AIM-Truckin strikes again....

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 6:33 am

I have been planning to remove my add-a-leafs and do the springs-over-axle conversion. Unfortunately the only stand-alone kit I could locate was through AIM/Truckin. The kit looked good on the site and looked like several kits for Jeeps I saw locally. They were selling it for $109. So I ordered it and held my breath....... Well....

First, the shipping and handling cost turned out to be $40. They shipped it UPS ground at only 15 lbs. Hmmmm, seems like mostly the AIM "handling" charge.

Second, there was absolutely no invoice, packing list or instructions included. Just a bunch of parts in bubble wrap. Nothing on paper at all. I have no idea if I got the correct parts, or all the parts.

Third, the parts look crude. 4 u-bolts that look like smaller diameter than factory, 4 nuts, 4 lock washers, 2 plates, and 2 perches. The perches look NOTHING like the ones shown on their site, or the Jeep models I saw locally. The perches are simply 1-3/4 x 3/8" bar stock bent to a squared off U shape to fit over the axle. The spring pin hole is grossly oversized (3/4" diameter). (The factory spring pin head & nuts, and hole in the perch, are much smaller. A tight fit is better to prevent shifting of the axle.) The holes in the plates are also grossly oversized. The washers they provided will almost fit through the holes they are to cover. I could have fabbed this myself and done a better job.

So I called AIM today (surprised they answered on Saturday). The guy was very gruff, acted like it was no big deal, and said the instructions were on the web site (I had it on screen and informed him they were not in the list of instruction PDFs.) So he took my work fax number and said he would fax me the packing list and the instructions. So I have to go into work to see if they arrived.

DON'T BUY AIM!

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 8:08 am

I'm still a bit confused as to why you're doing the spring over rear?

That will be at least a 4" lift on the rear. Without raising the front there may not be enough adjustment to correct the caster.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:07 am

HenryJ wrote:I'm still a bit confused as to why you're doing the spring over rear?

That will be at least a 4" lift on the rear. Without raising the front there may not be enough adjustment to correct the caster.

Ditto.

And I've ordered from aim with no problems. There isn't much to the flip kit. U-bolts and perch, that's about it.

Anyhow, you'll be set up for a nice SFA conversion now for the front. You got the rear stuff all ready.

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:38 am

HenryJ wrote:I'm still a bit confused as to why you're doing the spring over rear?

That will be at least a 4" lift on the rear. Without raising the front there may not be enough adjustment to correct the caster.

Well, remember all the discussion about my rear springs. They sagged significantly within about 8 months after I drove off the lot (about an inch). Then after the T-bar crank and before the add-a-leaf, my rear was right at 1.5" lower in the back than the front, as measured from wheel center to fender edge above. So, if I now remove the add-a-leaf and do the flip I should be right about 3" higher in back than front, and have a soft ride. Plus I hate the look of the axle over the springs. And like the "pre-runner" look of the rear a little high. I pulled up next to a ZR-2 today and its rear was quite a bit higher than the front. I like that look.

As far as AIM today - they did manage to fax my correct INVOICE. However, apparently they don't know what I ordered, because they faxed the wrong instructions. They faxed a drop kit PDF for relocating the springs from below to above the axle, and cutting out the frame for vertical travel space, like these little a$$ dragging trucks do. I'm well aware of how to do the lift, its just the principle of the thing now. Bait and switch photos, and poor customer service. I can beef up the parts to make them the way I want.

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:04 pm

The rear flip kit they gave me wasnt even a full kit. It was just U bolts that were the wrong size and 2 brackets that were a flats stick of metal with a 90 deg bend and a bolt welded on to it that had nothing to do with the kit. So I called them up and they gave me the same U bolts and 2 plates that were way too big.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:14 pm

Ok, I took a measurement on mine and flipping the axle will give you a 5" lift on the rear.

According to your June post your rear was 1.25" lower than the front. So after the axle over you should have 3.75" rake.

Personally , after the Boise spring works kit, I think mine is borderline too high in the rear. And it is only 1.5" higher than the front.

If it works for you that is all that counts, but before you go to all the work- Take it to your friendly alignment shop and check the front to see if there is enough room to adjust the caster to correct for that much lift in the rear.

They should be able to put it on the rack and jack up the rear bumper 3.75" to approximate the change. The excentric adjusters on our front suspension (upper a-arm) don't allow for huge adjustments, that is why trim heights need to be kept evenly raised.

It will handle very badly, borderline dangerous, if there is too much negative caster. (tends to dive left and right, touchy at high speeds and wheel return will be diminished when coming out of a turn)

What ever you do , make it reversable, just in case things don't work as you wanted. And lets see some pics of the process, just in case it turns out to be the best thing since PB&J "samiches"

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 3:14 pm

HenryJ wrote:Ok, I took a measurement on mine and flipping the axle will give you a 5" lift on the rear.

According to your June post your rear was 1.25" lower than the front. So after the axle over you should have 3.75" rake.

Personally, after the Boise spring works kit, I think mine is borderline too high in the rear. And it is only 1.5" higher than the front.

Man, going back and checking up on my data.

I calculated 5" as well with the flip. I'm going to leave out the overload spring since I don't haul, and just rely on properly set up bump stops for emergency hits. So that will cut off 1/2". (They are off right now.)

I just measured mine again. Currently the front is set at 21-1/2" (I backed it down some recently). The rear measures at 22-3/4". The add-a-leaf did 2-3/8", so without it my back is approximately 20-3/8". Adding roughly 5" for the flip puts my rear at 25-3/8". A tweak to the front will put my rear at roughly 3.5" to 3.75" higher than the front, depending on final setting if the front. So our math is similar.

One thing to keep in mind is that (before the add-a-leaf) if I put only a roll of toilet paper in the back, the truck rear level dropped.

Very soft. It will do that again after the flip. With a driver inside, I figure it will drop 1/2". I've never measured it with someone sitting inside, but it will drop more in the rear than the front I'm sure. If I put 2 rolls of toilet paper in the back, then it will get level

Everything I do to it will be reversible (by me, as the only one knowing where I did things). I'm planning to keep it another year, then will make it OEM again (if I trade it in). It just gives me something to tinker with for the small time periods I don't have my kids home (no luck with dating). I'm going to go ahead and do it for kicks to try it. I've lost the shipping cost already, and would loose another 35% in restocking if I send it back to AIM. Of the $148 it took to get it here, I would only get back $71 of it. It will be a good experiment anyway.

I have a set of Daystars, I could throw them on instead and be at near the same level. But I hate springs under.

Warnoffroad · Post by **Warnoffroad** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 3:39 pm

off topic: mike it still wont let me send mail to that yahoo account. what was that other account you gave me?

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 3:51 pm

warnoffroad wrote:off topic: mike it still wont let me send mail to that yahoo account. what was that other account you gave me?

mikeh3235@cfl.rr.com

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:03 am

i think that if you do the spring over, it will look like a stink bug, lol

but we will see. post pics right after you do it. i am real curious to see how it turns out

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:57 am

a2b wrote:i think that if you do the spring over, it will look like a stink bug, lol

but we will see. post pics right after you do it. i am real curious to see how it turns out

??????? Stink bug? You lost me. Do they crawl around with their tailend stuck up in the air?

It will be a while, if it happens at all. I spent some time under the rear measuring. The kit just seems pretty wrong.

1. The u-bolts AIM sent are flat-out wrong. They appear to be for a 3.125" axle tube, and mine is 2.630". (But my OEM u-bolts appear to be long enough to work.)

2. The perches are only 1.5" wide. There is 2.125" wide clear inside space inside the lower OEM perches. I don't think 1.5" wide gives enough lateral stability, even welded to the lower OEM perch. Our springs are 2.5" wide.

3. The perches are too high. With their legs resting on the top side of the lower OEM perch, there will be a gap of about 3/8" between the axle tube top and perch bottom. Thus the weight of the truck, plus the tension of the u-bolts, will ultimately be supported by ONLY the welds of the OEM perches (3/16"), trying to pull them off the bottom of the axle tube. If the OEM welds failed, the u-bolts would suddenly be loose by 3/8", and a crash would likely result.

The weight of the truck should rest on the axle tube directly. This add-on perch should just be present for torsional stability of the axle/spring connection. There should be steel from the new perch contacting the top of the axle tube, transferring the load to the tube.

The OEM configuration has the entire weight of the truck supported by the u-bolts bearing directly on the top surface of the axle tube. The OEM perch provides a square surface for the springs to clamp too (torsional and lateral stability).

Granted I can fix all those things fabbing in my garage. I can use my OEM u-bolts. I can make the perch legs wider. I can make the perch top spring resting surface wider by welding on 2.5" flat stock to the top. I can shorten the perch legs so that it just barely rests on the axle tube top to transfer the load to the axle instead of the lower perch welds. All this is similar to the Jeep kits I have seen locally. Maybe I should be using one of them. Might be less work. All I really need is good quality perches.

I'll be writing AIM a long e-mail tonight.

P.S. I just looked again at Quickbikers pic site. The Trailmaster perches are far better than the AIM.

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:06 am

warnoffroad wrote:The rear flip kit they gave me wasnt even a full kit. It was just U bolts that were the wrong size and 2 brackets that were a flats stick of metal with a 90 deg bend and a bolt welded on to it that had nothing to do with the kit. So I called them up and they gave me the same U bolts and 2 plates that were way too big.

I missed this when you wrote it. The u-bolts I got are wrong diameter also (3.125"). The welded on bolts are supposed to be the lower shock mount. What did you end up doing with your rear kit to make it work?

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:31 am

Mike H. wrote:
HEY QUICKBIKER, could you please take some close up pics of your rear set up (in the area of the perches) so I can see how Trailmaster fabs their kit? I'd appreciate it.

Sure, as soon as I get back from my trip. Should be back by next weekend or so. I am still breathing dust in the desert.

Should be back to the good ol U S of A soon. You may also be able to get some pics from my link, but ignore the first ones, I forgot the plates. lol

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:34 am

quickbiker wrote:
Mike H. wrote:
HEY QUICKBIKER, could you please take some close up pics of your rear set up (in the area of the perches) so I can see how Trailmaster fabs their kit? I'd appreciate it.

Sure, as soon as I get back from my trip. Should be back by next weekend or so. I am still breathing dust in the desert. Should be back to the good ol U S of A soon. You may also be able to get some pics from my link, but ignore the first ones, I forgot the plates. lol

Never mind, I found them and edited my post above, apparently while you were writing yours. Your pics on Webshots Community are great. The Trailmaster perches are way better.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:35 am

a2b wrote:i think that if you do the spring over, it will look like a stink bug, lol

but we will see. post pics right after you do it. i am real curious to see how it turns out

Yea, my rear is too high even with the TM kit in the front. But the rear a bit high is normal for IFS rigs especially. Cause the rear has alot more travel and sits high to accomodate extra weight.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:45 am

Mike,

I've seen a blazer with a spring over conversion in the back and left the front the same. It looked real bad. What you should do is put a jack under the rear of the truck and jack it up another 4". Sit in it and feel the difference. Personally, I feel that with all the weight pushing forward after raising the rear, the front will sag more. Not to mention the alignment, adjusting the headlights....

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:46 am

quickbiker wrote:Yea, my rear is too high even with the TM kit in the front. But the rear a bit high is normal for IFS rigs especially. Cause the rear has alot more travel and sits high to accomodate extra weight.

Did your TM perches rest against the top of your axle tube? I see you welded them to the top of the axle tube. No fear of burning through the axle tube?

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:55 am

Justin wrote:Mike,

I've seen a blazer with a spring over conversion in the back and left the front the same. It looked real bad. What you should do is put a jack under the rear of the truck and jack it up another 4". Sit in it and feel the difference. Personally, I feel that with all the weight pushing forward after raising the rear, the front will sag more. Not to mention the alignment, adjusting the headlights....

It would really only be only another 2-5/8" over what it is now. The add-a-leaf did 2-3/8" and I'll take that back off. Was the Blazer a short wheel base or 4-door? Did he do any crank to the front t-bars?

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 9:59 am

i still vote stink bug

Mike H. · Post by **Mike H.** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:21 am

a2 wrote:i still vote stink bug

Gee whiz guys

If it will let you sleep better tonight, I'll just start off with putting on the Daystar shackles (which I have sitting still new in their box), with the add-a-leafs left on. Then measure, drive, align, post pics, etc. That better? It still won't be a true picture though, because I still have the little pizza cutter tires on it.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:29 pm

if your leaf's are that bad, I would think GM owes you a new set. I personally think the stock leafs are perfect.