msd ignition

bad bowtie · Post by **bad bowtie** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:27 pm

I just bought a MSD ignition control unit (MSD-6200) with the universal wiring harness(MSD-8877) from summitracing. Has anyone installed one on there truck.

I just read last night the new Truckin' mag. and in there they installed it on a 2001 s-10 with the 4.3 engine. They said it will give you 5% increase in mpg and increased throttle response. I was so impressed I went online and order it.

I will install it this weekend. The said it will take about an hour.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:45 pm

Check out this thread: Best place to mount an MSD

I think the claims are pretty acurate, however you will need to spend another $50!

You will definately need better wires - to put it mildly, in my opinion they are junk! UPGRADE!

See this thread: Sparkplug wires

My tests are still a bit premature (the switch to summer grade fuel happened soon after the mod), but the last two tanks have seen an increase of 1.1 to 1.5 mpg. That is nearly a 10% increase at best for city/trail mpg. I'll be checking the highway mpg soon.

Plan on the install time taking a bit longer to do things right. There is a minimum of space in the stock engine compartment.

I have a 2" bodylift, take that into consideration when you see where I mounted mine.

EDIT: If the increase holds true, My initial investment would be recovered in 2250 to 5000 miles anything after that is $ in my pocket

bad bowtie · Post by **bad bowtie** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:16 pm

The MDS ignition install was very easy. What helped was the 2" body lift that gave me the room to install it on the firewall above the coil.

For putting on 500 miles on my truck this weekend I noticed a big difference. There is a MUCH better throttle response and it ran alot smoother at all rpm's. The most improvement is at the 2000-5000 rpm range. It didn't struggle to turn the 31" BFG's anymore at highway speeds going up hills. I don't know about milage yet but give me a week or so.

You will definately need better wires - to put it mildly, in my opinion they are junk! UPGRADE!

See this thread: Sparkplug wires

HENRY J

I only have about 15000 miles on the truck so I will wait until warranty is up and put a new coil, wires, and plugs in all at the same time. Unless you think you need them, I will do it sooner.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:33 pm

I had only a few more miles on mine when I did the upgrade. (I'm at 25K now and about 6mo. left on my warranty)

I can understand not wanting to spend the money until the warranty is up, but why suffer with the insufficient wires until then? That is if they are as bad as mine were.

It may not be enough to create a problem yet, or even during the term of the warranty. Worth checking out though.

Try it yourself I may just have the only one that has arcing occuring

Wait until it is really dark outside , or in a garage, then unplug the underhood light, apply the emergency brake, grab your hand held flashlight, start the engine , push the dome light switch four times to shut off the headlights.

Then look for the "light show"when you see sparking , use the flashlight to see where it is happening.

Mild problems can be cured with a good heavy coat of cheap hairspray, relocation , or in the case of boots - dielectric silicone. EDIT: the stock wires only had a "dab" of silicone and not all the way around the inside of the boots. Carefully coating the inside of the boots with dielectric silicone, using a Q-tip, would be a big improvement.

Try those fixes first, I'm afraid that nothing will fix the 7mm wires though.

I don't think that the dealer will replace either the coil or wires, unless a misfire is detected by the PCM (OBD2), and I'm not sure how many misfires it will take to set the code.

bad bowtie · Post by **bad bowtie** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:50 pm

I will check into that info you gave me tonight. I might put wires, plugs, and the coil in this summer. My truck is only 9 months old and have 15000 miles and still climbing

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:55 pm

My plugs still look real good. They are double platnium and may go the distance. Might want to save your money for a while there.

bad bowtie · Post by **bad bowtie** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:59 pm

thanks for the help.

Did the hpIII help with the MSD

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:08 pm

They work OK together. I really haven't seen any big performance gains with the HPPIII.

I have yet to try the high octane tuning though.

bad bowtie · Post by **bad bowtie** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:18 pm

I didn't want to spent $360 on something I don't really need.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:49 pm

Don't get me wrong..I'd get it again! The shift firmness, tire size and other adjustments make it more than worth while

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:47 pm

OK, let me bring you up to speed on my problem. I washed my engine bay yesterday taking care to protect the distributer and K&N FIPK. After I washed it, I drove a couple of blocks to save some drying time and it ran normal. I went out to lunch and the CC died just when I left my work place's parking lot. It restarted after a minute and some effort. It acted very much like moisture in my new distributer. The rest of my lunch hour and 3 stops and it was running normal. There is now probably 30 miles traveled since the wash. Backing up into my parking space after lunch it was acting like moisture in the distributer again. I started it this afternoon to see if, it would start and it started and ran fine. When I left work tonight it died about 2 blocks from work and I was able to get it out of rush hour traffic and into a vacant lot. It would try to run after 5 minutes or so but die at any rpm like the key had been switched off. It was still acting like a wet distributer except for the sudden cut off. At it's worst point I was having backfiring through the exhaust and intake. I am still thinking water but, I was in a bind. All I knew to do was to take the MSD out of the equation because Mrs Hoff was at work and her dogs at home with there legs crossed. It started like a charm and ran decent. I kept water away from the MSD unit but, was wondering if, anyone has ever had a similar problem. TIA

Reed

kwalsh · Post by **kwalsh** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:22 pm

I have had a similar experience, but it was with my aux lights. I hit the module between the battery and interior switch with the hose and ended up frying it. I convinced it was the water from the hose; I must have hit it at the right angle with too much pressure.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:10 pm

kwalsh wrote:I have had a similar experience, but it was with my aux lights. I hit the module between the battery and interior switch with the hose and ended up frying it. I convinced it was the water from the hose; I must have hit it at the right angle with too much pressure.

Thanks for the response. I am not ruling out the distributer having moisture but, I am dreading those loctited screws in the plastic housing like the plague

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:52 pm

Okay, I started looking around the MSD Support Site and found a support forum where MSDtech22 would answer questions about MSD related problems or make recommendations for all kinds of set ups. I joined the forum and posted my problem before I went to work this morning. I borrowed Brule's pic of his set up since it was handy and mine is in the same exact location.

F9K9 wrote:I purchased a 6AL and the GM 8877 wiring harness for 96-UP from Summit Racing in late May of this year. It is installed in a 2002 Chevrolet S-10 Crew Cab truck that is equipped with a 4.3L V6. Only other electrical modifications made is a dealer replaced distributer, upgraded plugs, wires, rotor and cap. Two days ago, the engine first died and it took over a minute to restart. Then it acted like my truck had moisture in the distributer (that is why the dealer replaced my distributer). Then enroute home from work it died. When it would fire up, it acted like moisture in the distributer, back firing through the exhaust and intake, then run smooth but, die as if, the key was turned off. I then took the 6AL out of the loop and it ran fine. There is no evidence of moisture in the distributer and all contacts look fine. I have plugged the 6AL back into the loop 2 mornings in a row and the same symptoms reappear. The 12V hot wire and the ground to the 6AL is good. The 6AL is mounted in a position shown in the photo. The 6AL has performed flawlessly for 6 months. I thought I would give this forum a shot before obtaining a RMA.

TIA,

Reed

I checked the forum after work and was pleasantly surprised to hear back from them so soon.

MSDtech22 wrote:From looking at your photo the mounting shouldn't be a problem except for the fact that it appears from the photograph that if water were to get inside the ignition, the water would 'pool' and stand. Realize that the electronic circuit board is mounted up against the housing where the label is applied. The unit is made to drain water back out though the base plate. That is why we don't advocate using any type of sealant around that base plate and housing. We also recommend that the box be mounted with the aluminum base plate facing the ground or 90° to the ground.

It is possible that your coil might be breaking down or beginning to fail. I realize that the coil works fine under a factory ignition load. This is a common problem. We are increasing the energy output to the coil. With that added energy, the coil may not like the added work and 'break down', when you return to the stock ignition, the coil doesn't have to work as hard and will run or work fine.

I would suggest changing the coil for a factory coil that should work fine with that application or upgrade to our PN 8231 GM Single Connector Coil.

If that doesn't solve the problem, call and get an RMA number and send that in. Send a copy of the receipt along with the unit and we can get that repaired or checked out under warranty.

I was still thinking water after I submitted my question and MSDtech22's answer confirmed it. I decided to hook the 6AL back up and "presto" ran like a charm! I must have had water in there and it finally dried up. He provided some good info on coils though and that may help us out. I will definitely keep water away from the 6AL from now on!

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:07 pm

IMO, the MSD 6A/AL series are just a failure looking for a place to happen...
if anyone is considering one of these, please consider the Crane HI-6 instead. they are digital, fully potted, and have a built in rotary switch adjustable rev limiter... and are usually less expensive than the 6AL.
i have used both before, and IMHO, the HI-6 is a superior product, for less money.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:08 pm

I would be careful about running the MSD Blaster coil with the MSD ignition control.
They do not recommend using the two together, or at least they did not at one time. If you check the support forums you will find multiple failures.
I did some research on this after mine failed and that was my conclusion.
The coil warranty was good . Mine was replaced.

I may be running it now. I added the dual coil bracket so when the next one fails I won't be towed in again.

If you are looking at ignition controls, be sure to check out all the alternatives. Mallory's Hyfire uses a long duration spark that is better in a boosted application where multiple sparks are not as desirable. It uses a jumper rev limiter.

The big advantage to the MSD is that it is "plug-n-play" , the others require cut and splice.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:49 pm

crew cab sonoma wrote:IMO, the MSD 6A/AL series are just a failure looking for a place to happen...
if anyone is considering one of these, please consider the Crane HI-6 instead. they are digital, fully potted, and have a built in rotary switch adjustable rev limiter... and are usually less expensive than the 6AL.
i have used both before, and IMHO, the HI-6 is a superior product, for less money.

You may very well be correct and your info is good for those researching the advantages of one versus the other now. I am committed so, I have to "stay the course".

Brule, I already sent a thread asking about the blaster. I know that it is a very big question for you and that is why you set up back up coils. Is this the coil you used when you had to be towed? I have asked questions already because that part number is listed for 96-97 4.3L on their website.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:36 pm

f9k9 wrote:Is this the coil you used when you had to be towed? I have asked questions already because that part number is listed for 96-97 4.3L on their website.

Yes. MSD Blaster coil (MSD-8231) GM single connector coil.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:40 pm

HenryJ wrote:
f9k9 wrote:Is this the coil you used when you had to be towed? I have asked questions already because that part number is listed for 96-97 4.3L on their website.
Yes. MSD Blaster coil (MSD-8231) GM single connector coil.

My problem is solved (I hope). Should I ask for additional info about this coil due to it failing you, Brule?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:44 pm

I got all the information I needed from the MSD support forum. You may even find my thread there still.

D68enny · Post by **D68enny** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:57 pm

I have a question about these aftermarket ignitions. When you hook one up with no rev limiter do you loose the fuel cut off or rev limiter you all ready have stock?

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:03 am

D68enny wrote:...When you hook one up with no rev limiter do you loose the fuel cut off or rev limiter you all ready have stock?

No. The stock PCM controls that one.

D68enny · Post by **D68enny** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:45 pm

Ok I have another question. I have looked at the Crane HI-6 and it says the compression ratio should be between 10.1:1 and 14.2:1 (somewhere in that range). Our trucks have a low 9.1 don't they? Are the Crane HI-6 even compatible with our trucks? They are cheaper off of Ebay, but I don't know if it is really a good choice. I really like the plug and play of the MSD.

In regards to the response from above in the last post, is a rev limiter a plus on an ignition box for someone just looking to get a little better ride out of his truck. I am looking at the MSD 6AL or the 6200. The only difference is a rev limiter and and the price.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:58 pm

D68enny wrote:Ok I have another question. I have looked at the Crane HI-6 and it says the compression ratio should be between 10.1:1 and 14.2:1 (somewhere in that range).

That one is for the wrong application. They have one for lower compression engines: Looks like it is plug-n-play for the 4.3L with 6000-6300 ignition $139.95, 6000-6709 harness $21.88.

...is a rev limiter a plus on an ignition box for someone just looking to get a little better ride out of his truck.

No. The rev limiter is not really needed unless you race and want the change in type of a rev limiter.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:04 pm

HenryJ wrote:I got all the information I needed from the MSD support forum. You may even find my thread there still.

Well, I heard back from MSDtech22 and they are still suggesting the blaster with the 6AL. Maybe their support isn't all that marvelous. I know better than to go against what you recommended.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:19 pm

f9k9 wrote:...I heard back from MSDtech22 and they are still suggesting the blaster with the 6AL...

All the documentation at the time said the opposite, but the MSD support said they were compatible. After all the discussion and all the people with failures the tech said that they were probably not a good match and that the stock coil would work as well or better.
I am running the blaster coil with my MSD now. I can't say it is any improvement, and we will see if it lasts. I do have an easy swap ready