2 inch lift questions?????

[vrodracing90]

I have been all over the place on what I was going to do. I have decided to go with the Rough Country 2 inch lift kit. It should be here today. Since I am a newbe at S-10's I am look to all of you for advise. I have a 04 Crew Cab 4x4 LS it is not a ZR5. I picked this kit because I just wanted the truck to sit a little higher and a little bigger tires. Here are my questions.

What back spacing should I get on new 8" wheels? I am installing 31x10.5x15 BFG KO's.

What back spacing is on stock rims?

I have checked on my codes in the glove box and found out that I have 3.42 gears. How much do you think that it will change the power and speed o?

Is there anything to look out for on this kit?

Does Bushwacker or anyone make fender flares for a Crew Cab?

Who do you like for a programer for this 4.3 and can recalibrate the speed o?

On the wheels I have looked at Mickey Thompson and Dick Cepek and the most back spacing that they offer is 3 3/4 to 4 inches is this right?

I read that post that you sent me to but I did not remember if I read it here. I could have swore that someone wrote that stock wheels had 6 inches of back spacing or that you needed 6 inches of back spacing in new wheels. When you went to 31x10.5 tires on 8 inch rims???? I don't know.

just got a call from my sales man at Rough Country and he is recommending me to cancel my order because he said that people are having alignment problems with this kit????? Is anyone had or having problems with this????

Now that he said this should I spend the extra money and get the superlift 2" kit and cancel this one? I DO NOT WANT A BODY LIFT.

[green02crew]

I wouldn't get the torsion key reindexers. You might as well just crank your torsion bars. The new keys will make it worse. The rear can easily be lifted for under $100 with longer shackles or add a leafs. Save the money or get a real lift kit the 5-6" ones that are available.

What is wrong with a body lift? I don't have one because theres no way I'm going to break the rust to do it but where you are located I don't see an issue at all and safety isn't a question.

Backspacing stock is 6". I prefer stock rims with spacers since you can be more exact. New rims the front will stick out further than the rear which looks odd but its up to you. You will need something to stick them out 1-2" further but not too far or you'll have rubbing issues again.

Fender flares are few and far between and pricey. Search for those on here and wait around until someone decides to part with them.

A lot of people like the Hypertech programmers. You can also send your PCM in to various companies and have it programmed, it is up to you.

[HenryJ]

Now that he said this should I spend the extra money and get the superlift 2" kit and cancel this one? I DO NOT WANT A BODY LIFT.

Do a search and some reading on the 2" suspension lifts. There are not good options for a suspension lift under 5".
I am not sure where your preconceptions for the body lift came from, but do some reading about those here as well.

Hold on to your money and buy no lift or wheels at this time. Some research will make things much clearer.

[F9K9]

Do not open the SL box. Get a return Authorization Number from the retailer and pay for it to be shipped back. Do a bunch of reading and searching. Sending the SL back and eating the shipping is going to save you major money and grief! Searching and/or asking questions prior to ordering that lift what have been a good start.

Hold off on wheels until you have a better grasp of the situation.

[vrodracing90]

Do a search and some reading on the 2" suspension lifts. There are not good options for a suspension lift under 5".
I am not sure where your preconceptions for the body lift came from, but do some reading about those here as well.

Hold on to your money and buy no lift or wheels at this time. Some research will make things much clearer.

I just really do not like the looks of a truck with a body lift. You are right that there are not alot of options it is 2, 5 or 6 inch lifts kits. My Crew Cab looks like a 2wd. The reason that I was looking at a 2 inch kit was that I only wanted to put 31x10.50x15's on it. I did not want to have to change gears to get my power back. I have drove one with a 6 inch kit and 33's it was a dog with 3.73 gears. I was not trying to get away cheap it is just that I did not want to have to get a 5 inch kit and have to install tires taller than 31's to fill the fenders. So, now hopefully you will see my problem. Sure I do not want problems with my truck. I have read that some people are having problems with the 2 inch kit. I have talked to Rough Country and Super lift on the 2 inch kits this morning. There are problems with both kits. There is alignment problems when the lift was pushed to 3 inches. They also stated that if you go 1" 1/2 to 2 inches. The ride is like stock and SHOULD not cause any problems. Have any of you tried this kit? Now, I also talked to the people at Rough Country and they will take the kit back if I do not want it. Trust me I am not going ot jump into installing or anything till I do more research and talk to more of you about it.[/i][/b]

[green02crew]

Some people have purchased it, I don't know about crewcabs but on other s-10 sites. The thing with that kit is why spend your money on it? You can crank your torsion bars high enough to the point of severe angle without having to add new keys about 2". Saves you money since all you have to pay for is an alignment which you'd need anyways. Also the rear you can lift with add a leaf or shackles for under $100. Synergy Offroad has some different lift options available along with other companies. Add a leaf will stiffen the ride while shackles won't change a thing.

That is what you're getting with one of the other kits that lifts 2". Why pay for it when you could do it yourself in a couple hours for under $100. Just make sure you get an alignment.

Also remember if you want 31x10.5s you'll have to get wheel spacers. They will rub on the frame at full lock and possibly other places. This is after a full t-bar crank and shackles. Trust me, I tried this. 30x9.5 fits without rub with cranked bars and shackles - the 2" you're talking about.

There really isn't an option to lift the suspension other than messing with the torsion bars and shackles or AAL unless you get the 5-6" kits. The 2" kit is a gimmick. I did shackles in the rear and cranked my torsion bars upfront and my truck sits level with 2" of lift. I did not spend money on keys either but there are other problems to look for. Search for tbar crank and you'll get some hits.

[vrodracing90]

Thanks. for the advise. I do like my truck it gives me 21-22mpg and it is a 4x4. So no complaints about that. It is just that I hunt and the truck looks like a 2wd. Which stinks. It is really a shame that there are not more options out there. When I was looking at spending 2,600 on a lift and 1,500 on wheels and tires. It make me look at selling my truck and getting a new colorado with the 5.3 V-8. The difference then is 8,000 dollars. It comes with 32 inch tall tires from the factory. Yet mine comes with 29 inch tires Which does not make since??? I just got my truck and had to drive 7 hours to get it. I like it but I want it to look like a 4wd truck. [/i][/b]

[HenryJ]

Check out the marvelous mystery lift. No doubt it is a 4x4 then.

Plenty have gone to 30" tires with good results. Check out Barch97 truck as an example.
The other side is to make it look more like a 2wd if you don't offroad. Check out Jim's truck for that direction.

The readers rides picture thread has lots of pictures with specifications.

[vrodracing90]

Well, I hunt and fish so I need my 4wd. I also take care of my family's farm when I am not working or drag racing on the circut. So, a 4wd is a must for me. The reason that I got a S-10 is I like Chevy but I wanted something small like a Tacoma to go hunting and stuff. I also have a Super Duty 1 ton Dually 4x4 which is not small and it is not easy to go through trails on the deer lease. I looked into to maintance and a engine kit for a 3.4 toyota is $2,200 at cost and a 4.3 is $500 no labor. Plus a 4.3 is nothing more than a 350 with two cylinders cut off. The only thing that I did not look at was how little was out there for lifts for it before I bought it 4 months ago.

A guy sent me this about his RC lift tell me what you think???

i just finished installing the kit on a 98 jimmy 4dr 4wd. these are my thoughts....

so far, its not a bad kit, just takes a long time to install (we did replace all the steering components along with the ball joints from synergy, also replaced a cv shaft and a differential seal). these little trucks just are not very friendly to modifying, the upper control arm travel and angle change is rediculous. the new upper control arms are MUCH more stout looking than the stock stamped parts. RC instructed to turn the bars until 21" of distance from the stub axle to the top of the fender opening....thats too much, the cvs were at a rediculous angle. i set it to just about 20" of distance, the cvs are much happier now ( i know they will still be eaten, hopefully not as fast). even with teaking the hell out of the brake line brackets to get the brake and abs lines right up to the arm, they are still nearly touching the inside lip of the wheel when turned at full lock, id recommend running spacers or different wheels than stock. we will be running 16s from a ZQ8 sonoma with 30.5in toyo open country a/t tires. the truck is sitting level and looks pretty good, ride pretty nice too. but in my quick attempt at an alignment, the truck wouldnt go fully into specs. im not good at these alignments so ill take it to a shop and let them deal with it.

The truck is done except for installing the new wheels and tires. it actually rides and drives suprisingly well even tho the rear shocks are a bit stiff. the annoying wallowing is gone and the truck is overall more stable. thinking however that ill need to get the new wheels and tires on asap so that i dont rip the abs wiring off since they and the brake line brackets are actually rubbing the wheels on full lock turns.


[/i][/b]

[HenryJ]

Give him time. The boots will fail if the ball joints don't go first. It takes the ball joints beyond the available range of motion.
If you plan to keep it long term, don't do it. If it is a street queen and will be traded in the next couple years, go ahead and let it be the next persons problems.

What gears do you have?
If you have the 3.73 gear ratio, check out the mystery lift. That will make your truck all that you will ever want. The flares are no longer available, but the cuts can be made and run without flares.

Other wise, go with a 2" bodylift and 30" tires. That will do what you want and look like a 4x4. Check out Mark's truck (AZS10Crew) That is a good looking truck on 30" tires.

[vrodracing90]

What is the mystery lift? I would like to know more.

Yes I did check the codes and my truck does have 3.73 gears.

I have not decided if I am going to keep it long term or not yet. I would have went with a suspension lift. I talked to the guy at BDS and he told me the smallest I could go on tires with a 5 inch lift is 32. He said it really needs 33's. I was hoping that like on some lifts you could make it a little less that stated. That was not the case here. I have not heard anything good about the Trail Master Kit from several places that lift trucks. So, that really leaves me with not too many options.

I had thought about quite a few things even getting rid of the truck. Because I have someone that will give me 11,500 for my truck. A lift is 2,600 and wheels, tires are another 2,000 and 400 for a programer. It made me look at what I would have tied up in this truck. Because the new 09 Colorado 4x4 you can get with a 5.3 v-8 and 17x32's on it from the factory for about $10,000 more than what I would have tied up into my S-10 with a suspension lift. I remember my Z-71 that I had a lift, wheels, tires and extras. Probably totalling $7,000 extras and it added nothing to its value when I sold it.

Lately I've thought the RC 2 inch kit. One of the things that got me to this kit was I looked under my truck and noticed that it needs shocks. This kit comes with the shocks. So I was going to be out that money no matter what. I was going to install it at the smallist bind on the front end. I am getting kind of discusted that their are not any good options. As you can see I am really confused on what to do.

[HenryJ]

What is the mystery lift? I would like to know more.

The Search button will yield all the answers.

[vrodracing90]

Good read. At the moment still really don't want a body lift may have to.

What is wrong with the different index keys for the tortion bar?[/i][/b]

[HenryJ]

What is wrong with the different index keys for the tortion bar?

...You can crank your torsion bars high enough to the point of severe angle without having to add new keys ...

Like he said, you can already crank the stock indexers beyond operating ranges for the upper ball joints , lower ball joints and the CV joints.
There is no need for indexers to go further unless you add a 16,000 lb winch and a plow. Then you might need more adjustment.

[green02crew]

I explained somewhat in previous posts, henryj did as well. The create a very steep angle, you will wear parts out much faster. You torsion bars are designed to only go up to a certain height and no higher, just turning them up by stock to maximum will give you approximately 2" if that is what you're looking for. They will remain in operational range but may cause a boot to come loose, and it adds some wear on parts. Adding the keys will push cv shafts past operational range, some people have experienced binding due to this. You will also accelerate wear on parts such as your ball joints due to the extreme angles. You are guaranteed to have a boot come off as well slinging grease and possibly destroying some front end components at a cost to you.

Search for the kit on this forum or others and you will see the issues it has caused. I too thought about getting it for a short period of time until I was woken up by the people on this site to its issues.

Crank the torsion bars and add shackles or add a leaf for 2"
Get a body lift for 2"
Do both for 4"
There are many possibilities and those seem much better an option than the new keys. The prices are about equal as well. 4" costs just a little more than the 2". In doing that some people have gotten by with 33" tires.

[vrodracing90]

The reason I was asking about the tortion keys was because someone told me that just installing the key get you 1 inch of lift. Yet does not affect the ride like cranking up the tortion bar without it? I know that on one of my old Z-71's I cranked up the tortion bar 2 inches and it rode like a tank.

Hey, I am not arguing against you. Someone stated that I needed to my research and I did but it was only a few people. So, I ask questions based on what they told me to find out if it is true or not. [/i][/b]

[green02crew]

To my knowledge and the way I see it, replacing the keys would allow for more tension to be put on the torsion bars and thats how the lift is achieved. You are still adjusting the torsion bars and changing the ride characteristics. The keys just allow you to adjust the bars past the stock specifications and what is allowed from factory equipment. It will ride more stiff with the torsion bars turned up or adding keys. Have you ever ridden in a full size 3/4 ton? Those ride pretty stiff. I think ours rides too soft and I like the extra stiffness it also helps with handling and cornering

[vrodracing90]

Yes, I had a 1/2 ton HD 4x4 and when I cranked the tortion bar and raised it 2 inches it rode like a tank. I was trying to keep a good ride.

One thing that is confusing is if cranking the tortion bar up makes tears up boots and ball joints it seems like changing the upper control arm like on the RC kit is good? Right?

Truthfully I don't know what I am going to do? I have started looking at suspension kits again. Damm a 5 inch is the smallest. I am sure that it will ride better.[/i][/b]

[HenryJ]

The angle of the lower arm is what makes it ride firmer. Shorter=less leverage. As you turn the arm downward you reduce the length due to swinging on a radius.
None of this is going to be a deal breaker in my book. A little firmer is good. Personally I don't think there is any noticeable difference. Some say there is. It is the same torsion bar and the difference in length is minimal so leverage does not change much.

If you crank until you preload the upper stops, then yes it is going to run rougher. Such is not the case with stock indexers adjusted to the max Z height for the s-series crew cabs.

Suspension drop kits will not alter the ride. They move the components down. They do not change geometry or spring rates.

[vrodracing90]

If you crank until you preload the upper stops, then yes it is going to run rougher. Such is not the case with stock indexers adjusted to the max Z height for the s-series crew cabs.

How much lift can you get by cranking on the stock keys vs aftermarket keys? [/i][/b]

[vrodracing90]

Oh, by the way I do thank everyone for their help. One other thing what if I scratch this idea and go with a 5 inch kit for BDS. What is the smallest tire that you can run and not look bad? Isnt a ZR2 3 inches taller than ours? [/i][/b]

[HenryJ]

An inch of that is tires, two inches in the suspension mounting points. Cranked t bars and 31" tires we sit about an inch shorter. 3" narrower too.

[vrodracing90]

What is your opinion on my question above about the BDS 5 inch kit and smallest size tires?

[vrodracing90]

I am just confused on what I am going to do now??????

[HenryJ]

What is your opinion on my question above about the BDS 5 inch kit and smallest size tires?

Getting way off topic, but wide 31" or narrow 33". The more tire the more balljoints.
My opinion really is useless as I would not do a 5" or 6" IFS lift.

[vrodracing90]

What is your opinion on my question above about the BDS 5 inch kit and smallest size tires?

Getting way off topic, but wide 31" or narrow 33". The more tire the more balljoints.
My opinion really is useless as I would not do a 5" or 6" IFS lift.

How come? I value everyones opinion.

It just seems like by cranking the tortion bar 2 inches and shackels in the rear it will be tight getting 31's to clear. If they clear it might be close going threw holes hitting the fender or at full lock? What do you think?[/i][/b]

[HenryJ]

31" tires will not clear with a TB crank. They will just clear with a 2" body lift.
30" tires will barely clear with a TB crank. They will still rub without a body lift.
29" tires (stock optional offroad) will rub. With a TB crank they will clear pretty well and only rub under hard articulation.

Measure your clearances. Tire on curb. Measure the tightest position. How much do you have? Measure the rear opening. It is only 31".

[04crewvt]

Here's a link to a photo of my rig on Crotched Mountain. This is on 30" with just a T-Bar crank in front and shackles in the rear I was in a group of 15 s-10 and blazers and I was one of only 7 that made this bunch of rocks without a tow. I can tell you no one thought my truck was a 2 wheel drive. At full articulation I can get the tires to rub and that is with 1" spacers up front, without that they would never fit without rubbing. One thing no one is mentioning, if you are getting 20+ MPG with your rig I would not change it one bit NOTHING or you will most likely see your mileage drop to where most of rigs sit which is at best 17 and usually less.

[F9K9]

.............What is your opinion on my question above about the BDS 5 inch kit and smallest size tires?........................

You may have to word your question differently because I don't understand it. What are your intentions after the BDS or a SL suspension lift? Even if, it is for a "mall crawler", I don't know of any "active members" that have performed either lift and still contribute here.

That might be a clue for you.

Past members, with those lifts, were constantly commenting on front end component failures. Some BDS and SuperLift lifted members went on to a solid front axle or just dropped off the radar completely.

You're getting 7 yrs (tried and tested) of advice from HenryJ concerning the Crew Cabs. What he tells you has been proven over and again! Many other S-10 forums reference our site when it comes to modifications. ZR2USA.com, TXZR2.com and S10Forum are a few that comes to mind.

You will save yourself a bunch of time, aggravation and money if, you will just accept the recommendations.

If, you want to try something else other than what is recommended, then please document the findings with photos, conditions and a short write up. I welcome new ideas and am sure that your findings could be added to our modification section.

[green02crew]

I personally am able to fit 30" tires with no rub and only a t-bar crank and shackles. I could almost clear 31s with no rub its close. If you want to easily fit 31s, get the shackles, t-bar crank and body lift. It will sit 4" higher or so front and 5" or so higher rear. That is a good amount of lift. Add some spacers for a wider stance and you're better off than a zr2. Much cheaper and easier than a 5-6" lift kit. I would love to follow that route if it weren't for the salt in my area, no way would I get the body lift done.

[04crewvt]

Add some shackles for a wider stance

Spacers is what you meant for widening the stance, Shackles give the rear it's lift.

[vrodracing90]

Hmmmmm. First I thought I did my research but I did not do enough but I had bought and I am sitting on the Rough Country lift right now. Not installed. I checked another site and a guy installed the kit and a month after installing the kit a Rough Country the key broke. Me I drag race Harleys across the country on a circut and build and design custom Harleys. My father used to own a machine shop where we built race engines for drag racers. Just catch everone up to where I am at right now. You know I did not get much sleep last night thinking about this and talked this morning to the guy that aligns my trucks. I am going to run this idea across you..............

I went out and measured from the center of my wheel to the fender it is 18 3/4 inches stock. I have 3.73 gears and no matter what I will have to put new shock on the truck.

I thought since I have the Rough Country kit I would use the upper control arm out of the kit and the shocks. Crank the tortion bar up with the stock keys 2 inches. I did not like the shackels from Rough Country and I would put the keys out of the kit and the shackels on ebay for sale. The shackels in the kit only raise it 1 inch. I found some on ebay that will lift it 2 inches in the rear. That would give me 2 front and rear. I am not really a fan of the 31x10.5x15. It is 30.7-30.9 inches tall depending on A/T or M/T. The 245/75/16 is 9.7 inches wide and 30.5-30.7 depending depending on A/T or M/T so it is a little shorter and not as wide so it will help clearing the fender and about 2-300 thousands shorter and almost a inch narrower. I found some 16x8 rims with 5 inches of back spacking. I think that this might get me close to what I am wanting. What do you all think? If you like the idea what size or how much of a spacer would I need on the wheels? What is your opinion using the Rough Country Upper control arms? Hey I have not built anything yet so now I have a renewed energy to make something work. Like building a custom bike. Thanks everyone for their help.



[/i][/b]

[green02crew]

Haha yes thank you taken care of.

Well that idea doesn't sound too bad, you can give it a shot. How much longer are the shackles the kit comes with? for every 2" longer you get 1" lift. Shocks are a must so thats a good idea. Give the rims a shot and see if it clears.

[HenryJ]

Send the kit back. The upper a-arms are not going to help. They are just there to allow you to crank the t-bars beyond what would normally be alignable.
245/75-16 will not clear.

Give up on a 2" suspension lift.

[green02crew]

9.7 inches wide and 30.5-30.7

I could fit that on mine with the setup I have and have no rub. It would be very close but would fit. All I have are shackles and cranked t-bars. The 1" spacers upfront and 1.5" rear pull it away from the frame enough to clear at full lock. I think there is a good chance but different for every vehicle, the only way to know is to try it.

[Horsehammerr]

Hey Vrod, I cranked my T-bars up to level my ride, which just about bottomed out both adjuster bolts. GOT AN ALIGNMENT. Put 8" x 15" alloys with 3 3/4" back space all around and 275/60/15 non-offroad CopperCobraGTs on. The fronts sit 1 1/2" out of the stock ZR5 flares and would rub the back of the opening when turning. So I did the cut job that is required for SKIDZ flare installation on the fenders and the stock ZR5 flares. PROBLEM SOLVED !! My rears set about 1/4" out of the stock ZR5 flares, so no problem there. I spend most of my time doing the DUKES OF HAZARD run around the Ozarks here, but sometimes I am off the road and get a little aggressive. Thats the only time I rub and it's only at the top of the wheel wells in bottoming out to hard. A little easier on the throttle and I'm good. I have plenty of room for 30x9.5s NO PROBLEM. Very simple NO LIFT stock suspension, just a little T-bar adjustment and no scared cat look. Oh ! did I mention it corners better than I have lack of brain power to run?

[vrodracing90]

Ok. There are alot of good ideas I am heading to my front end guy right now before I do anything and run this past him and then start I will let you know.

[HenryJ]

Keep in mind that the collective here knows more about these trucks than any shop will ever know.
If that shop recommends a 2" suspension lift, see if they will warranty the damaged balljoints and CV boots.