f9k9's tune-up (Internal dist. cap corrosion)

[F9K9]

Split topic and edited title-HJ

Okay, I am getting ready for a road trip in my CC. Is the Niehoff cap and rotor the still the best, HJ?

From what I can determine, you feel that it is

Are you still satisfied with the Taylor wires, part # TAY-74035 from summit?

Still happy with the NDK Irridiums?

[HenryJ]

Okay, I am getting ready for a road trip in my CC. Is the Niehoff cap and rotor the still the best,

IMO, Yes best bang for the buck

Are you still satisfied with the Taylor wires, part # TAY-74035 from summit?

Yes, those are the black ones. Somehow I thought you'd pick the yellow ones

Still happy with the NDK Irridiums?

Never heard of them. My NGK Irridiums are doing great though

[F9K9]

Thanks for the quick response, even if you could not resist

You have thrown down the gauntlet for all future typos

Actually you had with the ammonia routine but, I kept silent

[F9K9]

Well, I finally changed my cap and rotor with under 13K on my CC. I would hate to have waited until 100K

Somehow, I do not think that this normal. Any idea on what would cause this?

[HenryJ]

Wow! That is ugly

Maybe moisture in an ionized atmosphere? Make sure that the vent holes in the distributor housing are clear. They are under the rotor in the bottom of the housing on either side of the cam position sensor. Looking down from the top they are under where the the wires line up.

You will have to blow them out as the hole is not straight through. You can't just poke something through to clear the passage.

Changing that should gain some performance, and smooth things out

[F9K9]

Wow! That is ugly

Maybe moisture in an ionized atmosphere? Make sure that the vent holes in the distributor housing are clear. They are under the rotor in the bottom of the housing on either side of the cam position sensor. Looking down from the top they are under where the the wires line up.

You will have to blow them out as the hole is not straight through. You can't just poke something through to clear the passage.

I'll try and talk the dealership into doing it since I don't have any access to "air" when I take it in for the CD player. I don't think I have the nerve to tighten the distributer again anytime soon.

I lost the old screws when I removed the cap so, couldn't use them like Barch did to run them in and out of the threads. I tried to clean the "loctite" off the new ones the best I could but, couldn't get most of it off. I used a dental pick, fingernail polish remover, a stainless steel bore brush and fire

How did you remove the "loctite" ?

Tightening up the cap was nerve wracking as heck and do not look forward to repeating it anytime soon

[HenryJ]

... I don't have any access to "air" ...

A can of "canned air" , or a long piece of tubing and you supply the air. Either would work enough to tell if they were plugged.

No guts gonna chicken out and let the dealerships tech crack your distributor...maybe that is not such a bad idea

[F9K9]

If you only knew how many times I backed that new screw out and turned it back in

BTW.....the mystery loctite removal hint was..............................?

[HenryJ]

...How did you remove the "loctite" ?

I use the wire wheel on the bench grinder to clean the screws. As for the holes-

If anyone knows of , or can find a thread chaser for these screws , PLEASE let me know!

[F9K9]

Thanks, HJ. Have no way to do that here but, was curious and I suspected that is what you did

Never take that stuff you have for granted

[HenryJ]

Hit the pawn shops for a nice smaller bench grinder. Mine is mounted to a post welded to the center of an old 20" truck wheel.

[F9K9]

Am in a 2 BR, 1 bath in inground home

What room I had as a bachelor is now sucked up into storage for shoes, jewelry and hot scrub suits and lab coats:)

I do get your point but my space is limited and I appreciated all the help

[top_sgt]

ifyou can find a nut the same size as the screw for the cap.....thread the scrwew into the bolt first,,,,,then into the housing....might help get rid of some of the locktite!!!!

[HenryJ]

ifyou can find a nut the same size as the screw ...

Not a chance. Metric coarse threaded self tapping machine screw threads...need I say more?

[F9K9]

Mine is going into my "adopted" dealer tomorrow. I told my service manager that I replaced my cap and rotor and he finished my sentence for me that everything was crusted in white and knew where the problem was.

You members with newer CCs may want to pop that cap and take a "gander"

He knew exactly what the issue was

[HenryJ]

...He knew exactly what the issue was

And it was....

[killian96ss]

f9k9, when you changed your cap & rotor were there any codes set, or a service engine soon light? GM technical service bulletin 03-06-04-041A states that this problem is caused by the distributor vent screens being plugged which leads to high levels of internal corrosion, and can also set a PO300 code which i have right now. My cap and rotor are new, but after a 1000 miles or so I started having the same rough idling problem again.

Steve

[F9K9]

Steve,

I am sorry but, I did not throw any codes but, I have'nt gone 1000 miles yet.

The service manager is the husband of a coworker and seems to be very sincere.

On the phone, I described my corrosion and he actually finished what I was going to say

When I dropped it off yesterday morning he advised me that our problem was nothing compared to the full size trucks. I wish I could help you more but, I am afraid I cannot.

Reed

[killian96ss]

I wish I could help you more but, I am afraid I cannot.

Reed

Thanks anyway for the reply. I'm just getting tired of trying to track down this problem with the PO300 code that I have right now. The dealer can't find anything wrong, yet my truck still idles bad???

Steve

[F9K9]

I wish I could help you more but, I am afraid I cannot.

Reed

Thanks anyway for the reply. I'm just getting tired of trying to track down this problem with the PO300 code that I have right now. The dealer can't find anything wrong, yet my truck still idles bad???

Steve

Well, I know what I would do if it was me but, I think you already know that I am not a cool, calm and collected individual like HJ.

I'd buy some AC Delco plugs, install them myself and dump the crew back in their lap and say "the plugs you told me that was causing my problem have been replaced with your Delcos. The code and the problem is still present! What are you recommending that we try next?"

[F9K9]

If you want, I just put the trash out but, can run out there to get my cap and rotor, send it to you and you can install it on your rig and ask them "what is up with this?"

[HenryJ]

...I'd buy some AC Delco plugs, install them myself and dump the crew back in their lap and say "the plugs you told me that was causing my problem have been replaced with your Delcos. The code and the problem is still present! What are you recommending that we try next?"

If you are a pack rat like me , you still have the old plugs around. Put them in and see if the problem is solved.

My bet is that it is not.

[killian96ss]

I'd buy some AC Delco plugs, install them myself and dump the crew back in their lap and say "the plugs you told me that was causing my problem have been replaced with your Delcos. The code and the problem is still present! What are you recommending that we try next?"

If you are a pack rat like me , you still have the old plugs around. Put them in and see if the problem is solved.

My bet is that it is not.

I still have the stock plugs with about 58k miles on them, or I could get some new Delco's for about $40. I'm almost positive the plugs aren't the problem, but reinstalling the Delco's seems to be the only way to prove them wrong. The thing that really sucks is that I have to pay them $600 for all their diagnostic time even though they haven't fixed the problem. So far they have replaced the TPS, and the injectors per the TSB, and they say there is nothing else wrong, except the NGK's. If they had found another problem then the warranty company would have covered the extra diagnostic time and necessary repairs which would have saved me at least $300. I wonder if something like a stretched timing chain is causing this? I really don't know what else to do.
Steve

[HenryJ]

I'd sure like to take a look.
Any chance you will be driving through here on your way north?
Inside joke..Bennie will understand that one

Pretty sad that you have spent enough to buy the gas to come up and see me though

I'm not saying that I can solve the problem, but I enjoy a challenge.

[killian96ss]

I'd sure like to take a look. I'm not saying that I can solve the problem, but I enjoy a challenge.

If you were a little closer I would definitely take you up on that one. I really don't want this to end in arbitration with GM, because I really like this truck, even though I have now had it in for service 9 times and had at least 30 items replaced or fixed with only 62k miles on the odometer!

Steve

[HenryJ]

I have a nasty idea that it may require undoing all the mods in your sig line. They may blame each as they find them.

[killian96ss]

I have a nasty idea that it may require undoing all the mods in your sig line. They may blame each as they find them.

Yeah I was also thinking the same thing. The dealer was nice enough though to not mention any of my mods to the warranty company. I am going to try changing the plugs, coil, & FIPK, back to stock along with removing the TB spacer, and putting the screen back in the MAF. This should get it back pretty close to stock, although it will consume a full day of my time and all just to prove that my aftermarket parts are not causing the random multiple cylinder misfire that I'm getting right now.

Steve

[F9K9]

...He knew exactly what the issue was

And it was....

Crusted in white corrosion. Sorry, I just caught your question.

[F9K9]

Okay, this will not help Steve but, the TSB that he loacated will help us all

Brule was right on the money when he told me to clean the distributer vents. The TSB goes one step further and tells the technician to REMOVE them!

I think we should do it whenever replace the cap and rotor the first time. I just called the dealer to check on my truck and they had removed my vents and told me moisture was the cause.

I have been guilty of washing my engine 3X now but, I think that the fact it sat on a lot for two years was the real culprit!

I copied the TSB, to assist other members that are concerned, and posted it below. Maybe Brule can copy and paste it to the cap and rotor sticky. I feel a lot more comfortable diving into it now and want to thank Steve for finding it for us.


Poor Engine Performance-Misfire, Rough Idle, Stalls, Engine Cranks but Does Not Run, SES/Check Engine Light On, DTC P0300 Set (Inspect Distributor Ignition(DI) System Components, Replace as Necessary) #03-06-04-041A - (Jan 28, 2005)
Poor Engine Performance - Misfire, Rough Idle, Stalls, Engine Cranks but Does Not Run, Service Engine Soon/Check Engine Light Illuminated, DTC P0300 Set (Inspect Distributor Ignition (DI) System Components and Replace As Necessary)
2001-2003 Chevrolet Astro, Blazer, Express, S-10
2001-2003 GMC Jimmy, Safari, Savana, Sonoma
2001 Oldsmobile Bravada
with 4.3L, 5.0L or 5.7L Gas Engine (VINs W, X, M, R -- RPOs L35, LU3, L30, L31)

This bulletin is being revised to delete a model and add information to subject and inspection of distributor vent screens. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-04-041 (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).

Condition

Some customers may comment on poor engine performance and the Service Engine Soon/Check Engine light being illuminated. Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC P0300 set.
Cause

This condition may be due to high levels of internal corrosion in the distributor, causing misfire, rough idle, stall and Engine Cranks But Does Not Run. This corrosion is attributed to a lack of airflow internal to the cap caused by the vent screens being clogged with debris.

Correction
Remove the vent screens and inspect the internal components of the Distributor Ignition System using the procedure listed below. If the distributor base has to be replaced, the vent screens will also have to be removed on the new distributor. If there is evidence of this internal corrosion, replace the affected component. Refer to the appropriate procedure in the Engine Controls sub-section of the applicable Service Manual.
Important: All of these inspections can be done on-vehicle.
1. 1. Inspect the distributor cap. You may notice a white residue on the cap walls. For higher mileage occurrences, the interior of the cap may have changed to medium brown in color
2. 2. Inspect the distributor rotor. You may notice the presence of black streaks on the plastic surface. More typical evidence would be visible green spots on the copper surface of the rotor segment.
3. 3. Inspect the distributor base. You may notice high levels of surface rust on the distributor shaft or surface contamination on the sensor hold down screws.


4. 4. Inspect the distributor vent screens (1). If the vent screens are present, remove them by using a plastic-handled, long blade awl or pick (2). Insert into the airflow vent screens and pop them out. Refer to the figure for removal procedure. If the vent screens have been removed from the base of the distributor, then check the airflow inlets for being clogged with debris.


Parts Information

Part Number........................Description

10452458.......................Cap, Distributor (V6)
10452457.......................Rotor, Distributor (V6 and V8)
93441559.......................Distributor (V6)
10452459.......................Cap, Distributor (V8)
93441558.......................Distributor (V8)

[jeff024]

cap and rotor finally done the old 1 had a little build up on the contacts but all in all was in good shape for my 04CC having 86000 miles.

[Steve2003]

I know I said no more mods but this is not cosmetic. I've been getting some rough idle and light pinging. Is this the right set up for the tune up?


ACC-120142 Distributor Cap, Socket-Style, Black, Screw-Down, Chevy, 90 Degree V6,

ACC-130141 Distributor Rotor, Heavy Duty, Stainless Steel Contact, GM, V8/V6, Each

NGK-7164 Spark Plug, Iridium, Tapered Seat, 14mm Thread, .708 in. Reach, Projected Tip, Resistor, Each

TAY-74035 Spark Plug Wires, Spiro-Pro, 8mm, Black, 90/180 Degree Boots, Chevy/GMC/Oldsmobile/Isuzu, 4.3L, V6, Set


Steve

[HenryJ]

... Is this the right set up for the tune up?
ACC-120142 Distributor Cap...ACC-130141 Distributor Rotor...NGK-7164 Spark Plug...TAY-74035 Spark Plug Wires...

The list looks real good. I don't have experience with the Accel cap and rotor.
If you can purchase the Neihoff cap and rotor locally you will save some money and still get great quality parts. Niehoff part #DR58K rotor $10.99 , DR79W cap $29.99 total: $40.98

If the plan is to order it all from Summit. Your list should do nicely

[Steve2003]

If the plan is to order it all from Summit. Your list should do nicely

That is the plan.

Thanks Steve

[04crewvt]

My truck was starting hard so I figured it was time for a new set of plug wires,cap and rotor. I went with Borg Warner select for all. My cap showed definite signs of arcing with a little corrosion. I carefully removed the distributor vent screens and cleaned off all the locktite on the new hardware and was able to install the cap and rotor with no problems. Plug wires were another story I don't think they could have made it any harder to get the wires off the plugs or out of the looms if they had tried. I am glad I did not try to change the plugs or I never would have gotten done. I ended up with more cuts and scratches on me from this job than when I tried to wash my cat in a 5 gallon bucket.

[F9K9]

The looms are the Devil in disguise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The plugs are actually a cake walk compared to what you have already done Invest in some $16 mechanix gloves from wallworld. I think they come in XXXXXXXXL

[04crewvt]

On my 95 blazer this was much easier and even then I had to remove the wheels to get the plugs out and the #3 plug was nearly impossible to remove due to steering shaft in the way. I will have to get a set of plug wire pliers for next time getting the wires off the plugs was nearly impossible.

[F9K9]

I have 2 of the pliers. One's a cheap one (worked like a cheap one) and the other I spent more money on (worked like a cheap one)

Get this one!

[rlrnr53]

Last Monday, I went out to go to work, and tried for 15 min to get the crew to start. It cranked fine, but would not hit until I let of the key, and it seemed like it was trying to hit. After a few tries, I thought tha I had the dreaded fuel pump failure until I got out of the truck and smelled a strong smell of gas. Aftr checking a few things, I decided to check the cap and rotor. When I git the cap off, there was corrosion built up on every terminal amd the rotor as well.the cap and rotor were installed in June and probablydon' have more than 2500 miles on them. Vents were cleaned when the cap was installed. A new cap and rotor and problem solved. Don't quite understand why the brass contact corroded so quickly.

[F9K9]

...........Don't quite understand why the brass contact corroded so quickly.

Research the "FM theory" here