constant alighnment problems

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:35 pm

hey guys whats up?

im having some problems with my new wheels and was wondering if it was normal. i got an alignment ect about 2 weeks ago when i got the new wheels for my truck, but i went out to my truck today and my front wheels where totally screwed up. they were sitting way side ways. didnt look good at all!

does the lift i have do this to the alignment all the time or is it the new tires? anyone else have this problem with big wheels tires? k custom? i know you are running 35s same as me. i dunno it looked really bad especially for a recent alignment.
anythoughst?

justinlee5 · Post by **justinlee5** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:18 pm

I have the 5" TM lift with just 31's and I often times feel like my steering is alittle unstable. For example if I am driving on a road and hit a little bump while turning it can feel like the wheels are jerking sideways.

I am just adding my comment to this thread cause I always wondered if the lift really screwed up the stability of my truck or I am such a truck novice that I have no clue. Sorry for tag-teaming your thread Justin.

coffeedrnkr · Post by **coffeedrnkr** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:55 pm

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA NOW SOMEBODY KNOWS HOW I FEEL WHEN MY ALIGNMENT GOES OUT EVERY OTHER WEEK!!!!!!!!!!! sorry, but I feel better now.

I also have some insane bumpsteer, I would be concerned for anybody else that drives my truck and doesnt know that it does b/c they would probably wreck. I have learned to correct it while it is happening though so it isnt a problem for me.

I am determined now to do my sas soo hopefully I wont be in this group or misaligned people anymore j/k but a sas is definately being planned to happen by summer.

I dont think there is really anything I can do about it so I just let it be bad, and I have a dd so it isn't terribly important anymore. Oh well.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:56 am

hey no prob you didnt take my thread

but seriously its sooooo bad. and even worse my wheel doesnt return to center any more either. it just stays turned

not cool im taking it to get alighned tommorw and if it goes out again im never gettinga lift in a truck again. it looks cool and all but the problems i have had are just brutal.

justinlee5 · Post by **justinlee5** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:02 am

well I think that the problem for you and I is that this truck is also our daily driver. I just drove from Boston to Washington, DC and the whole time I was white knuckling the steering wheel for fear that the truck would suddenly pull of the road at 80 mph. I have seriously been considering trading my truck in even though I really like it also. I have learned to drive it, but I freak out when my girlfriend drives. It is a problem that I would love to hear from the others with suspension lifts.

jeffc · Post by **jeffc** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:32 am

i've had my superlift on for 2 weeks now and it's great! i've put about 650 miles on the truck and no problems so far....except alittle rubbing. i do have a tiny bit of bump steer but nothing like my 2 jeeps i had before the s-10. i'd like to get a steering stabilizer to see if that tightens up the feel when driving. i know some guys that have put 100k of full size ifs chevys with lifts and say they drive as good as ever. heck i put 65k on my cherokee with 5" of lift....it drove alot different than stock but after while i figured it out and i woundn't have thought twice about driving it across the country. some of the changes just come with the territory of lifted trucks. as far as the alignment changes go that sounds kinda strange....are you talking about mainly a change in camber? i'll keep an eye on mine and let you know if the superlift has any problems like that.

KCustom · Post by **KCustom** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:13 am

I have had no problems with my alignment. The only problems that I have had is with CV boots.....

2bunik · Post by **2bunik** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:05 am

BUMP STEER ? is that when the steering wheel shakes violently until you slow down some.. if not correct me please

2bunik · Post by **2bunik** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:06 am

BUMP STEER ? is that when the steering wheel shakes violently until you slow down some.. if not correct me please

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:11 am

im taking it in today as no one had time yesterday.

my steering wheel shakes like hell right now at high speeds too so god only knows what that is about :S

i dont know but it has kinda convinced me not to get a lift on the next truck i get...which will be a full size sierra crewcab. i love my sonoma and in all honesty it was fine before the lift. best little truck ever so its kinda my fault its screwed up now not the trucks, but hey what can you do. i will have it for another 3 years till shes paid for.

im thinking of doing a bunch of mods to get it kinda riding like stock again if thats possible. im not even sure what to do but im looking into it.

and yeah i freak when my girlfriend drives my truck too.

its really to bad though because the truck looks so sweet lifted but how it drives and shakes ect now just wasnt worth it. i wish i could have stcok safety with lifted looks

wish full thinking i knw lol

thanks for your thoughst guys

cheers

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:25 am

2bunik wrote:BUMP STEER ? is that when the steering wheel shakes violently until you slow down some.. if not correct me please

Bumpsteer Basics and Small Solutions
http://www.steeda.com/PR/Mustang/bumpst ... psteer.htm

Retep · Post by **Retep** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:53 am

I think bump steer is when you hit a bump and get an un-commanded change in steering direction.

KCustom · Post by **KCustom** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:20 am

bubaloo1983 wrote:im taking it in today as no one had time yesterday.

my steering wheel shakes like hell right now at high speeds too so god only knows what that is about :S

i dont know but it has kinda convinced me not to get a lift on the next truck i get...

its really to bad though because the truck looks so sweet lifted but how it drives and shakes ect now just wasnt worth it. i wish i could have stcok safety with lifted looks wish full thinking i knw lol

My truck drives as good or better than stock, no shakeing, no problems at all. I have had it over 90 mph and it rides and drives great. I would check your tires and your front end......

coffeedrnkr · Post by **coffeedrnkr** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:12 am

I know why I have bump steer, it is because I have some insane tie rod angles, but I have learned how to go slow over big bumps and correct it if I have to so it doesnt really bother me. I dont know if they make a drop idler and pitman arm or not, maybe that is why the superlift is a better lift b/c it drops the center section more instead of angling the tie rods.

The only thing that bothers me is that the tires get knocked out of camber very easily.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:02 pm

sounds like the superlift is a fine product kcustom

im glad someone spent so much time designing it to make the quality good.

wish i had a superlift

lol

jeffc · Post by **jeffc** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:37 pm

i do have to say the new steering cross member gives you is a really neat design and i don't think there is anything you could do to it to break it. it drops the steering components down so you have stock angles.

KCustom · Post by **KCustom** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:40 pm

Maybe your next truck.......I would check the tie rod ends as well on your truck. It should not be shaking like that and I know you would love your truck more if it didnt.....

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:19 pm

i will do! thanks guys

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:06 pm

Mine bumpsteers a little. It seems to be holding an alignment. Take your truck to a frame shop, not a tire shop. It cost more for a alignment but it seems to be better. At least thats true for me.

Brad

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:59 pm

whats the difference brad?? f its better i would rather spend the extra cash

jeffc · Post by **jeffc** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:29 am

after you get your alignment take a marker and draw a line straight up and down on the cam bolt (holds upper control arm to the frame) and then you can keep an eye on it and see if the bolt is coming loose and moving causing your alingment to go bad. we marked my cam bolts before doing the lift and put them pointing straight up when putting the truck back together and the camber was right on. the guy at the tire shop said the only thing they had to adjust was tow and then set the steering wheel back to straight. just a thought....it might help you rule out a possible cause of your trouble. oh by the way did you have alingment problems before the 35's?

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:28 pm

thanks for the tip ill give it a try...

well before the 35s i still had some troubles. right from the day i drove it outa the shop that did the lift. so i took it to the dealer and got it aligned ect. stayed that way for a bit then one day i was driving with all my friends and as i was turning the steering wheel just stayed turned it was fricking wierd. i had to move it back to center every turn or it would just stay turned. so i got that fixed too. then again about amonth later the alignment was off again and the steering wheel was like 45 degrees going straight down the highway i had got it done at another shop this tme so i wasnt going to use them again i took it back to ask for a refund or for them to redo it but they wouldnt because they said it wasnt there fault it was the lift and they couldnt help it. so i took it to the dealer again and got it fixed.
but yeah the moment i drove off outa the tire shop it was messed again with those 35s and new wheels. but this tie i can kinda understand because of the new tires ect. but i still think it will have more problems once its fixed so i dunno. yeah theres my story

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:10 pm

I just think a place that does alignments on big trucks and for body shops do a better overall job than tire techs. Who do you want? A guy that has years of experience on a frame rack or some one who just graduated from the tire balancer. Just my 2 cents.

Brad

jeffc · Post by **jeffc** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:04 pm

i'd check everything in the front end for play and try that marker trick to keep an eye on the cam bolts and ask the guy that does the alignment if it looks like anything has been coming loose or moving that shouldn't be. just putting new tires on shouldn't change your alignment. you said the truck always kinda drove funny ever since you got the lift....some of that might just be characteristics of the tm lift....i don't know ...never had one. if i remember correctly tm said max size of 32" tires for that lift so maybe the larger rolling mass of the 35's is magnifying those characteristics. i'm sure the 35's are putting alot more stress on everything in the front end than say even 31's. do you have the stock tires still? you could put them on and try driving the truck for awhile to see if there is really something wrong with the front end or if it's the large tires that keep causing the problems. i know it won't look that cool but if you can drive like that w/o problems or changes in alignment you know whats causing all your trouble. just a few more ideas. just like science class....test one variable at a time.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:07 pm

thats a really good idea! i will try that one day. thanks man you really helped out. and brad thanks goodpoint

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:26 pm

S-10's inherently have bump steer because of the screwed up geometry of it. TM lift keeps the same geometry, hence, still screwed up. But it's livable. But Bubaloo, it sounds like you really got something screwed up and needs immediate attention. Mine returns like a magnet to the center, but then I adjust my caster a bit more to do this even better. Your cast may be way off. Also, if one of your front wheel's caster is way different caster than your other wheel, this will really amplify the bump steer problem. Ideally, you want both wheels to have identical caster. That is, for the wheels to properly return to the center, you want the top of the axis of the wheel to be a bit to the rear of the bottom, that's what causes the wheels to "center". Sounds like one of your wheels, if not both is tilted to the front of the axis. Good luck.

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:32 pm

thanks quik at least i know someone out there with the TM has no problems.

trucks at the shop still ther elooking into a few things

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:59 pm

The bump steer is caused when the outer tie-rods are below or above the centerline in the radius of vertical travel.

Basically what happens is as the suspension is compressed the tie-rod end at the wheel travels upward effectively increasing the overall length and creating a toe-out condition. As you all may know at high speed toe-in helps to maintain centered / straight line performance, but toe-out will make it wander either direction.

The optimum position for the tie-rods would be level at normal operating conditions. This would have things toe-in in during load and unloading of the suspension. That is not very practical when ground clearance is an issue.

Now there could be some improvement for a raised vehicle. I have not examined the Superlift kit, but I assume since it may include new knuckles, that this issue has been addressed through raised mounting points for the outer tie-rods.

I have not seen this addressed for the TrailMaster kit.

I know that the heavier idler arm from a 2500 fullsize can be used as well as the pitman arm. Rumor has it that the use of these will lower the center link 2". If using the two of these does lower the center link, that would be an improvement in the angle and should assist with the reduction of bump steer, not to mention having heavier duty parts.

Might bear looking into?

Here is a CAR QUEST part # for everyone to reference by if you are
interested in this upgrade.

CAR QUEST part # BCH 21420 idler arm
The Truck is a 88-92 Fullsize 1/2 Ton.

For Perfect circle Parts at Autozone:

Pitman Arm - FA1555 - $21.99
Idler Arm, standard susp. - FA1618 - $34.99
Idler Arm, hd susp. - FA1680 - $36.99

This upgrade is best for IFS vehicles running oversized tires and
wheels.

This is a direct bolt on replacement from a stock S10 idler arm.

MOOG parts:
IDLER ARM------------K6483T (1992 Full Size 4X4)
PITMAN ARM-----------K6335 (1992 Full Size 4X4)

Looks like it may not work with the TM : S-10extremist thread

Still might be a good option for the t-bar cranked crowd with no diff. drop bracketry to get in the way.

S-10CREWCAB.NET

constant alighnment problems

constant alighnment problems

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