PC problems

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:43 pm

I have a couple questions for you computer gurus out there. I have an older PC (2001 HP Pavilion 7520, windows XP Home edition, Pentium IV 2GB, 512 RAM). Service pack 3 and all windows updates installed.
Lately I've been having trouble booting up. I have Norton Internet Security 2009 and MaxSecure maxspyware detector 2.0 installed.
When I turn the PC on it starts to boot up they makes an audible click and the monitor and on-button light go off. At this point I can do nothing but turn it off manually and start over. The only way I've been able to get it to boot up is pressing F8 on start up and then starting in safe mode. Once the windows safe screen comes up I then click on Start and select Restart and it boots up in regular mode. I've scanned and scanned for viruses etc with both programs to no avail. I also tried starting in debug and registry repair modes without success fixing the problem.
Additionally I have now developed a problem within both of these anti-virus anti-spyware programs. When I try to update or send logs spydetector says I don't have an internet connection even though I'm online and all other programs are working normally. I've asked them about this with no solutions. Even tried uninstall-reinstall with no change or success. Norton works normally except for "insight" selection. When I select this option it too says I am not online even though I can verify I am. I've tried disabling either program and made sure all needed exceptions were noted including in windows firewall settings. I've even tried disabling firewall along with Norton while trying to get Spydetector to work normally with no success. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:01 pm

Wait on the experts but, I did warn you about Norton. I know you are on dial up but, is there anywhere you can go loaf at that has broadband? I just went through all of this with an older laptop and had to reinstall the OS but, the SP3 upgrade gave me fits. Have you downloaded anything like spybot? It used to help but, I do not know about it now. Wait on our gentle giant from Vermont or Brule.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:07 pm

When was the last clean install?

I like AVGfree as my anti-virus program.

Could it be the dying hard drive? I just replaced the old 30 GIG in my old laptop for similar issues. A new 120 GIG drive was $45 + shipping.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:11 pm

f9k9 wrote:Wait on the experts but, I did warn you about Norton. I know you are on dial up but, is there anywhere you can go loaf at that has broadband? I just went through all of this with an older laptop and had to reinstall the OS but, the SP3 upgrade gave me fits. Have you downloaded anything like spybot? It used to help but, I do not know about it now.

Yeah I had spybot before I upgraded to SP3. Spybot forgot to tell anybody they had conflict issues with Norton. End result I had to wipe the drive and re-install the OS. That is one of the main reasons I went to MaxSecure. I have to pay for it but it isn't supposed to have any conflicts with Norton or windows problems. Or so they claim.

I could go to the local library but they have a one hour limit online per user and the place is always full of kids playing online games etc. I'm still griping at the local wireless phone people why they don't have a usb aircard for pc users. Verizon and Alltel do but these folks Nex-tech don't seem to be interested in it. Hard to figure since they are owned by Sprint. I'd use one of the other two but cell service for them in my location is terrible. Used to have Alltel and that's why I switched to Nex-tech to get better phone service.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:18 pm

HenryJ wrote:When was the last clean install?

Could it be the dying hard drive?

I assume you mean OS restoration by "clean install". If so less than two months ago which meant I lost all downloaded programs and personal files at that time.
I'm hoping not the drive but perhaps.
The only other related?? occurrence I can recall was about six months ago I had trouble with boot up and took the sides off the pc and discovered the fans etc were clean (thought maybe was overheating due to dirt) but one of the locking clips that holds the fan-cooled heat sink to the processor was loose. I took the other one loose and made sure there was adequate heat sink transfer grease in between and re-installed the sink making sure it was locked down properly. Had not had any operational issues till these new problems cropped up.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:26 pm

I would back up anything you are fond of now.
I do empathize with you on the task ahead. I know Norton has had some issues with Windoze. I found an alternative to it long ago.
There was a boot problem a long time ago that was resolved, but I really can't remember what I did to cure mine at that time. Maybe Brian, or Paul will remember.

Might be a good time to put a new laptop on that Christmas list?

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:37 pm

Yeah, I've been thinking about a laptop anyway for the flexibility and perhaps the ability to do some "programming" work on some of the vehicles. Oh shoot! Guess that means I just advocated spending a lot more than just for the new puter. BTW, on that line, anybody have any preferences for the new OS on a new unit should I get one? As an aside I've had considerably less problems with spyware and viruses since I started using FireFox browser. Odd though, history and temp files still seem to accumulate in Explorer even though it hasn't been opened???

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:51 pm

I like Vista.

Explorer is still used for updates and a few system functions.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:51 pm

Clicking is almost always a sign of a failing drive. I would first download all data you wish to save then try this. Boot up and hit F8 start in DOS mode then type CHKDSK at the c prompt. This will check your hard disk for defects/bad sectors. Another thing to check since you were inside the case is to carefully remove and reinstall the ram and check all installed cards and cable connections you may have jarred them loose when cleaning which can cause boot problems. The next thing I would check would be the power supply a weak power supply can cause these symptoms also safe mode bypasses a lot of start up processes and uses less power.
On top of these things I have had nothing but problems with Norton, the last system I had it on required not just a reinstall but a complete reformat of the hard drive to get rid of the POS. Norton puts so many hooks into the registry that it can cause all sorts of issues

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:12 pm

Thanks for the advice. I did find a disk check feature through the F8 feature and it indicated no problems found. It was not at the command prompt however. Would this make a difference? I will recheck connections etc but have doubts this would be the problem as I didn't dis-assemble the boards etc just re-hooked the heat sink on the processor. I also did all cleaning with low velocity pressurized air so as not to disturb any sensitive components.
Is the power supply marked to indicate output voltages etc? I have not checked it yet and was just wondering.
As for the Norton thing, I did a re-format also but only on the non-partitioned part of the drive. Since this is an early version of XP there are no installation discs and the restoration files are contained on the drive behind a partition. Can Norton reach in there and contaminate that sector as well? I can scan that sector with spydetector and norton as well. Does that give those programs access to add/subtract from the data there?

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:16 pm

One thing further when the pc clicks it only makes one audible click simultaneously shutting down the monitor. The monitor is still on but the same as "sleeping" also the light behind the on button goes off but the "working" light below it just stays on steady with no apparent activity and the drive "whine" is still present till manually shut down.

green02crew · Post by **green02crew** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:21 pm

I agree with previous posts. Clicking sounds and PCs are not a good combination. That typically indicates drive failure. Back up now while you still can. Power supply will be 12v from nearly all connections with a few exceptions. If partitions are viewable than yes they can be accessed. I wouldn't worry about Norton but it is a hassle to use at times, if you formatted than its gone.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:11 am

Norton will have gotten it's hooks into everywhere it could. If the rescue portion of the disk is protected it should be fine.
I would look at the hard drive as the primary culprit 7 years is a good run for most drives. A good quote to remember and I have said this one before. " There are only 2 state of being for a hard drive one that has failed and one that is going to fail"
It could be an issue with XP SP3 not playing nice with one or more of your system drivers causing the system to hang when booting, did the problem start after you ran Windows update? If so a manual update of drivers may be needed.
If looking for a new system I would recommend Vista as well just make sure you get a system with at least 2GB ram if you want it to run with all the Aero bells and whistles turned on. Vista SP1 is stable and works well I have been using Vista for over 18 months now and love it.
For the best bang for the buck take a look at TigerDirect.com and look at the refurb units lots of good deals there and they are good to work with ( some have had problems but I have never) I have recommended systems from them to a few people on here and have not steered them wrong yet. Refurbs come with good warranties and have been hand inspected to make sure they are working properly.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:41 pm

Yes, the troubles started after SP3 update and Norton 2009 Internet Security installs. Both were done close together. I had to do a "recovery" and am currently fighting with multiple program problems. (downloaded programs) Most won't work with lower than SP2 which I have not updated since recovery.
I am starting to wonder about the viability of Norton. Endless updates and it never seems to find much or stop much. MaxSecure spyware detector seems to work pretty well and stops and finds things Norton either ignores or misses. Anybody else tried it?

I realize they are trying to sell computers, but is there any truth to the ads claiming Vista has lots of problems. (Mac commercials) How many SP's are out there for Vista now?

I have looked on TigerDirect.com and also on Newegg.com both seem to have some pretty decent deals.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:12 am

Newegg is good also, I have purchased from them as well.
Vista is on SP1 Many of the Vista Sux crowd and Apple for that matter are still looking at Vista when it rolled out. Due to many factors ,it really was not ready for prime time. Mostly due to driver incompatibilities and the Vista Capable/Vista Ready fiasco of computer retailers not wanting to lose sales the Christmas before Vista shipped. There are lawsuits still in progress over that one. Vista SP1 pre-installed in a good modern system with at least 2gb ram, a 256mb ram video card and at minimum a Pentium 4 processor runs great. My system which was a Gateway Media Center refurb from TigerDirect is very stable with Vista, any new computer will work even better. There are a lot of tweaks that can make Vista work even better if you get a system I would be glad to send you a list of site than can help with customizing things (if you are in to that). If you have lots of old hardware and some software it might not play nicely with Vista you may need to go the the manufactures site and see if they have Vista drivers or you may have to use them in XP emulator mode.
The only critical issue I had was when I upgraded to SP1 it borked my video driver, I thought the drive needed to be wiped and reinstalled the operating system, when it happened again I figured it out and updated the video driver on line and everything worked fine. I run my system 24/7 and only reboot when I add software or a windows update requires it so maybe once a month. I have never had a crash or critical stop. The media center is great it adds the capabilities of a TiVo type unit to your computer and is easy to integrate into your home theater, if you have one, so you can use your fancy tv as a secondary monitor. Nothing like viewing a slide show of your digital photos on a 61" RPTV

.

As for Norton I will say it again, I will never install it on another system and I advise against it to everyone who asks I have seen it mess up way to many systems.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:00 pm

So, if you're not running Norton, what anti-virus you using? Also what did you do to determine your vid driver was "borked"? I've been through the usual device working/not working windows checks. Is there anything further I can do there to trouble shoot for a bad driver? Have you tried any of the dual core processors yet? Any good? I know, lots of questions, but I'm learning. Thanks for all the advice.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:14 pm

http://free.avg.com/ for the anti virus program. I have used Norton and others. This is much better. That's all the assistance that I can help with now.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:33 pm

I saw a heck of a deal on an open box returned laptop at Sam's Club. The same laptop I bought through Costco, but half the cost.
The HP Pavillion series has been a good one for me.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:16 am

I use AVG as well (the free version).
As for how I figured out the driver problem I am afraid that's something that's hard to explain. It's a sot of computer zen thing (seems silly but it's true) I build computer for fun and have had so many issues to work on I have just gotten a feel for where the problem might be. I long ago modded this computer to the point where Gateway no longer recognizes it as their system.
With my laptop I just had a similar problem after it tried to load an update. I had just installed the OS from scratch and and downloaded all the patches and updates for it from Microsoft's site and then reinstalled the AVG software, in this case the AVG software caused a problem on start up and I had to disable it the hard way to get the system running again until I get more RAM installed. There is a possibility that the problem you are having can be cured the same way I fixed my system but it's not something easily done over a typed connection. Do you have a second computer you can access the internet with? If so I may be able to be of more help. I have talked more than a few people through problems both by phone and my preferred method voice chat. (you know who you are)
As for dual core machines I have not played with any but they are faster, obviously they are already becoming obsolete as well with the quad core systems shipping but that's always the way with computers. What do you use your system for? just basic word processing,internet and photo/music storage or are you into gaming/video editing or home theater? each of these can make a difference on the system you buy. I can help you out with picking what will be best for your needs and then you can shop for price on a system that will do what you need it to.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:28 pm

I mainly use my pc for internet surfing (here among other places), word processing, bookkeeping, photo editing and storage, and am learning or trying to anyway how to use movie maker.
Sorry, no 2nd computer to use while working on this one.
I actually do understand your "zen" thing. A lot of my mechanic work is along that line as well. I can drive a vehicle and within a very short period of time get a "feel" for what the problem is and it's likely fix might be. I've always been able to do this. Don't know why but I don't question it I just enjoy it.
After doing this most recent "recovery" I've had an interesting experience. Norton will not work without at least SP2 according to my on screen messages nor will callwave (my online answering service for dial-up). I had not downloaded my MaxSecure Registry Cleaner I purchased when I bought spydetector. I did so and it found over 1850 entries that apparently did not belong there. I removed them (did not delete them from quarantine storage just in case) and the pc is working better than it has in a long time. Quicker response and downloading most notably. Is it possible that all these "entries" were eating up all my RAM since it is only 512MB?
In consideration of this I am nervous about downloading any anti-virus program and am considering trashing Norton as well. I have as an install on desktop but have not updated to SP2 or higher to be able to install it.
The only other computer I have worth any consideration at all is an even older HP with a croaked drive. It is only a 850hz athlon processor and also would need more RAM as it was only a 256k. It did have a pretty good video card and I do still have restoration discs for it though. (Windows ME) I kept having trouble with the "blue screen of death" on it till it finally died. After that I figured out the clowns that assembled it failed to properly match the BIOS settings of the drive to the system. Of course it was just out of warranty so no recourse. At this point I just think it to be a source of possible spare parts. Again thanks I appreciate both the help and the patience with a neophyte.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:17 pm

ME was Microsoft's worst nightmare it never worked right.
A badly corrupted registry will cause all sorts of problems it sounds like cleaning it was a good thing, that was one of the things I was going to have you do. If Norton is there in part it can cause all sorts of havoc.
512MB ram is sort of minimum for XP but it sounds like the registry problems could indeed be much of your trouble. If you do not have it I would suggest you download and installCCLEANER and use it to clean the junk files and registry with that, then use the startup page to see if there is anything there you do not use or want to start when Windows does these all use system resources that could cause a problem when the system is booting. This would be all I would do with your current system.For what you are wanting to do I would recommend not spending a dime on your current system and going with something newer. I don't see a great deal right out of the box in a refurb desktop from TigerDirect right now. There are a couple that are ok but I would add a graphics card to them to make them better, you would be looking at around 450 for a really nice upgrade from what you have. Donate your current systems to a charity and take the tax deduction.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:50 pm

Do you think CCleaner is better than the MaxSecure registry cleaner I have now?
As regards the selective startup, I have some trouble understanding what is needed and what is not. I used to know when I had ME as I queried Microsoft and they actually gave me a list of necessary startup entries to run the system so I knew which others were not. Unfortunately I am a little unsure on XP what's needed and what's not.
Have you ever heard of Visioncomputers.com? They've been advertising a pc on the radio for 499 lately with 2GB RAM and 80gig drive and I can't remember speed for sure but it was impressive also 17" flat panel monitor. New not refurb. I don't know much about them but they talk a pretty good game on the radio.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:09 pm

CCLEANER is more than a registry cleaner. I don't know MaxSecure so I can't compare I run TuneUp Utilities as my paid tweaking software and CCLEANER as my free backup, they tend to find different things at times.
If you want to go to $500 you can get a great system. I would not look at a new monitor unless it was at least a 19 inch wide screen 17 is just to small if you are going to do any video work. A quick look at Visioncomputers site I can see that all the low price computers use built in graphics cards I highly recommend a dedicated graphics card for any photo/video editing if you want the system to run well. Add a good monitor and you are at the 650 price point. To give you an idea the system I would have you look at would be much higher tech than the one I am currently using and I have well over $1500 into this one. I tend to buy the best I can then run it until it is not worth updating/repairing (about every 5 years).

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:22 pm

Thanks for the help and advice. I guess if I want to get serious with the movie maker thing I need to set the sights a little higher. Always costs a bit more to run with the "big dogs".

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:39 pm

You gots to pay to play.
If you can get your current system running well again it might be worth it to save up for a high end system. Intel is just starting to ship their i7 core processors which will kick butt over everything they currently have out there. The trick is always getting enough to do what you want without going overboard or in my case if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing.

I am always ready to help out when you are ready to do something and if you just want to work on the old beast I can help you out with that one as best I can.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:03 am

Here is a deal you might look at.TigerDirect. Nice base system with room to expand. With what you are doing you could try the system with it's integrated video and audio to see if it was fast enough. If not a premium video card and sound card could be added for $250 or so and would be a very nice setup.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean about "overdoing". I kinda did that with that first ME system. It was pretty high end and I spent about 3500 by the time I got done with system and the extra bells and whistles. Of course now it's obsolete and small and slow but then that's the nature of the beast when it comes to computers and their impending obsolescence. Unfortunately the drive died in that one before I really got a chance to do very much (including learning) with it not to mention all the ME associated troubles and the builder caused BIOS imbalance. The system I have now is remnants of that old system with a different tower. Works for now but will need replacement soon. Currently the only way it will boot up is in safe mode then select turn off and select restart. It will then boot up and run in normal windows mode. If done with normal start up it still shuts down and must be manually turned off and start over.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:41 pm

I would try running msconfig and selecting diagnostic startup. Reboot the system if it starts right you will need to use selective startup to disable each item until you find the one causing the problem. Here is a like with more details. Microsoft Help and Support

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:31 pm

Thanks for the link. I'll let you know if I find anything or get it fixed.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:59 pm

Out of curiosity, ever since this last "recovery" I keep getting an online message telling me I need to repair my registry. It says to go to www.regifix.com. Ever heard of this? Another BS message to get me to download more viruses and spyware to my computer? It pops up every so often while I am online.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:34 am

That my friend, sounds like you picked up a virus. No reputable site advertises like that and they can't look at your registry just by you going on line. If you don,t have it I also recommend SpyBot Search and Destroy. If set up to allow content blocking with the TeaTimer active any active registry changes will be blocked until you allow them. It also blocks lots of popups. If you run FireFox I also would set upi the add on Ad Blocker Plus it removes most advertising frames from web sites pages.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:00 pm

I was kinda afraid you were going to say that about the virus thing. I had Spybot before and it was the start of all the troubles I am currently trying to wade out of. They neglected to let people know they had to update to a newer version so when I updated the last time it messed my system up real good as Spybot doesn't play well with Norton which I had at the time. Presently I am using MaxSecure spydetector and it seems to be working fairly well blocking things and removing spyware and stopping popups.
I just finished downloading XP SP1a as I couldn't load anything newer without some of the files that are in that service pack. 125Mb download. Ugh! Long procedure on dial up. I am now debating whether to load SP2 or 3. 2 is minimum for some of my later programs to work properly and I am leery of 3 since I've been having troubles ever since I installed it before.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:35 pm

Still working on things but have another "neophyte" question for you. I am on dial-up and know it's slow but my connection speed ranges between 21.6 and 29.2kbps. Why is the actual download rate only around 2.5kbps? I have set modem to maximum and all other performance parameters to maximum performance but the rate of download is still only about 2.5. Seems to me that even if it were an exchange rate it should be at least half of the connection speed or about 10.5-14.5kbps. Is my thinking off-base on this? If so can you give me a simple explanation? Thanks Larry

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:33 am

The very first thing I would check is the actual phone wire into your house. Standard telephone wire is great for voice but not so good for data especially the cheap stuff installed in the walls. Pick up a phone patch cord long enough to go from the gray Telco box on the outside of your house and connect it directly to the computer and see if your speed is better, that will eliminate the house wire as being the issue. If that does not fix it we can look at other TCPIP parameters and Modem options in the computer.

DLP · Post by **DLP** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:33 pm

I work for our local telephone company installing DSL. Haven't installed dial-up in a long time! For the speed difference price is minimal. But it's still not available everywhere. Anywho, the best advice was already given. Unplug your inside wire at the interface and use a new/good satin/mounting cord directly from the interface to your puter. The next step would be to swap out the puter for another for testing. You can go to www.speedtest.net to check your speed. It will be slower than the stated paid for speed. The stated speed is only garanteed from your house to the local CO. You might also try turning off any virous blockers for the speed test.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:21 pm

Update: Ordered and received and installed memory upgrade and new drive in old tower. Installed new processor and cooling fan in newer tower. Both to no avail. After working on both for a total of 8 hours today I came to the conclusion the best thing I can do is either beat the s**t out of both of them with a large hammer or an axe or pile em up and dump gasoline over them and light a match. Tried installing the drive out of the newer tower in the older puter with upgraded memory also with no joy.
Newer unit still starts up then shuts down the fan and processor after a few moments of operation. Older unit loaded Windows ME but gives all sorts of failure messages upon initialization process and won't complete. I GIVE UP. I am pretty patient but had to get out of the house before I used both for target practice or other anger related uses. Really makes me angry when I consider that I just wasted that money which I could've better spent on a new unit! Too much mechanic fix-it mentality I guess.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:42 am

I did point out those were awful old to be upgrading, The unit that keeps shutting down I would try swapping the power supply from the other unit into that one and see if the problem goes away, a faulty power supply will cause similar issues to what you are having. If you just swapped the newer drive into the older computer I would not be surprised it wont work. The computer registers all the hardware when you load windows onto it the first time and swapping it to another computer can confuse it (it's looking for things that are not there). If the old computer with a new hard drive and OS install did not work I am not sure what the problem might be but I would start by removing all the upgraded RAM and seeing if it will boot correctly. sometimes computers can be finicky if the memory is not approved for it. If it starts correctly I would then reinstall the ram making sure it's seated correctly and try booting again if there are issues you will be able to see it this way.
I usually go by the rule of 5 for my systems -- that is when I buy a new system I buy the absolute best I can afford at the time (usually one step below the cutting edge) I then run and upgrade it for no more than 5 years. At that point it starts costing more to fix than to replace with a new more powerful system. I then scavenge the best of the old system to supplement the new system if it needs it.
It's hard but computers must be thought of as non repairable after just a very short time. Welcome to the disposable ecomomy of consumer electronics.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:42 am

04crewvt wrote:It's hard but computers must be thought of as non repairable after just a very short time. Welcome to the disposable economy of consumer electronics.

I have to agree with this. I used to build my own computer. Today I can buy a computer at Wally world under $500 that will do the job and more for less then I can build , or rebuild something.
Most often it just makes sense to replace after five years as was mentioned.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:29 pm

Using Brule and Brian's thinkology I think I'll just buy a cheapie and toss it in 5 years and start over with another cheapie. I did the biggest and baddest on the older of the two I bought and it only lasted just over 3 years (enough to get out of warranty) anyway. Now neither seems to be repairable. I have managed to get the old one to run in safe mode after much fiddling but still no joy on normal operation. Checked both power supplies and all voltages read normal during operation. I've concluded the newer one must have a motherboard problem and the old one I just don't know. Tried the help file selective startup to no avail either. I'm currently out of ideas since I started with a new drive and two new memory sticks so I don't see where sensing hardware should be a problem as I formatted the new drive before installing the OS.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Sorry it's been so frustrating for you but I think you are on the right track now.
One problem I found over the years with memory is that some boards are very picky with the RAM installed up to and including specifying exactly who's RAM and the exact part #. Many newer RAM modules are supposed to be backward compatible with older types for example PC133 will work in most but not all systems calling for PC100 it just will run at the slower speed. Some will work with a BIOS update and some will only work partially and cause random issues.
It's a long shot but one other thing you can try is to literally unplug everything and remove it all from the case, see if one of the mounting screws for the motherboard is not insulated from the case with a fiber washer this has been a problem on some systems and it will make sure it's not a connection problem with something as stupid as the power switch. A bad case power switch could cause this issue but it's a long shot. It will also make sure some random bit of crud is not shorting something out on the back side of the board.
Wish I was closer these are the type problems I love to tinker on. I work much cheaper than the supposed experts at the big box stores (usually a bottle of Glenlivet 12yr will keep me motivated for a long time)

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:09 pm

04crewvt wrote: I work much cheaper than the supposed experts at the big box stores (usually a bottle of Glenlivet 12yr will keep me motivated for a long time)

I just spent another 8+hrs working on the pc again today. Tried everything I can think of. Even smacking it around.

Removed and re-cleaned memory sockets. Re-formatted and reinstalled OS three times. Keep getting multiple fatal errors. All seem to link to Msoobe.exe as underlying base problem. Tried accessing setup and bios and correctiing time and other settings as well to no avail. Also noted DOS error record of CMOS checksum bad.

Same error I used to get before the pc originally crashed and failed. Don't know what that means or how to repair it. Bought a new clock battery for it today and will try it tomorrow. Also going to try (if battery doesn't help) pulling both 256k strips and installing 2-512k strips (new) I have on hand. If that doesn't help maybe I can get through the errors faster anyway.

Maybe I need to get a bottle of Glenlivet or Crown Royal to help me out as well. At least if I can't fix it I might be too sauced to care.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:24 pm

If you got a checksum error from the CMOS the battery indeed could fix the issue. It's something rarely needing replacement since most people get rid of a system before it goes bad 5-7 years usually. That would be a pis_er if a $3.00 battery fixes your problem.

Crown Royal will do in a pinch but I prefer a good Single Malt over a blend any day (unless someone else is buying then I shut up and drink).

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:14 pm

Odd thing about the battery that's currently in the pc. I checked it with a voltmeter and it is rated at 3 volts and checked as 2.86. Maybe that's not enough but I thought it should be.

Yeah, I know what ya mean. Free hooch is always good regardless the brand. lol

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:21 pm

I doubt that would be low enough to cause your issues. I am afraid it is your MOBO. Having had one die in a similar manner after a power supply fried it did throw similar errors that I first atributed to a drive then the CMOS battery and finally replaced the MOBO and CPU to get up and running again

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:29 pm

I'm afraid you're right. Sucks too as I have two puters with basically the same problem. The newer one simply shuts down the cpu fan then the cpu. Tried replacing both but same result. Seems like the only logical explanation given all the rest of the facts at hand.
Guess I've gone this far I'll start looking for a MOBO as well. In for a penny in for a pound.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:32 pm

U would really be better off with this at this point.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:08 pm

I'm inclined to agree Brian. I bought a new clock battery and installed it. The results were: 1- I was able to complete setup, 2- I was able to set up internet dial-up connection, 3- I set my preferences, and 4- I started to get increasing numbers of error messages followed by a short squeal noise and the blue screen of death.
Do ya loan out the machine gun???? I guess if my buddy would throw the pieces in the air when I yell pull I could use buckshot. lol

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:06 pm

Sorry no loaner on the MG, Big Brother would be cranky if I had and mailed one.

a 12lb sledge would be very therapeutic and cost less.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:59 pm

04crewvt wrote:Sorry no loaner on the MG, Big Brother would be cranky if I had and mailed one. a 12lb sledge would be very therapeutic and cost less.

Save them for me on my way through in '10! Let me do one and you can have at it with a 100 round mag on the second

You just have to clean the puppy though

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:07 pm

Sorry Reed. I'm burying them after death. They ain't "ducks". So I don't think they'd taste any good after cleaning. lol OHHHH You meant the gun. I was thinking you might want to pan fry them after death. hahaha

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:15 pm

Isn't cleaning just half of shooting anyway? Hoppes #9, a real man's cologne.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:48 pm

04crewvt wrote:Isn't cleaning just half of shooting anyway?...........

Not when you have had to clean the things for 40 years and be an armorer and instructor for 18! It simply sucks!

It was fun when I did it by choice. Not fun when mandated.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:52 pm

Well if we ever get to throw lead down range together I will do the cleanup.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:45 pm

I finally gave up on repairs on the two old puters for now. Bought a used one on E-bay for a hundred bucks. It ain't pretty but it is functional. I also bought a UPS from Geeks for a good price and installed it at the same time as the used tower. I've been doing a little more thinking about the two old units. The more I think about it the more I think the power supplies are probably fried in both of them. Likely due to power failures and lightning strikes while online. Bought a little cheapie tester for the supplies but have not taken the time to try using it yet. Let ya know if that's the problem.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:00 pm

If it ends up being the power supply I will owe you a smack upside the head.

The next thing I would check would be the power supply a weak power supply can cause these symptoms

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:02 pm

04crewvt wrote:If it ends up being the power supply I will owe you a smack upside the head.
The next thing I would check would be the power supply a weak power supply can cause these symptoms

We need a road trip.

We owe several a smack on the head!

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:19 pm

Okay guys tone it down. I did checking with voltmeter in the first place and all appeared well but since have bought the checker from geeks as both will power up and then shut down after running a little while. Regular voltmeter said all was well but we'll see with the new gadget thingy. Let ya know later.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:16 pm

So have you checked the power supplies yet?
Just to give you an idea most power supplies shipped with a computer are at best 250 watt and most cost the manufacturer all of $20.00. For a high end system with fast processor and lots of hardware I got sick of replacing power supplies every year or so so the last one I picked up is a 550 watt Antec that had a 3 year warranty cost about $200 at the time and it keeps the system much more stable. Many new high end systems are being built with 1000 watt power supplies that can provide 25 amps to things like the video card.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:59 pm

Thanks for the heads up on the power supplies. No I have not checked them yet. Re-injured my back yesterday and was off work today after going to the doc lying on the sofa in agony. Probably off again tomorrow as I still can't stand or sit or carry and lift anything without considerable pain. Going to the doc again tomorrow and hopefully will be getting some relief as it's pretty hard to sleep with that kind of pain. Pain pills they prescribed barely take the edge off. I will let you know what I find on the supplies when I manage to get them tested out though.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:49 am

I ran into a deal just too hard to pass up.
Staples is selling the Compaq Presario 5170 marked down to $359. If you buy the 19" Compaq W1910 flat screen with it for $129, you get an additional $130 off.
A complete set up for $359. Dual core , 3 GB ram, Vista premium. Very hard to beat.
I bought one to upgrade my sons computer.
Only available in stores, not online and expires today. One out of eight left at the store here in town.
It is not high end for speed, but not a bad place to be.
My gosh prices have dropped for this stuff. You can't afford to upgrade parts at these prices.

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:09 pm

Old thread but appropriate. I'm currently using a computer with XP home edition and recently has developed a problem I've been unable to resolve myself or looking for solutions on the net. Perhaps somebody out there can tell me a solution. Within the last month my e-mail, e-bay, and most parts websites will not display images. Web pages of other types seem normal. The only trouble I've had lately is downloaded avg2011 free edition which did not work properly. Had to find a special removal tool to get rid of it. Now have microsoft security essentials instead. Problem existed shortly after doing the avg upgrade to 2011 version but has remained after removing it.

On an unrelated?? note Is there any way to back up the drive contents to an external/thumb drive. I've looked through all the help info on the unit and learned the backup function was deleted from the home edition but is installable from a disc which I do not have. Suggestions welcome.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:17 pm

What browser and version are you using- IE, Firefox? There are some settings in each that can be set for images. Are you looking to just back up data or a full backup of the drive? How big a drive are you working with?

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:25 pm

Here is a link to download the XP backup software. I have not downloaded this so I would run virus scan before using.
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/software/ntbackup.msi

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:32 pm

04crewvt wrote:What browser and version are you using- IE, Firefox? There are some settings in each that can be set for images. Are you looking to just back up data or a full backup of the drive? How big a drive are you working with?

Problem exists whether I use IE or Firefox. I've tried all the image settings I could find in both and also in control panel internet options with no change.

I'd like to back up all the non-partitioned area of the drive (51.04gb total size). Total drive size is 60gb and area used on the non partitioned part is slightly over 15gb. I have a 16gb thumb drive which should be big enough for this purpose?

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:36 pm

Thanks for the link for the backup. Scanned with two different programs and no viruses etc found.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:40 pm

check out this link and see if you can make the photos show up.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283807

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:06 pm

Thanks for the link at microsoft. I was able to fix IE with the instructions there (setting the security to default levels). Now if I can figure out or you can help me with firefox. I tried similiar actions with it to no avail and also in control panel internet options. Odd though now when I type as in this web site the screen does not keep up with my typing speed. Noticeable delay time cause I ain't that fast.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:15 pm

I have been noticing a lag for 2 days now in firefox I don't know if they are sending through an update in pieces. Sounds like you may be missing a plugin for viewing photos give me a minute to take a look.

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:21 pm

Try this:

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Ima ... 0show?bl=n

roadrunner · Post by **roadrunner** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:25 pm

04crewvt wrote:Try this:

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Ima ... 0show?bl=n

Again much thanks for your help. I just returned from that site and found rather detailed information pertaining to my problems. Both IE and Firefox are now working correctly. You da man!!!

04crewvt · Post by **04crewvt** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:52 pm

Glad to be of service.

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