Suspension mount point relocation......

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:00 am

Just had a thought on the stock 4wd stuff.

Anyone see any reason you couldn't move the suspension mount points DOWN about 2-3"??

The thought is that I can make a set of brackets for the front suspension that bolt on to the stock locations. Of course the front diff would be mounted lower as well, and the front shaft checked for length. Seems this would be a simple way to keep the geometry close to stock, and use mostly stock components and still get a decent amount of lift from it.

Here's an example of the last suspension project I was involved with. It replaces the torsion bar setup on a lowered 4wd S-series. We found significant gains in handling, and ride with this coilover setup. It also utilizes stock balljoints, and poly bushings, as well as incorporating a better balljoint angle when loaded.
Coilover setup on display with C5 brakes at Sy/Ty Nationals '04
Suspension installed on truck with AFCO coilovers

I'm just curious if there is a reason this isn't done more? Or perhaps this is how all the lift kits work, I'm new to the lifting scene, so I could just be a rambling idiot at this point.

Moved thread to TLS forum since it's Suspension related. -W

Post by **Walt** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:13 am

I think this his how most lift kits work.... I think.

Maybe one of our superlifted friends can tell us for sure.

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:21 am

i presume thse are the SyTy setups?
i know the setup appears identical, but did anything change from the early models, to the later model Crews, and Ext. cabs, that would prevent it from being used?

would they work with stock ride height 4WD`s?

Jigg · Post by **Jigg** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:27 am

This is how the big lifts work. The brackets drop the mounting points, the diff, sway bar, etc. Then there's a spring over axle kit for the rear with AAL's or shackles to make up the difference.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:10 am

crew cab sonoma wrote:i presume thse are the SyTy setups?
i know the setup appears identical, but did anything change from the early models, to the later model Crews, and Ext. cabs, that would prevent it from being used?

would they work with stock ride height 4WD`s?

You don't want to run those on a 4wd at stock height. The balljoint angle is revised especially for lowered applications. And yes those are the JSManufacturing coilovers for the Syclone/Typhoon application. The sway bar end links have changed on the new style arms, but otherwise are the same.

Sounds like some time with a welder/plasma could net me a cheaper lift than what currently out there....Thanks for the insight fellas.

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:40 am

well, dang. i wonder if they could modify a set with the right ball joint angles, plus sway war hook up?

would the coilovers fit stock control arms/ stock height?

good info, thanks.

Blaze One · Post by **Blaze One** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:02 am

I am a little confused as to what were talking about here

But it is my understanding that the IFS lift kits out there basically drop the suspension components to a new mounting location , as stated already above.

But the idea of a coil spring front IFS 4x4 is a good idea if it creates less weak points , such as BJoint's .
Tacomas operate very well with that design .

Are we also talking about LOWERING a 4x4 ?
I have seen it done at s10forum.com , a guy replace his Torsion Bars with a coil spring setup/control arms like those above , BUT didn't have 4x4 operational .
It allowed him to bag the suspension .

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:10 am

OK to cover a few topics going on here.

1. Lowering a 4x4....Yes we lower the Syclones/Typhoon which are techincally AWD, however they use the same CV shafts and jointsas the standard 4wd stuff so they will work fine on a 4wd application. With that coilover setup you can get 275/40/17's to tuck into the fenders. Low enugh so you can't fit a standard floor jack under the front crossmember

.....Great for performance applications.

2. Using this kit on a standard 4wd.......THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. I'm sure you can find a set of arms floating around if you really want to, but ultimately the balljoint angle is revised for a lowerd application. Using in a stock height or lifted application will result in extreme balljoint angles, and premature failure.

3. IFS lifts.....I think we've got it ironed out now that the IFS lifts simply relocate the front suspension mount points downward about 4-5" and possibly supply new cross members, and such for re-inforcement. The sway bar, and front diff also gets lowerd a comparable amount to compensate for the lift.

I think I got em all covered there.

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:40 am

but how about using the coilovers on STOCK control arms, just to get rid of the torision bar setup? or is the lower coilover mounting sized differently than the stock shocks?

also, do the upper shock mounts have to be reinforced to use coilovers, or are they strong enough, as is?

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:43 pm

the stock shock points i wouldnt think could hold a coil over.

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:59 pm

I'm confused

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:56 am

Confused about what?

I can explain more if you like.....

And yes the stock upper shock mounts hold the coilovers just fine.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:20 pm

the stock mounts are going to hold the truck up? i wouldnt think so you may have to prove me wrong on this.

if anyone is up for the challenge let me know haha

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:59 pm

This all may be moot. I don't think there is enough room for a coil over shock. If it is small enough to clear the upper a-arm , halfshaft and CV, I don't think it would adequitely hold up the truck.

Torsion bars are a pretty good set-up, I guess I don't see any advantage to replacing them with a coil over shock

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:43 pm

torsion bars are fine uncranked but cranked in my last 3 trucks have been nothing but trouble. im leaving mine alone this time and i must say the ride is really nice, i guess i cuoldnt remember with the last trucks being cranked.

Snoman002 · Post by **Snoman002** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:58 pm

bubaloo1983 wrote:torsion bars are fine uncranked but cranked in my last 3 trucks have been nothing but trouble. im leaving mine alone this time and i must say the ride is really nice, i guess i cuoldnt remember with the last trucks being cranked.

Was it the bars that went bad? Or everything else?

If it's the bars that went bad than I can see your argument. If it was other components (ball joints, CV's) then coilovers won't change any of that.

I have seen some pics of 2wd's with coilovers using shock hoops all the way up near the hood, looked sick!

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:22 am

it was ball joints ect that went bad after the cranks. and i actually didnt over do it either. maybe 1 inch of lift on all of them. I just am not a supporter of the t bar crank any more. aswell once the warrnty runs out on my zr2 i will probably just put a 2 inch bpdy lift in it and run 32s and thats it. at least that way im not putting to much stress on the truck at all. and i keep a low center of gravity.

Snoman002 · Post by **Snoman002** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:17 pm

I hear ya on the balljoints. With my bars cranked and the 4" BS rims I burn through a set of balljoints each year.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:01 am

bubaloo1983 wrote:the stock mounts are going to hold the truck up? i wouldnt think so you may have to prove me wrong on this. if anyone is up for the challenge let me know haha

GOt several trucks that have that suspension installed and are driving around. A few with more than 10k miles that way. No signs of cracking or damage to the upper shock mount at this time.

Pics of the coilover setups in varios states of completion

Drove this truck to TN last weekend

HJ is right. With stock control arms coilovers won't clear the CV's, or the upper control arms.

I wouldn't reccomend coilovers for anyone on this board. Unless you intend to lower your truck there are a myriad of other solutions that work ALOT better for a lifted truck.