Any one have any Knowledge of Centramatic Wheel Balancers?

[F9K9]

Centramatic Wheel Balancers. Allot of the Heepers with larger tires swear by them. I'm having problems with just 33/12.50 X 16 BFG MTs on my other vehicle. They do have sizes to fit our CC and at approx. $50 per wheel I can see them paying for themselves rather quickly versus having the tire/wheel combo balanced 2-3 times.

[HenryJ]

Some trucks around here used them, but that was quite a while ago. You hardly ever see them now.

How about using air soft pellets? I am hearing good results from those. Easy to install. Cheap.

Expedition Portal - airsoft pellet tire balancing?

Automatic Tire Balancing Using Airsoft Pellets

For those of us with large tires, 33” or taller, having perfectly balanced tires seems more a fantasy than a reality. Especially if your tires say Interco on the side. As you know, tires are normally balanced by putting them on a special machine which tells the technician where the tire is out of balance and by how much. They will attach weights to the side of your wheel and viola, the tire is fully balanced.

Why Reinvent the Wheel Weight?
So traditional wheel balancing sounds okay, but here is the problem. The larger the tire, the further away from the wheel the tire gets. That means the balancing weights are further from the tread and it requires more weight to balance the tire. Also, a larger tire weighs more overall and potentially could require more counter weights to balance the tire’s greater mass. Add these two things together and there could me a lot of weight on the side of your wheel.

First of all, having 6” of wheel covered with weights is ugly and they can damage the finish on the wheel. Second of all, it’s bound to get knocked off when you come in contact with a rock. It will happen eventually if you drive on rocks. You probably won’t notice until you stop to air your tires up and that weight will be long gone and your tire is now out of balance.

The other problem is tire wear and how it affects tire balance. Tires don’t always wear evenly. Even when they do, the weight distribution can change putting your tire out of balance. The only solution to this is to get your tires re-balanced every 10k miles or do one of the following.

This idea isn’t really new, but the way you apply it has matured quite a bit. The idea is to move the weight as far to the outside of the tire as possible and to make it so the tire is always in perfect balance. The way to do that is to put weight inside the tire which is as far away from the center of the wheel you can get and use some sort of material that can freely move around to naturally balance the tire when it spins.

How it Works
The physics of how/why the free mass inside the tire automatically knows where to go is hard to conceptualize. The best way to understand why this works is to exaggerate the problem. Imagine there is a 5 lb weight fixed to one place on the tire. When you spin that tire to normal high way speeds, it will be so terribly out of balance that the tire would probably hope off the ground with every rotation. The axis of rotation is actually moved away from the center of the wheel toward this extra mass because it’s pulling the whole tire with it as it spins. The free moving balancing weights inside the tire are not affected the same way by these forces. First as you get up to speed, centripetal force will make the balancing weight stick to the inside of the tire. Then the force of the imbalanced weight on the tire will move this balancing weight away from the imbalance. When enough of the mass is opposite of the imbalance, the vibration disappears and the axis that the tire is rotating on returns back to the center.

To give you another example to explain why the balancing weight moves away from the imbalance and balances the system, think about what happens when you accelerate fast in a car. Anything that’s loose moves to the back of the vehicle. This same force is created on an imbalanced spinning tire. The imbalance is jerking the tire sending the free mass inside away from it and the centripital force holds it here.

What to Use
Okay, so we know the theory about why it works, but what do you use for the weight inside your tire? Over the years people have used some pretty strange things from golf balls, steel BBs to water. None of these are very good at balancing your tires. Golf balls have too much mass for each unit so they can’t balance a tire as evenly as using many more less massive weights. BBs work well to evenly balance the tire because they’re small and heavy, but their material is their downfall. Moisture does exist in your tire unless you always fill them with Nitrogen. The BBs will eventually rust and completely disintegrate over time.

Water can work, but it is slower to align itself because of its high surface tension. Also, since you wouldn’t use much, as far as volume, the water would have to spread thin and would likely evaporate after a season’s worth of airing down your tires. Other substances like Nu-Mag, Equal, Magnum and other balancing powders are susceptible to clumping as they absorb this same moisture and they're not round, so they don't roll into position quickly.

There are a couple of commercially available products designed just for balancing tires. One company in particular, Innovative Balancing, has developed a product that works very well. They call them Dyna Beads. They are small ceramic balls that can be inserted through the valve stem. Since they are perfectly round, they quickly roll into position and adapt to balancing changes. They will not clump from moisture inside the tire. Since the media is small, they recommend a filtered valve stem so you don’t loose any of the media when air is released.

Compared to other media and bolt on balancers, the Dyna Beads are a bargain. On average, to buy the media, filtered valve cores and the removal tool for four tires, you’re looking at about $60. They claim their beads reduce the operating temperature of the tire and can extend tread life 35%. They have also developed a great chart which you can use to determine how much balancing media you need. Use it here, http://www.innovativebalancing.com/BigTirechart.htm.

Always one to save a buck or two at the expense of some effort, I found Airsoft pellets to be an excellent alternative that has most of the benefits of Dyna Beads and none of the drawbacks of the alternatives. Airsoft pellets are too large to fill through the valve stem and they are less massive per unit, so they’re not as efficient as Dyna Beads, but still very good. They are perfectly round balls of high density plastic which will not clump from moisture or breakdown over time. I ordered 2 KG of pellets online for $26 shipped to my door.

Installation (1 hr)
I got creative, but you can use a Hi-Lift jack to unseat the bead of your tires. Simply remove all of the air from the tire by removing the valve stem and place the base of the Hi-Lift right where the bead seats on the tire. Then position the jack underneath something heavy like a sturdy work bench or your rig and begin jacking. Once you get the hang of it, you can do all four in less than an hour. Please be careful, Hi-Lifts are dangerous and mix this with putting a lot of force on an unstable tire, you could get hurt. There are other products like Tyreplyers which are supposed to work well. Using Innovative Balancing’s chart above to determine how much media to use, I dumped the pellets in and reseated the tire. One of the beauties of this system is its okay if you put more than the recommended amounts. In fact, it’s better to go over than under because the extra material will just find a neutral place inside the tire and will not affect the balance.

Results
Now take it out and enjoy tires that are rebalanced every time you drive. I have to get up to about 20 mph for the pellets to stick to the inside of the tire and begin working. It’s at speeds greater than 20 when tires need to be balanced. They will not fall off the tire until a you’re below 5 mph. I can hear the pellets fall off when the window is down, but otherwise, I never notice they are there. My tires have never been balanced and they are worn very unevenly and ride terribly on the road. After using the pellets, the operation was noticeably smoother and quieter. All of the uneven wear has evened out. I’m sure using them from the beginning when the tires are new will yield greater gains than I have. I have yet to confirm the extended tread life claims because that’s impossible to measure. Your driving habits will influence this a lot.

I used Crosman AirSoft 6mm .12g BBs. So 1000 BBs = apx 4.25 oz. I am running about 2000 BBs per tire to get the recommended 8 oz of weight per 33" tire. I installed them myself but used a tire machine to pop the beads which made the process very easy.

Ok guys. I bit the bullet and did this. I put 14 oz of .2g black airsoft pellets in each new 285/70/17 BFG AT. The guys at discount tire were very complimentary of the idea which was nice because costco, sams, and NTB all turned up their noses at it. I went heavier than recommended with the pellets because the BFG's are pretty heavy at 54lbs each and I didn't want to have to do it twice.

The truck is super smooth now and balances perfectly. I can't hear any noise from the pellets unless I drive with the windows down next to a tall concrete wall or in a parking garage where sound bounces around a lot.

The ride is way better than with the Goodyear MTR's probably because the BFG AT is more suited for road driving and because they are actually balanced.

Total cost $23

special note. DONT USE BIODEGRADABLE AIRSOFT PELLETS they will disentigrate in your tires..

Dyna Beads offers Tire Balancing Solutions

[F9K9]

Airsoft and Dyna beads are very common. I just liked the plug and play of the Centramic set up. I really like ATs but, MTs are needed in many cases and then you have to deal with their inherent problems.

[HenryJ]

I think I would rather try spending under $30 on a solution before I went to $200.

That much rotational mass worries me. Another reason I am running the tall skinnies.
BTW, the old S-10 is running my old 33x9.50s and the mileage increased almost 3 mpg best change I made to that old truck. 4.10 gears, 5 speed trans and 33 tires is a good mix.

[F9K9]

I think I would rather try spending under $30 on a solution before I went to $200.........

I wholeheartedly agree Just was wondering if, a member here had paved the way instead of us always trying to reinvent a better mousetrap

[roadrunner]

An old friend of mine used to use something like these centramatics and swore by them. I don't remember if that was the name they went by but he had them on a Ford F250 4x4 with 32 inch tall tires and never added any weights to the rims in the conventional manner. I rode with him many times in all kinds of weather and terrain and conditions and they never seemed to be out of balance. I personally never tried them on any of my vehicles but he sure liked them. He also seemed to get excellent tire wear longevity with them too.

[HenryJ]

I am going to give dynamic balancing a try.
This will be small scale. I really wanted to try the AirSoft pellets, but those are too large to insert through a valve stem.
This test will be on the TW200. It has a pretty big tire on the back. I figure anything I can do to reduce vibrations is a benefit. Air Soft is not an option as these are tube tires.
I am going to add Dyna Beads to the tires. Under $20 to do both tires. I contacted an ebay seller ( jwitchdoctor@aol.com ) for the best price. Large quantities through the product website may be a reasonable deal, but for smaller quantities the handling charges were a little high.
Lots of raves on their performance. I figure they are worth a try as there is no balancing on these right now.

Dyna beads demo video on Youtube

If they work out well I may AirSoft balance my trucks tires next go around.

[F9K9]

.............If they work out well I may AirSoft balance my trucks tires next go around.

Allot of heepers are now trying to get away from the "pellet philosophy" for various reasons. Keep us posted on your findings. I hope it happens before I spin another tire on the rim when I am aired down and on the rocks. I am looking at STAUN INTERNAL BEAD LOCKS and pellets are not going to work with them. Centramatic Wheel Balancers would be a good alternative to continuous balancing costs.

[roadrunner]

I would be skeptical about putting anything inside the tires to aid in balance. The dynamics of tire flex and deflection from bumps in the road would interfere with the ability to maintain balance. I say this because I am currently running tire slime in tires on my mail car. It will frequently vibrate after hitting bumps etc. IMO the balancers would be better as they do not contact the road hence are not as subject to impact change through the tire.

[HenryJ]

Actually I think the Dyna Beads would work just fine in a tire with internal bead locks like those. They would probably need to be installed into the valve stem of the tire after mounting and inflation of the internal beadlock tube.

Roadrunner, you are talking to the quintessential skeptic here! Preach'n to the choir man!

Slime and some liquid tire treatments are a no brainer for causing imbalance problems. The same problem exists with other media that is wet. It just won't flow as readily.

Hitting bumps doesn't bother the dynamic balancing media. It may even serve to counteract the reaction. Ever use a dead blow hammer? Seems like the effect would be similar. The time it takes to redistribute is not detectable.

Check out the water bottle video I linked above. That is pretty easy to see and understand. A good example of how quickly it works. The example is exaggerated for sure. Effects on the scale of a tire would be harder to demonstrate in such a visual manner. The video on the Centramatic website is a good example that shows the balls in place to counteract the imbalance using a strobe light. This is all the same principal. I am not sure there is a big advantage in the Centramatic, or at least not a $150 advantage.

How it works has pictures of it , but the bottle was a better example for me.

None of this is "new" I have seen balancing beads in big truck tires for years and years.

The science makes sense to me. The media is good as the ceramics are durable ,corrosion resistant , good mass for the size.

There are some saying it has been tested on tire spin balancers and it does not work. A spin balancer has a dynamic axle to measure the imbalance. That is why they don't shake across the floor when the tire is needing weight. Testing in that way is flawed. Those machines are designed to measure the forces transferred to the axle. The media in the tire would have no effect as there would be no forces transferred to them. The shaft is absorbing it all.

For me the idea makes sense. Lots of things have and I get proven wrong, or find flaws in the application. We will see. It is a small scale test. I like the fact I will save quite a bit over the cost of a spin balance.
The trick is to add enough. Without a measurement of the amount of weight needed to balance, it is a guessing game as to how much to add.
I have the benefit of a bubble balancer. With that I can measure the amount needed to balance and add an amount equal to or more than is required. More is not going to matter unless you count the additional rotational mass.

I can see places where these might not be appropriate. Road racing where high G lateral loads are applied. Maybe drag racing where a tire wraps hard on a launch. I think they should shine where they are needed most. At highway speeds on a smooth road where any imbalance would normally be felt. On a rough gravel road, how are you even going to know you have a tire out of balance?

The Thumper should be a good test. there is no doubt that it will be easy to get a "feel" for any imbalance.

[killian96ss]

Since it hasn't been brought up yet I would suggest getting you tires balanced on a tire balancer that apllies a load to the tire to simulate actual driving conditions which regular spin balancers do not do.

I know Hunter makes these types of balancers.

Hunter GSP9700

After having some tires balanced on one of these machines I can say for sure they really do work better than the standard spin balancers that more than 90% of the shops out there use.

The tires on my SS are balanced on GSP9700 and they are great all the way up to 165 mph.

Steve

[roadrunner]

Still skeptical. The advantage of the centramatics is they are a rigid media for the weight to float around in. Not so the tire. It flexes and gives with road contact and torsional forces from steering etc. Let us know how the thumper works out.

[HenryJ]

The pictures and description of the Dyna beads did not paint a clear picture for me.

They are small! These measure .042" and they are heavy. Not quite like handling lead shot, but heavier than BB's It really is surprising how much such a small amount weighs.

I added 2 ounces to the front tire and 3 ounces to the rear. The engraver trick to vibrate the valve stem is a must. I can not imagine trying to be patient enough to carefully dribble them into a valve stem.
Tossing the degradable baggies in a tubeless tire is going to be much easier.

I feel better about having spent $17 on these after having seen the product. It is amazing how they react and move. There is a slight static charge in the plastic baggies. You can see the influence this has on the tiny ceramic orbs as they wiggle and jiggle around the influence. They pour like water out of the baggies into a bottle. I used a clean bottle with clear tube left over from an application of Slime to the Bicycle tires.
Clipping the corner of the bag I poured them in.
You know how you flick the baggie to get all the crumbs to fall to the bottom? These really do seem to be influenced less by that method. Opening the bag and a little shake and they fall , better than tapping the bag. I may not be conveying that very well, but the properties are very different from a material that is less dense.
Maybe there is a little "magic" in these beads?

Time will tell. Now bring on spring weather! Amazing how we had sunshine and upper forties this morning and now the temperature is falling almost as fast as the snow is coming down.

[F9K9]

Great update! Feeding those things through a tire valve was never an option for 33" + tires. Most just broke a bead loose to ad them. A tubed mc tire is another animal altogether.

[jedthrocornpone]

I'm ready for a update I would love to have these work as it seems my Zr5 goes out of balance every time I leave the pavement. That and I need to schedule my purchases as $$ is tight these days. and the more time I have to acquire these beads the better

[F9K9]

I'm ready for a update I would love to have these work as it seems my Zr5 goes out of balance every time I leave the pavement. That and I need to schedule my purchases as $$ is tight these days. and the more time I have to acquire these beads the better

Brule is testing them in MC tires (at the least) and I was looking at 33"+ tires. I wheel with a guy on 37s that likes the Centramics but, allot of guys use Brule's approach. The only definitive thing that I can tell you is that the guys running beads get a bunch of odd ball looks at stop lights when the beads are rattling around and settling to the bottom.

[HenryJ]

They seem to work great in the motorcycle tires. They feel in balance as far as I have taken it.
I was convinced enough to buy 40 ounces to have on hand to install in the wife's next set of tires and still have some left over for my truck. The shop that would spin balance tires for me closed up. The owner retired. My "free" balance jobs are gone, so I think these will be the replacements.

The guy who did the group buy on beads has raised his price and may be gathering up for another buy. You won't get them for $1 per ounce this time though.

I can not report how well they will work in the trucks tires yet. I tend to think that they will work better in a tall narrow tire, than a short wide one. Mine are tall and narrow, so I do believe they will work well. I am anxious to test them in tires on our Maxx. That will be later this summer though.

I have not priced the Airsoft pellets. They may be a good alternative. Those might be worth a try first?

[AZS10Crew]

Well...I finally pulled the trigger on getting some of these for my truck after debating for several weeks. I ordered them today, so once they arrive and I install them in the tire, I'll get you guys an update.

[HenryJ]

I am anxious to hear. Be sure to let us know what tire size , the amount of beads you add (ounces) and the type (dyna, airsoft, etc.)

[AZS10Crew]

I ordered the Dyna Beads. The tires are 305/70R17 Wrangler MT/R's (basically a 34x12.5R17), and I ordered 8oz of beads for each tire, which was the recommendation on www.innovativebalancing.com for my tire size. They're scheduled to arrive tomorrow, so hopefully I'll get them in next weekend and let you guys know.

[AZS10Crew]

Got the Dyna Beads last week and finally got around to installing them in the front tires earlier this week. I've been driving with them for a couple days now and so far, so good. I have not yet removed any wheel weights to confirm that they work without weights. I may not because my new wheels came with stick on weights, and I figure they'll fall off soon enough anyway.

Install was pretty easy...just time consuming as I installed through the valve stem by removing the core. You really have to be patient and keep a slow steady pace of beads rolling down the tube, otherwise the valve stem gets clogged and backs up into the tube causing you to stop and tap the tube several times to clear the backup.

Overall I'm pretty happy so far. We'll see how they do long term. I'll probably get the rear ones in this weekend and see how that goes.

[HenryJ]

Get The Lead Out (it is all about balance)

[AZS10Crew]

I've had mine in for about 1000 miles now and so far, so good.

[jedthrocornpone]

I've been stashing pennies for inner tube style beadlocks for my yet to be completed white s10 and I just saw that the beads are being used with Staun beadlocks...............wicked cool I'm ordering beads for my CC right now.......will let you all know what I think

[Horsehammerr]

I got my new Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10s in 30x9.5x15 put on my 8x15x3 3/4BS alloys with Dyna Beads recommended 5oz. of beads per tire. All lead was removed before mounting and the two 2oz. and one 1oz. bags were put in myself in each tire before tire beads were set. Front tires at 45lbs. rear at 35lbs. I pulled out of the shop on to the highway and nailed it. In about 100 yards smooth as glass. I think I feel a little bumpy at take-off once in a while but I'm sort of a skeptic and tend to look for problems on something new. You gotta prove it to me. Missouri "SHOW ME STATE" fits real good on me.

[Horsehammerr]

Oh Yeah! The reason for the 1oz. and 2oz. bags of Dyna Beads! The only place in 150 miles of here that carries the Dyna Beads is a Bike Shop. 1oz. for up to 3"x21" front bike tires and 2oz. for the rears. They sold these 3oz. kits for $10.95, well, after some major discussion on math about 2oz.+2oz.+1oz.=5oz. that I needed for each tire. Then the time for the smoke from his ears to clear the guy says I'll let you have 25oz. for $50.00. I payed and hauled it on outta thar. The extra 5oz.was for my spare, but I can't seem to locate a cheap 8x15x3 3/4"bs wheel to match my others, so I'll just keep them aside until one shows up.

[HenryJ]

I'm ready for a update

Now we are ready for an update. How are these working for you?

[jedthrocornpone]

got like 7,000+ miles on them and I dig them if I try to find vibration I can I get a little wiggle @ 57ish and a again @ 70 but for me its no biggy I'm only doing 55,60,or65. I've had no odd tire ware issues. I have however rubbed up against enough stuff that I'm all but sure lead wieghts (had they been there) would be gone

I'm a penny pinching kinda guy and I would buy them again in a heart beat

[Horsehammerr]

I've tried a little air pressure change now and then. Mostly just checking for different traction in snow , ice , mud and I really am sold on these Dyna beads. I have had no change in balance at any pressure or speed that is noticeable. That is on these Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10 30x9.5x15's. I did remove all outside lead when I installed the beads.Got 10,000 miles on and showing perfect even ware with full rotation every 3,000 miles. Running 5 lbs. heavy in front with empty bed, increase rear 1-2 lbs. per 200 lbs. load increase. Empty 43 lbs. front , 38 lbs. rear. Checked Bi-weekly