front end

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:38 pm

so i took it to my friends alignment shop today as im sick of all the goofs looking at my truck and not being able to fix it. and the diagnosis is...my pssanger side tire and suspension is totally screwed. he said it was off by a mile. and it cant be fixed basically. so im guess ing the guys who installed my lift realy messed something up. kinda sucks. im thinking im going to have to tear about the front end and put it all back togther or something. man this sucks. makes me depressed

i wish i bought the superlift now

do you think its possible to change lol

coffeedrnkr · Post by **coffeedrnkr** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:56 am

Welcome to my world pre-SAS

I finally got to the point of saying F-IT!!!!!!!

then I tore it apart.

basically you will have to replace all of your ball joints, probably wheel bearings, and maybe your tie rod ends

Fun huh?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:37 am

coffeedrnkr wrote:basically you will have to replace all of your ball joints, probably wheel bearings, and maybe your tie rod ends

Fun huh?

Add to that pitman and idler arms on a routine basis. Thing is any S-10 (even stock with no lift) that gets wheeled even moderately hard is going to go through those parts frequently. I've been searching the internet until I can't see straight, looking for any upgrades to the stock parts so they will last. I'm sure I'm not the only one either! All I've been able to come up with is swapping the pitman and idler for full sized parts but that still doesn't fix the ball joints.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:24 am

oh yeah its been fun ugh.

im seriously thnking of doing something drastic but im not 100 perecnt yet.

but yeah the amount of crap these lifts put you through is unbelievable. if i had known i would have probably stuck witha bod lift t bar crank shackles and 31s or something. ah well you live and learn

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:02 pm

I would really like to know why Kcustom got rid of his truck , maybe there was ffinally a problem with the Super Lift

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:38 pm

I don't know. With KCustom, I really think it was his new kid although I dread to think it got traded for a [gulp] Minivan

Quickbiker has a TM lift and has wheeled the h*ll out of it and not had any problems other than the usual parts that always seem to wear out from wheeling. I think bubaloo is right. Somebody really screwed up installing something. There are too many other people out there with these lifts (TM & SL) that don't seem to be having any problems. I think I would go back to the installer and scream at them myself.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:43 pm

Rusty wrote:I don't know. With KCustom, I really think it was his new kid...

That and the "new" had worn off the crew cab. With out mods to look forward to what is there? It was done. Time to move on.

Quickbiker has a TM lift and has wheeled the h*ll out of it and not had any problems other than the usual parts that always seem to wear out from wheeling.

I seem to remember Paul needing to straighten the RH suspension drop bracketry. As with any of the drop brackets , when using it hard some reinforcement and straightening may be needed.

I think bubaloo is right. Somebody really screwed up installing something. There are too many other people out there with these lifts (TM & SL) that don't seem to be having any problems. I think I would go back to the installer and scream at them myself.

Determine the problem first. I think it has been wheeled hard enough to bend things -

Check out the front wheel in that picture

Don't forget that Paul is running 31" tires and bubaloo is running 35" tires. There is quite a difference in leverage and mass there.

Save the screaming until you have determined a cause.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:01 pm

i have wheeled it but the alignemt shop even said something isnt right in the front end on how it was installed, which is frustrating because when i pay 5000 bucks for something ( this is canada lol) i would like it to be done well. so im taking it back next week and see what they can find. they think that something was missed on the one side is what it is. he said that the drivers side is ok but the passenger side is maxed out ( whatever that means ) and he cant adjust it any more he said something about the whole suspension on that side to be off by like a few inches or something. i dunno i will see

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:30 pm

bubaloo1983 wrote:... the alignemt shop even said something isnt right in the front end on how it was installed... they think that something was missed on the one side is what it is. he said that the drivers side is ok but the passenger side is maxed out and he cant adjust it any more he said something about the whole suspension on that side to be off by like a few inches or something...

There is not much room for error when it comes to camber and caster. The excentrics in the upper a-arms are all there is for adjustment. That doesn't leave much room for error.

If they can not get it within spec. then something must be done. If it has been this way since the install, I wonder why the question is only coming up now?
This is where I am confused. It had to get aligned after the install. Everything was OK then , right? What has happened to it since that point?

OK, here is where the big problem lies. IF the installer messed things up, or didn't know any better, AND the lift was incorrectly installed, OR there was a defect in the kit and the installer did not recognize the problem. Then the alignment shop set the camber and caster, BUT was unable to correct the condition and let you drive it that way.
Why would you trust them to do it right , or correct the problem now?

That is too many IF's, AND's, OR But's , I'd be looking for a second opinion.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:51 pm

HenryJ wrote:
Rusty wrote:I don't know. With KCustom, I really think it was his new kid...
That and the "new" had worn off the crew cab. With out mods to look forward to what is there? It was done. Time to move on.
Quickbiker has a TM lift and has wheeled the h*ll out of it and not had any problems other than the usual parts that always seem to wear out from wheeling.
I seem to remember Paul needing to straighten the RH suspension drop bracketry. As with any of the drop brackets , when using it hard some reinforcement and straightening may be needed.
I think bubaloo is right. Somebody really screwed up installing something. There are too many other people out there with these lifts (TM & SL) that don't seem to be having any problems. I think I would go back to the installer and scream at them myself.
Determine the problem first. I think it has been wheeled hard enough to bend things -

Check out the front wheel in that picture
Don't forget that Paul is running 31" tires and bubaloo is running 35" tires. There is quite a difference in leverage and mass there.

Save the screaming until you have determined a cause.

Uh, I see your point. I forgot he was running 35's (much more leverage to bend things) and I also forgot about that picture! Yikes!

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:05 pm

Well 50 miles after my alinement it was shot. I payed 80 bucks for it so it is going back tomorrow.

I hod to spend 1 hour to day just to get it to drive strait

Now I am not saying the lift is bad I think pe we tightened up the cam bolts the were a little on the lose side today , well bubaloo good luck

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:52 pm

when i first got the first alignemt ever after the lift i dont even remember where i got it? but from day one it drove funny but i was very low on info about this stuff back then. and just assumed its lifted and everythings changed maybe its supposed to drive like this.

i origianly had 32s on my truck when i started. it seemd wierd form the begining. i then went to a set of 33s and thats when i started to think it wasnt right. so i took it to gm and they did a service alignment ect. and from there still seems odd but at least the wheel was centered.

i then got 35s and then everything went to the shitter. and i would say that either they caused the problems OR they escalted then to what they are today. im not saying it was there fault but what the alighment shop was basiclaly saying to me is the entire side of the suspension needs to move out an inch ( or so, as he said ) or it will never be fixed and nothing can be adjusted. i dunno im looking into it this week

Steve2003 · Post by **Steve2003** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:15 pm

bubaloo wrote:which is frustrating because when i pay 5000 bucks for something ( this is canada lol) i would like it to be done well.

No offense dude but you were giving me s**t about spending 40 bucks to pay these guys, who are professional lift mechanics, for installing my skid plate, which took them the better part of two hours to install? And it wasn't because they were ripping me off, I stood there and watched them do it. It wasn't no piece of cake! By the way they have a pic of my truck on their site.socal supertrucks No disrespect, just find it ironic!!

Steve

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:20 pm

ah no worries steve. i have just had alot of problems thats all so it sucks. not blaming anyone probably alot of thinsg that added to the problems.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:38 pm

oh and i wasnt givin ya shat i was just wondering what too so long to nstall a skid plate

which no one has posted pics of how it is installed so i have no way of seeing... hint hint

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:42 pm

I lost the small clip that holds on the cable from the diff to the vacume acuator when i can find one i will install the skid and take pics sorry man

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:59 am

just kidding

when you can dude

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:58 am

Horsehammerr · Post by **Horsehammerr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:35 am

Was lubing my front end and noticed my idler arm was crap. Got a new Moog problem solver and put that on. Question is do I need to get alignment after just changing idler arm?

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:42 am

When did you last have an alignment?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:53 am

I think Reed is on the right track here. If you haven't had one in the last 20k miles it would be a good idea.
Replacement of the idler arm or pitman would not require an alignment otherwise.
As with any replacement watch for wear or handling differences. If you feel anything unusual then an alignment check is a good idea.
Many places here will check for free. If they need to maker adjustments or replace parts, that is when they begin charging.

Horsehammerr · Post by **Horsehammerr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:34 am

Thanks Reed and Brule, my alignment is only 5000 miles old and still real good, just feels different because of not loose with the new idler arm. What about this " Parallelism adjustment" , how important is this ?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:38 am

Horsehammerr wrote: What about this " Parallelism adjustment" , how important is this ?

What?

If that means Track adjustment or Thrust angle, there is not much you can do to adjust it. A little can be adjusted in the front, but that is only with corrections in caster.
Frame or suspension work would need to be done if it is out too far.

Horsehammerr · Post by **Horsehammerr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:54 pm

Form that came with this K6251T Moog Problem Solver Idler Arm says to measure between upper control arm nut and inner tie rod end nut with tie rod end stud directly under the control arm nut at both sides. If this dimension is more than 1/16" different from one side to the other you should loosen the idler mounting bolts and move up or down to get equal measurements. What ?

Can 1/16" really make any difference ? They call this Steering Linkage Parallelism Adjustment

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:53 pm

I see says the blind man. They are just making sure your relay rod runs level. Pitman and idler running parallel.
Should be easy to check with a tape to see if you are close.
Not sure I would call it critical, but if there is slack for misalignment, then it would be good to get it as close as you can to parallel.

Horsehammerr · Post by **Horsehammerr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:36 pm

I'll check it out tomorrow 90 degrees and 98% humidity is not good for driveway or garage work. I thought I read somewhere about level center link and kind of thought that was what they were talking about. I really can't see the up or down movement of the idler arm changing the pitman to idler parallel at all. The only way to change that would be to connect one or the other to the center link other than in the holes provided or bend the frame on one side.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:40 pm

It is possible that there might be manufacturing differences requiring the replacement of the pitman arm to match the pair.

I really think if there was much difference you would have noticed and questioned the install. You should be fine.

Horsehammerr · Post by **Horsehammerr** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:33 am

Oh yeah, I sized the new one next to the original with 109,000 miles on it and everything lined up perfectly. I had considered going the 3/4 ton switch route but I really don't abuse my front end other than fast hard cornering, and thats on pavement. I'll let you know about the " Parallelism Adjustment " later today.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:18 pm

When you install a new idler arm you should also install a new pitman arm unless your pitman arm is still pretty tight.

If you install a new idler arm with a worn out pitman arm you will accelerate wear on the new idler arm because of the slop in the old pitman arm.

Whenever changing either component you need to do the "steering linkage parallelism adjustment" to make sure each part is parallel to the center link and each other.

If you do not do this adjustment your parts will wear out much faster than they should because of the incorrect angles and stress that it puts on both parts.

Usually these instruction come with the new parts, plus I remember posting these instructions around here somewhere.

Steve