Steering column shaft gone bad

Socaldave · Post by **Socaldave** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:51 pm

Well I had started to notice some play in my steering wheel and a bit of a knock in the steering wheel when going over uneven terrain. Also, while at a stop and turning the steering wheel back and forth quickly about 3-4 inches in either direction, I was getting a knocking sound/sensation felt in the steering wheel. So it was off to the dealer...........

Turns out that they had to replace the upper and lower steering column shafts. I saw a blow up of the column at the parts dept. and the column is 2 pieces. Then there is still the coupler connecting it to the steering box. The mechanic said it was a hell of a job. Had to completely remove the entire steering column assembly from the interior. Also said it was very difficult to get to the coupler at the steering box. It is very tight down there. Took them 2 days to diagnose and fix.

The steering is now tight again. I had forgot how tight it should be....

Anyone else have this problem?

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:15 pm

I think I may have this problem too. There seems to be a small amount of play in the wheel before the steering box.
I will ask the same question Anybody else notice this on there's

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:39 pm

Mine has loosened up also. I do know that the idler arm is shot though, as I can actually move it up and down about 1/8". I suspect there is something else wrong, like the steering coupler (rag joint) and maybe the column itself. I'm still under warranty until 100K so I'm making a good list of problems before I take it in again.

Steve

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:45 pm

killian96ss wrote:Mine has loosened up also. I do know that the idler arm is shot though, as I can actually move it up and down about 1/8". I suspect there is something else wrong, like the steering coupler (rag joint) and maybe the column itself. I'm still under warranty until 100K so I'm making a good list of problems before I take it in again.

Steve

Mine is under warranty for another 20,000 miles or I would think about putting a blazer column in with a floor shifter.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:59 pm

Jim wrote:Mine is under warranty for another 20,000 miles or I would think about putting a blazer column in with a floor shifter.

A floor shifter would indeed be a cool mod. I have always hated column shifters. I wish the Crew Cabs also had a manual 5spd. option with the 4x4 system. I have seen regular S10's with a 4.3L, 4 wheel drive, and a 5spd. These do seem to be rare though, as I have only seen 2 like this.

Steve

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:41 am

Mine seems to be loose at this coupler.

It is inside the cab at the base of the column.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:14 am

I've replaced the stock steering shaft on my 96 SS with a custom made piece by Borgeson. The new shaft has needle bearing u-joints at each end instead of the crappy rubber couplers. The steering is sooo much better and tighter on my car, and I've been thinking about doing the same on the Crew. The cost is about $200-$250 shipped.

Not cheap, but really nice parts. Performance Accessories doesn't really mention anything in the 2" BL kit about the additional angle placed on the upper and lower rubber couplers in the steering shaft, so most people assume that everything will be ok with the steering shaft after the lift. The couplers can handle the extra angle, but will not last as long, and will place additional stress on the upper internal column parts. I still have warranty, so I'm going to let the dealer try and fix it, but if they are smart enough, they could refuse to fix the steering shaft, because I have a body lift which can void the warranty on these parts. I would like to do this mod soon, but if the dealer will replace these parts every year or two then that will save me some money for other mods.

Here is a link and a picture of what they look like. The picture is of a dodge shaft, but the Chevy setup is almost identical. http://www.borgeson.com/TruckProductCustom.htm

Steve

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:56 pm

My Crew Cab goes in Tuesday for a diagnosis. If it requires ordering parts I may take it back at a later date for the repair. The dealer is 2 miles from my house.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:02 pm

Hey, Borgeson makes sockets and tools too.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:28 am

I noticed today the steering is making gear-cog like sounds when turning the wheel lock to lock. I suspected they attempted to fix the play in my column with the box adjustment & got it to tight, after looking at the adjustment nut, yep they were on it. Now when I take it in tomorrow they have more to fix.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:22 am

Jim wrote:I noticed today the steering is making gear-cog like sounds when turning the wheel lock to lock. I suspected they attempted to fix the play in my column with the box adjustment & got it to tight, after looking at the adjustment nut, yep they were on it. Now when I take it in tomorrow they have more to fix.

Can you tell how much they turned in the middle adjuster screw on the gear box? Do your wheels still return to center just as easy as before? This adjustment is ok as long as you don't put any preload on the sector gear. I like to back it off 1/4 turn after a slight resistance is felt on the adjuster screw. My steering is still loose even after being to the dealer.

They did replace my idler arm, but did nothing to my steering shaft.

Idiots

Just as I suspected, they refused to fix anything on the shaft because of the body lift.

I will be looking into the Borgeson shaft mod very soon.

Steve

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:41 am

I thought I posted that they were ordering both upper & lower intermediate shafts because they arn't sure which one is bad.
Must be old age catching up with me.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:46 pm

All fixed nice & tight. The problem was as I diagnosed it was the coupler at the top of the intermediate shaft. Seems to be a first class operation...my dealer. They said it is a very rare occurence to have that much play in the shaft.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:32 pm

Jim wrote:They said it is a very rare occurence to have that much play in the shaft.

Glad to hear they fixed it right.

I still have 4-5" of play in my wheel before my tires even start to move.

My dealer said that my steering felt ok??

4-5" is not ok to me, especially since when I first got the truck it only had 1-2" of play.

I still wonder if the BL helped accelerate this problem.

Steve

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:30 pm

killian96ss wrote:
Jim wrote:They said it is a very rare occurence to have that much play in the shaft.
Glad to hear they fixed it right. I still have 4-5" of play in my wheel before my tires even start to move. My dealer said that my steering felt ok?? 4-5" is not ok to me, especially since when I first got the truck it only had 1-2" of play. I still wonder if the BL helped accelerate this problem.

Steve

Mine had 1/4" of play, my son's 98,000 mile S-10 has no play at all that's one of the things that prompted me to have mine looked at.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:21 pm

Jim wrote:Mine had 1/4" of play, my son's 98,000 mile S-10 has no play at all that's one of the things that prompted me to have mine looked at.

1/4"

So my 4-5" of play @ 49k miles must be really bad then.

How could my dealer, umm former dealer possibly think this is ok?

I'm sure on my truck that both the upper and lower steering joints are toast.

Jim, do you also have a BL on your CC?

Steve

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:36 pm

killian96ss wrote:
Jim wrote:Mine had 1/4" of play, my son's 98,000 mile S-10 has no play at all that's one of the things that prompted me to have mine looked at.
1/4" So my 4-5" of play @ 49k miles must be really bad then. How could my dealer, umm former dealer possibly think this is ok? I'm sure on my truck that both the upper and lower steering joints are toast. Jim, do you also have a BL on your CC?

Steve

No body lift.
Yours must drive like an old tractor with all that play

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Jim wrote:No body lift.
Yours must drive like an old tractor with all that play

It's not far from it.

Kind of reminds me of some old trucks my dad used to drive. At 60 mph you could damn near swing the wheel 180* and still hold a srtaight line.

Steve

bubaloo1983 · Post by **bubaloo1983** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:42 pm

after reading this this sounds alot like what my problem is loosk like it off to the dealer again... i swear im going to shoot somebody....

ace · Post by **ace** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:00 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the PA lift instructions show making the holes on column more elongated with a file to essentially lower the column and in turn relieve some of new angle created after the lift?

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:21 pm

ace wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the PA lift instructions show making the holes on column more elongated with a file to essentially lower the column and in turn relieve some of new angle created after the lift?

I believe that is only for the ZR2 kit. If you have some binding it could be done though.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:20 pm

Interesting link about the Borgeson steering shaft by rlith over @ ZR2.com. He is a member here as well.

Facts about steering slop... The part #'s listed are the same part #'s I used for my SS minus the top u-joint which he says isn't needed. The price is also less than I previously thought. The 2 part #'s needed are 450024 (24" Telescopic Shaft) $63 from Summit, and 014931 (3/4" DD - 3/4 x 30 Spline U-Joint) also $63 from Summit. This mod eliminates the Rag Joint and offers better road feel and zero steering play. After 2 years with the same setup on my SS it is still as tight as when I installed it.

This would be a good mod for the people here running 31"-33" tires, or for anyone who is starting to develope steering play because of a worn out Rag Joint. I am going to order the parts tonight from Summit and I will hopefully have pics by next weekend. I have to fully rebuild the front suspension on my SS this weekend.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:41 pm

Something to keep in mind is that the rag joint does a good job of eliminating the transfer of vibration. The pot joints also provide a lubricated method of expansion of the shaft. The combination works pretty well and has been used since the sixties.
That being said, this is another maybe more cost effective solution:

Red Baron wrote:

From page 5 post 133 of my thread.

Well, I started thinking about buying a borgeson shaft, or flaming river. I did a 3 inch body lift. I really didn't want to relocate the upper column because it looks like a major PITA. I had resigned myself to paying out the nose for a FR/borgeson fix to it, or junkyarding for a stocker for a few thousand miles. With the body lift, the angle was pretty bad, and a stocker would not have lasted long. I decided that before I was going to pay that much cash, I was going to at least visit the 'yard, and see what I could find. Before I left, I cross-referenced the S10 truck box thinking maybe I could mate 2 different shafts to get what I needed, and seeing what all takes the S10 truck box. Son of a gun... some jeeps do. So I go to the yard, and I go and start looking at jeeps, comparing their steering shafts with the stocker I brought with me. Whaddya know... I found what amounts to a bolt in steering shaft (slight hacksaw mod needed, 5 minutes worth). All that needs to be done, is to separate the 2 halves, and hacksaw 3 or 4 inches off the INNER half, slide it back together, and bolt in. It has the correct size for both the steering column end, AND the steering box end (even has the flat on the box end, for those considering going with a ford shaft). The orientation of the clamps on either end of the shaft is correct as well. 2 U-joints and no more rag joint. My information is that the shafts are the same from 84-94 Jeep Cherokee with power steering. WOW what a difference this makes over the rag-joint. The upper steering column is in the STOCK location. The only possible concern I can see, is that the jeep shaft has a CLAMP style on the column end and not a through bolt, but I am using mine this way, and I can not get it to come off no matter how hard I try while its clamped tight. A through bolt/pin could be easily drilled if needed though.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:42 pm

Vibration is not a concern. The lower u-joint from Borgeson in my SS has a built in vibration reducer and their is no noticeable added vibration with this mod, but the steering feel is vastly improved. Rag Joints are not meant to operate at an angle which is exactly what the 2" body lift does to ours. The Borgeson u-joints use sealed needle bearings and have the correct dimensions and spline count for direct bolt in which eliminates safety concerns. Their steering shaft is a heavily greased collapsible design just like OEM to prevent injury from the shaft during an impact. For the money I do not believe there is a better set up that offers quality and safety of these pieces.

Steve

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:17 pm

Since HJ mentioned it, I would like to add the following part # for anyone else who attempts this mod and would like to have a vibration reducer built into the lower u-joint. Borgeson part # 034931 (3/4" DD - 3/4 x 30 Spline U-Joint with polyurethane vibration reducer) $88 from Summit. I have ordered both parts, but they are on backorder till 1/18.

I will get pics of the install as soon as they arrive.

Steve