Tranny Cooler...

SomeCrew · Post by **SomeCrew** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:42 am

So most of you now know I am turning big ole 35" tires. In the summer, I will be hauling a boat about 3 times the size of an average 2 person jet ski. I am going to put the 410 gears in eventually, but for now, I want to get a tranny cooler to keep the tranny safer. Does anyone know what a good buy of a tranny cooler would be for someone like me turning big tires and hauling a boat?

Post by **HenryJ** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:24 pm

get as big as you can fit in there. I like the "sandwich style" / "aircraft" oil coolers.

Mine was $50 through a local radiator shop.

Check out this thread- Transmission cooler

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:47 pm

just measure and then go to the local napa and get the biggest one you can

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:16 pm

seen a truck show on speed chanel and the mounted a cooler in the back (spare tire location) and used an electrin fan

cooler air man

coffeedrnkr · Post by **coffeedrnkr** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:17 pm

I just picked up my tranny cooler today (actually yesterday), I will get pics ummm.......today when I get it installed.

geez, it gets late so fast

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:37 pm

seen one on the tv today , i don't remember what show, b&m makes it and it has the stat and fan on it.

SomeCrew · Post by **SomeCrew** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:08 am

Another question, is a tranny cooler and an oil cooler the same thing or different? And if different, should I get both?

jeff024 · Post by **jeff024** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:17 am

oil cooler

trans cooler

not the exact parts you may need just a few pics

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:24 am

I wouldn't think you would need an oil cooler if your engine temp is okay. I plan on reinstalling my 180° T-stat. I have seen them that tap into oil lines near the filter or is an adapter for the filter itself.

HJ would know more but, my gut tells me that if an oil cooler would help, he would have already done it.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:26 am

SomeCrew wrote:Another question, is a tranny cooler and an oil cooler the same thing or different? And if different, should I get both?

They are different, and similar.

They both cool different types of fluids. A transmission cooler can be a little more restrictive since the operating temperatures can be higher and the fluids viscosity is lower.
An engine oil cooler needs to be less restrictive, handle a less viscous fluid, and operate at higher pressures.

Adding an auxiliary transmission cooler is a necessity. The stock engine oil cooler is probably sufficient, and in some cases people are deleting it. The engines oil temperature is better regulated through changes in the thermostat, radiator, airflow, etc.
Adding a larger, or auxiliary engine oil cooler would be a last resort.

SomeCrew · Post by **SomeCrew** » Sun May 01, 2005 6:55 pm

OK sweet deal, so I can pick up this tranny cooler at say a pep boys or advanced auto right?

Also, does it come with all the hardware I need? If not, what hardware do I need to get?

RocK · Post by **RocK** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:49 pm

Hey yall, I was just wonderin if anybody has tried any of these kinds of coolers. Are they worth anyting. Seems to me that the traditional style would cool better, but you know how tech works nowadays.

Comments?

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ ... rmenbr=361

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:00 pm

RocK wrote:... wonderin if anybody has tried any of these kinds of coolers...
Heatsink cooler

Pricey and...

Moroso wrote:Note: Not Recommended for use on the street.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:24 pm

SomeCrew wrote:OK sweet deal, so I can pick up this tranny cooler at say a pep boys or advanced auto right?

Also, does it come with all the hardware I need? If not, what hardware do I need to get?

Which one, there are many available, different brands styles.
They can require different hardware as well.

Your questions are best answered by the person behind the counter. If you buy mail order read the parts list to see if it includes everything you need to install. Most do, but some may use flare fittings, compression fittings, pipe thread, etc.

SomeCrew · Post by **SomeCrew** » Mon May 02, 2005 6:33 pm

O.K. thanks a bunch.

jeggers · Post by **jeggers** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:32 am

somecrew, did you get the cooler installed?

SomeCrew · Post by **SomeCrew** » Mon May 16, 2005 6:33 pm

No, havent had time to go looking for one yet, I have been EXTREMLY busy these past couple of days. I havent even had time to check out this site in a few days.

daevans315 · Post by **daevans315** » Tue May 17, 2005 12:55 pm

Just another option to throw at you... You could go with the larger radiator listed in the mods section of this site. It includes a proportionally larger engine oil cooler and tranny cooler built into it. I have been very happy with the larger radiator in my 97 4.3 that I auto cross. It keeps the tranny and engine temps down considerably over the stock. I have seen some failures of the aftermarket tranny coolers either because of bad installs or bad parts. The complete larger radiator, although more pricy, is a very easy install. I might guess even easier than pluming the second tranny cooler.

Just something to think about.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:02 am

f9k9 wrote:...I want to skip the tranny rubber hoses and do the tranny cooler connections on the lower rad. I have zip experience with bending tubing, flanges. flaring and have no tools to perform such tasks. I am not wild about being ripped off and would like to try to do this myself if, the tools can be borrowed from Advance or purchased relatively cheaply.

Suggestions, opinions, instructions and advice is welcome

Hard lines from the radiator could be possible, but way too much work for the small gain, IMO. Not to mention the transfer of vibration that would occur.

My suggestion is to go with the rubber lines. Do not cut anything. Use the adapter fitting in the radiator to attach your hose, and slide the connector back on your hard line, slip the hose over it and run it to the other cooler connection. This way if you have a problem with the cooler or lines you can hook them back up to the radiator alone.

Now if you are really against hose clamps you could get a cooler that has AN (Army-Navy) , tapered flare connections, or pipe thread. Then use appropriate adapters for the radiator and line. This would require having a shop make you a pair of hoses to attach, or buying replaceable ends and building your own. Granted once you're done it would be very nice and professional, but LOTS of work.
I used russell aluminum fittings and stainless braided lines on the HenryJ, but be prepared for lines like that to cost more than your new radiator.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:34 pm

Thanks, Brule. I think I will follow your suggested route. I took Mrs F9k9's ankle biting feces eating puppy to the vet today and had to stop at cingular to get her new phone lined out. It was not over 85, I cracked the hood and I parked in the shade. When I came out, it was at 220 and I immediately shut off the AC and cranked the heat to the max after I dropped the windows. It cooled off fast but, another 10 minutes could have been disastrous.

Wasn't worried about the ankle biter, just my Crew!

rmzl · Post by **rmzl** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:38 am

HenryJ wrote:

A newbie question,

, what are those cooler lines on the right? I always thought they were for the engine oil, but the engine oil cooler is inside the radiator oposite to the trans cooler ! These go somehow to the power steering

??

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:05 am

rmzl wrote:A newbie question, , what are those cooler lines on the right?

The cooler line on the right is the factory power steering cooler.

Steve

rmzl · Post by **rmzl** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:31 am

Thanks.
Is this setup standard on other cars/trucks. I never heard the Blazer make those whining noises from the power steering that other cars (drove a Cherokee for a while) do. keeps the steering in better shape ?

kf6kmx · Post by **kf6kmx** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:13 am

We use various ones like this on a lot of custom hot rods/drag cars since there isnt always alot of room up by the radiator..
One is mounted up under the tilt-bed on a custom 50's truck with tilt-flatbed.. with the bed down, you cant see it or hear it (over the engine sound

) with the bed up it looks pretty cool with the rest of the bed hydraulics system also in that area.

High-performance fluid coolers.
If you're looking for excellent fluid cooling, look no further than Derale's Atomic-Cool remote fan mounted oil coolers.

These coolers feature:

* High-performance plate and fin oil cooler with no restriction or oil pressure drop
* AN inlets (-6 for transmission, -8 for engine oil)
* "Curved Blade" electric fan
* 400 cfm at 0 static pressure
* Fully reversible--will push or pull
* Billet aluminum brackets
* Can be mounted anywhere
* Electric fan supplies airflow

Brand: Derale
Product Line: Derale Atomic-Cool Remote Fan Mounted Oil Coolers
Overall Height (in): 10.00
Overall Width (in): 12.50
Overall Thickness (in): 4.0
Cooler Construction: Plate
Cooler Material: Aluminum
Fan Quantity: Single
Maximum Fan CFM: 400
Fan Diameter (in): 8.00
Inlet Size: -8 AN
Inlet Attachment: Male threads
Outlet Size: -8 AN
Outlet Attachment: Male threads
Number of Cooling Rows: 15
Core Height (in): 10.00
Core Width (in): 10.00
Core Thickness (in): 1.25
Cooler Finish: Black painted
Quantity: Sold as a kit.
Notes: Includes two -8 AN to 1/2 in. hose barb adapters. For use on vehicles up to 30,000 GVW.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:57 am

rmzl wrote:Is this setup standard on other cars/trucks? Keeps the steering in better shape?

They are standard on some vehicles and should help the overall life expectancy, but they only work when the vehicle is moving fast enough to allow air to flow over the cooling tube. A better power steering cooler would be similar to the tranny cooler only smaller.

Steve

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:35 am

Was doing some research on tranny coolers this morning, and bumped across this thread....I know it's old, but I'm going to throw a few pics up here as well for anyone that might run across this thread in the future.

Here's some pics of the setup my buddy put in his Silverado. AN lines and fitting throughout, and a VERY clean/professional install. He used to be a mechanic for United Airlines, so he doesn't know how to "1/2 a$$" anything

http://www.turbols6.com/gallery/view_al ... ado&page=4

I'll be adding a similar setup to the ZR5 here in a few weeks. I was seeing temps in the 184* range the other night while datalogging. Little to hot for me, especially if I intend to be towing in the future. The above setup dropped the temps to near 130* or so...from roughly the same values I was seeing stock.

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:42 am

HenryJ wrote:

i prefer this type of cooler as well. however, mounting the inlet/oulet fittings in the downward position on this type of cooler, does leave the potential for a sizable air pocket to remain trapped in the upper part of the cooler, which could reduce its effectiveness to some degree.

it is preferable to mount these coolers with the fittings either sideways, with the fluid returning to the tranny (exiting the cooler) connected to the top fitting, or with both fittings pointing upwards, to ensure all air gets purged from the cooler....

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:55 am

crew cab sonoma wrote:i prefer this type of cooler as well. however, mounting the inlet/oulet fittings in the downward position on this type of cooler, does leave the potential for a sizable air pocket to remain trapped in the upper part of the cooler, which could reduce its effectiveness to some degree.

it is preferable to mount these coolers with the fittings either sideways, with the fluid returning to the tranny (exiting the cooler) connected to the top fitting, or with both fittings pointing upwards, to ensure all air gets purged from the cooler....

Good point!

I'm surprised nobody else noticed the incorrect mounting in the photo. I have mine installed with the fittings facing the passenger side.

If anyone else has their cooler mounted like the one in the picture, you might want to consider relocating it to the correct position.

The instructions included with most coolers will warn you of this problem, however most people will just install them thinking it doesn't matter which way it goes.

Sometimes it's a GOOD idea to read the instructions!

Steve

kauaibuilt47 · Post by **kauaibuilt47** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:07 am

what size B&M are you guys running?

2kwik4u · Post by **2kwik4u** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:20 pm

kauaibuilt47 wrote:what size B&M are you guys running?

I intend to buy the largest I can find.

I know the Syclone/Typhoon guys use the largest available, and can still easily heat the tranny above safe temps. However they are also putting down 400ft-lbs, and have AWD so thats a bit different. I can see towing getting close to the same abuse with a good sized trailer (3,000lbs or more) ...However IMO, it's very hard to have too much tranny cooler.

I've discussed with various people the ideal temp for a good long tranny life. Most say in the 165-175 degree range is ideal for a long life. I know stock mine is near 200 on a regular basis with just around town. I'm sure with the towing I have planned later this summer it will be higher. Although I have every intention of running a cooler before I tow anything! Good friend of mine put one on his silverado (largest he could find...28,000 GVWR I think), and it pulled his temps from 200 degrees around town to 180 degrees or so. He is now contemplating taking the stock cooelr OUT of the system, as the stock cooler will always be heated to the same temps as the coolant for the motor. Which will never be in the 165-175 range (at least not without a lower temp thermostat....and I'm not getting into that again in this thread).

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:29 pm

killian96ss wrote:
crew cab sonoma wrote:...it is preferable to mount these coolers with the fittings either sideways, with the fluid returning to the tranny (exiting the cooler) connected to the top fitting, or with both fittings pointing upwards, to ensure all air gets purged from the cooler....
Good point! I'm surprised nobody else noticed the incorrect mounting in the photo...

I would dispute "incorrect" and would agree with the above "preferable".

Sideway mounting was not an option in this case.

EDIT: Thanks for the "push" to take another look at this. I do my best to strive for the optimum performance, and this did bear a second look. I popped the grille out and took a third look at the mounting. Turns out that I did have room to twist it sideways afterall-

There is not doubt that this position is preferable. This also allows the debris to better fall out the bottom whereas the previous mounting tended to trap debris at the brackets.

BTW, those of you who have not cleaned the radiator, condenser and cooler in a while...it would be a good idea. I was surprised that mine was a bad as it was.

Thanks for the "heads up guys" keep up the good work.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:37 pm

HenryJ wrote:
killian96ss wrote:
crew cab sonoma wrote:...it is preferable to mount these coolers with the fittings either sideways, with the fluid returning to the tranny (exiting the cooler) connected to the top fitting, or with both fittings pointing upwards, to ensure all air gets purged from the cooler....
Good point! I'm surprised nobody else noticed the incorrect mounting in the photo...
I would dispute "incorrect" and would agree with the above "preferable".

Sideway mounting was not an option in this case.

Huh?

The above photo does show the incorrect mounting position.

My Perma-Cool instructions and all the auxiliary cooler instructions I have ever read clearly state that the correct mounting position is with the inlet/outlet fittings either on the top or on the side. There is no preferred mounting position. You can either do it the right way or the wrong way. The decision is up to you!

Sorry if I am being too picky, I just don't want people to think that it is ok to mount these coolers anyway you want.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:52 pm

Guess you posted while I was making an addition to my post

Any cooler is better than none and aircraft sytle coolers handle different positions better than some.

You win. I hate bad information too. This one could have easily been misleading. Good catch guys.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:58 pm

Steve's, crew cab sonoma's and HenryJ's info is deeply appreciated and wish that it had been posted earlier. I think mine is mounted with the inlet/outlet towards the passenger side but, now, I gotta check.

Just another example of what little things that knowledgeable ones take for granted when doing "How Tos"

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:20 pm

Don't forget that the original write-up taps the stock upper cooler line. I think it is preferable to intercept the lower line.

crew cab sonoma · Post by **crew cab sonoma** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:09 am

with the fittings mounted downwards, it is possible that fluid velocity may end up sweeping away all the air out of the cooler, i dunno.
but i have seen one such installation, after a 20 mile drive, where the upper third of the cooler was still cool to the touch, and the lower part was quite hot. indicating to me that there was still air in the cooler.

bear in mind that if you mount the fittings sideways, that the direction the fluid flows through the cooler is somewhat important.
the fluid should enater at the bottom, and exit at the top, to ensure all air has been purged.
i cant remember which line at the rad. is the out from the tranny, and which is the return.

if the fittings are mounted upwards, the entry/exit sides shouldnt matter.

GeorgesBlazah · Post by **GeorgesBlazah** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:53 am

hmmmm I mounted my cooler the wrong way. I will hafto give it a look and see if the top of the cooler warms up.

GeorgesBlazah · Post by **GeorgesBlazah** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:01 am

Checked it yesterday after a lil drive. Top of the cooler is jsut as hot as the bottom.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Is the cooler I am using. Not as big as the other, but it says it cools 24k gvw I think.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:26 pm

You guys have drove me nuts worrying which way I mounted my aux cooler

My second hand WAAG grille/brush guard needed some work so I combined the guard and checking my cooler. Needless to say, I can rest tonite knowing it was mounted with the inlet/outlet on the side.

Honestly, sometimes ignorance is bliss

GeorgesBlazah · Post by **GeorgesBlazah** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:09 am

HenryJ wrote:Don't forget that the original write-up taps the stock upper cooler line. I think it is preferable to intercept the lower line.

Why would ya say it is better to tap the lower line? The upper line is the line going into the radiator correct? I would think it would be better to cool is off before it enters the radiator to take some of the workload off of it(the stock cooler).

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:27 pm

GeorgesBlazah wrote:Why would ya say it is better to tap the lower line? The upper line is the line going into the radiator correct? I would think it would be better to cool is off before it enters the radiator to take some of the workload off of it(the stock cooler).

The lower line comes from the transmission to the cooler (cooler inlet) and the upper line is the return to the transmission (cooler outlet)

You are right. It is preferable to circulate through the auxiliary cooler first and then into the radiators cooler before returning to the transmission. This is most important for warming the fluid up to operating temperatures quicker.

It has been a very long time since I have double checked this, so I can only assume that I am indeed correct. I use a transmission fluid exchanger when servicing a transmission. Fluid flow is pretty easy to see. You can check yourself by taking a line loose and starting it briefly.

It does seem backward since the hot goes into the radiator at the top, and the cold is drawn out at the bottom. I can only surmise that the "cooler" is designed more as a warmer

rick · Post by **rick** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:45 pm

I just found a nice cooler at the pull-a-parts out of a wreck fullsize Ford Crew van (9 passenger van) that was rolled over. Both the inlet and the outlet both pointed down. I just set it in place and all the factory brackets mounted on the cooler fit the s-10 perfect. No modifications. The lines will point down.
If I take pictures can someone post them for me.

rick · Post by **rick** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:43 pm

Here is a couple of pictures.
http://members.cox.net/rsavko/P1010253.JPG
http://members.cox.net/rsavko/P1010254.JPG
I took the bumper off to paint black and change the lower valance from white to black.
I will mount the lines as soon as I can get a flaring tool for the factory lines.
I guessing the the radiator is no longer used for the cooling the transmission?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:49 pm

Looks good

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:50 pm

rick wrote:Here is a couple of pitures.
http://members.cox.net/rsavko/P1010253.JPG
http://members.cox.net/rsavko/P1010254.JPG
I took the bumper off to paint black and change the lower valance from white to black.

I like the custom (appearing mounts)! Looks very professional!

rick · Post by **rick** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:01 pm

I am very happy with the 100% fit, It was even slotted by the grille mount but slightly smaller. I used a die grinder to to square off the hole. I used the original bolts for the install. To be exact it came from a 1995 Ford 9 passenger van. It cost $20. + tax. The s10 grille is accually raised just above the grille mounting hole so the top bolt does not interfere. Also I placed an old license plate behind the support when I drilled not to poke a hole in the condenser.

rick · Post by **rick** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:36 pm

Henry here is a copy of a reply of yours.

I am running the lines in series with the stock cooler. The rubber lines just go from the aux cooler to the radiator cooler connection that I intercepted.
Rubber lines all the way back to the transmission would also be a bit risky. Steel or braided stainless steel wrapped would be better if indeed the occasion should arise.

It flows like this: lower line pumps fluid from the transmission to where I attach the hose and route it to the aux cooler. It then leaves the aux. cooler and returns to the lower connection on the in tank stock cooler. Flows through it and back to the transmission via the upper steel line.

This allows the fluid to be warmed to operating temperatures during cold weather as well as reducing the temperatures and transferring less heat to the coolant during hot weather.

QUESTION: I see the way you have, the tranny cooler is really a precooler. I was worried that here in Arizona where it is hot all the time that if the truck overheats it will still overheat the transmission. If I hook it in the same fashion from the top line it will run through the radiator then to the cooler and back to the transmission for optimal desert driving.

Post by **HenryJ** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:21 am

Maintaining operating temperature is critical to transmission life. The transmission needs to warm up to temperature as quickly as possible. Even in a hot climate this is true.
The transmissions maximum temperature threshold is well above the engines overheating point. Another way to think of this is by precooling the transmission fluid you will be transferring less to the engine coolant, there by reducing engine operating temperatures. Now if the transmission fluid is cooler than the engine coolant, you are pulling heat from the coolant and there by reducing engine temperatures again. Sure seems like a win, win. It has been my experience that it much harder to keep engine temperatures down. Anything that can be done to reduce heat to the engine is of more benefit.
Now , I know adding the auxiliary cooler in front of the radiator poses more issues, like blocked and preheated airflow, but those may not be as critical in this equation. I feel that running through the auxiliary cooler first is the best choice.

Is it wrong to tap the top line? No. Any cooler is better than none. If you want to you could delete the stock in tank cooler all together. If you plan on pulling lots in a hot climate and really heating the transmission, that may be a good option, although I would still probably opt to go the way I have mine.