Radiant Customs HID headlamps

[purduecrew]

Well guys, after consulting a few people, and really wanting to get back into something I enjoy, I started another business
Im naming it Radiant Customs, and the only thing I will be marketing is professional, safe, plug and play Xenon( HID) headlight retrofits. The designs will evolve through time but the basics are the same. A website will hopefully be coming soon!

Anything I put together will use DOT approved, OEM parts. All electronics I am currently using are Osram Sylvania, and all optics are OE xenon. Each kit will ultimately be as bolt in as possible, and include all neccessary components to do so.

I have been trying to put together packages for the 98+ S10 and the 82-93 Sealed Beam S10 crowd, while at the same time, able to custom retrofit any headlight of your choice. So, with all of that said, I just want to introduce to you my first design for the 98+ S10, which is a xenon low beam , halogen high beam reflector design.





No, you can't find these anywhere else in the world, as far as I know, this is a one off set! Please feel free to show support, criticisms, and ideas for all future posts! Thanks for looking and feel free to ask questions or even make a purchase!

[Horsehammerr]

Where is the corner amber light ? I know, and agree your design looks very clean, but that little amber light on the front corner really shows in a side view for safety.

[F9K9]

Stay away from the Wabash! It is making you goofy!

[purduecrew]

Where is the corner amber light ? I know, and agree your design looks very clean, but that little amber light on the front corner really shows in a side view for safety.

Im workin on that

Like I say, each set will be something new I will have to create, but I am workin on it!


And Reed, what are you tryin to tell me? You think Im nuts?

[green02crew]

how much do you think they would go for?

[HenryJ]

I am watching with interest. I do want to retain the use of my HIR Toshiba bulbs. The reduced power consumption and increased light output are very hard to beat.
Any chance this reflector would work for them?
A place for the side marker lamp in the corner would be a good idea. I would not want amber, just for looks I would use clear, probably. The required amber reflector is in the turn signal assembly.

I too would like to hear something about a projected cost.

[F9K9]

how much do you think they would go for?

Apparently, I the one that is goofy

[BADs Crew]

Stay away from the Wabash! It is making you goofy!

" Wabash" ?

[F9K9]

Purdue campus is on the banks of the Wabash River. I was only there once between tours overseas and was pretty much immune to the law out of courtesy from the police. I parked my Z28 in the Presidents parking space at some building. Pretty much everything else is a fog to me memory wise.

[purduecrew]

Yah Reed is right, the Wabash is the muddy river that runs by Purdue. Reed, sounds like you got some wild stories from back when

Brule, the Toshiba HIR's are indeed good bulbs and you better hold on to them at $25/piece. I am going to assume you have them in your low beams, and if that's the case, you can do a SMALL 5 minute modification to one of the mounting teeth to fit it into the 9005 high beam spot, which will allow you to use it with this housing perfectly. The low beam optic, the big oval, is stock xenon optics. It uses a D1 HID bulb, if I didnt mention that. Also, as far as the power consumption goes, these only draw 35watts, so that should help some of you with alternator strain issues with all your lights running.

I must have been exhausted from my saturday finals when I posted last night, because I knew I was supposed to put a price in there. As of now, the price is stuck around $525 for everything to do plug and play. Most importantly, Im going to offer a one year warranty on the electronics and my work. Dont forget, the electronics are all OE, same as in the new Z06 vette, so they should last as long as the truck. The kit will include a relay wiring harness, plug and play corner markers , so you dont cut any plugs off or wires if at all possible( really trying to get LED's in there, so clear when off, emit amber light for side markers). IF YOU SEND ME a set of "diamond clear" headlights, new or used, you can subtract $80 from $525 as I am currently paying that price for the clear front lenses. So those who made that initial investment, can benefit from it now. As I order more parts, my costs should go down from my parts source, so any time I can cut the price, I will.

As of right now I am not making much money on them (around $50) at a time investment of ~10 hours invested and thats not making mount adapters. I would be happy if I could make 10 bucks an hour on my work, that should help me pay the bills!

The S10 mounting bracket doesnt bolt up to the back of this new housing, so I am looking at some "hobby size" tig welders ($250 plus a tank ) right now to make adapter brackets, that will mate the new housing to stock s10 brackets and adjusters. I wont lie, Im getting really strapped with the initial investment, but as soon as I get a set or two made and sold, I will be in alot better position to get things rolling!

I am home tonight finally after getting 10" of snow at Purdue last night, so tommorow I am going to TRY and finish both and get them fired up tommorow night for true output pictures, and Ill pull my truck up and take comparison photos. Thanks for the comments guys! Keep em coming!

[HenryJ]

I think I will stay with my HIR. They are in the highbeam and the hallogen low beams have been modified to fit the low beam reflector, as they have the same light output of the HIR low beams.
A couple of things you will have to justify.
You are using an off the shelf "diamond clear" headlights. Those have not been designed for use with HID lighting. They are DOT approved for use with halogen bulbs.
Sounds like you are offering yet another HID conversion kit. Yes you are fitting the parts, but it is not a reflector designed for use with HID and I think you will be hard pressed to get DOT approval for a reflector that has not undergone their scrutiny.
Ok, that is the easy stuff. Now you are going to have to prove that this $500 investment exceeds the performance of a good set of HID offroad lights added to the truck.
That one will be difficult if not impossible.

I told you to expect some skepticism. I still wish you luck, but don't get too far out on that limb. I think there are stronger trees to climb.

[purduecrew]

Brule, that is not true. The OPTICS are in fact OE Xenon optics. They are designed for xenon bulbs, were made this way, and sold this way. All I am using is the LENS from a diamond clear headlight. Please re-read the large paragraph in my last post. I think that will clear it up. No other part of the diamond clear headlight is being used. I mean with all due respect, I told you before these aren't conversion "kits" and I wouldn't waste my time if they were. You find me any halogen reflector that has output like the ACTUAL picture I posted of that EXACT light ( taken by me) with an HID burner stuffed in it, and you will be a millionaire. Find me that housing on ebay, and Ill give you the set


I think Ill just have to take some detailed pictures, or maybe even a video...

[HenryJ]

Kelvin measurments , color measurements and mapping would be of value.

So you are removing the plastic lens and adding your own custom built reflector? If you have that capability why no build the clear portion of the lens too?
What are you using to properly design the pattern for the reflector?

Educate me. You keep saying these off the shelf reflectors are designed for Xenon bulbs. Xenon is a gas. What is the bulb design? Pictures would be helpful.
There were some really bad HID designs. Much too fragile for offroad vehicles.

[purduecrew]

Kelvin measurments , color measurements and mapping would be of value.

So you are removing the plastic lens and adding your own custom built reflector? If you have that capability why no build the clear portion of the lens too?
What are you using to properly design the pattern for the reflector?

Educate me. You keep saying these off the shelf reflectors are designed for Xenon bulbs. Xenon is a gas. What is the bulb design? Pictures would be helpful.
There were some really bad HID designs. Much too fragile for offroad vehicles.

Sure, I would be happy to post educational info, I just didn't want to insult people off the bat by assuming everyone didn't know some things about HIDS. Here we go!

Kelvin temperatures...ill let this chart do the explaining:


Basically a Kelvin rating just explains what color of light you will see at different values of K. If you will notice, a stock halogen bulb comes in around 3200K, hence its yellow nature. An OEM HID bulb however burns at 4300K, hence its much more white, almost blue output. Thats all the Kelvin rating means for intents and purposes.


Here is LMT mapping for this exact optic I am using with a stock halogen comparison from the original vehicle. An LMT is a very expensive lumen measuring device that is used by OE manufacturers to create these images seen below so as to gain acceptance from FMVSS108 standards. This is basically what you would see from a birds eye view.



In my design as of now, I am simply removing an optics free lens from a set of aftermarket S10 diamond clear headlamps, and mating them to different types of housings, or reflectors, if you want to use those words interchangibly. I do not have the ability to create the clear lenses myself nor do I have the capability to create the optical housing. Those require huge injection molding machines that cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Not im my budget
I am working on getting a mold made so as to spend several hundred up front but get the front lens done for $6-$7 a piece which would help get the final price way down! But thats another day. I am sourcing these various reflectors from vehicles headlights such as:
QX56, Acura's, Volvos, newer Envoys( 04+), etc., that come with factory HID headlights. What I do, is cut them out of their original housings and mate them into a new orientation to fit behind various lenses. Thats what I do when I say I am creating housings. However, I don't really want to say much more on that subject, or else I will give away all my advantages to production.

Xenon is indeed a gas, an inert gas. When you see a bulb on the AutoZone shelf that says "Xenon filled, woo hoo, super brite blue bulb!" Its true. The bulb is filled with a Xenon/inert gas mixture which is heated up by a very small tungsten filament. This excites the gaseous mixture which not only protects the filament from oxidation, the energy used in exciting the gas also emits light in the visible spectrum, specifically 3200K or so, thats where the Kelvin rating comes in.
In an HID bulb, the capsule you see inside the burner( the technical true word for the "bulb", is completely xenon, also containing metal halide salts which you can see, and with no filament. What happens inside an HID bulb is that extremely high voltage, >23,000, is applied to the burner via a ballast and an ignitor, to the capsule through two electrodes. The electrodes then form an arc, just like welding, and the extreme energy energizes the xenon gas to emit an even brighter, more intense light at a higher Kelvin rating, hence the 4300K rating. Keep in mind, the light from a light source, is merely the byproduct of a reaction.

As far as durability and HID's go, I beg to differ that they aren't of offroad quality. Any Baja 1000 vehicle you see is now strapped to the nines, with tons of off road HID flood and spot lamps. Many ATV's are running swapped in HIDs, and ATV's take a beating from what Ive seen. Yes they are susceptible to water damage and physical impact by the breaking of the actual burner. Vibration and harmonics will kill a standard halogen bulb long before it physically dismembers a xenon burner.

Brule, you are correct there are now currently 6 different types of xenon HID bulbs used in OE production. They are: D1S, D1R, D2S, D2R, D4S, D4R.

The # stands for the generation, and 3 was simply some non important changes nobody talks about, and is irrelavent to this discussion.

The R stands for "reflector". These bulbs are supposed to be used in free form reflector optic housings as they have a special carbon coating on the burner to cut down on any stray light within the housing. This is the burner used in the conversion I have listed here for sale.


The D1S bulb looks identical, without the carbon coating. These are intended for use in projectors, as they have a more efficient light output.

The 1 gen. burner, has the ignitor attached to the back of the actual burner, which was perfectly fine, however auto manufacturers wanted a smaller unit to worth with.


The D2R bulb looks like this:



Note the same "R" coating.
Same rules apply for the D2S model as the D1S model.

What you will also notice is that there is no ignitor on the back of this burner. This generation integrated the ignitor into the ballast for a more compact unit.

D4- this generation is different only in that the burner is mercury free, its an environment thing. D4 parts cannot be used interchangibly with D1 or D2 parts.

I hope maybe this makes things more clear!

[purduecrew]

Ok, I got one headlight COMPLETELY done tonight, got the chrome trim ring on it and all that good stuff. Im going to try and work on a prototype mounting system tommorow night.

[HenryJ]

What is going to make these better than adding a set of auxiliary HID offroad lights? The cost would be about the same and replacements would be easier to get.

[purduecrew]

Very valid point! However, these are not designed to be "off road lights".

These are for use driving down the road with better light output, something that can be used every night. You cant run your offroad lights down the interstate. Only other reason, is some people may not want to add off road lights onto their truck.

[HenryJ]

Ok, then what will make them better than spending $100 on a set of HIR Toshiba bulbs?Or even less by just adding the HIR to the highbeams?

[purduecrew]

Ok, then what will make them better than spending $100 on a set of HIR Toshiba bulbs?Or even less by just adding the HIR to the highbeams?

Well, lets break this down.

Toshiba HIR bulbs are very good for what they are! I would totally reccomend these for high beams in any situation, as high beam HIDs arent recommended due to cycling them on and off in a four bulb setup as our crew cabs have. The only way to get around this is to install bi-xenon projectors or a bi-xenon reflector setup.

Here are some comparisons:

Category HIR XENON

Lumens @12 volts 1850 3200 = xenon still 72% brighter
Life @hours 1000 3000+ = $300 for toshibas /life
Wattage Draw/bulb 52 35 = better power conservation
Kelvin Temp 3200K 4300K = xenon pure white
Physical Temperature HOT <HIR =xenons cooler than 9006


Heres the data page for all of those interested in the GE HIR bulbs. Im not just making these #'s up.

http://hirheadlights.com/hir%20techsheet.htm

If you go over these specs, what gets me, is that for the same life span, you will buy three sets of HIR bulbs totalling $300 before the Xenon bulb starts to go south. An HID bulb only cost approximately $60 for the set. So Xenons arent a $500 investment every time, contrary to what some may think.

Secondly, you are always getting close to twice the light all the time, on the roadway. Not only is the light whiter, its easier on the eyes for driving, and the light wavelengths actually excite the paint lines and road signs, making them extremely visible.

Another thought about light output, is that with the HIR's, you are only getting about 10.8 volts to your actual headlights. If you do the math, that means that you really will only see roughly 1300 lumens, whereas this retrofit will include a relay wiring harness, feeding the xenons their required 10 volts in any situation.

Also, I know many of you are looking to cut power consumption due to taxing the stock alternators. Xenons will cut a real world close to 40 watts of consumption compared to HIR bulbs at 12.8 volts.

Lastly, HID's run at a physically cooler temperature than stock 50 watt bulbs, so it only goes due to principle, that they will run even cooler than 52 watt HIR bulbs.

Any thoughts?

[HenryJ]

Here are some comparisons:

Category HIR XENON

Lumens @12 volts 1850 3200 = xenon still 72% brighter
Life @hours 1000 3000+ = $300 for toshibas /life
Wattage Draw/bulb 52 35 = better power conservation
Kelvin Temp 3200K 4300K = xenon pure white
Physical Temperature HOT <HIR =xenons cooler than 9006

These bulbs produce white light, rated at 3600 Kelvin color temperature

Not a big deal really. White is nice as our eyes are more sensitive to it.
I don't think your price estimate is accurate. I can still buy then for $29.95 No way I will need 10 in a lifetime. I do understand you are trying to make a lifespan comparison here. 1000 into 3000 is 3 times the life. at an additional cost of $120 to match the life. That means to equal the lifespan, not that I would come close, I would spend $180 on the HIR.

Comparing lumen the HIR highbeam is 2500 and HID 3200. Not a huge difference for the price.

Heres the data page for all of those interested in the GE HIR bulbs. Im not just making these #'s up.

http://hirheadlights.com/hir%20techsheet.htm

The original GE spec sheet info, for the prototype bulbs they discontinued, is at
http://hirheadlights.com/hir%20techsheet.htm

Can't use that data. That was a poor design and has been discontinued. You are not the only one using it. There must ba a lack of data for the toshiba design?

If you are the Highbeam bulb that I am using is 2500 lumens, and 116% brighter than stock when tested with a light meter.
If you go over these specs, what gets me, is that for the same life span, you will buy three sets of HIR bulbs totaling $300 before the Xenon bulb starts to go south. An HID bulb only cost approximately $60 for the set. So Xenons arent a $500 investment every time, contrary to what some may think.

Again the bulbs are the same price.

Any thoughts?

You say the HID does not like being cycled. The quadbeam mod would be a good idea then. You might integrate this in your wiring scheme. Keep in mind the low beam DRL that some of the S-series use too. That could be a problem.
If I was going to make this type of investment , I would want it for highbeam use. That is when I need more light. Adding light on the low beams sure seems a little risky. I will grant you it is nice and I really like my high beam bulbs down there, but I would not want to go brighter. I thought I read somewhere this was the maximum allowable candela for the low beam. Might check into that.
EDIT:

S5.5.11(a) Any pair of lamps on the front of a passenger car,
multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, or bus, whether or not required
by this standard, other than parking lamps or fog lamps, may be wired to
be automatically activated, as determined by the manufacturer of the
vehicle, in a steady burning state as daytime running lamps (DRLs) and
to be automatically deactivated when the headlamp control is in any
``on'' position, and as otherwise determined by the manufacturer of the
vehicle, provided that each such lamp:
(1) Has a luminous intensity not less than 500 candela at test point
H-V, nor more than 3,000 candela at any location in the beam, when
tested in accordance with Section S11 of this standard, unless it is:
(i) A lower beam headlamp intended to operate as a DRL at full
voltage, or at a voltage lower than used to operate it as a lower beam
headlamp; or
(ii) An upper beam headlamp intended to operate as a DRL, whose
luminous intensity at test point H-V is not more than 7,000 candela, and
which is mounted not higher than 864 mm above the road surface as
measured from the center of the lamp with the vehicle at curb weight;

candela
What candela are yours?

[purduecrew]

These bulbs produce white light, rated at 3600 Kelvin color temperature

Not a big deal really. White is nice as our eyes are more sensitive to it.

Do you have scientific data that shows it is irrelavent? HID's produce a pure white light, and HIR's produce yellow light in the 3200K range. HID's are closer to the perfect color for night vision, than HIR bulbs. HID's win this category.

I don't think your price estimate is accurate. I can still buy then for $29.95 No way I will need 10 in a lifetime. I do understand you are trying to make a lifespan comparison here. 1000 into 3000 is 3 times the life. at an additional cost of $120 to match the life. That means to equal the lifespan, not that I would come close, I would spend $180 on the HIR.

You said that HIR bulbs would cost you $100, and I know you can get them for $25/bulb. We are on the same page. One bulb=1000hrs, burning continuously, thats 3 sets of bulbs to equal 3000 hours. Granted your high beams wont run as much as your low beams, so make it $250 for the equivalent burn time worth of bulbs . I don't think my comparison was that far off.

Comparing lumen the HIR highbeam is 2500 and HID 3200. Not a huge difference for the price.

I never once said that this conversion was for high beam HID, so I dont know why you are comparing low beam HID to high beam HIR specs. Besides, you arent going to see 13.8 volts at your headlight socket are you? Please dont skew the #'s here. In reality your highbeams will only see high 10's voltage wise(slightly higher during winter cold), thats going to give you roughly 1800 lumens. However, that # is still irrelavent since we aren't comparing high beams. We are comparing low beam measurements. And if the 72% more light you are getting from HID's OVER HIR's, isn't worth it, then I guess automobile manufacturers are just pissin in the wind then?

Heres the data page for all of those interested in the GE HIR bulbs. Im not just making these #'s up.

http://hirheadlights.com/hir%20techsheet.htm

The original GE spec sheet info, for the prototype bulbs they discontinued, is at
http://hirheadlights.com/hir%20techsheet.htm

Can't use that data. That was a poor design and has been discontinued. You are not the only one using it. There must ba a lack of data for the toshiba design?

I have access to records far more official than that, trust me, theres no lack of data and I would be happy trying to sneak some more testing data out of the lab if you really don't believe the data I posted. It is accurate.

If you are the Highbeam bulb that I am using is 2500 lumens, and 116% brighter than stock when tested with a light meter.
If you go over these specs, what gets me, is that for the same life span, you will buy three sets of HIR bulbs totaling $300 before the Xenon bulb starts to go south. An HID bulb only cost approximately $60 for the set. So Xenons arent a $500 investment every time, contrary to what some may think.

Again the bulbs are the same price.

We covered this above.

Any thoughts?

You say the HID does not like being cycled. The quadbeam mod would be a good idea then. You might integrate this in your wiring scheme. Keep in mind the low beam DRL that some of the S-series use too. That could be a problem.

Those issues have already been solved with the wiring harness I have built thats laying out in the garage.

If I was going to make this type of investment , I would want it for highbeam use. That is when I need more light. Adding light on the low beams sure seems a little risky. I will grant you it is nice and I really like my high beam bulbs down there, but I would not want to go brighter.

Thats what I am trying to tell you, once you have this much controlled light available for low beams, you will never want to go back.
Brightness is subjective to the end user. Also, brightness is percieved, not measured. There is no "brightness" tester out there. The sensitivity of ones eyes decrease as the magnitude of light increases, which means the brighter the light, the less sensitive you will be. HID's are a wierd sight behind them, its almost "darker", but you can see more if that makes sense. What you are referring to is most likely luminance. Luminance is luminous intensity per square unit of area. This is why HID's excel in correct housing. It disperses MORE light over MORE area, resulting in a better quality of light( 4300K), in the same "luminous intensity" or "brightness" as you may call it, over a GREATER area. When you put HID's in halogen housings, the halogens have to concentrate light in certain areas to perform, and the HID simply overpowers those optics. That should really clear that up. So, they won't be any "brighter" than what you have.

I thought I read somewhere this was the maximum allowable candela for the low beam. Might check into that.
EDIT:

S5.5.11(a) Any pair of lamps on the front of a passenger car,
multipurpose passenger vehicle, truck, or bus, whether or not required
by this standard, other than parking lamps or fog lamps, may be wired to
be automatically activated, as determined by the manufacturer of the
vehicle, in a steady burning state as daytime running lamps (DRLs) and
to be automatically deactivated when the headlamp control is in any
``on'' position, and as otherwise determined by the manufacturer of the
vehicle, provided that each such lamp:
(1) Has a luminous intensity not less than 500 candela at test point
H-V, nor more than 3,000 candela at any location in the beam, when
tested in accordance with Section S11 of this standard, unless it is:
(i) A lower beam headlamp intended to operate as a DRL at full
voltage, or at a voltage lower than used to operate it as a lower beam
headlamp; or
(ii) An upper beam headlamp intended to operate as a DRL, whose
luminous intensity at test point H-V is not more than 7,000 candela, and
which is mounted not higher than 864 mm above the road surface as
measured from the center of the lamp with the vehicle at curb weight;

candela
What candela are yours?

Well, first, section 5.5.11 refers to DRL lamps and max candela requirements. This has nothing to do with low beams. Secondly, part (i) specifically states that any full voltage low beam intended even as a DRL, is not subject to the 3000 candela maximum. Please read that section more carefully.

You are right though, there sure is limits on luminous intensity, but for one these comply with FMVSS108 standards, which are what you should be looking for when checking legality of a headlight. Secondly, I told everyone on here already that these are OEM produced optics, so why would thoes be illegal if people are driving around every day with them on the front of their trucks??? Thats millions of fix it tickets for local law enforcement at this rate, but they are legal, hence no tickets, hence people driving around with these headlights everyday. But I have no problem breaking this down.

First, a candela is a unit of luminous intensity.
Second, a lumen is a unit of luminous flux.
Thirdly, a steradian the vertex measurement of the light emitting "cone" in use.

Candela= Lumens/steradians.

My low beam lamp for example can be calculated using the light area per a perfectly distributed cone. Its a headlight, so it isnt perfectly distributed, but we dont want to get into that for explanation simplicity.

3200 lumens/ 40*( measurement of stradians, but to convert into a usable number you must convert 40* emission cone angle using a nice equation that no one cares about. All I remember is that 40* is ="2.6"

So 3200 lumens/ "2.6" = 1231 candela. This again, isn't scientific, just a rough calculation. But at 1231 candela, looks like we meet the low beam maximum restriction of 3000 candela "DRL requirement"

Thanks for the good Q&A!!

[HenryJ]

Not a big deal really. White is nice as our eyes are more sensitive to it.

Do you have scientific data that shows it is irrelavent?

Sorry. I did not mean it was irrelevant. just not a huge difference in color temperature. It just a little more than the difference between HIR and Halogen. Noticeable, but not critical. At least in my perception. Is it an improvement over Halogen, oh, Yes!

Comparing lumen the HIR highbeam is 2500 and HID 3200. Not a huge difference for the price.

I never once said that this conversion was for high beam HID, so I dont know why you are comparing low beam HID to high beam HIR specs. Besides, you arent going to see 13.8 volts at your headlight socket are you? Please dont skew the #'s here.

I am not trying to skew numbers here. I don't advocate adding HIR bulbs to the low beam. That is a total waste of money when the stock highbeam bulb will give you the same amount of light at no cost. That is where I am going to the highbeam. That is what I am running and where the increased light is needed. If you want to strictly compare lowbeams, then there is no comparison the highbeam bulb to low beam reflector wins hands down. No cost and replacement available at any automotive store.

In reality your highbeams will only see high 10's voltage wise(slightly higher during winter cold), thats going to give you roughly 1800 lumens.

If your voltages are dropping to 10 you have problems and need to upgrade the wiring harness. The crew cabs are sitting pretty good there. I have a good alternator to match the accessories that I have added. Performance is at or just above stock. With 14.2 volts at the battery the lights get 13.5 or better. I used the lumens rated at 13.2 volts , so I do not see it out of line.

However, that # is still irrelavent since we aren't comparing high beams. We are comparing low beam measurements. And if the 72% more light you are getting from HID's OVER HIR's, isn't worth it, then I guess automobile manufacturers are just pissin in the wind then?

I don't think the difference is that big and that is what I an trying to point out here. Measurements with a light meter would be helpful. Hopefully you can have an independent source measure that for us.
The automobile manufacturers have been seeking this technology for a long time and many reasons. You are right that someday, the halogens may go the way of the sealed beam lamps. I think it is still going to be a while before that happens , if ever. They are not convinced yet either. Again cost not safety is the deciding factor here. They would build us a safe car if we demanded it, but we could not afford it. Are HID a big enough difference to be listed as a great mod for safety? I don't think they are in this application as there are less costly methods that offer close performance.

The original GE spec sheet info, for the prototype bulbs they discontinued, is at
http://hirheadlights.com/hir%20techsheet.htm

Can't use that data. That was a poor design and has been discontinued. You are not the only one using it. There must ba a lack of data for the toshiba design?

I have access to records far more official than that, trust me, theres no lack of data and I would be happy trying to sneak some more testing data out of the lab if you really don't believe the data I posted. It is accurate.

The quoted data was for a different HIR bulb design that failed. Your secret data really doesn't help. We need to stick to manufacturer data. If you quoted Osrams specs. That is fine. I only dispute the use of the GE HIR specs being compared to the only available HIR bulb from Toshiba. While they may be the best we have the difference needs to be noted.

...once you have this much controlled light available for low beams, you will never want to go back.

Agreed. I do have that now. I don't see yours being a huge difference over the $60 HIR/highbeam bulb mod.

When you put HID's in halogen housings, the halogens have to concentrate light in certain areas to perform, and the HID simply overpowers those optics. That should really clear that up. So, they won't be any "brighter" than what you have.

I do understand the need for the reflector to project correctly. HID can and will over power the wrong reflector and serve to put out light where it is not wanted. The optics are built to correct and direct the light. HID reflectors do the same thing. No disagreement here. Each needs to be in a housing that is correct for the build design. There is no benefit from either, nor gain. They have to place the light in the correct pattern and regulated by the CFR.

I told everyone on here already that these are OEM produced optics, so why would those be illegal if people are driving around every day with them on the front of their trucks?

They have them installed in a reflector designed for the application, as I hope yours will be approved someday. You can not just take a handful of DOT approved things, put them in another vehicle and still hold the DOT approval. Any alteration no matter how small will void the approval. Swapping out a bulb that is not approved, you lose the cost of the bulb. Yours is a much bigger investment. All those who added the APC clear corners took this risk , as did I. I take that risk with my HIR bulbs as well. The bulb is approved, the reflector too, but the two together have not. You have the same situation as no only are you altering the lens and mounting system, but installing it on a different vehicle. In my case, if they want to push it I will have to remove them. I don't want to pull a $500 set of headlamps. Different reflectors and lamps are allowed different maximums. That is what I was trying to determine. What is the maximum allowable candella for your light and reflector.

Sorry , I am a bit lost in your Lumens to candella conversion. The two are different measurements. Like measuring a pool of water, and a stream. Both have a given value of light but the two differ in the application. Manufacturers like to boast lumens where the DOT is worried about candela. I am learning a little here too. You have no way of measuring yours yet, since this measurement maps the light at a given point. You will have to gather that data for this application to receive DOT approval would be my guess. The angle of the light is where the difference lies. Until you have one mounted on an s-series there is no way to correctly measure. Your calculation shows that this may be an easy hurdle as you seem to be well under the maximum. This is again where I wonder. The idea is a big improvement, yet not to the maximum potential, and maybe even equal to less expensive options.

I think you could appeal to a bigger market and have better success working on a 100% HID system, or at the very least using them on the highbeam. Huge potential is there for gains where you are not worried about blinding on coming traffic. If I am going to spend $500 on lights they better be 500% better than what I have already.
Would these lights be better than the stock halogens? Sure they would! $440 better than HIR modded lights? I am not so sure.

[purduecrew]

If your voltages are dropping to 10 you have problems and need to upgrade the wiring harness. The crew cabs are sitting pretty good there. I have a good alternator to match the accessories that I have added. Performance is at or just above stock. With 14.2 volts at the battery the lights get 13.5 or better. I used the lumens rated at 13.2 volts , so I do not see it out of line.

Thats just it, you upgraded your alternator. How much does that costs? 150 bucks? What I am saying is that, not all of us have done that, and our s10 alternators aren't known for stellar performance correct? Also, the HID kit doesnt need a wiring harness, nor does it need more than 10 volts, but the kit includes one, just for the safety factor. I will try and find my multimeter (lost it last week), and take some measurements on my truck asap. I dont think it will be that far off...

I don't think the difference is that big and that is what I an trying to point out here. Measurements with a light meter would be helpful. Hopefully you can have an independent source measure that for us.

Here ya go, this is the lamp. Not one thing is different dealing with the optics.

Is the mounting system modified? Sure. Doesnt affect anything.

The automobile manufacturers have been seeking this technology for a long time and many reasons. You are right that someday, the halogens may go the way of the sealed beam lamps. I think it is still going to be a while before that happens , if ever. They are not convinced yet either. Again cost not safety is the deciding factor here. They would build us a safe car if we demanded it, but we could not afford it. Are HID a big enough difference to be listed as a great mod for safety? I don't think they are in this application as there are less costly methods that offer close performance.

We have our opinions, that is fine by me!

The quoted data was for a different HIR bulb design that failed. Your secret data really doesn't help. We need to stick to manufacturer data. If you quoted Osrams specs. That is fine. I only dispute the use of the GE HIR specs being compared to the only available HIR bulb from Toshiba. While they may be the best we have the difference needs to be noted.

The GE bulb didn't fail. GE sold the technology to Toshiba. GE doesn't have ground in the automotive field and decided to stay away from it. Its the same bulb. Those specs are the specs of the bulbs sitting in your headlights, period.
Also, I dont have secret data. It is just data that was collected with alot of expense, henceforth its not normally public information.

And if you are referring to the specs listed by that one ebay guy, all I have to say is he admitted to using "ancient 1950's testing equipment". I don't think I need to say more. I guess he also has a 0 lux room in his garage to do such measurements in?

...once you have this much controlled light available for low beams, you will never want to go back.

Agreed. I do have that now.

No you dont, you are still anywhere from 750-1000 lumens short.

I don't see yours being a huge difference over the $60 HIR/highbeam bulb mod.

Once again, pure opinion. Im speaking from having stock in my left hand and HID conversion in my right hand. I can speak from experience.

I told everyone on here already that these are OEM produced optics, so why would those be illegal if people are driving around every day with them on the front of their trucks?

They have them installed in a reflector designed for the application, as I hope yours will be approved someday.

How about getting approved five years ago?

You can not just take a handful of DOT approved things, put them in another vehicle and still hold the DOT approval.

Yep you are exactly right! All I have done is change the mounting system, and replaced a piece of clear uv protected lexan, with clear uv protected lexan. It is up to the end user to decide if they want to "take that risk" of converting to better HID lighting like this conversion setup.

The bulb is approved, the reflector too, but the two together have not.

Yes they have been, five years or so ago.

You have the same situation as no only are you altering the lens and mounting system, but installing it on a different vehicle. In my case, if they want to push it I will have to remove them. I don't want to pull a $500 set of headlamps.

If someone every gave you grief over them, to the point you have to dump them, ill buy em back

Different reflectors and lamps are allowed different maximums. That is what I was trying to determine. What is the maximum allowable candella for your light and reflector.

Well, any low beam optic is held to the same standard within FMVSS108. I dont care if its on a Hyundai or a Mercedes( well an American version).
What I have is a low beam optic, and it has been verified by Osram Sylvania and Grote Industries to fall within FMVSS108 low beam specs.

FMVSS108 calls for a maximum of 3250 "luminous flux", which are simply measured in lumens. As I have said before, these optics produce 3200 lumens. We are still within legal spec, AS THEY SIT IN THE GARAGE.

t;] Sorry , I am a bit lost in your Lumens to candella conversion. The two are different measurements. Like measuring a pool of water, and a stream. Both have a given value of light but the two differ in the application. Manufacturers like to boast lumens where the DOT is worried about candela.

I showed you the equations and the math. It is what it is.

I am learning a little here too. You have no way of measuring yours yet, since this measurement maps the light at a given point.

The given point you are referring to is called "H-V". You get to this point by drawing a line through the center of the bulb, inline with the filament,straigh out into space. Then you draw a line on the wall that is on the same plane as the first line you drew when the bulb mounting surface is perfectly vertical. This has been mapped on the optic I am selling, but is not public information. Believe you me, if I could obtain a hard copy of it, I would post it in a heartbeat.

You will have to gather that data for this application to receive DOT approval would be my guess. The angle of the light is where the difference lies. Until you have one mounted on an s-series there is no way to correctly measure. Your calculation shows that this may be an easy hurdle as you seem to be well under the maximum. This is again where I wonder.

Vehicle application doesnt matter. See above about "H-V". That is how this is negated. And yes, the candela hurdle, is in fact, not a hurdle at all.

The idea is a big improvement, yet not to the maximum potential, and maybe even equal to less expensive options.

I agree and I agree. Reflectors just look better. People dont like projectors due to the bugeye look. All you would have to do is buy the ebay projector lights for our trucks and swap in true HID projectors. Piece of cake and bi-xenon capability, the best output hands down I dont care what you say, and probably for around ohhhhhh Id say $450 if done by me.

I think you could appeal to a bigger market and have better success working on a 100% HID system, or at the very least using them on the highbeam. Huge potential is there for gains where you are not worried about blinding on coming traffic. If I am going to spend $500 on lights they better be 500% better than what I have already.
Would these lights be better than the stock halogens? Sure they would! $440 better than HIR modded lights? I am not so sure.

Well if you never try it, you will never know "for sure"! And as far as 100% HID, read above paragraph.

[HenryJ]

If your voltages are dropping to 10 you have problems and need to upgrade the wiring harness.

Thats just it, you upgraded your alternator.

Only to match the loads I have added. Performance should be very close to a stock vehicle without the additional electronics that I have added.
A drop below 12 volts is reason for concern.

Is the mounting system modified? Sure. Doesnt affect anything.

The height and angles as well as the lens.

The quoted data was for a different HIR bulb design that failed. I only dispute the use of the GE HIR specs being compared to the only available HIR bulb from Toshiba. While they may be the best we have the difference needs to be noted.

The GE bulb didn't fail. GE sold the technology to Toshiba. GE doesn't have ground in the automotive field and decided to stay away from it. Its the same bulb. Those specs are the specs of the bulbs sitting in your headlights, period.

You need to research that further. The designs are no where near the same. Ge did install their bulb in a couple vehicles. They were prone to fail do to vibration. That tiny rod to the end of the bulb was enough weight they would break. At the same time Toshiba took a different approach. Their design was superior, but was not picked up by a US manufacturer. GM was the driving force behind them.
That really has nothing to do with this discussion, other than the data is not the same.

And if you are referring to the specs listed by that one ebay guy, all I have to say is he admitted to using "ancient 1950's testing equipment". I don't think I need to say more. I guess he also has a 0 lux room in his garage to do such measurements in?

Sorry. I just have to shake my head at that statement. Light has not changed in 50 years. His comparison is valid. It may not have calibrated values, but the difference is what is being measured here. You do not have to use expensive equipment to make a comparison.

...once you have this much controlled light available for low beams, you will never want to go back.

Agreed. I do have that now.

No you dont, you are still anywhere from 750-1000 lumens short.

a 700 lumen color difference for $440. I still think I am sitting pretty good.

Im speaking from having stock in my left hand and HID conversion in my right hand. I can speak from experience.

As am I. Is there a big difference from stock. You bet.

I told everyone on here already that these are OEM produced optics, so why would those be illegal if people are driving around every day with them on the front of their trucks?

Because they have been altered and installed on a different vehicle. I think you will be fine. Just don't boast DOT approval. That is just not true.

If someone every gave you grief over them, to the point you have to dump them, ill buy em back

Careful a lifetime money back guarantee is hard to back up.

...as far as 100% HID, read above paragraph.

Lost me there. are you installing HID highbeams too?

[purduecrew]

If your voltages are dropping to 10 you have problems and need to upgrade the wiring harness.

Thats just it, you upgraded your alternator.

Only to match the loads I have added. Performance should be very close to a stock vehicle without the additional electronics that I have added.
A drop below 12 volts is reason for concern.

That is fine, but with HID's, thats just one more different accessory you can add before needing to step up the alternator.

Is the mounting system modified? Sure. Doesnt affect anything.

The height and angles as well as the lens.

Like I said above, this has ZERO EFFECT. Please read about "H-V" measurements. This is all that matters. If heigh and angles were of importance, then how does GM build a 3500 Sierra that sits 2 feet higher than a Honda? Is it blinding in your rearview mirror? Sure. But its still legal. Im done with this argument.

The quoted data was for a different HIR bulb design that failed. I only dispute the use of the GE HIR specs being compared to the only available HIR bulb from Toshiba. While they may be the best we have the difference needs to be noted.

The GE bulb didn't fail. GE sold the technology to Toshiba. GE doesn't have ground in the automotive field and decided to stay away from it. Its the same bulb. Those specs are the specs of the bulbs sitting in your headlights, period.

You need to research that further. The designs are no where near the same. Ge did install their bulb in a couple vehicles. They were prone to fail do to vibration. That tiny rod to the end of the bulb was enough weight they would break. At the same time Toshiba took a different approach. Their design was superior, but was not picked up by a US manufacturer. GM was the driving force behind them.
That really has nothing to do with this discussion, other than the data is not the same.

Do you have this different data then? I honestly don't believe it exist. Vibration will kill any filament based bulb, its the nature of the beast. Xenon bulbs have no filament, hence superior offroad performance and longevity. I agree. Done.

And if you are referring to the specs listed by that one ebay guy, all I have to say is he admitted to using "ancient 1950's testing equipment". I don't think I need to say more. I guess he also has a 0 lux room in his garage to do such measurements in?

Sorry. I just have to shake my head at that statement. Light has not changed in 50 years. His comparison is valid. It may not have calibrated values, but the difference is what is being measured here. You do not have to use expensive equipment to make a comparison.

Nope it hasn't, but two things: 1. Technology changes. 2. The important part of my statement is about having a completely dark room. There is a reason that Grote has a triple walled, sealed room, with black painted walls and black painted floors, and black painted cielings.

...once you have this much controlled light available for low beams, you will never want to go back.

Agreed. I do have that now.

No you dont, you are still anywhere from 750-1000 lumens short.

a 700 lumen color difference for $440. I still think I am sitting pretty good.

Im speaking from having stock in my left hand and HID conversion in my right hand. I can speak from experience.

As am I. Is there a big difference from stock. You bet.

Last time you said you had HIRS, not HIDS. Has this changed? Otherwise, you HAVENT held up this HID conversion to even HIR's for comparison, so you cant say you see the difference.

If someone every gave you grief over them, to the point you have to dump them, ill buy em back

Careful a lifetime money back guarantee is hard to back up.

For you Brule, I would happily offer a lifetime warranty. Im really not worried about them.

...as far as 100% HID, read above paragraph.

Lost me there. are you installing HID highbeams too?

No. What I am saying is projectors are the key to 100% xenon lighting, but no one likes the bugeye look. If you want 100% xenon, let me know, you can have it in projector form at the drop of a hat.

[HenryJ]

Thank you for offering a rational discussion. We may disagree about a few unimportant facts, but the exchange was good.
I wait to see what you come up with. Good luck, and I am serious about that. I do wish you well.

Post your plans on the HID forums for some more feedback. http://www.hidplanet.com./

[purduecrew]

I thought I posted this in my last post. Apparently I didnt. Please watch!


No problem, and yes, most are menial issues that most don't even know/care about.

Hopefully these posts will show everyone, that I really am serious about this and that I didnt just slap crap together, that I really have thought things out to the extreme and that 99.9% of bases have been covered.

I am also a longtime fan of HIDplanet

[GeorgesBlazah]

Very Nice.

[WileyHunter]

Aren't DOT approved parts, only approved for the application they were designed for???

In other words. If you take DOT approved parts from 3 different vehicles and merge (morph) them together, are they still truly DOT approved? Or wouldn't they have to go through a testing/approval process as a new product? Not trying to start any trouble, just want to understand this possible issue.

[HenryJ]

Aren't DOT approved parts, only approved for the application they were designed for???

In other words. If you take DOT approved parts from 3 different vehicles and merge (morph) them together, are they still truly DOT approved? Or wouldn't they have to go through a testing/approval process as a new product? Not trying to start any trouble, just want to understand this possible issue.

I think you understand it as I do. That is part of what we were discussing above.
While his lights may get approval someday, I think the DOT approval on the parts is void in all but the approved application for which the DOT marking was granted.

That may be a risk the buyer takes. I know that my clear corners are not DOT approved. The bulbs I have in my lights are not either. The bulbs in my low beams bear the DOT approval, but not in the application or manner I have them installed. Same goes for the highbeam bulb.

This may be a risk you take. A hard nosed, very well educated law enforcement person may uncover your modifications. Properly adjusted and used responsibly there should not be an issue. If push comes to shove, I am in the wrong. That could possibly be said for any modification. Some of the risk always goes to the owner/modifier.

In this day and age , all avenues to protect yourself should be taken. Lawyers will go after the deep pockets. They will sue everyone and take the cash where they can. While it may be far fetched to think of the headlamps as a major liability risk, maybe not so much. Failure to shovel your walkway after a snow storm could be construed as negligence.

[purduecrew]

Aren't DOT approved parts, only approved for the application they were designed for???

In other words. If you take DOT approved parts from 3 different vehicles and merge (morph) them together, are they still truly DOT approved? Or wouldn't they have to go through a testing/approval process as a new product? Not trying to start any trouble, just want to understand this possible issue.

Brule hit the nail on the head with his above post. We have in fact been talking about this comprimise in the thread here. Like Brule states, basically anything modified outside of the GM assembly line is technically not DOT. Only big name aftermarket manufacturers strive to get "DOT" approval for their parts.

I am in fact going to try and get these tested before I go back to school and see if in fact they do pass, but I do want to stress that I have never claimed for this unit in itself to be DOT, just that I have used all DOT parts and not just cheap rigged up stuff.

But thank you for thinking through things like this, as it makes me more educated and helps to ensure that the end customer gets only the best when it comes to anything I sell.

Update! I have a gentlemen that has volunteered to make the brackets from aluminum so I can get them installed, and then pursue getting the brackets made on a larger scale from a jig. However, these wont be necessary for testing,which will hopefully get tested sooner than later.

Please feel free to keep questions rolling!

[HenryJ]

... just not a huge difference in color temperature. It just a little more than the difference between HIR and Halogen. Noticeable, but not critical. At least in my perception.

I was wrong. There is a huge difference in the color difference and the light provided, or at least in my perception of the light. The numbers just do not fully provide the best representation of the difference.
There may be more to this than I think. I will be watching. It will be interesting to see more.
Do you have a good recipe for crow? "Forget Beef, Crow...that's whats for dinner."

[purduecrew]

well I got the lights finally mounted last night. Ill try and take some pics and vids tommorow night.

[Geoff]

ok and the next real question, and im REALLY hoping the answer will be yes....are you going to make these for the GMC?????

[drperry]

How efficient are your ballasts?

I'm currently running a Pilot HID kid, and initial fire up spikes at 20 amps before dropping the the running amperage of 3.3 amps or so...

I also went through the trouble of wiring my truck so I'd have no DRL's and the quadbeam mod with a relay for the low beams.

Polarity reversal wiring is a PITA, lol.

Is your harness non-drl compatible? or will it make the HID's come on as a low beam DRL?

[purduecrew]

ok and the next real question, and im REALLY hoping the answer will be yes....are you going to make these for the GMC?????

Haha well anything can be made. I prefer using projectors, and my good friend has a GMC Crew, which I could use as a template to make a set. Otherwise a set that looks like these, would run close to $600!!!

You could always adapt the Envoy factory setup

but even those used are about $5-600 and arent the best performers optically.

If you were able to like the look of projectors, I could easily do a set for around $400.


The performance is unbeatable and Im looking for a reason to use this 6" projector:


*These particular projectors are around $500 for the set, just to get em , before swapping them in!

Feel free to ask questions, send me a PM, etc. I am more than happy to answer questions!

[purduecrew]

How efficient are your ballasts?

I'm currently running a Pilot HID kid, and initial fire up spikes at 20 amps before dropping the the running amperage of 3.3 amps or so...

I also went through the trouble of wiring my truck so I'd have no DRL's and the quadbeam mod with a relay for the low beams.

Polarity reversal wiring is a PITA, lol.

Is your harness non-drl compatible? or will it make the HID's come on as a low beam DRL?

The only ballast I use are Valeo or Phillips. I have not taken measurements as of yet ( I lost my multimeter about two weeks ago) but would be happy to do so as soon as I get another multimeter. I am willing to bet that they are as efficient as any other aftermarket ballast.

Also, the wiring harness that I would include can either disable DRL's or you can choose to have me leave it to the high beams for DRL's ( as my truck does stock). Also, my wire harness will allow for quad-beam activation as well.

Im not sure what you are referring to with the polarity reversal...

What kind of setup are you running on your truck? Im sure many other board members would like to know if a more budget conscious conversion is neccessary for them. Thanks and Happy New Year!

[HenryJ]

... not sure what you are referring to with the polarity reversal...

I am pretty sure he is referring to the method used to create reduced intensity DRL. They run in parallel for normal operation and in a series for reduced intensity DRL operation. The right side light wiring sort of reverses in this operation. What was a positive becomes the negative for the left hand light.

[purduecrew]

ohhhohohoho now that makes sense! Yah, we can just either disable them or let the truck do it for us. I know some trucks( not sure why) use the low beams for DRL's but I am sure we can jump that hurdle when the time comes.

[drperry]

It was a PITA for me to get no DRL's and a low beam power relay wired in, and still keep quadbeams...

If you measure the highbeam plug, I think it is, with the positive lead from the tester on either plug, and the negative to a ground, both give a + number... That might be for lowbeam, though...

I ended up bypassing the BCM for low beam operation, as when the lowbeams are grounded in any way, they come on as DRL's... Or mine did, anyway, using the + wire as the trip for the relay, and the lights and relay grounded to the chassis.


Currently I'm running e-bay projectors and a Pilot HID kit... There's no bleed through on the light pattern, which is nice... However, the cheap ebay brackets make one light sit crooked, lol. I might put them onto the stock brackets... We'll see.

It's a Blazer, but the wiring should be all the same, lol.

I refused to have HID's without the quad beam mod... Since they hate turning on/off quickly, plus, when you've been driving on the highway for awhile with just highbeams, and you turn them off, you'll have a short period of darkness while the HID's warm up...

[purduecrew]

Ya know, I had that exact same problem with an aftermarket bracket. I had to switch one side back to the stock bracket as the other side was using a stock bracket, and it fit fine on the first attempt.

Did your truck come with low beam DRL's stock? I know mine were high beams from the factory.

[drperry]

So switching to the factory bracket will fix the cockeyed look? Sweet, lol, good thing I've still got the factory headlights...


My DRL's were originally the highbeams. Because of the inital surge of HID's for the ignition charge, I wanted them getting power from the battery, instead of the factory wiring, as eventually, I think a 240 watt surge on the system might cause issues... Your ballasts may not have that issue.

But what happened is, to disable my DRL's I bent pin 86 on the DRL relay... Worked great, even after I did the quadbeam mod... Until I tried to power the lowbeams from a relay at the same time.

If the low beam gets grounded, the BCM automatically sends a signal to turn them on as DRL's... or at least mine did, lol.

That's using the traditional method of chassis grounding the lights and relay, power from the battery, and the low beam plug for the trip wire.

[t0mills]

I'm very interested in these headlights. When will you have a set available for purchase?

Thanks,

Tim

[purduecrew]

Well, heres some new pictures and video from the other night. I have been a little sidetracked with my parents ordeal for the last 48 hours.

The headlights can be built and bolt in at any time now. HOWEVER, this is still a complete hand built assembly with MIG welded brackets to attach the light to the stock mounting bracket. So far the light has ridden on the truck for four days, passed the road salt, and pouring rain, and snow, with zero problems so far. I think that aftermarket brackets are going to be a problem. One caused me alignment problems, and you can see it in the pictures on the drivers side.

As far as price at this time goes, I see it like this. If you want a set, I would be happy to build them for you, diligently. However, I will tell you that I have right at $525 or so in the parts alone, due to zero purchase power. So I would be willing to do a set for $600 at the moment, just to get my name out there and hopefully satisfy the first few customers. If you want to see a better price, you will have to refer to the other HID thread here to see your options, if you haven't investigated OR you can get a group together, so that I can afford to send this off and get them made with more precision or in molds that are supposed to fit an s10

Enjoy the pics and vid!!!








And video!

Brule, heres a good demonstration of that warming up effect--->



Here is a night drive video I took down the highyway. There is no ground to the right, its a steep drop, so thats why it looks dark. Also, notice that not one of the three cars that I passed, gave me the brights. Thats a least a good sign its not a glare machine ENJOY AND ASK QUESTIONS!

[t0mills]

Looks pretty good. I know it's hard to judge output in videos and pics, so, in your opinion, how do they compare to an actual projector retrofit?

I've got a set of TSX projectors and ballasts that I've been planning to retro for the past year, but have not had the time.

Can you get a shot about 20' back from a garage door or something like that? Maybe a side shot down the wall?

I don't feel that $600 is bad for a complete kit with ballasts and bulbs. I may end up buying a set from you, since I could sell the TSX projectors.

Thanks,

Tim

[purduecrew]

Looks pretty good. I know it's hard to judge output in videos and pics, so, in your opinion, how do they compare to an actual projector retrofit?

I've got a set of TSX projectors and ballasts that I've been planning to retro for the past year, but have not had the time.

Can you get a shot about 20' back from a garage door or something like that? Maybe a side shot down the wall?

I don't feel that $600 is bad for a complete kit with ballasts and bulbs. I may end up buying a set from you, since I could sell the TSX projectors.

Thanks,

Tim

Tim,

I wont lie to you, hands down, projectors are no doubt the best output by about 300 lumens. They are simply too efficient being a sealed unit and using a unform focusing lens,etc. Those projectors you have, have a very nice sharp cutoff, and a good wide beam, a great all around projector.

As far as output goes, my opinion is that the light output is ALOT more uniform than the halogen lamps. Also, the cutoff extends way off to each side, where as the halogen has hot spots, ill get pics of that.

Now heres the reason I am doing all of this. I love projectors, but sometimes I think they look a little goofy, ya know? Kinda look bugeyes, eyeballs, round peg in a square hole, sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Call me what you want, but I act about my cars, like girls do their clothes, except on a college budget

I think the reflectors just look sexier on the s10's....




I will go out and get some pictures here in just a few minutes. I will use my dads 94 sonoma, which hands down, has the best composite beams and the brightest, that have ever been on an s10. They are also produced by Guide Technologies, the same company that produces the lamps for our crew-cabs, as a baseline to compare against. Ill also get a 25 foot wallshot, thats pretty standard. I will try to get that "down the wall shot" but I will bet that you wont get that perfect projector look that is downright awesome...brb.

[purduecrew]

Well here are some comparisons...DAMN ITS COLD OUT!

Stock 94 Sonoma with new battery and alternator, so its puttin out good power.

Vs. 03 S10 with reflectors, and newer battery

Stock Low

HID Low




Stock 94 High

S10 HID High


I forgot the down wall shot...I can get that tommorow night maybe

[t0mills]

Very Nice! Thanks for the pics, that really puts things into prospective.

I knew that the reflector based HID lights wouldn't be as wide and as smooth as the TSX projectors, but they are leaps and bounds better than the stock s10 lights.

I've ridden in a couple cars with reflector based HIDs, and I think the lights you've made look better. I wasn't impressed with the IS300s lighting, and Navigator was pretty good.

I just don't want to deal with swapping in projectors, and sourcing clear lenses, and dealing with rotational alignment. I did all that on a car I used to own, and it was a PITA.

And like you, I think that projectors kinda look a little out of place on the S10 trucks. I can't really picture mine with them...

Link't Image over 100k forum limit-HJ

What's an estimate on how long it would take you to have another set ready to ship?

Thanks,

Tim

[purduecrew]

SICK TRUCK!!! Fix that pic so it will show, its totally worth it!

PS, how long you had the truck? How did you find us? Inquiring minds would love to know!


Heres the only downer with these at the moment. I will probably have to ask for most of the funding up front for one simple reason. Im taking a set of $450 HIDS, cuttin them in half, basically ruining them, and a set of aftermarket clears, and ruining them too. Im not saying one single negative things towards you or insinuating that you would even think of doing something bad, but if for instance someone would decide they didnt want them, im out $525 bucks basically for two different lights I cant use, ya know what I mean? So half and half would be ok with me if thats ok with you, and I think the forum will vouch for who I am, if that comes into question.Please dont take that personally, its just the tough spot im in at the moment with college.

As far as time schedule goes, I start back at school Monday, and Im workin on completing some taillights for a group over on the syty forum. Secondly, I still havent gotten ahold of my daggone 194 leds to come up with a side marker solution, I dont know if that bothers you, so that may take a week to figure out as well.

Basically if I could have the parts to my door on like the 14th, they could probably be completed and shipped on the 21st. Weekends are my best time to work.

Give it some thought, Im happy to answer any questions, stuff like that.

It would even come with a wiring harness at that price too! I really want to get a market built for these, and at Brules constant prodding, I will proceed with some contacts to hopefully have them tested for DOT compliance if at all possible.

[F9K9]

Awesome except for the color

[Horsehammerr]

Can we see the spec. list on that truck ? Can a CC go that way ?

[F9K9]

.................... Can a CC go that way ?

Yep! Since '05.

[Geoff]

ok well thanks for the reply on the GMC.

i asked because rght now us GMC guys have ZERO options for aftermarket headlights. we can clear the orange reflectors out of the corners, or we can do the envoy swap which is atleast several hundred. most say its done for about 1100, but they are using the envoy bumpers and such. the headlights themselves are 5-600 bucks and like you said are limited in performance.

i would LOVE to have a set of projecters in the GMC, that would be soo awesome but i dont know how id go about it. i was thinking maybe to get the clear lense piece from the envoy, and then fitting a projecter into the stock GMC housing but then i dont know how that would effect the high beam bulb since it kinda relays on the lense fluting to help with its terrible beam.

the other thing i was wondering is how tall is a s10 headlight and turn signal when stacked ontop of each other? is it the same as the gmc headlight. i wonder if a stacked s10 light assembly and some brackets would look good in the place of a GMC headlight.

[F9K9]

......................the other thing i was wondering is how tall is a s10 headlight and turn signal when stacked ontop of each other? is it the same as the gmc headlight. i wonder if a stacked s10 light assembly and some brackets would look good in the place of a GMC headlight.

Change grilles and it might just work. I know that the same retainer clips work on both.

[purduecrew]

ok well thanks for the reply on the GMC.

i asked because rght now us GMC guys have ZERO options for aftermarket headlights. we can clear the orange reflectors out of the corners, or we can do the envoy swap which is atleast several hundred. most say its done for about 1100, but they are using the envoy bumpers and such. the headlights themselves are 5-600 bucks and like you said are limited in performance.

i would LOVE to have a set of projecters in the GMC, that would be soo awesome but i dont know how id go about it. i was thinking maybe to get the clear lense piece from the envoy, and then fitting a projecter into the stock GMC housing but then i dont know how that would effect the high beam bulb since it kinda relays on the lense fluting to help with its terrible beam.

the other thing i was wondering is how tall is a s10 headlight and turn signal when stacked ontop of each other? is it the same as the gmc headlight. i wonder if a stacked s10 light assembly and some brackets would look good in the place of a GMC headlight.

I think I can picture what you are saying. Ive never seen it done so it would definitely be unique!

If you decide to stick with GMC headlights and want to go projector, let me know, I can start kickin some ideas out and see if somethin tickles your fancy. Thats a big headlight with alot of options for alot of light

[Geoff]

id rather stick with a GMC headlight. i did some looking into the s10 lights and its just not gonna work how i want it to. plus i have already done stuff to my front end that id have to buy again if i did the s10 swap.

[purduecrew]

well sound like you know what you wanna do


maybe you could get those tsx projectors off of t0mills if he wants to buy a set of my reflector retros...then I could put those nice tsx projectors in the sonoma housing... or just splurge for the gatling gun projectors...they are 6 inches in diameter but that would look good in that big ole headlight!

[drperry]

That's a pretty damned good job you've got done!

Almost enough to make me ditch my projectors...

Though, I wouldn't mind seeing how they work with a 55 watt HID kit, lol.

For comparison, if you want, I can try and take some pics/videos so people can see the difference between the ebay projectors and the good stuff

[purduecrew]

sure! by all means if you would like to, I dont see why not!

[drperry]

Well, apparently my camera really sucks at taking night pics and videos, lol.

It does better if it's sitting on my brushguard... but I didn't want to drive around like that

I'll see if I can get a better video comparison soon...

This one was taken awhile ago...



Same as this one... My driveway is on a slope, and I was part way down to take this pic...



These ones are from tonight... The one of the road doesn't seem to capture the light as well... It could be because I'm moving, or because I forgot what works best for night pics... HID's only, no highbeams...



And these to are my garage with HID's then highbeams.



The higbeams don't really change the light a whole bunch in front of the truck... But they've got a lot more distance.



I'm tempted to slap some HID's into the highbeams as well... Test out one of those Ebay 55 watt kits, lol.


Let me know if there's anything else you need! I'll throw any kind of help I can, lol

Also, can't remember if I mentioned it or not, but I have a 6000k kit in mine... So it's not going to be quite as bright as yours, as you've got the 4300k... or 4150... Whichever factory is, lol.

[purduecrew]

so what setup are you running? I dont think you have mentioned that!

[drperry]

Thought I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I guess I must've forgot

I'm running ebay projectors, with a PilotHID 6000k H1 kit.

And a whole lot of monkeying around to get the power relay to work properly

[purduecrew]

now that I think about it, you sure did. Man Im already losin it!

[drperry]

That's okay, lol, I'd completely forgotten that I'd posted it until you mentioned it...


What kind of changes do ya think could be done to the highbeam optics for HID optimization?

[purduecrew]

Well if you are asking what I think it would take to put HID's in the high beam, Id say it wouldn't take any work. In fact, I have kicked around the idea of using a bixenon projector in the low beam side of those ebay housings, and then putting HID's in the high beam like you mentioned, that are on a seperate "offroad" switch. This way you could have some nice offroad lights, with no external housings to mount, especially if you didn't have a grille guard. I would reccomend against using them on the road under normal driving since they don't like to be cycled.

Optically, the high beams would be fine. The problem with putting HID's in halogen housings also stems from the light source being an arc, instead of a linear filament. The glare produced by this offset wouldn't be of concern in an offroad situation.

Hope that answers your question.

[drperry]

Yeah, I understand that... I was just wondering if there was a way to better focus the light, lol.

I haven't decided if I'm going to HID my off-road lights, or if I'll HID the highbeams and foglights...

Though, after using the projector fog lights... They don't shoot that far, lol. Maybe I'll use a projector headlight with a modified cut-off...

I drove one guys truck who had dual HID's in factory housings, and the highbeams were wicked awesome! But, like you said, they don't like being cycled, lol.

[purduecrew]

As far as focusing the optics, you cant really mess with free form housings unless you have alot of money behind you. Anytime you change the depth of the reflector, focal length changes, as well as if you change the width or height. So pretty much unless they are injection molded to your specs, we are stuck with what we have. The high beams are quite exceptional in this headlight I built, and an HID would surely improve that, but of course, you would need a bixenon for driving duties...

[drperry]

I'd like to HID all my offroad lights... but I'd need 5 units, lol.

The guy with the HID highbeams said he hasn't really had any issues with it... Ahh well, maybe I'll break down and do some testing...

Maybe some of the newer stuff handles the job better, lol.

[purduecrew]

UPDATE:

Im doing a quad FX35 retro to 98+ GMC headlights this week. I will get pictures as soon as I have anything worth while to post. Its getting accented with white paint to match his white truck, and may have some chrome trim. The whole setup is going to run about 650, but could be had for about 450-500 if he would have stuck with one set of projectors...


Also, Im still trying to work with an OE company to create aftermarket solutions for the 98+ S10, Sonoma, and the old sealed beams.

[drperry]

For a big headlight like the GMC's, you should be able to work in a fairly large HID or projector unit... The GMC lights have the potential to totally own the S10 lights, due to the massiive surface area...

[purduecrew]

I begged and pleaded with him to do Q45's but that would have put him well over 700, something I couldnt convince him to do.

[drperry]

I begged and pleaded with him to do Q45's but that would have put him well over 700, something I couldnt convince him to do.

Is that one of those gatlin gun style projectors?

If I didn't offroad at all, I'd have me a good set of custom made HID projector fog lights in my valence right now...

[drperry]

I just noticed... But I don't see a spot for a corner marker light...


Also, would it be possible to get these things blacked out instead of chrome?

[williamcstonejr]

If you were able to like the look of projectors, I could easily do a set for around $400.

We are talking about S-10's right? Not exactly the flagship of GM. Honestly if I am going to spend $400.00 on my truck it is not going to be on headlights. Nothing personal, it's just I purchased this truck for $$ reasons as a daily driver. I just happen to fall in love with mine after driving it everyday. Personally for me if I am going to fork out $400.00 it will go towards bodylift, wheel spacers (Yes Brule I said wheel spacers) bigger tires ETC. I could be wrong but I do not see this going very far with S-10 owners. Now foreign cars (Tuners) I think you could make mega bucks. I just think that a CC owner places his headlights low on a mod list unless they are offroad lights. But that is just my opinion

[purduecrew]

I just noticed... But I don't see a spot for a corner marker light...


Also, would it be possible to get these things blacked out instead of chrome?

yea thats a bridge I havent crossed. I havent really been overwhelmed by a feeling that it needs one, but I am looking for a solution. and yes! you can black it out everywhere except for the optics. Infact, you can do whatever color you want while it's apart.

Scary thing is, Im puttin this set up for sale. They arent perfect, but with a few hours work, someone could have them perfect. They are just too expensive at this point to reproduce, as molds are gonna cost me at minimum $80,000 to get them made. Thats out. So its either by hand, or none at all.