a slightly meatier look

[turkeestalker]

Hey and hello one an all. Ultimate newbie here, trying to get a handle on a few things. Just traded my '98 S-10 for an '04 crew cab. My 8 year old is eternally grateful for the forward facing 'real' back seat, and not having to rely on his older brother for safe passage to and from.
Anywho, I love the truck, but would love it more with some different shoes and a slightly meatier look. As it sits now it is stock, 42k on original Wranglers that are in need of being replaced. Never been too big of a fan of shy-high lifts, and learned early on with a couple of 4X GM's from my youth, that running amuck for the sake of it tends to ding things up. So other than an occassional romp through a field to retrieve a deer or something, I won't be too far off the pavement.....um..... I think.
Your site is a burgeoning wealth of information, and after having been a 'lurker' since I bought the truck last Saturday, I've read enough now that things are getting a little jumbled up in my pea sized brain. So, in simple terms, that I can wrap my head around.......
If I intend to keep the stock rims, preferably no lift (might consider a 2"body if I have to), open to the possibility of spacers, (liking a wider look), what would be my best choice, size wise, that would not create issues of rubbing, etc.?

edited title to be descriptive-HJ

[F9K9]

Hey and hello one an all. Ultimate newbie here, trying to get a handle on a few things. Just traded my '98 S-10 for an '04 crew cab. My 8 year old is eternally grateful for the forward facing 'real' back seat, and not having to rely on his older brother for safe passage to and from.
Anywho, I love the truck, but would love it more with some different shoes and a slightly meatier look. As it sits now it is stock, 42k on original Wranglers that are in need of being replaced. Never been too big of a fan of shy-high lifts, and learned early on with a couple of 4X GM's from my youth, that running amuck for the sake of it tends to ding things up. So other than an occassional romp through a field to retrieve a deer or something, I won't be too far off the pavement.....um..... I think.
Your site is a burgeoning wealth of information, and after having been a 'lurker' since I bought the truck last Saturday, I've read enough now that things are getting a little jumbled up in my pea sized brain. So, in simple terms, that I can wrap my head around.......
If I intend to keep the stock rims, preferably no lift (might consider a 2"body if I have to), open to the possibility of spacers, (liking a wider look), what would be my best choice, size wise, that would not create issues of rubbing, etc.?

Welcome aboard

Your choice is going to be limited to pretty much what you have in the way of sizes unless you can locate a 29/9.50 all terrain style tire. Even a 30/9.50 will rub on inclined turns. Since you have little ones to worry about and if, your tires are not dangerously low on tread, I would jump on shocks as being high on your list of needed modifications. Emergency maneuvering would be high on my list. The stock ones are bad when brand new and it was the first thing I did to mine with under 1K on it's ticker. After that I would look at some narrow thirty inch tires but, you will have to do very minor trimming. I accomplished mine in under 10 minutes with a dremel tool, a little tape and spray can undercoating to prevent rust.

[green02crew]

Some might suggest otherwise but if you get a 2" body lift and wheel spacers you could clear 31x10.5s otherwise if no body lift you could crank the tbs and get shackles along with spacers for 31s. Without spacers I found them too wide and could only clear 30x9.5s

[HenryJ]

I would suggest taking it from soccer mom truck to capable offroad.
2" bodylift and 30x9.50-15 tires.
A couple things you did not mention.
Rear gear ratio and is it a ZR5?

[turkeestalker]

Soccer mom truck......ouch! Alright alright.....you made your point. In all honesty, I know you're right. I would probably be far happier with the overall appearance if I did lift it the minimum, and add more rubber.
So a 2" body lift and 30x9.5 will have no issues. If I could ask, what would spacers do in that situation aside from the obvious aesthetic appeal? I was really having a hard time in one thread determining what to use if I were to use spacers. What width for front and rear would even out the trac, add width to the stance, without alterations? Or are alterations necessary when spacers are used?

It is a ZR5, but I've no idea the ratio of the rear end, haven't checked, but I will.

[turkeestalker]

Have no fear about the shocks...already on the list ahead of the tires, just thinking for now, thanks.

[HenryJ]

Look to the Deciphering the RPO codes thread for how to determine the gear ratio.
The rear is 2.1" narrower than the front according to the specifications listed in the stock information pages on the website.
Any alteration in track width could pose problems for clearance. It is best to put a tire up on the curb and turn to where the tire comes closest to the rear of the front fender. Measure the clearance and subtract the differences you wish to make (reductions in rearspacing, tire width and height,etc.)
ZR5 means you will need to find the thread on raising the step bars after the body lift.

Mark's crew (AZS10Crew) is long gone, but look to it as a fine example of a truck with 30" tires and a 2" bodylift. I don't know what your budget is like, but if you need tires now, you might get away with running the 30" tires for a little while before you install the bodylift.

[turkeestalker]

Pardon my lack of knowledge here HenryJ, but the RPO indicates that the rear Axle gear ratio is 3.42...what does that mean...good or bad? Slated to forever be a 'soccermom' truck, better/worse on fuel economy, etc.?

green02crew...On your suggestion, what size spacers would I use front and rear respectively? Or are you using the same width all around?

[HenryJ]

3.42 is OK. You will get better mileage. You do not want to go too big on the tires though. I would stick with the 30" tires. If you had 3.73 I might lean more toward 31" tires.

If you like different wheels the go with 1" less rearspacing max. and then add 1.25" to the rear.
If you stick with the stock wheels, you may be able to add as much as 1.25" spacers to the front and 3" on the rear. I would probably just add 1.25" to the rear and call it good. Adding spacers to the front may be pushing the rubbing issue.

[turkeestalker]

Alright, this is what I am thinking, please tell me if I am way off base.
I am just not sure that I care to lift the truck, I actually like it as it sits, simply want a little more rubber.
I am considering cranking the tb just a bit, and shackles, to allow 30x9.5's, with 1.5" spacers on the rear, using stock rims.
I'm thinking from what you guys are saying, that it should work fine for everyday 'soccer mom' driving, and add a touch of the aesthetics I am looking for. I'm a little concerned about the cv boot stress mentioned in one thread, due to the tb crank, so will not over do it.
Now....tell me how much of a newbie idiot I'm sounding like, and place bets on how long before I do the 2" body lift? Seriously, am I being foolishly cheap, or does this sound reasonable?

[F9K9]

Naw, you sound like a sane man! You do not need more than 1.25" spacers on the rear if, it bothers you in the first place. I think that I am getting old but, with a minor tb crank you should be okay with 30/9.50s and just never make a turn on an incline!

I am kidding but, each one is different! You need a dremel tool to polish the better half's treasures anyway. Just sneak in a few cutting wheels 10 minutes and you won't face the questions that made me lift mine. "Is that a 4 wheel drive??"

[HenryJ]

Ditto on the 1.25" spacers for the rear. That way if you decide to add a wider stance all around, you can swap them to the front and buy big ones for the rear later.

As an example , mine rubbed with the stock optional 29" tire.

Put a tire up on the curb. Turn to where the corner of the shoulder come closest to the rear of the front fender (there is a pinch weld seam) Take a measurement. How much room do you have?
You need 1/2" clearance minimum for deflection during movement.

Tread design can play a big part. An aggressive tread can set the mood and really change things.

[border man]

I have 30x9.50 BFG ATs, with no lift or TB crank. I'm also using 2" spacers in the rear.

[roadrunner]

On my 01 I am running 235x75x15 BFG AT's. 2" TB crank no rear spacers or lift. Works fine without rub problems. Even on bottom-out turns.

[turkeestalker]

I've been reading to try and gain some knowledge to apply toward what alterations I wish to make if any. Kind of thick headed, so my Ex always told me. While looking, I did find a very good article to help a know-nothing such as myself, to better understand the whole TB concept and doing alterations.

http://www.offroad-tech.com/tech/tb401/

From what I am seeing, the use of different TB keys to lift the truck would still place stress on the front end components as simply cranking things tighter. Yet would still allow the freedom of adjustment when it came to a fornt end alignment. Though finding keys, say 1.5", for a Crew Cab is a little difficult, and there seems to be some mysterious cut off just prior to '04. Wondering what difference there might be from '03 to '04 if any?
If I am reading things right, the keys seem like a better way to go even though they'll cost a buck and a quarter from Daystar.

Another thing I found is that on my truck the stock tires available were a 235/70/15 or a 225/75/15. the Wranglers which I thought were stock based on mileage and wear, are actually 235/75/15. This is what you fellas would call a 29x9.5 isn't it?
they actually do rub a little on the frame in an incline turn, just like my '98 ext. cab did with the same size Michelins on it.
If I were to raise the front an inch or so via new TB keys or TB crank, would this rubbing be eliminated?

Is it obvious that there is a reason that Misery'ans....er....Missourians are considered Mules....or is that stubborn jack-asses? Same difference?

[HenryJ]

Just say no to the keys.
You can already crank the t-bars beyond the ability to set the alignment properly. You can already crank them beyond the range of operation for the ball joints and Cv boots.

I would suggest adjusting to the maximum Z height and calling it good. The stock keys will do that just fine.

[williamcstonejr]

10 minutes and you won't face the questions that made me lift mine. "Is that a 4 wheel drive??" f9k9

The only reason I bought the 4x4 stickers for my truck was that very same question about 50 times. I actually had one guy at work ask "Are you sure" yes he was being serious:

[turkeestalker]

williamcstonejr,
......and you smacked him upside the head .....right?

Brule,
"You can already crank the t-bars beyond the ability to set the alignment properly. You can already crank them beyond the range of operation for the ball joints and Cv boots."

That is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Just cranking them tighter doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. What I wanted to know was if the use of the keys would at least allow a freedom of range, so as to not prohibit adjustment needed with doing a front end alignment. I understand that it will induce the same stresses, on the bars and other components, as simply cranking them.
NOT trying to tick anyone off here.

It all may be a mute point anyway, I found a 2" kit from Rough Country that I am curious if anyone has any experience with, or opinions about. A link to that kit is this:

http://www.roughcountry.com/chevy_4wd_s10.html

I spoke with a tech on the phone about it. He claimed that the CVs would not be bound enough to create a problem if I followed the instructions,lest they would have included and adaptor to address that issue. He also claimed that the ball joint relocation brackets negated the problems with additional stresses and wear etc..
Asked if I could purchase it without the shocks, NOPE, so I'm guessing that the Bilsteins for $240 would just have to wait until the ones included wore out. Who knows, maybe they are decent shocks as well.
Seems that if I were to attempt what I was thinking with a new set of shocks, I would spend the $430 they are asking for this anyway between keys, shackles, etc..
Seems the trimming will prove unavoidable depending on tires used.....pisser.
Honest opinions anyone?

[HenryJ]

... Just cranking them tighter doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. What I wanted to know was if the use of the keys would at least allow a freedom of range, so as to not prohibit adjustment needed with doing a front end alignment. I understand that it will induce the same stresses, on the bars and other components, as simply cranking them.
NOT trying to tick anyone off here.

I am not sure you are listening. You must be really intent on going this direction.
The keys just allow you to turn the bars more than you can with the stock keys. They do not relieve the stress on any thing or increase the range of travel. Just the opposite.

It all may be a mute point anyway, I found a 2" kit from Rough Country that I am curious if anyone has any experience with, or opinions about. A link to that kit is this:

http://www.roughcountry.com/chevy_4wd_s10.html

I spoke with a tech on the phone about it. He claimed that the CVs would not be bound enough to create a problem if I followed the instructions,lest they would have included and adaptor to address that issue. He also claimed that the ball joint relocation brackets negated the problems with additional stresses and wear etc..

Salesman BS. This kit is no different than any other 2" suspension lift. Those arms are to correct the camber. When you crank the bars this far the upper a-arms are not long enough to set camber.

Honest opinions anyone?

Trying to. Do a search for 2" suspension lifts here. There is plenty of information.

I have tried to help. You have been warned as best I can. Go ahead and do as you wish. Forewarned.

[williamcstonejr]

Honest opinions anyone?

You are not listening to someone who knows what they are talking about. You sound like you have made up your mind and are just looking for reassurance that it is a good idea to jump off that bridge without a parachute. From what I have read you are looking for a modest change in the stance of your truck, width and height. Is this wrong?
If this isn’t wrong then I am thinking that you’re looking at a 2" suspension lift for clearance correct? If this is true then think about this, the only clearance you will get for the undercarriage is from your tires. Tire height is what gets the bottom of your truck to clear any annoying obstacles, rocks, logs, mother in-law. Lifting the suspension or the body gives you the room for those larger tires without rubbing issues, or at least help with them. You are saying that you are mostly going to ferry your kids around with the occasional romp in the woods. A 2" suspension will do the same as the 2" body for a lot more money with no real benefit in performance. Hell a 2' body lift would actually be safer for the kids, you will only be lifting the body in the air leaving the frame, engine tranny, so on and so on, lower to the ground giving you a better center of gravity in case of sudden on road maneuvers. Thus reducing the chance of a rollover vs. lifting the entire truck into the air. Put some modestly bigger tires on without trimming or go whole hog on the tires (Add spacers) and do some trimming of the fender wells and you will have a safer more capable, dependable off road truck that would be safer to take the kids in. You will also avoid ANY issues with suspension, ball joint stress ETC.

That is my opinion.

[turkeestalker]

Actually what I thought I had been doing was asking because I don't know, and wish to. My answers have been many, and appreciated, but not always directly answering the question that I asked, or at least not always offering explanation. I had said in the very beginning that I needed answers that I could wrap my head around, thick skulled? Probably, but really I do need things spelled out. Sorry, I'm trying to learn, and never have I been dubbed the sharpest pencil in the box.
It is not the range of travel, or stress on front end components that I am asking about, I've pefaced my question by saying, at least once, that I knew those would remain the same. What I asked is if by using the keys, would an alignment be possible, would there still be adjustment available as opposed to someone who cranked thiers all the way down which from reading, I'm gathering, would make an alignment impossible to do properly. There would not be enough room left to make adjustments, or at least that is the best way that I can understand it.
Hell, I couldn't have honestly told you how the front suspension worked an any car or truck prior to delving into this, still probably couldn't.
I had also noted early on that I did not think that cranking them was really a good idea so that would limit the amount I would if I chose to do so.
If I sound like I've made up my mind that might be because I've never really liked the idea of a body lift. Uneducated assumption would be that jacking the body off the frame is kinda anti-sturdy or sound, so to speak. Another uneducated assumption would be that altering suspension to allow a larger tire, while leaving the body firmly planted on the frame, would seem more sturdy and sound to someone who doesn't know. Again, I DON"T KNOW, and that is why I am asking.
I've been asking the wrong questions I guess.
Unfortunately I am from Missouri, and there is a reference to Missouri mules, the 'show me' state, etc. etc.. If you tell me that something is bad or best, I need to know why, specifically, or I have a hard time accepting just because it is said, I gotta know why. My downfall.
You guys know, and I do not, that is why I came here to ask.
I'll keep reading and try to understand the whats and whys.

Brule,
I've pissed you off, that is obvious, but was not my intention. My appologies.

Thanks to all of you for your help.

[turkeestalker]

By whats and whys I do mean pros and cons of either type of lift, or no lift at all.
I'll figure it out.

[williamcstonejr]

Hey no problems here AT ALL! I was just being playful with the boxing icon, sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. And I may be speaking out of turn, but I do not think Brule is mad at you. He knows these trucks inside and out so he may show some frustration if someone is not getting the big picture he has in his mind. I don’t think any of us could, after reading some of his posts in here I firmly believe he could build an amateur space shuttle in his garage and successfully launch it into space. But I really don’t see him getting red faced about this.

[turkeestalker]

I don't doubt that he could from the sounds of it. Mad or pissed is probably the wrong term, you coined it when you said 'frustration'. No foul, and again my appologies.

[HenryJ]

I am sorry too. You just seem convinced that there is not lift if it is not suspension.
All the 2" kits and keys do the same thing...crank the torsion bars. Superlift, Rancho, Fabtech, BDS, AIM and more. All the same problems. They all move the suspension beyond the operating limits. Some will try to fix problems with upper a-arms, softer boots, new ball joints, ball joint spacers, etc. None solve all the problems.
Too you must consider the harsh ride that will be created when the leverage for the front is reduced with the radius be shortened due to the angle of the lower a-arm. That may be going in way too deep. Suffice it to say it is not a wise way to go. Check other forums for more advice. I think you will find the same opinions.

I know the "ilk" of which you come. I too was of that train of thought.
A suspension lift is preferable in other cases. That is not the case when trying to do a small lift without lowering the suspension components on an IFS suspension.
If you are dead set on a suspension lift, IMO there is no lift less than five inches. If you want to go that far I would suggest going all the way and trade in the IFS for SFA.

I am not sure why you are against a body lift. Take a look under your truck and see what supports the body. 3" diameter rubber bushings. The same support is provided by the addition of the body lift blocks. I will grant you that there is the subject of leverage, but two inches is not enough to be of any concern. Add six and I would worry.
The body lift for these trucks has many advantages besides the "look" and tire clearance. Cost, hood to hat clearance, airspace over the transmission and reduced CG as mentioned above to mention a few.

Old school aluminum blocks, big body lifts, hockey pucks, square tube, soft bolts. Those are the things that gave bodylifts a bad name. A quality kit will offer no problems or safety issues.

You have only three options for lifting these trucks: 2" body lift, 5"-6" suspension lift or SFA.

You did not sound like you wanted to go big. That is why everyone here is recommending the 2" body lift.

If you are just wanting a little and you don't mind a little rubbing, find some small 30" tires that look aggressive and have a round shoulder design. Adjust your torsion bars enough to level the truck and maintain the maximum recommended Z height dimension. (specs on our website stock information page). With your gearing you really don't want to go bigger than 30" or mileage may suffer as well as power.

P.S. The Hotrodder's Garage space program was supposed to be a secret

[killian96ss]

turkeestalker, listen to the advise HenryJ is giving you.

He knows these trucks inside and out and I agree 100% with the advise and recommendations he is giving you.

The 2" Performance Accesories body lift really is the way to go unless you want a big suspension lift, then I would say the Superlift 6" lift would be the way to go.

Steve

[turkeestalker]

That sank in! Many thanks for the explanation, and much appreciation.
Again, I was not trying to 'wrong foot' anything, and I do appologize.
Just an example of how long it might take something to sink in.....um.....I just did connect the dots on the IFS and SFA terms.....no pride in that realization. Probably best to keep some things to myself.

[williamcstonejr]

Probably best to keep some things to myself.

That could be the furthest from the truth, when it comes to modding anyway. Learn from others now so you don’t pay for it later. That’s just my thoughts. Research, research, research. Then make well informed solid decisions on the direction for your truck.

[HenryJ]

IFS= Independent Front Suspension. This incorporates a differential rigidly mounted to the frame. Two shafts to drive the wheels extend from the differential to hubs suspended from sprung arms.

SFA= Solid Front Axle. A single axle assembly with tubes attached to the differential. This axle assembly is suspended by leaf springs, or attached with bars to locate it and sprung with torsion bars or coil springs.

Sometimes we assume too much. I am guilty too. It is hard to judge what someone does and does not understand. I get as much grief from people for treating them as if they know nothing as I do for thinking they understand the whole concept.
Don't ever take anything personally. This is only the internet!

[williamcstonejr]

Hey brule make you mad yet?

[green02crew]

I was in your shoes when I first got my CC. I wanted a better look and more height right off the bat. But the 5" and 6" were too high for me, a body lift I also had heard bad things about till this site. Living where I do and the amount of rust under my truck that would have been a nightmare for me. I went the route of torsion crank and shackles, cheaper, easier but not always the best for wear. Not quite as high as I would like but going higher would be very costly and I don't do enough offroading to warrant that cost. I would still like a body lift for the look and ability to have larger tires but can't justify spending that much money. The 2" lift for me was my first thought as well until this site. It looked good, the price was good, then I saw bad things and went the way I did. I'm happy with the outcome and glad I was steered away.

[turkeestalker]

I can't stand admitting this, but I have to.
I have been using the wrong names here, but that is obvious, I think. The email notifications that I receive list the name as 'Brule Lehman' that the reply is from, or so I was thinking, or not thinking. At this juncture I would say that I owe Mr. Lehman another appology for having even pulled his name into this
MAN, do I know it is better to keep some things to yourself. My hair is not looking very red next to the color of my face now.

[F9K9]

This not meant to be mean, smart a_s nor anything else. I have been in your exact shoes many times with Mr. Lehman. Luckily we don't live close enough to one another or else we would have come to blows several times. The vast majority of the times, I was wrong.

If, you don't believe me then I have several sets of wheel spacers and various other S-10 related suspension parts that I have and will gladly sell you.

Our forum is really decent and tolerant on issues that have been covered every other month if, not more often. Join "Pirate" or a "Heep" forum and ask a question without thoroughly researching the topic. You will be looking for a hole to hide in and believe with all your heart that you are despised more than Osama himself. Luckily I wised up here with Brule's kindness and advice. This was my first exposure to a forum and I was ready to fold up my tent and get out of dodge. I belong to several now!

The best search advice that I have ever found was from NAXJA.org. That's the North American XJAssociation. It works in almost every forum and can even let you google terms consisting of 3 letters/numbers that most forum searches do not recognize. Also, remember that a suspension lift could be called a SL, a body lift as a BL, back spacing as BS and well, I am sure you get my drift there.


GUIDE TO SEARCHING. (Some of the forum software is different but, it has helped me a lot.)

And in case, I have not welcomed you to the forum yet

[turkeestalker]

Thank you, thank all of you.
Your insight and experience is truly appreciated, as much as your tolerance and patience.
I believe it might've been Lincoln that was quoted as saying something to this effect.....or whomever.....

"Sometimes it is better to remain silent, and thought a fool.....than to speak up and remove all doubt."

UM....yeah, think I'll just clam up now for a spell.
Again, thanks to all of you, and especially you Brule....er...Henry J....er.......you get my drift.
So f9k9, about that hole.....um......currently vacant I trust?

[04crewvt]

That's the quote I use in my sig.

Welcome aboard BTW

With shackles and a mild TB lift I was able to run 30x9.5's with no problems in daily driving using 1 inch spacers in the front and 3 inch in the rear. I did find the limits of this setup yesterday see other post but in all honesty I was hauling 800lbs in passengers and cargo and pushing hard just for fun. I do also run a RoadMaster suspension kit and a rear sway bay for stability. I do not feel safe in lifting the body on my truck. Not that there is anything wrong with the body lift itself but I have had one rollover in an SUV and would like to keep the chances to a minimum that it will ever happen again.

[HenryJ]

To address your rollover concerns: It is a good idea to lift 1:2
For every inch you raise the vehicle you need to add two inches to the width.
Tires, wheels, spacers etc. All this helps.

For instance, say you add a 2" body lift and 31x10.5" tires.
Those tires are 1.5" wider than stock. Half of that extends out on both sides. So that is a 1.5" gain. We still need more. Add 1.25" spacers to the front for a total of 2.5" and add to the tires for the 4". I like to match this with wider spacers on the rear. Lets use 3" as I did. That is 6" wider, plus the tires 1.5" for 7.5".

What do we need to make the 1:2? Four inches on each end, right? We exceeded that in the above example. Now lets say you want to use wheels and save some clearance on the front. Using wheels with 1" less rear spacing plus the tires you only get 3.5" for the front with the tires. I have no problem making up the difference on the rear to average the 1:2. We still need 4.5" so the wheels and tires add up to 3.5" add 1" spacers and you end up with 5.5". That meets the ratio we wanted.

It is a bigger advantage to make the increases in track width using the "hard parts" (wheels, spacers). Tires can flex and might be seen as less effective as a tool in the track width.

It can be argued that the tires add another inch to the lift. That is true. In that case the height of the tire negates the gain in width. That is a rational assumption. It is not unreasonable to add wheels or spacers to double the lift installed and ignore the tires, since they take care of themselves. In this case we would need more on the front. 2" spacers or reduction in rearspacing of that amount is not an option for our front. Clearances do not allow it. Make up the difference on the rear. This actually serves to match the track width anyway.

[04crewvt]

Good info Brule! I have the 3inch spacers in the rear 1 inch in the front with the 9.5" tire width on factory ZR5 rims. With the TB crank I gained 1.5 inches in the front and with the shackles I gained 2.5 inches in the rear. This combination feels very stable to me in all but gusty wind conditions which still push this truck around quite a bit. I tend to hit corners pretty aggressively and only occasionally wheel off road further than a farm field or dirt road. I don't want to beat my DD up too much when it's still so new and living in rust belt the effort to lift the body will already be a pain. Fasteners are corroding fairly quickly. As I said I know that the body lift is safe I just don't think there is a real benefit for me even though I do like how they look. If I decide I want to go higher I will look for a ZR2 I can beat to h__l.

[HenryJ]

If I decide I want to go higher I will look for a ZR2 I can beat to h__l.

The crew may out perform the ZR2 in more than a few ways. Check out this thread: Trip Report: CrewCab schools ZR2's!
Out weight bias is a better match. That extra 400 lbs curb weight we have is in the right place. Their rear differential is bigger. That can be a problem too. With the same size tires we have 1" better ground clearance. Parts are easier to find. Initially the crew cab costs less. Add $300 for the ZR2 Package, or add $3000 in aftermarket parts to the crew cab. I think the $3000 in parts makes a truck that exceeds the capabilities of the ZR2.

I am not trying to bash the ZR2. I have a friend who pointed this all out to me. He Bought a Highrider the same time I bought my crew cab. We parked them side by side. I was an inch taller , with 31" tires, and had less money invested. He said "I wish I had bought the crew cab." , " Less money and lots more room inside."
You get bells and whistles that are not options on the ZR2. I could go on, but I better stop as this is getting way off topic.

[04crewvt]

I wish my excess curb weight was in the right place
If and when I get a toy truck it would be as low a cost as I could get and still be safe, dinged up buy a previous owner and it would not feel so bad if I went off road and beat it up some more.I would most likely look for the Blazer version of the ZR2.
I was just pointing out that without the body lift we really can make our trucks look and perform very well and still not look like the soccer moms ride. There are a bunch of crew cabs around here including some ZR5's and without a doubt mine is the toughest looking, all the rest are just as they came off the assemble line.

[HenryJ]

I agree. As simple as a set of tires, alignment and adjustment.

[F9K9]

......................So f9k9, about that hole.....um......currently vacant I trust?.............

It's my hole, I dug it, find your own

........................I would most likely look for the Blazer version of the ZR2............

I think that also opens up another can of worms with wheelbase that I don't fully understand. I have not bothered to search as to the advantages and the disadvantages up until now but, it looks like I need to start.

90% of my trail rides have been strictly heeps, myself included. We have a trail boss (no one else has bothered to ever run for the office) that inspects us prior to each ride and serves as our guide. We also have a gentleman that has forgotten more about off road driving and vehicles than all of the members of our club will ever know. They both are the only spotters that you would ever want. Even in my CC, all I had to do was watch them and listen for the words "driver" or "passenger". The terms are much easier for him and you when understanding whether you needed to go right or left.

It took me a while to notice but, my Cherokee seemed to go through some obstacles with less difficulty than the shorter wheel based TJ, YJ and CJs. Some obstacles they line me up on a steeper or higher rock ledge than strocked Wranglers on 1 ton axles took. I ask a lot of questions with these guys and girls. It is my longer wheel base ,that they often despise, that enables me to do it. Now from what I can tell, the down side on our narrow off camber trails is that I no longer have unscathed rain gutters behind both rear doors. Seeing Avalanche styled Cherokees is now understood.

[killian96ss]

Now that I've owned both I can say I know for sure my ZR2 Blazer will out perform the CC on just about every trail I've ever been on due to the increased turning radius and shorter wheel base that the Blazer has.

I still miss the CC for the bed space and easier rear seat access.

Steve

[turkeestalker]

Our trucks have bed space??
...of course I'm teasing, but I was surprised at how little space there is compared to my '98 extended cab S10, and it seemed mighty small when you started putting things in it.

[williamcstonejr]

I went from this to the S-10 tell me about our bed being small!

[F9K9]

Our trucks have bed space??
...of course I'm teasing, but I was surprised at how little space there is compared to my '98 extended cab S10, and it seemed mighty small when you started putting things in it.

It could get worse 33"s don't work with a hitch in the stock spare location.





And that is stripped of things needed on a trail ride. The bed can barely hold a week's groceries when I go on Sunday mornings. That is for just the wife and I too

[unvth1s]

Welcome aboard

Your choice is going to be limited to pretty much what you have in the way of sizes unless you can locate a 29/9.50 all terrain style tire. Even a 30/9.50 will rub on inclined turns. Since you have little ones to worry about and if, your tires are not dangerously low on tread, I would jump on shocks as being high on your list of needed modifications. Emergency maneuvering would be high on my list. The stock ones are bad when brand new and it was the first thing I did to mine with under 1K on it's ticker. After that I would look at some narrow thirty inch tires but, you will have to do very minor trimming. I accomplished mine in under 10 minutes with a dremel tool, a little tape and spray can undercoating to prevent rust.

There isn't anything like a lil bit of that good ol' tape to help get the job done! lol

[okie s10]

Well I don't mean to hijack this suspension thread, but someone brought up the ZR2. I've had one for a while but several weeks ago the wife mentioned we need some more room. So as of last week I now have an '04 CC. And I'm looking at it saying "man that thing needs help".

Posted this up over at zr2usa.com and didn't get much play out it but I bet you guys have some opinions. They are both sitting side-by-side in the driveway(here's where the thinkin part comes in) and I tell myself, change the fenders, maybe the inners, change a few body mounts, slap that CC body over on the Z chassis and WHAMO!!!!!!!!!! the perfect rig. Not gonna do, just thinkin.

Now back to the suspension thread. That CC, gonna ZR5 it(when I find the stuff) 2" BL, 2" shackles, Tbar crank, 31" tires. All the parts on order as we speak. And I also have an extra Z rearend that I will probably slap up under there, add some wheel spacers and I ought to be set.

So turkeestalker, yep, with a few parts you can make it look good without worry about messing up your frontend.

[HenryJ]

... I tell myself, change the fenders, maybe the inners, change a few body mounts, slap that CC body over on the Z chassis and WHAMO!!!!!!!!!! the perfect rig. Not gonna do, just thinkin.

You have seen the 1999 Baja S-10 Crewcab haven't you?
1999 SEMA Baja Crew Cab



GM did build one RPO ZR2 crew cab.

[williamcstonejr]

[HenryJ]

That was the inspiration for my truck



Somewhere on that path, I just kept going like a snowball out of c0ntrol

[williamcstonejr]

I know I am going to get a bunch of ribbing for this one buuuuuut. I have been cruising the junk yards in the San Fernando Valley looking for crunched ZR2’s. I have the tools and ability to make my own suspension lift; my version would not only drop the IFS but push it out to match the stock ZR2. Take the front and rear axles from the DOR (Dead on arrival) vehicle and mount them to mine. I have all the confidence in the world I could make this work and make it look stock. All I need is the ZR2 donor sitting in the garage to take detailed measurements from and I know I can make this work. This may sound crazy to most of you but I am putting a lot of thought in going this way. It will be a whole bunch of work but I feel the end result would be worth it, to me at least.

[HenryJ]

Grafting another set of mounts to the ZR2 chassis would be easier. All the front half will bolt right up.

The upfitter manualcontains all the specs you need.

Our frame is very close to the same as the excab ZR2 chassis. I think the swap would be easier than you think. The hard part would be to fit ZR2 flares on the Isuzu rear fenders. That may be why the red ZR2 crew cab stretched the frame and added a standard s-series box.

[williamcstonejr]

That’s where some body work may come in. Some bed skins from a stock truck cut to size may work. My F350 CC was hit pretty well on the right rear, I took the insurance money and bought the outer skin and put it on myself. It was not near as hard as I first thought. Drill out the old spot welds pull the old skin off then weld in the new. I learned real fast to turn down the settings on my MIG; it is easy to burn through if you don’t watch it. If I remember right I ended up with $1100 in my pocket instead of taking it in to be done.

[turkeestalker]

Slowly.....Jim raises his head out of the hole he dug for himself, (thank you f9k9 !).....and looks around......seemingly safe, he chooses to post a reply once again.

I've finally decided what I wish to do with my truck to start with, based on the advice, insight, and direction that I've received from all of you, for which I am grateful.

To begin with it will be Bilsteins all around. They seem a bit pricey, but based on the general concensus, I've no doubt I will be pleased with them.

Next will come the wheel spacers. Since at this juncture I am not ready to do a body lift, though I may in the future, I've decided to widen the stance all around. Ordering the 1.25" for the front and 2.5" for the rear from 'Completevalue' on Ebay. With these I believe the aesthetics will appeal to me and their functionality will not change if I wind up doing a 2" BL.

Upon their arrival, when I install them, I will crank the T bars just enough to hopefully level out the truck to my eye. If this is possible while still maintaining the recommended Z height.

Upon completion, it's off to my local tire retailer for an alignment and new set of Michelin LTX M/S in 30x9.5. I know some may hold a bias to my tire selection, but I had some on my, 98 and was very pleased with them. If there is something I should know about them that I don't, please enlighten me.

I realize that there may be slight rubbing issues to address, and I will when I experience them, however is necessary, not excluding doing the BL. Honestly, based on all of your input, I think that I will be fine, keeping in mind that I'll really not be taking any serious off-road excursions. Though Saturday, at my sons request, we drove north up the Mississippi, and properly christened the truck in mud. The boys had never really done anything like that for the sake of it before, and thoroughly enjoyed themselves, me too actually. Must've been asked 20 times on Sunday if we could do it again, by each of them.

I'm still fairly recently divorced, and currently carrying my old mortgage so that my boys did not have to move, along with my current lease, not mentioning the child support. Just buying the truck was a bit of a stretch. So needless to say, money is not plentiful, and this might take me a bit to accomplish, but I will. Then I will probably start looking for skid plates and what not that 4 wheel drive trucks should have.

Thank you all once again for your knowledge and advice. I've not yet taken any photos, and already put rain guards on the windows and a bug deflector on the hood. Had those on my '98 and find them a necessity now. But I will snap a few before and after and post them for you to see. Thanks.

[turkeestalker]

I may kick myself for asking this......but is there something that I am not listening to still? Or maybe missing?

[williamcstonejr]

The boys had never really done anything like that for the sake of it before, and thoroughly enjoyed themselves, me too actually. Must've been asked 20 times on Sunday if we could do it again, by each of them.

Isn’t that what should matter the most anyway? They will remember those days forever!

[turkeestalker]

That they will, and yes .... it does.

[04crewvt]

Sounds like a solid plan to me. I think the 1.25 spacers in the front may have a little more rubbing problems than the 1" I went with but that's hard to tell until you put the tire and spacer combo on. Each vehicle sits just a little different as they come off the assembly line. You might or might not need to do some trimming. If the back is too close to the tires once you get the wheels/spacers on you may need a set of shackles to give a bit more clearance.Good shocks are a must, the dollars you spend will make a whole new driving experience. Get it together and get us some picks. Mud is Fun

[F9K9]

I have to agree with Brian on some rubbing in the front but, otherwise it sounds like a good plan!!!

I am not a fan of "mudding" but, I have done it with my CC. It is great that your young ones love it. It made me think of the two little ones in the photo below. I was never a kid fan but, these two sisters just won me over. It was a welcomed event when I met the two. The most well behaved kids that I have ever met. If, you didn't want to acknowledge them then, you wouldn't even know that they were around.




It does get them out of the house and PS2s

Those two angels changed me.

[HenryJ]

I think you have a good plan. Worst case , you will move the 1.25" spacers to the rear until you decide to lift it. Heck you might just buy them first and try them on the front before you buy the 2.5" for the rear.

I think the combination you have selected will work great after the bodylift . Marks (AZS-10Crew) truck had that combination, only with wheels and spacers.

You might consider trying a trail ride someday. Lots of good stuff out there. There are people who were dead set against such activities that are leading the way now

[F9K9]

..................There are people who were dead set against such activities that are leading the way now

What? Out of Salt? I'll send you some for the shipping cost!

[turkeestalker]

DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim. DO the body lift Jim.

[HenryJ]

"Come to the dark side!" muhaha ...Don't do it!


J/k

Baby steps.

[04crewvt]

[turkeestalker]

So lose the 2.5 and put the 1.25 on the rear and things should work for the time being.
Baby steps.

[HenryJ]

I have no doubt that would work for you. That way you have a chance to install them on the front, just to see.

Sure seems like a win-win.

[turkeestalker]

Was thinking the same thing myself.....remember.....the show me state. Some of us are thick headed enough we gotta see things to understand.

[border man]

You from Miss-e-ry there young'un.

[turkeestalker]

Misery, yes.....er Missouri. But 44 will only seem young later on.