Going into the dealership in the morning

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:17 am

Well, I'm taking the ZR5 into the dealership in the morning for the following repairs.

1. Overheating (more on this in a second)
2. Driver seat track broken/loose
3. Console lid latch broken
4. Radio buttons almost entirely worn off after 31k miles

I've found that driving the truck in heavy traffic with the A/C on gets the coolant to easily rise to 220º. Of course at that point instead of possibly damaging the motor I turn the A/C off, and let it cool down. It's done it to me three times now, and I have a suspicion it's the stock fan clutch that has broken. I went through 3 on the Xtreme before warranty ran out, and I put an E-Fan on there. I fully hope that this is the last time this truck has to be in the shop for this problem. If it wasn't under warranty I would be replacing the radiator with the higher capacity one listed in the modification page here, as well as a dual fan from an LS1, and most likely a lower temp thermostat.

The other fix's are pretty self explanatory......I tried to take it in this morning, but they said they were way to busy, and would most likely not get to it until tomorrow anyway, so I might as well just drop it off in the morning, since they work on cars with appointments first, and then first come first serve basis.

Sucks having both trucks unavailable at the same time.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:27 am

Watch the Dex closely and don't wait for the warranty to expire before replacing the radiator cap.
Check for air in the system before taking it to the dealer.

Two things contaminate the Dex. Air and Heat. You have done one already. Watch for crystals forming at the air interface and a greasy black stuff in the expansion tank. Those are clues to contamination.

If there are signs, a flush may be in order? Keep in mind that the recommended interval has been changed and it is no longer recommended to go five years.

The stock clutch fan may not lock until 235 degrees. Don't let the stock gauge get you too excited , it tends to read on the high side.
Be prepared for them to say yours is operating normally

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:50 am

Yea I figured all that......Once the truck drops out of warranty I'll be flushing the dex-cool out of there. Switched to water/water-wetter in the Xtreme a few years ago for the summer, and noticed a HUGE improvement. The winter time I still run a 50/50 mix but with the old green stuff, not the Dex.

I'm hoping the dealer doesn't come back and say the clutch fan is working properly. I can't think of any other reason it would overheat in traffic, and not on the expressway. There is obviously enough capacity there, but not enough airflow.....I also put togethor a note to the mechanic I'm going to leave in the truck. I'll copy/paste it below.

note to the mechanic wrote:Issue list for yellow 2004 S10 Crew Cab 4x4 – July 18th, 2006

Overheating;
Truck will overheat when sitting or moving slowly (less than about 35 mph) in traffic with A/C on, or when parked with A/C on. Temperature has seen to exceed 220º while sitting. Once the truck reaches about 35mph the temperature starts to drop back to normal temps (about 200º seems normal on stock guage). It has also been noticed that in the morning on first start the clutch fan sound extremely loud for about 1-2 minutes or until RPM reaches 2500 or greater. Perhaps that is a good place to start looking for problems?

Drivers Seat track;
When moving from a stop, the seat “rocks” slightly towards the back, as if the track is broken or loose. This is mostly noticed on the front driver side corner of the drivers seat, and is also noticed in the rear of the seat.

Radio Buttons worn/Preset Changes;
The seek, and volume buttons, as well as the #1 preset have an abnormal amount of discoloration for a 31k mile truck. Not sure if this is normal or not. Also the radio will randomly change the station. This is only noticeable when preset #2 is set to 105.1…After approximately 5 minutes of listening it will change the station to a random number in the 92-94 range without any user input. Not sure if this is a radio issue, or a radio station issue as the other presets seem to work fine, and #2 only does it when preset to 105.1

Consol lid;
The lid on the center console has a broken latch. The latching mechanism no longer “springs” back open. The lid also requires some side-to-side “wiggling” for it to latch properly every time.

Thank you very much, and if you have any questions please feel free to call me anytime at 502-xxx-xxxx to further discuss the problems.

Michael Dobrick

I'm trying to give the guys there as much info as possible without simply telling them to replace this that or the other thing. Hoping that the easier I make it to diagnose the problem, the happier they are, and the more willing they are to make the changes I want.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:10 am

Everything your saying about overheating is normal on our trucks. The fan clutch is loud on start up and when it locks at high temps. My CC has done this since I bought it.

Any time the temps around here exceed 90* my fan clutch will stay on constantly while driving around town.

You can switch to green coolant & Water Wetter even if your still under warranty. Doing so won't void your warranty.

As you already know, the only cure for the high temps and annoying fan clutch is to switch the e-fan set up and extra capacity radiator.

Steve

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:27 am

I wish the Fan would get loud when it overheats.....Would be nice to know it's actually working instead of just hanging out in there

Ultimately I might have to put the switch to Efans and Extra-capacity radiator on the list for next spring regardless of the milage.....assuming I can hold out through the July/August hot season around here. Supposed to be 97 today with ~90% humidity...Heat index in the 105 range

....and I can't drive in traffic with the A/C on

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:35 am

2kwik4u wrote:I wish the Fan would get loud when it overheats.....Would be nice to know it's actually working instead of just hanging out in there

When mine locks up it is real loud like an airplane or something.

If you can't hear your fan clutch lock up when the temps get that high, then it's possible your clutch is not working properly, well unless you got the stealth clutch option on your CC.

Steve

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:43 am

killian96ss wrote:
2kwik4u wrote:I wish the Fan would get loud when it overheats.....Would be nice to know it's actually working instead of just hanging out in there
When mine locks up it is real loud like an airplane or something. If you can't hear your fan clutch lock up when the temps get that high, then it's possible your clutch is not working properly, well unless you got the stealth clutch option on your CC.

Steve

ROFL....Stealth clutch.....Yea It's locked in the morning when I first start the truck, but after that it won't lock back again.

The one on the Xtreme went twice, one time it spun itself off the front of the motor, and took out the radiator, belt, alternator, hoses, battery cables, and battery.....Dealership ate a $1,800 repair bill on that mishap.

At any rate, at this point all I care about it that is doesn't start to overheat anymore. I don't give a crap if they have to install a flux capacitor powered fan to make it stay cool in traffic. A bone stock truck overheating is unacceptable IMO, Imagine if I lived out west. Doubt it would've even made it this long.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:06 am

Doing some research on the extra-capacity radiator.

Anyone actually purchased one of these yet? If so how much did you pay, and where did you get it?

Proliance has a location here in town, and I'm sure I can start making calls and find it, but I'm curious as to what to expect first.

In other thoughts. Has anyone used the Flex-a-Lite variable speed controller for thier Efan setup? I've been looking at redo'ing hte Xtreme for awhile, and now the crew next spring. Figured now was the time to ask.

daevans315 · Post by **daevans315** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:23 am

2kwik4u wrote:Doing some research on the extra-capacity radiator.

Anyone actually purchased one of these yet? If so how much did you pay, and where did you get it?

I bought one for my 97 S-10 from JagsThatRun.com. I've been running it for several years and roughly 30,000 miles. No problems and it does help with the idling in traffic over heat. I've even dropped down to the ford explorer fan on it (slightly less aggressive, lighter, much quieter and a direct bolt on) with no problems. It’s on the list of To Do's for my crew.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:38 am

2kwik4u wrote:Doing some research on the extra-capacity radiator.

Anyone actually purchased one of these yet? If so how much did you pay, and where did you get it?

Proliance has a location here in town, and I'm sure I can start making calls and find it, but I'm curious as to what to expect first.

In other thoughts. Has anyone used the Flex-a-Lite variable speed controller for thier Efan setup? I've been looking at redo'ing hte Xtreme for awhile, and now the crew next spring. Figured now was the time to ask.

$ 161.85 to the door in London, KY from rockauto.com I've been running one over a year from them but, don't expect the radiator to be your one stop cure.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:14 am

Thanks.....Thats what I needed to read fellas....

And yea I know it's going to need more airflow, along with the radiator, and the lower temp thermostat to get me where I want it to be......All in good time.

In other news, I get to borrow my buddies Syclone to drive around while the "bus" is in the garage

Boost launches here I come

Blackmobile · Post by **Blackmobile** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:45 am

Just wondered what dealer you're using. I'm in the area and use Bob Hook. They've been OK until my last trip with the wife's Monte...

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:11 am

I'll be using Bachman. I too have had problems with Bob Hook over on Bardstown road. Trying to get anything from thier performance parts division out back is a joke, unless you're building a race engine, or have the part number of the piece you want.

Bachman has treated me well thus far. The Xtreme has been there a few times, and this will be the first visit for the ZR5 to go there, but so far I've had good experiences with them.

I will tell you I would run, not walk, away from The Big M on preston. That place is a huge scam factory. They tried to take me for a shade over $5k when I bought the Xtreme, by way of extended warranties, and death/dismemberment insurance and that kinda crap.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:51 am

Everyone cross your fingers......The trucks at the dealership being serviced right now

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:00 am

Well I picked the truck up last night. Here's how it all finished up.

Overheating:
Dealer basically said deal with it. 235º is the point at which they consider the truck to overheat. Until then they think it's "normal". My question was, if thats normal then why doesn't it run that hot all the time. They couldn't answer that, and basically told me until it gets that hot, I'm getting nothing done about it.

Seat Rocking:
Again, I got the "this is normal" routine. They even went so far as to tell me the seats in the new Corvettes have that much rock in them. I politely asked to sit in one to verify, and they didn't think that was appropriate. I then explained that had I bought a $50,000 sports car, and the seats felt like mine I'd be PISSED, and doing more than just "dealing with it"

Radio:
They did agree that the buttons were abnormally worn, and that the presets changing on thier own was an odd problem. They have ordered me another radio, and it should be here in a day or three.

Console latch:
Also said this shouldn't have broken, and have ordered me another one, about the same story as the radio.

SO....Moving forward I can clearly see that the warranty is no good unless there is some catastrophic problems. I'm going to call the GM 1-800 number later this morning, and see what they have to say about it, and see if I can get some resolution on the seat issue. I don't care if I only spent $17k on the truck and not $50k on a Corvette. It shouldn't rock this much.

I also purposely tried to overheat the truck last night, and it wouldn't rise above 210. So either they fixed something, or I wasn't in the right conditions for it to happen. It was sitting still with the A/C on full blast idling. Waiting about 15 minutes, and nothing about 210. Once I turned the motor off the temp went WAY up to near 240-250, so I started the truck back up, and the fan still wasn't locked up, but the temp quickly came back to 210 or so. Perhaps they changed something, perhaps they didn't who knows, but it appears fixed now. Drove around with the A/C on all night last night, and no big deal......Maybe the two times were fluke occurences?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:15 am

Really sounds like they are doing a pretty good job for you. The radio problem could have been dismissed when "unable to duplicate customer complaint" rears its ugly head.

I have a feeling you may run into the heating issue again. Keep in mind that the stock gauge is not a very good indicator of true temperature. They tend to read on the high side. If it is puking coolant to the expansion tank, it is hot. These trucks run right on the edge, that is why I lowered mine.

If you are unhappy with the seat movement, perhaps an upgrade to power seats would cure the issue? I'd watch your local auto recycler for a suitable swap.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:23 am

HenryJ wrote:Really sounds like they are doing a pretty good job for you. The radio problem could have been dismissed when "unable to duplicate customer complaint" rears its ugly head.

If you are unhappy with the seat movement, perhaps an upgrade to power seats would cure the issue? I'd watch your local auto recycler for a suitable swap.

I would have thought that your ZR5 had power seats. It's a simple plug and play swap. Your wiring is already there. I love mine but, have to remember not to use my wife's keyless entry. When it's used my seat ends up being against the steering wheel and no leg room

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:31 am

Maybe I'm wrong and it is the power seats that have this movement?

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:33 am

Already got the power/heated/leather seats.....No memory, but I constantly adjust it anyway.

The dealer was nice and cordial about things, but the two important issues in my opinion were pretty much blown off as if to say "we know our products are crap, but we're OK with that, and you should've known too" type attitude....I would've liked to at least talk with the tech some, or gotten some paperwork on what was really done. As far as I know they dismissed the problem without checking them, and simply ordered new parts, and put me off till later.......Although there were about 2 miles put on the truck.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:08 am

I am not familiar with what might be done to cure problems with the power seat being loose.

For the manual seats there was a problem with the passenger seat rattling. I believe the fix for this was to use a spring to hold tension on the seat.

It may help to know where this slack exists. If it is in the motor/drive unit there may be nothing to be done. Look for play in the mounting points for the drives. Also check the track for play. Perhaps a teflon strip could be added there? Or maybe a spring somewhere to hold tension?

If you can narrow down the problem perhaps we can offer some suggestions, or ammunition for your next visit.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:19 am

Heres the exact problem.

When leaving a stop light, the truck pulls forward, and the seat "tips" slightly to the back. Not a whole lot, however it's enough to notice, and be a nuisance. The movement comes from the front left corner, and feels almost as if the seat isn't bolted down properly in that corner. I've checked the bolts already, and it feels like it's in the track.

Any thoughts?

daevans315 · Post by **daevans315** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:27 am

2kwik4u wrote:

Seat Rocking:
Again, I got the "this is normal" routine. They even went so far as to tell me the seats in the new Corvettes have that much rock in them. I politely asked to sit in one to verify, and they didn't think that was appropriate. I then explained that had I bought a $50,000 sports car, and the seats felt like mine I'd be PISSED, and doing more than just "dealing with it"

I've actually read more than one review of both the C5 & C6 Vetts that stated something to the affect of "Great sports car, to bad it feels like im sitting in a Metro \ Caviler... Yugo.. etc."

In general many of GM's interiors feel a little plastic and cheep to me. But I get over it.

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:01 am

Does it do this at all settings? I am trying to find out if this is a problem with a worn or damaged area in the range of adjustment.

Not having see the mechanism, I would look for linkage problems first. Then issues with gear clearances. Perhaps the pinion or worm gear has an adjustment that can be made to reduce the free play?

In a manual seat adjuster there is a captured rail. Some times you can remove the track assembly and compress the rail to gain a tighter fit. Some tracks use a teflon insert and when worn replacement is necessary.

I really hate to modify the seat mounting as this is a safety issue (remember the VW ejector seats? )

Just some thoughts.

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:04 am

I think it's a track issue as it does it at all adjustments. No matter how far forward or rearward.

I tried messing with the front height/tilt adjustment, and that didn't change it either. So I'm thinking it's not a gear mesh/alignment issue.

I might take it apart one of these days and inspect it to see whats going on in there.