments of 2kwik4u. The Torsen T2R rear end in my 97 ROCKS for autocross and make the truck driveable in the winter with some 205 mud and snows all the way around. However, for true off roading im not sure. It will allow wheel spin on tire lift as I've found out on the autocross track. If you want the other tire to dig in and pull on tire lift the only way to go is a full locker.(see above link on how possi's work).

Here is some more info sent to me by the seller of the Zexel Torsen on E-Bay. I asked him if the ring and pinion was damaged and if there appeared to be any other damage other than the one carrier bearing. "Ring and pinion showed no damage. I have not disassembled the unit to inspect the guts, the 2 visible gears look fine. They seem to have some play in them, not sure if that is normal or typical for a high mileage unit?"

Steve