Does anyone understand axles?

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:27 pm

I was looking through websites and particularly ebay on different axles, dana 44, dana 60, dana 70 etc with different WMS widths. Well I have no clue what people are tlaking about and i would like people to help me out if you could.

first, what do the different numbers mean (i.e. 30, 44, 60, 70 etc.)

second, what does WMS mean?

Third, can an axle from a larger truck (say a dana 60 from a ford) be cut down to size? Like they say a WMS of 68", cut 4" off and fit into a CJ.....

fourth, if the axle can be cut, do the splines have to be cut as well?

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:14 pm

Justin wrote:I was looking through websites and particularly ebay on different axles, dana 44, dana 60, dana 70 etc with different WMS widths. Well I have no clue what people are tlaking about and i would like people to help me out if you could.

first, what do the different numbers mean (i.e. 30, 44, 60, 70 etc.)

second, what does WMS mean?

Third, can an axle from a larger truck (say a dana 60 from a ford) be cut down to size? Like they say a WMS of 68", cut 4" off and fit into a CJ.....

fourth, if the axle can be cut, do the splines have to be cut as well?

I'm not an expert, but I'll help with what I can.
The different numbers are model numbers 30 is smaller than 80 and so is the physical size, This guide may help you understand some of the differences : Jeep axle guide

WMS=Wheel Mating Surface (the portion of the axle flange that the wheel bolts to , including the drum or rotor)

Any axle can be cut down to any size. Now whether it is economically feasable or not is another question.

I'm not rich so most of my narrowed axles are 9" Ford, for several reasons.
Availability is good , it is a strong axle, prices are cheap, Does not use C-clips to retain axles, gears are everywhere and any ratio is available. The axles have less taper than some (GM) which means less to cut and still be able to respline.

Narrowing the housing is a piece of cake. An old circle track car builder here calmed my fears of doing my own housings. He said " Aww heck I just slap a piece of angle iron on there to line things back up , and weld'r up". I did do a little more than that . I have a jig that slides through the housing to keep things perfectly straight, but He was right , it is not rocket science.

When cutting the axle shaft , you must cut off enough of the taper to get to a section that has enough diameter to enable resplining. This plays into how wide the axle must be if trying to go cheap.

The next option is to buy custom axles the correct length. I'd recommend Greg Moser Engineering for both resplining and custom axles.
They are super people to work with and have very good axles (I'm running ME axles in both the HenryJ and Vega). Can't beat the prices either.

Hope I was of some help.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:14 pm

Thanks Brule,

But what is the terminology open rear? or full floater?

I'm looking at a set of cheap Dana 70's that I would need to be restored and converted to disc. Don't know what I would do with them but you never know..possible SFA or use them for a future project. I found out from the dealer that I only recieved a 12 month, 12,000 mile extended warranty after the new motor installation so that is coming to an end this summer.. I'm contemplating the superlift only if i can fit 35's. If not, than I may do SFA much like Warnoffroad had with 35's (axle over spring up front). Who knows..we'll see what happens this summer..but either way, a set of cheap dana 70's is a good project....

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:41 pm

Justin wrote:...what is the terminology open rear? or full floater?...

Open rear or open diff. refers to a differential with just spider gears. No posi, a non-locking differential.

Floater refers to the axle shaft Floating axles have splines at both ends with the axle floating between. The hub has bearings and a cap with splines that couples the axle. The cap can be removed and slide the axle out replace the cap and run without the axle if you break one.

Semi floater has the axle shaft attached to the cap (one piece) and just splines on the end that goes into the differential side gears. If an axle is broken the piece can be removed ,reinstall the end with the cap and you're still mobile.

Both are pretty strong , since the axle shaft does not bear the load of the hub, which has its own bearings.

A non floater has the hub, or axle flange as part of the axle and is disabled if an axle is broken. The wheel bearing is directly on the axle shaft.

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:20 am

HenryJ wrote:
Justin wrote:...what is the terminology open rear? or full floater?...
A non floater has the hub, or axle flange as part of the axle and is disabled if an axle is broken. The wheel bearing is directly on the axle shaft.

ya, thats what 10 bolts are. on coloradok-5.com there are some pics of guys who broke axels, then had to get another k5 to drive along next to there tire and rub tires together till they get back to a trailer. a PITA. if you float, then when you brake and axel, your whole wheel doesnt go flying off....important saftey issue when racing

BTW, dont know much about 70's except for the fact that they are super super heavy and your motor will feel like a 4 banger with them on. is this a set front and rear?

also, if you want to go reliable, 35's is too much for the s-10. SFA is your other choice. then i would do dana 44's like warn to keep the weight down. 60's and above are heavy SOB's. if you get an old k5, you could get real cheap 10 bolts out of the front and rear for nothing, mabey free or bettter yet, find a 3/4 ton with the 14 bolt and a 44 up front. thats your cheapest combo. then just swap them in. you dont have to even spend thousands on rebuilding them if you are just going to put 35's on and not wheel it hardcore....

but if you want to know specifically about the dana 70...go to pirate4x4.com, post in the general section, and telll them all the info about the 70's that you have. and see if they are worth it. and see what everyone says about them....dont worry about being flamed

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:35 pm

Aren't full size truck axles a little wide for our trucks? I think I will pass up the dana 70's (yes front and rear) and start looking for 44 up front and maybe 44 or 14 bolt in the rear....

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:40 pm

well. every inch you go up, you need to be getting wider. everybody has their own rule of thumb on this....but if you want the perfect donor truck for the s-10....its the 72 to 78 ford truck. it has the dana44 up front and a 9" in the rear. and it happens to be the perfect width for our trucks. its a bit wider but i needs to be if you lift it.....

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:33 pm

so now obviously I would want to find a front axle with the pumpkin on the drivers side..correct?

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:42 am

found a dana 44 with a passanger side drop? This may sound stupid but could I flip the axle to get diver side drop? But then the gearing will be backwards???

AZS10Crew · Post by **AZS10Crew** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:07 pm

Yep...your tires will spin the wrong way. Not sure if you can change it around to counteract that or not.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:22 pm

ok guys here's the deal, My dealer told me that a 12k, 12 month warranty is issued after a motor installation. Not a 36k, 36 month which I had thought.

. Service rep didn't specify just told me i was starting like it was a new machine (should have asked about warranty info but non the less I shouldn't complain)

so getting back to the subject. i found an off-road jeep place much like chucks trucks in providence,RI. They specialize in custom and aftermarket lifts for jeep vehicles as well as jeep repairs on the side. I emailed both matt (warnoffroad) about his lift and whether or not Chuck from chuckstrucks can come up with a kit and have it shipped up here. Matt said it could be done so the next step is to contact and maybe order the kit. This place in providence said that they could be able to do something like that and I could even help with the buildup. They have alot of jeeps go through their company and it is easy for them to find a set of dana 44's and leaf springs. i spoke with the owner and told him I would rebuild the front and rear axles with the right gearing, work on the rear end and gut the front end out at my garage then trailer the truck down to have them install the front end, square it all off, hook up the steering, brake lines and new driveshafts.

I really want my truck to look like matt's when he had 35's and still be able to drive it on the highway when i have to. I know I tlaked of a possible long bed conversion during the summer but this would be better....I still have 2 months left on the extended warranty but I think it gives me enough time to gather everything i need and to work on the axles (gear change and disc brake change)...

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:06 pm

Justin wrote:I really want my truck to look like matt's when he had 35's and still be able to drive it on the highway when i have to.

Yea, that was a sweet setup. I'd love to get blue prints of that set up. Matt, is that possible? Blue prints with part numbers of leafs/hangers/tie rods, etc? Guess that's too much to ask for.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:27 pm

Matt told me that the leafs were from superlift and he believes they were actually a 6" kit for the older wagoneer 23.5" center to loop

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:44 pm

Justin wrote:Matt told me that the leafs were from superlift and he believes they were actually a 6" kit for the older wagoneer 23.5" center to loop

Oooo, ooooo, can you verify this Matt??? Like you talk'n bout pre grand/regular Cherokee? The ones that had the 360ci in them? Like the 70's?

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:47 pm

Duh, I guess it have to be, the 70's were leaf fronts. Did he use the tie rod and steering setup from that also? We gonna have to start an SFA section!

a2b · Post by **a2b** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:49 am

justin, sfa to s-10's isnt new. once you go there, its not really a kit anymore. any fab shop should have the know how to do it. springs and axels are the easy part. putting up the steering is bit harder but not that hard. to figure out what springs you need, measure how long they will need to be, then decide lift and then just order the springs...most spring shops will want to know the weight and that stuff too. you know how to weld. if you have a garage just do it yourself. it will be a hell of alot cheaper. go to pirate4x4.com and you will get all the info you need for your project, and you can see what other s-10's used for all their parts

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:48 am

So I stopped in at a collision repair shop that also installs skyjacker lift kits on jeeps. I spoke with hima bout my ideas on what type of lift i would like and mentioned that i needed a set of axles and some leafs. He asked me which states I would be driving in then advised me against doing any type of lift greater than 4" on my truck. I told him it was done on other trucks much similar to mine. He said that it could easily be done but the states would give me a hard time with regards to inspection as well as frequent cop pull-overs. After reading the lifting laws i had posted a while back,

RI= 4" from stock
MA= 2" from stock
NY = 24" bumper height, 54" headlight height

and all recomend 2-3" additional size in tire diameter

So if I want to install a 10" lift and 35" or 37" tires, I doubt I will be able to pass inspection and I am sure i will get a fair set of tickets. i don't know, what do you guys think???

Post by **HenryJ** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:16 am

Justin wrote:... i don't know, what do you guys think???

Don't mess with your daily driver.

You already have a nice truck, why don't you buy a toy to mess with?

S-10CREWCAB.NET

Does anyone understand axles?

Does anyone understand axles?

Re: Does anyone understand axles?