Diff and Tranny Synthetic revisited

Doogy · Post by **Doogy** » Mon May 12, 2003 11:14 am

I have to drop my diff oil this week and am a true believer in the properties of synthetic oil. The dealer said that synthetic is about $30 bucks CDN per litre ( approx a quart). and it will take about 6-1/2 litres to do both diffs. That is approx. 400% more than conventional oil. My question is has anyone gone with synth. and what do you recommend. It seemed to be an excessive difference when synthetic motor oil is about 2 times as much. Just want a second opionion and to weight the cost benefit.

Also on a side note is anyone running synthetic ATF?

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Mon May 12, 2003 11:37 am

well I've ran both, ... the tranny shifts smoother and quieter,.. and ran the rear differentials with synthetic too. I believe synthetics (full) is just a better lubricant and worth the extra protection. Sort of coats the metals, and you get less friction. If you plan on keeping your ride for a while, it's preventative med's.

I'm a firm believer in them, for the entire motor and drivetrain.

good luck

Steven

TNC · Post by **TNC** » Mon May 12, 2003 8:18 pm

Good question... I was getting ready to ask the same thing... I am going to fill the diff's with synthetic... I think like Steven said it a good preventive medicine...any ideas on where to find synthetic in "bulk" (larger than 1 quart bottles)... regular 80w 90 no prob, but synthetic???

Doogy · Post by **Doogy** » Tue May 13, 2003 9:02 am

I have spoken with the dealer here and the parts guy said it was 75W90 and gave me a GM part number of 10953455. This may be slightly lighter oil than what they supply south of the border. I am only concerned about using an oil that meets or exceeds the GM specifications in order to not void my drivetrain warranty. Does anyone know what standards I should be aware of? I am with you Steven. I love my truck and plan on keeping it for a long period of time. It probably will by Mrs. Doogy's ride after it is paid for. Only 58 easy payments and it's all mine..........HA HA HA!

What Kind of ATF are you using Steven?

CHeers

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 13, 2003 10:27 am

I really can't remember what brand I bought, but it was the 75w90 and I want to say it was mobil full synthetic gear oil., but not positive. Sorry,... but any full synthetic oil will meet or exceed regular oils. My 03 Silverado has it already factory installed in the rear diff's. Now all I need to find is a chrome diff cover....

Good luck

Steven

QnsRyche · Post by **QnsRyche** » Tue May 13, 2003 10:46 am

yea im thinking about doing it myself... since im really pushing my truck w/trailer

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Tue May 13, 2003 11:04 am

QnsRyche wrote:yea im thinking about doing it myself... since im really pushing my truck w/trailer

what about trailer brakes?

QnsRyche · Post by **QnsRyche** » Wed May 14, 2003 9:31 am

what about it? it has them

Doogy · Post by **Doogy** » Wed May 14, 2003 9:50 am

I found a local tranny shop that said they would do both pumpkins for about $160. They use Amsoil synthetic. It is a hell of alot better than $300 the dealer charges, but I am still concerned about warranty issues. What other manufacturers are there that someone else on the forum is using??

The service guy at the tranny shop said that GM 4X4 setups, depending on the system, did not recommend using synthetic in the transfer case. Has anyone else heard anything along those lines?

Geeeeeze, It seems like this stuff is liquid gold. You get the right combination of magic sytnthetic elixir and your truck might run forever!!

But screw up and you may be in a big pile of sheep sh@# when it may void your warranty..............decissions, decissions.

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Wed May 14, 2003 10:23 am

Doogy wrote:I found a local tranny shop that said they would do both pumpkins for about $160. They use Amsoil synthetic. It is a h### of alot better than $300 the dealer charges, but I am still concerned about warranty issues. What other manufacturers are there that someone else on the forum is using??

The service guy at the tranny shop said that GM 4X4 setups, depending on the system, did not recommend using synthetic in the transfer case. Has anyone else heard anything along those lines?

Geeeeeze, It seems like this stuff is liquid gold. You get the right combination of magic sytnthetic elixir and your truck might run forever!! But screw up and you may be in a big pile of sheep sh@# when it may void your warranty..............decissions, decissions.

GM installs from the factory, Syn in the diff on fullsize trucks(check the sticker of one and it's listed there too). As long as the oil you are using is the same or better than recommended, it does not matter if it's syn or regular stock.

I've put Mobil1 oil in my Isuzu since the first oil change and I've not had any oil loss to date. Others owners have complained about 1 quart every 1-3k miles which is considered normal(to who I'm not sure). I don't know if it's related or not, but I'm considering changing to Mobil1 for the Crew as well.

I'm only planing on used Syn. for the engine oils. everything else I'm staying with regular oils.

Cheers,

Con

WFRager · Post by **WFRager** » Wed May 14, 2003 7:30 pm

I thought the new GM 75/90 was synthetic?

anybody remember when HP TV changed the new Z-28 to all synthetic (engine, tranny, rear) and gained 10rwhp on the dyno? They used Royal Purple.

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:04 pm

WFRager wrote:I thought the new GM 75/90 was synthetic?

anybody remember when HP TV changed the new Z-28 to all synthetic (engine, tranny, rear) and gained 10rwhp on the dyno? They used Royal Purple.

nope, but thats cool. i didnt realize that

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:35 pm

Awwww, as long as it's slippery, it'll work.

Doogy · Post by **Doogy** » Thu May 15, 2003 2:11 pm

Amsoil claims its synthetic oil will make a noticeable difference in you gas mileage. I am sure not a huge difference but who know what a little friction reduction would do.

WR Ranger, The GM part number I previously provide is for GM's synthetic diff fluid but I am not sure if that is what they provide from factory.........I doubt it.

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu May 15, 2003 3:40 pm

Doogy wrote:The GM part number I previously provide is for GM's synthetic diff fluid but I am not sure if that is what they provide from factory.........I doubt it.

The factory lubricant used , for 2001, is GM part # 1052271

SAE 80W-90 Petroleum oil (gear oil)-CAS 64742-65-0

The propaganda:

"GM AXLE LUBRICANT exceeds API GL-4

requirements and has been formulated

specifically for use in certian GM axles as

specified. Not all products labeled GL-4 will

provide satisfactory service.

*Excellent axle durability

*Compatible with limited slip friction modifiers

*Compatable with seals/elastomers"

Brad · Post by **Brad** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:25 pm

Two words. Royal Purple. Got it in engine and both diffs. Good stuff. What about transfer case?

Brad

ExMoparMan · Post by **ExMoparMan** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:09 am

Okay here is my question, Does the Mobil 1 Syn oil need friction modifier added to it or not. GM told me the new gear lube from them is full synthetic and you dont need to add anything. But they cant tell me if the additive is already in the synthetic oil or not. As HenryJ shows GM says thier oil is special for specific GM rear ends, will Mobil 1 work okay? I am wanting to change to Mobil 1 but have been hesitant without knowing #1 if it will void the warrenty #2 not cause wear or effect the operation of the rear end parts.

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 3:46 pm

ExMoparMan wrote:I am wanting to change to Mobil 1 but have been hesitant without knowing #1 if it will void the warrenty #2 not cause wear or effect the operation of the rear end parts.

I am unfamiliar with Mobil 1, but if it meets or exceeds the API GL-4 spec. I don't see a problem. To be safe, since service departments tend to vary, I'd call a couple shops that are close (where you would go for warranty service) and ask them. Document the person to whom you spoke and date. That should cover yourself

As for the effects. I can't see how it would cause harm if it meets the requirements , but it may behave differently. You can be the "Guinea pig"

Conman · Post by **Conman** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:23 pm

HenryJ wrote:
ExMoparMan wrote:I am wanting to change to Mobil 1 but have been hesitant without knowing #1 if it will void the warrenty #2 not cause wear or effect the operation of the rear end parts.
I am unfamiliar with Mobil 1, but if it meets or exceeds the API GL-4 spec. I don't see a problem. To be safe, since service departments tend to vary, I'd call a couple shops that are close (where you would go for warranty service) and ask them. Document the person to whom you spoke and date. That should cover yourself

As for the effects. I can't see how it would cause harm if it meets the requirements , but it may behave differently. You can be the "Guinea pig"

Mobil1 pretty much exceeds all ratings. My Isuzu/Chevy dealers installs it in all vehicles that anyone ask for it. BTW, I noticed my dealer put in 5w30 weight oil in my Crew the other day(atleast my receipt says it). Right now, my Crew gets regular oil, and my Isuzu gets Mobil1. The Crew at this point seems to run fine with the regular stuff so I'm not changing yet to Mobil1.

Cheers,

con

ExMoparMan · Post by **ExMoparMan** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:11 am

Okay I will see about trying it this weekend. BTW I had asked when I first joind the board about the front diff and if it had a drain or not, I was looking at mine and there is a drain plug in a drilled passage which makes it a real breeze to drain with out using a suction gun

Dragonmaster · Post by **Dragonmaster** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 7:42 pm

The gm gear oil does not have friction modifiers in it and you shouldn't put friction modifier (limitid slip addicitive) in your diffs. The g80 locker is designed to work without it. As far as synthetic goes replace every fluid youhave with it except your coolant, replace it with green not dex.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:35 pm

Have done "some" online research and searches here about "synthetic" lubricants. I would like to go totally synthetic. I am already running Mobil 1 as motor oil and "made" my dealer replace my rear end fluid with synthetic at 3,000 miles. He told me the 3K service was recommended not mandatory but, let's not go there

What brands and weights for the tranny and transaxle should I look for? I am having problems finding synthetics in SE KY for other than motor oil.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:41 pm

f9k9 wrote:What brands and weights for the tranny and transaxle should I look for? I am having problems finding synthetics in SE KY for other than motor oil.

Summit carries Red Line & Royal Purple. Both are good brands. Amsoil is another if you can find a distributor. Dexron III for the tranny and transfer case, 80W/90 front and rear diff. I am using Mobile 1 syn. oil for the engine, Redline Heavy Shockproof gear oil in front & rear diffs, & Redline High Temp ATF in the transfer case. The Heavy Shockproof gear oil I run is way overkill, but I was told by Red Line that it would work fine for my application. I think they have a 75W90NS that is closer to the stock rating. I run regular ATF in my tranny because of several tranny failures in other cars I've had directly related to using synthetic ATF.

Some like syn. ATF, but I personally think trannnies weren't designed for fluid that slippery.

Steve

AZS10Crew · Post by **AZS10Crew** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:21 am

I've heard the same things about synthetic ATF through the F-Body message boards I used to be on. Stick with the conventional stuff for your tranny.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:35 am

AZS10Crew wrote:I've heard the same things about synthetic ATF through the F-Body message boards I used to be on. Stick with the conventional stuff for your tranny.

Gotcha and my thanks to HJ or Jim for readily putting my post where it belonged

I have got to be the worst in performing searches of all the members in the dorum

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:07 am

killian96ss wrote:
f9k9 wrote:What brands and weights for the tranny and transaxle should I look for? I am having problems finding synthetics in SE KY for other than motor oil.
Amsoil is another if you can find a distributor.
Steve

I am an AMSOIL Dealer (Account Direct), and if anyone has any questions about product application Etc. please just let me know. Also I am fairly certain that I have offered (posted) forum members wholesale product pricing.

I am currently running AMSOIL everywhere in my CC. Eng, Trans, Diff's. One important thing to understand about Synthetic oils and what your are actually buying. A Group III oil is PETROLEUM Oil that is allowed by law to be called "FULL Synthetic". Group IV oils (AMSOIL) are not Petroleum based. They are "Man Made" oils. Most of what you see on the self are Group III oils. Mobil 1 even has Group II or III in it. It is not a full Group IV product. Mobil 1 is a pretty good product I just hate the fact that they have been robbing their customers for years with the 3months/3000 mentality here in the U.S. While endorsing extended drains overseas.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:44 am

Ken wrote:Mobil 1 is a pretty good product I just hate the fact that they have been robbing their customers for years with the 3months/3000 mentality here in the U.S. While endorsing extended drains overseas.

So what do you think of their new 15k mile oil? I remember years ago that an old Amsoil dealer here in Napa told me that they made a motor oil that could go that long before a change.

What do you think? Is this true? I was also wondering if Redline and Royal Purple are group IV Synthetics? What kind of pricing do you offer on Amsoil products? Sorry for so many ?'s.

Steve

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:31 am

So what do you think of their new 15k mile oil? I remember years ago that an old Amsoil dealer here in Napa told me that they made a motor oil that could go that long before a change. What do you think? Is this true? I was also wondering if Redline and Royal Purple are group IV Synthetics? What kind of pricing do you offer on Amsoil products? Sorry for so many ?'s.

Steve

I beleive that the New Mobil1 15,000 mile product is a Full Group IV, I'm fairly sure that the New 5,000 and 7,500 mile oils are Group III.

AMSOIL has products that are rated for 1 year/25,000 miles as well as a 1 year / 35,000 miles. Using their filters and changing the filter every 6 months or 12,500 miles. I have run the 1 year / 25,000 mile product for 1 year and had 18,000 miles on it. (With 1 filter change) no problems at all. This was in a 1996 chevy Caprice with 5.7 with 85k + miles on it. I am running the Series 2000 0w-30 in the CC and will go 1 Year on that as well.

Red Line and R.P. top of the line products are Group IV. They do not support any extended drain intervals. RP also uses molybdenum disulfide "Moly" in their product. Moly is a good lubricant but it is also a solid and can be removed with good filtration.

Wholesale pricing is roughly 20-25% off retail. AMSOIL offers a Preferred Customer option which allows people to buy at Wholesale Price. It cost 20.00 annually to do that, I just offer to order it at Wholesale prices for Forum Members and it saves them the $20.00

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:14 pm

Ken wrote:AMSOIL has products that are rated for 1 year/25,000 miles as well as a 1 year / 35,000 miles. Using their filters and changing the filter every 6 months or 12,500 miles.

These mileage #'s are amazing! Do you have to use Amsoil filters, or would the use of K&N or other oil filters be ok? What is the micron filtering rating for the Amsoil filters? Is there any way of getting an Amsoil catalog? I would pay for one if neccessary. Thanks for the info.

Steve

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:35 pm

killian96ss wrote:
Ken wrote:AMSOIL has products that are rated for 1 year/25,000 miles as well as a 1 year / 35,000 miles. Using their filters and changing the filter every 6 months or 12,500 miles.
These mileage #'s are amazing! Do you have to use Amsoil filters, or would the use of K&N or other oil filters be ok? What is the micron filtering rating for the Amsoil filters? Is there any way of getting an Amsoil catalog? I would pay for one if neccessary. Thanks for the info.

Steve

Here is a copy of a prior post about oil filters, AMSOIL filters are rated at 10 micron. Yes in order to have AMSOIL warranty / Guaranty the oil for those mileage ratings you have to use their filters.

Email me your mailing address and I will send some info to you.

Ken@a-zoil.com

Ken wrote:
Jim wrote:An interesting oil filter study
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

That report has some interesting information but looks a little dated "last updated 05/25/99"

Here are some more resent test results on the SAE HS 806 test

TIME WEIGHTED EFFICIENCY

WIX PRO-TEC 101= 69.3 %

AC PF-2 = 75.89 %

FRAM DEFENSE DL5851= 80.15 %

FRAM PH8A = 82.03 %

WIX 51515 = 83.96 %

HARD DRIVER HD-01 = 85.87 %

PUROLATOR L30001 = 86.00 %

PURE ONE PL3001 = 91.56 %

AMSOIL SDF-15 = 94.23 %

CAPACITY IN GRAMS

WIX PRO-TEC 101 = 6.38

FRAM PH8A = 8.17

FRAM DEFENSE DL5851 = 11.21

PUROLATOR L30001 = 11.42

PURE ONE PL3001 = 11.64

AC PF-2 = 13.26

WIX 51515 = 13.46

HARD DRIVER HD-01 = 16.95

AMSOIL SDF-15 = 18.19

The HS 806 test reviews the ability of a filter to remove a known contaminate from the fluid stream over a period of time. Results are reported as the percent of contaminant by (weight) removed over a period of time (Time Weighted Efficiency). Capacity (life) is also determined by noting the amount of contaminant required to increase the resistance across the media a given degree. Capacity is reported in grams of contaminant (Capacity in Grams).

Don't confuse the SAE HS 806 test as rating on contaminant size. It has nothing to do with "mircon" rating that is a different test. The SAE J1858 test is used to rate the "mircon" of a filter.