Dang eFan.....

[2kwik4u]

So about 3 years ago I installed a nice Ford Taurus fan on my roomates '02 4.3/4L60E Xtreme. He decided a few months ago to trade the truck for something else so I bought all the mods off of it including the fan.

I installed the fan last night, only to find that the electric thermostat is DOA. So I had to do a temporary re-wire.....I hate doing crap like that, but I had to drive to work this morning. I'll do a complete remake on the wires this weekend, and get some pictures.

I'll also get some results on gas mileage, and power increases. Not much to report on the commute into work this morning. Although I did stay nice and cool

[2kwik4u]

Quick report on this issue. Drove to S-series Nationals this weekend in St Louis. Temps while driving were in the mid-upper 90's the entire way.

The truck BARELY stays cool with my current setup. With the fan on high I had some issues with the breaker blowing. So it looks like I need to do some more mods to make it through this summer while towing the boat.

Can you guys post your total cooling system upgrades so I can see what I have left? I know some of you live in some pretty hot climates, and abuse the trucks pretty hard.

So far I have The 180* Thermostat, and a Taurus eFan.....I'm guessing I need to upgrade the radiator to the HD one, and possibly switch to LS1 fans in place of the Taurus fan.

[F9K9]

Are you using your stock fan shroud? Water Wetter? Here's a common one for XJs

[2kwik4u]

Yes, the stock shroud is still on there. And I'll be doing a flush and fill one night this week and refilling with a 75/25 mix of Antifreeze/Water with Water Wetter going in first.

[F9K9]

.........................75/25 mix of Antifreeze/Water with Water Wetter going in first.

Water Wetter first is smart. Don't forget the block's drain plug on the driver's side. I was amazed how much came out of there when I pulled it.

[killian96ss]

I'll be doing a flush and fill one night this week and refilling with a 75/25 mix of Antifreeze/Water with Water Wetter going in first.

I would recommend a 50/50 mix of antifreeze/water + 1 bottle of Water Wetter.

More antifreeze than water will give you a higher boiling and better freeze protection, but it also reduces the rate at which you cooling system can pull heat out which make the cooling system less efficient.

If you lived in Alaska I would say go for the 75/25 mix or higher.

Water will remove heat much faster than antifreeze, but you also need antifreeze to control the boiling point, freezing point, and to fight corrosion.

If you want even more cooling power try 2 bottles of Water Wetter.

If you haven't already spliced one of those flushing tees into you system, then make sure you put the tee on the correct heater hose (inlet hose).

The inlet hose is the one that connects to the intake manifold.

If you put the tee on the other hose your heater core won't get properly flushed out.

Steve

[2kwik4u]

I was thinking 75% water, 25% anti-freeze...I just re-read what I posted. I'm an idiot and wrote my ratios backwards. I meant 75% water......Run that for the summer, and then back to 50/50 for the winter. I don't mind doing the flush/fill a couple times a year if it will help keep me cooler in the summer. I've debated running just 2 bottles of water wetter, and distilled water in the summer months just as extra double sure I have enough cooling (I do this in the Xtreme for the Autocross season). Not sure if I really want to do taht in the daily though.....Have to mull that one over.

Is there any extra heat extraction to be had with the larger radiator? Will I be simply wasting cash to get it, or is it worth while. I'm headed to the search feature now, but would like any thoughts you guys want to throw in here.

[killian96ss]

I've debated running just 2 bottles of water wetter, and distilled water. (I do this in the Xtreme for the Autocross season).

This would give you maximum cooling which I'm sure is why you do it in your Xtreme for auto-x, however I would run some antifreeze in your DD mainly to help prevent corrosion and extend water pump life.

Even for auto-x I would still run a little bit of antifreeze for the same reason above.

Is there any extra heat extraction to be had with the larger radiator? Will I be simply wasting cash to get it, or is it worth while.

I think it is worth it and I'm sure Brule and Reed would agree!

Steve

[2kwik4u]

I thought water wetter was designed to be used without coolant at all, as it had some lubricants in it for pump life reasons....No matter, I doubt I'll go to those extents for the daily unless you guys think it's worth it.

[killian96ss]

I thought water wetter was designed to be used without coolant at all, as it had some lubricants in it for pump life reasons....

To get the coolant temp drop of 30 degrees shown on the bottle you would only mix it with water, but it will work fine with antifreeze also except you won't get that 30 degree drop.

Your mix of 25% antifreeze and 75% water along with 1 bottle of Water Wetter should work pretty good.

Steve

[F9K9]

.......................I think it is worth it and I'm sure Brule and Reed would agree!......................

It all helps and it is all part of a complete solution. The Taurus fan route works fine for many of the 2wds. I sincerely dunno any one answer for our 4 wheel drives. I showed you what a lot of Cherokees do with that hood raising in the rear. It helps them. A Wrangler ( TJ or YJ) doesn't have the problem but, it is the same engine. I'd flush and try 25/75 with water wetter through Sept. I would also remove the weather stripping at the rear of the hood. It's free and worth a try! Keep air on "max" because you're liable to draw the extra hot air into the front vents. You don't wheel often so try removing the front fender gap guards.

I still haven't used AC with our temps but, if you see temps climbing, turn it off and if, temps are getting critical then turn on the heat full blast and you have an extra radiator. A little sweat in a traffic jam beats the heck out of completely overheating.

Wish I was more help to you but, that's the best I can offer for now.

[WVHogRider]

I've been wondering what's been going on with my temps, as well, and was wondering what I could do differently. It has been in the 90's here lately, and I've noticed my temps hovering around 210 with my fan kicking on every now & again. This is with 85% rural highway driving, with very little stop and go traffic. I can actually hit 6 red lights on my way home from work. The temps barely went below 210 yesterday even after I turned the defroster/heat on high for over ten minutes. I put a Jet 180 in last summer.

If you remember, I had a bunch of warranty work done back in the winter, some of which was to replace the gaskets in the top end of the motor due to leakage. I'm thinking the stealer took my 180 out and just replaced everything on the top, but I don't see it marked on my paperwork. I should take that apart to check, before I do a flush/refill.

[HenryJ]

Sounds about normal. You changed the stat, but the fan engagement point remains the same. The temperatures will rise to 230 or so before the fan completely locks.
To keep the temperature down a larger capacity radiator and lower temp fan will be needed.

It is not really overheating until it is puking water. Keep in mind that the stock gauge reads on the high side.

[WVHogRider]

But it didn't do this at all last summer. I watched the gauge constantly last summer and it always hovered around the guestimated 180 to 190 area on the idiot gauge after the Jet 180*. I think they definitely replaced my thermo to a stock one.

[killian96ss]

We had a couple of 100 degree days here recently and my temp gauge never went over the 200 mark, but the fan did lock one or two times in stop and go traffic.

I'm using the Jet 180 degree t-stat, green coolant & distilled water 40/60 mix, and 1 bottle of Water Wetter.

WVHogRider, I wouldn't be surprised if the dealership did replace your t-stat.

They have been know to do things like that without asking or informing the customer.

Since out t-stats are so easy to replace I think it's worth checking.

Steve

[2kwik4u]

Sounds like I'll be picking up a flush/fill kit on the way home, with some Water Wetter, and some AntiFreeze. We'll see how that does. Supposed be to a high of 93* Wednesday, and I have a lake trip planned. We'll see if it stays cool with the boat behind it!

[2kwik4u]

Flushed and filled the truck this evening. I didn't install one of those "kits" I just took the hoses loose, and ran the garden hose through them. Started the truck for a second, and let it pump all the red sludgy type crap outta there. I then re-hooked all the hoses, and started the fill process. Bottle of water wetter went in first, then a gallon of 50/50 premix Prestone that says it works with all coolants. Everything else was filled from my gallon jugs of distilled water. Once it was full I started the truck again, and let it get good and warm and open the thermostat. Continuing to fill the radiator until it wouldn't take anymore. Closed it up and went for a drive. It's now sitting in the drieway cooling some more so I can check the level again here soon.

Hopefully this will cure the overheating problem, although I'm not 100% convinced yet. While it was sitting there idling with the A/C on full blast. The Ambient temp is only ~74* this afternoon, and it was staying cool. ON the test drive I left it in 3rd, and blasted up the street to get some heat in it. It easily climbed up to near the 210 mark on the gauge, however as soon as I let out of the gas it came right back down to near the 180* range. I'm hoping I just don't have it full enough yet, and this will stabilize once I get some more in there.

I'll be sure to report my findings.


For those of you with the Taurus fan. Do you run high all the time, or just low all the time, and high on a switch? I have low coming on with the key, and high on a switch in the cab. So far that seems to be OK, but not great. I really want low on a thermostat, and high on a switch, with all off when the key turns off....Might have to redo that here soon.

[F9K9]

Did we ever know your first name?

Anyway, I don't think you're gonna be happy with the results of your work tonite. My first go round with flushing was with installing the flush kit and draining the radiator. I flushed the h_ll out of it with the engine running and rad cap off and then let it drain out with the front on a downhill slope. I couldn't squeeze 50% of the coolant in there that it requires. The next year I pulled the block plug, had the t-stat out and was absolutely amazed at how much the block held! That was only pulling one block plug because the other one must be under the starter.

It wouldn't take two minutes to pull that rear hood insulation strip to see if it helps and another 2 to reinstall it if, it doesn't! I'll try it on on my next trip too.

[border man]

My fan is constantly locked on. We've had 105+ days here for several weeks now. Apart from killing my A/C, the truck seems to cool fine. It jumps t over 210 whenever I shut her down, but if she's running, the gauge stays beteen about190-210.

[2kwik4u]

Did we ever know your first name?

Anyway, I don't think you're gonna be happy with the results of your work tonite. My first go round with flushing was with installing the flush kit and draining the radiator. I flushed the h_ll out of it with the engine running and rad cap off and then let it drain out with the front on a downhill slope. I couldn't squeeze 50% of the coolant in there that it requires. The next year I pulled the block plug, had the t-stat out and was absolutely amazed at how much the block held! That was only pulling one block plug because the other one must be under the starter.

It wouldn't take two minutes to pull that rear hood insulation strip to see if it helps and another 2 to reinstall it if, it doesn't! I'll try it on on my next trip too.

First name is Mike

I thought about draining the block last night, but just really didn't feel like it ......We'll see how this works out, and go from there. High today is supposed to be in the 90's, and I'm taking the boat to the lake so I should get a decent baramoter of it will work or not.

[2kwik4u]

You called it!!!!

Towed the boat to the lake last night. Had to make one steep pull up a hill for ~5 minutes or so of hard pulling. Temp easily climbed right past 210 with the ambiant only in the 85* range. Once I let out of the gas at the top of the hill, the fan on high quickly brought it back in range (under a minute), but I'd rather it not climb that high to begin with.

Guess I'll be taking my next stash of mod money, and getting a larger/thicker radiator. I think I might investigate moving to LS1 fans as well, as I think the Taurus fan not covering 100% of the radiator might have something to do with it. I've pulled the stripping off near the back of the hood, and thats not a great option for me. The hood looked like it was "moving" more than before. I'm not real enthused at all about that. I might try pulling the under engine shield as well before changing anything else, just to see if that helps any.

[F9K9]

..................... I might try pulling the under engine shield as well before changing anything else, just to see if that helps any.

I don't know about pulling the front "shield", Mike. Seems to me that it's supposed assist in cooling but, I may be wrong Mine was already gone on my XJ when I got it but, it seems to do ok without it. Pulling the upper rad support and making sure it is clean between the rad and condenser is another problem area but, you probably was there when you did the e-fan install.

[killian96ss]

I might try pulling the under engine shield as well before changing anything else, just to see if that helps any.

I don't know about pulling the front "shield", Mike. Seems to me that it's supposed assist in cooling but, I may be wrong

I think he is talking about the front skid plate which if removed would allow more air to flow across the bottom half of the engine, but it's hard to say whether or not that will actually help cool things down more..

Steve

[2kwik4u]

Steve's got it right. I'm referring to the plastic piece you have to reach through to get to the oil filter. So far as I can tell thats the only body work difference between the 2wd, and the 4wd trucks. The other big difference is the front diff up there soaking up, and re-radiating heat. Although I really can't see that being a huge problem.

I might pull it just to see how it reacts.

Cruised around at lunch, and the temps stayed just under the 210* mark with the A/C on full blast, and the ambient temps in the upper 80's (86 when I left work, 89 when I get back). Sitting in the drive-through with the fan on low it started to creep to 210....Flipped the fan on high, and it came back down by the time I was out of line, and back on the road.

I feel I'm REALLY close. It seems to cool back down fairly quickly, but I can't seem to get it to maintain temp worth a crap.

[F9K9]

...............I think he is talking about the front skid plate which if removed would allow more air to flow across the bottom half of the engine, but it's hard to say whether or not that will actually help cool things down more..

Steve

either on the shield door or on the shield it says something about cooling but, my old one is under the shed and to nasty to go look at right now.

[killian96ss]

either on the shield door or on the shield it says something about cooling.

"Door Must Be Closed For Engine Cooling"

Steve

[F9K9]

.............."Door Must Be Closed For Engine Cooling" ......

That is the only reason I brought it up

[2kwik4u]

Thats messed up....I'll have to look at mine at lunchtime.

I might leave the door closed, while the piece is sitting in my garage....Think that will help?

[HenryJ]

Actually its influence in the cooling system may not be so far fetched. Ever hear of installing a piece of plastic sticking straight down from the bottom of the radiator to improve cooling?
Exactly the same concept as the spoiler used on the back of a stock car. Air flowing over this "spoiler" creates a low pressure zone behind it. The piece under the radiator helps to draw air through the radiator.

The front steering shield may serve to function similarly.

[killian96ss]

Ever hear of installing a piece of plastic sticking straight down from the bottom of the radiator to improve cooling?
The front steering shield may serve to function similarly.

While this is true on a lot of vehicles it doesn't serve this purpose at all on our trucks.

If you look under the truck and study the design you will see that the shield in no way helps create airflow for the radiator.

If there was a direct passage for air to be pushed towards and through the radiator cooling fins by a low pressure zone then yes the shield might have some influence on cooling, but on our trucks there are no cooling ducts or air passages for this to work.

As far as I can see the only airflow the shield may create is over the oil filter assembly and possibly the lower half of the engine, although I would think that removing the shield would allow more total airflow in this area.

Steve

[2kwik4u]

Lots of theories being tossed out....all of them makes sense. I'll pull the cover tonight without changing anything else, and report back the results.

[2kwik4u]

More cornfuzing data this afternoon.

Went out to lunch with a group of people from work. FIVE people in the bus this time. Had the A/C cranked on max with the blower at 4 the ENTIRE trip. ~25 minutes each direction. I figured the truck would be working hard the entire time, so I flipped the eFan on high as soon as we got moving. 1/2 city, 1/2 highway driving, with a few stoplights in the 4-5 minute range. Temp never got to 210* the whole time. A/C was ice cold in about 4-5 minutes, and the cab cooled down quickly. Ambient temp according to the overhead console was 94*.

Looks like I'm close to keeping the truck cool if I can keep the fan on high, and get a head start on it. I think in the next week or three I'll get a hold of a larger radiator.

[2kwik4u]

Found the Proliance radiator at Rockauto.com for $148 or so....that sound about right?

[F9K9]

Found the Proliance radiator at Rockauto.com for $148 or so....that sound about right?

Yes it does, Mike. Mine was 160 or 170 delivered.

[2kwik4u]

More updates to my cooling adventure.......Posted from the parents house in Oak Creek (Milwaukee) Wisconsin.

Fiday afternoon I leave the office ~4pm. It's 89* outside, and I'm headed on a road trip with my little sister to bring her home from visiting the family in Kentucky, so I run the A/C. Knowing that the cooling system needs a head start I have the fan on high with the A/C going.....Everything is going great for the first 40 minutes or so. Even sat in my Uncles driveway for 15 minutes idling with the A/ on without problems.

The problems started when we decided to finally get going. About 2 miles from my Uncles house in stop and go traffic, the breaker blew for the fan. I had to cut off a few people, and shoot over to the shoulder to keep from overheating badly (it climbed quickly past 210). I popped the hood, and got the circuit breaker reset, and turned the heater on for a few minutes with the motor running to get the temps back down to under 210.

We continued through the rest of the traffic in the heat with the windows down, and the fan on low. Truck stayed nice and cool until we got movign good, and could assume that 55+mph cruising speeds were enough to keep it cool with the A/C on. What a PIA....and it agrivated me to no end.

SOOOOO.....I'm now on the lookout for a nice set of dual fans. Something that doesn't pull as many amps. My circuit breaker is typically used in audio systems. It's rated to hold 30 amps continuous, and 50 amp spikes. It's worked well in all the other s-series applications I've put it in, including my 4cyl Xtreme.....I'm quickly learning that for some reason the second gen 4wd 4.3/auto combos are creating some serious underhood heat.......Should I continue looking for new fans, or should I consider getting some higher amperage rated fuseable links? I have to think it's a matter of the wire getting too warm, and increasing resistance and causing the breaker to blow.

Any thoughts?

[F9K9]

LS1 efans using my zip code in the search

[bwenny247]

ls1 fan on ebay

[HenryJ]

A 30 amp breaker is not enough. Taurus fans are reported to draw in excess of 50 amps.
Your voltage may be dropping causing some of the problem too. The system has to be drawing in excess of 75 amps with the AC on and fans running.
Canceling the DRL and any accessories might help a little.
If the truck doesn't stay cool at highway speeds the radiator is not of sufficient size to handle the transfer of heat to the air. There should be plenty of air available.
A switch to the larger radiator would help in this area.

Nothing will cool like the crank driven fan. If heating is going to be a problem, going back is the cheapest way to fix the problem.
I would be tempted to try an Explorer fan for a quieter fan that is reported to offer some performance improvements. They should be cheap at a salvage yard.

Will LS1 fans work? Yes, but with a bigger alternator, radiator, cowl hood, bodylift, and compatible climate. I don't know how many of these things contribute to the success I have had. That all adds up to quite a few mods and dollars.
Is it worth it for what you do with your truck?

If going back to the stock fan is not what you want to do, how about being the guinea pig for the Explorer fan? I am very curious as to how it would work.

[2kwik4u]

Are those LS1 fans twin dual speed fans? Or are they twin single speed fans.

If they are twin dual speed fans, there are a myriad of ways to control them, If they are twin single speed fans, that would make deciding how to control them a ton easier.

I'm guessing since I quickly got two responses on where to find LS1 fans, that is the prefereed choice over upgrading the wiring on my Taurus fan.

[F9K9]

They are not dual speed fans but, with a variable speed controller they start out at 60% IIRC.

[HenryJ]

LS1 fans are indeed single speed. The VSC softens the load delivered to the alternator.

Personally I would do your best to upgrade what you have and see if that will work. Remember that low voltage will cause heat too. Your alternator can not be providing what is needed.
At best it might deliver 100 amps when hot. Over 50 amps of that is just the stock systems. With fans and AC you have it maxed for sure. I doubt it will maintain 12 volts. That slows the fans speed by at least 20%. Now add the increased resistance of the heated wiring and how much air are you pushing now?

I don't know about your install, but the Taurus fan was designed to cool a V-6. The LS1 fans a V-8. Dual fans cover more area directly. They have the potential to pull more air. The shroud may fit the radiator better for complete coverage.
I think there are many benefits.

[2kwik4u]

Sounds like I need to continue upgrading parts. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a set of LS1 fans, and I might go ahead and spring for the Nelson Performanec harness, and a tune from a friend to let the stock PCM control them.

Thanks again for the info and guidance fellas......Been around S-series for the better part of 8 years now, and still feel like I'm floundering around with this one

[F9K9]

.....Been around S-series for the better part of 8 years now, and still feel like I'm floundering around with this one

I don't know what it is, Mike. I do not recall doing anything to my '97 ZR2 in 7 years other than an alternator dying. I never had a cooling problem with it one time.

[2kwik4u]

More and More updates on the saga that has become of my cooling project.......

Removed the front lower shield this afternoon after work. Took the truck to the lake with the boat attached. Ambient temps are in the high 80's low 90's according to the overhead console. Temps climbed RIGHT PAST 210 on both of the long uphill climbs on the way there. Recovery back to "normal" wasn't any faster or slower than before. I really don't think the shield has any bearing at all on the temps judging from this afternoons experiments.

I did look at the wiring on my fan though while I was getting gas. I have the wires, and one of the relays wire tired to the "webbing" that is on the back side of the fan. I'm going to go out here in a few (after I drink a beer and relax for a minute) and move those wires so that hot air isn't blowing on them constantly. Perhaps that will help a little, and allow me to run the fan on high for longer than 10minutes without blowing the breaker. I'm also contemplating simply adding a larger fuse (perhaps a 40amp Maxi-Fuse), and seeing how that does. I also have a spare fan laying around that I might try later this week. It's currently installed in the Xtreme, however since I blew the motor on that truck, it's just been sitting around anyway.

The more and more I think about it, the more and more I come to the conclusion that the capacity simply isn't there. It has me TOTALLY baffled as there are a plethora of other S-Series vehicles with equal or greater load on the cooling system, that don't have these problems (Or perhaps they don't have as demanding owners, and do have the problems but the others don't know/care to address it?). Looking over my budget this evening, I'm hoping to get the cash set aside towards the end of the month to get a larger radiator (unless I convince the better half I need it before then, and she requisitions the money for it ahead of time). I'm going to need it if we intend to make it to the lake once the REAL heat and humidity set in next month.

I'm also seriously considering the LS1 fans. As much as I've touted the Taurus fan in the past, I think I'm going to have to give it the "heave ho" on this project. It's just simply NOT performing to the level I want/need it to. If I could get it to run for any length of time, I think it might do OK......just that though OK, not exceptional, or stupendous, or any other word that is anything more than OK.

:sigh:.....I need a beer!

[F9K9]

Brule seems to me "somewhat" satisfied with his set up. I have not had problems this year but, I drive the CC very little because I am working on things on the XJ.

I did have concerns last year! I do know that I was still searching for solutions during last year's temps. Cowl hood @ $550 (that was with paint and not counting time and gas for a 6 hr round trip), $200 (+) for the alternator (I could find the actual costs but, I am just tossing out low numbers), LS1 E-fans ($100, plus ebay shipping), Flex-a-lite Variable Speed Controller (am guessing at around $90 from summit).

Add it up and not counting a lot of wiring, shipping and handling, your time and I get a VERY conservative $940!

I even forgot the extra capacity radiator ($160), plus coolant plus labor. Then' there was all the time searching for the correct belt after my alternator upgrade. It's crap like this that I can afford to mess with but, maybe you shouldn't.

It's all about priorities and your search for answers.

I had to spend 8 hrs in a boat when I was assigned to that stuff and the lake has no attraction to me now. Boats equal towing or paying upwards to $3K for marina fees here. 8 hrs in a uniform and body armor is just not fun. I had the additional work load of making sure my/your K9 was ok constantly.

All we can do is provide input.

As I said before, only you can make the call. I hope my input helped just a little.

[HenryJ]

Did I mention that no one has tried the 1993-1997 Explorer fans? Performance? Mileage? Cooling?

I think the key is the larger radiator. Start there.

[2kwik4u]

You guys have certainly been a ton of help.....I like the truck, and it tows the boat well with the exception of the cooling issues.

I know all about spending WAY more money on a project than it's worth. I've got ~$700 in my front brake setup on the Xtreme, and it's just an upgrade to better GM components.

Current plan is to keep both this boat, and truck for at least another 4 years. I don't mind spending the cash on it to make it perform the way I want. I'm just agitated at hitting roadblocks more often than I'm used to. I feel as if I should know this kind of stuff already......

I'll pull the cash togethor this month for a new larger radiator, and see where that lands me.

[F9K9]

.........I'll pull the cash togethor this month for a new larger radiator, and see where that lands me.

Don't forget Brule's luck at reselling the stock radiator. I can't imagine us with that luck but, it will cut the costs significantly!

[2kwik4u]

Good call......I hadn't thought of that, however I might try and list it on eBay once the new one is in.

Today trip to the lake was an excercise in frustration for me. In terms of both the ZR5, and the boat.

The crew just wouldn't stay cool. With ambient temps in the low 90's (91-93 average according to the overhead console). The coolant temps would blow right past 210 and arrive NEAR 235 when pulling the boat uphill with 3 others in the truck. The downhill side of the hill wouldn't cool the truck as much as the uphill side was heating it. Coming home we almost got stuck in a rainstorm.....if that had happened I would've had to pull off and wait, hot truck with 3 girls is NOT somewhere I want to be for very long. The A/C on the flats would EASILY pull the temps up to the 235 range.......

Of course once I got the boat on the water, I got a few sets in, then the girls got some time on the tube. Some friends from TN show up at the marina, and the boat immediately develops a miss .....so much so it wouldn't even get on plane.

Yet another road block to deal with....Just what I needed

[2kwik4u]

Another fun update......

Local F-body recycling place has the LS1 Fans for $75 if I come get em. Seems about the same price as eBay, only without the shipping. I think I'm going to pickup a set this weekend, and get them installed ASAP.

On the installation, are you guys running the stock shroud? I'm torn between leaving the stock shroud on there, or deleting it and fabrication a nice radiator mount for the top, and trimming the lower shroud. Any thoughts on this?!?!?

What about current draw? Has anyone measured the LS1 fans? My hope here is that I accomplish TWO things with this setup. The first is to get more coverage on the radiator with fans, helping to keep more air flowing, and thus better cooling. The other is to keep from blowing my 30A breaker all the time. If I split each fan on it's own breaker with it's own set of relays, I would think I could split the load down enough to keep the breakers happy. I know the overall load on the alternator is still going to be higher, but I'll be upgrading that alternator soon anyway.

Had a buddy "talk me off the ledge" this morning about trading the crew in. He asked how much I was looking at spending to get the overheating issue fixed. I said $900 roughly once it's all said and done. He spent 15 minutes giving me a ton of reasons that I should fix the problem areas instead of trading it, most of them financial.....Reed's been PM'ing me as well with "word of encouragement"....You guys rock!

[F9K9]

This might help you out LS! E-Fans

[2kwik4u]

This might help you out LS! E-Fans

Let me guess.....a search provided that?!?!..I'm such a slacker in those regards.

Almost perfect information. The only thing missing is how he wired the fans. I see the VSC has a place for fan positive and negative. Did you simply run BOTH fans to this in parallel? Or did you jumper the negative from one to the positive of the other to put them in series. I've forgotten alot of my electronics theory of the last few years it seems, however I would guess it to be in parallel?!?!?

I like the radiator support setup. I'll probably do something similar. No mention of what he did to the lower shroud though? Still stock?!?

*edit*.....I re-read, and looked at the pics this time. I got it finally!! Looks like the lower shroud comes out, and I cut some hold in the bottom lip to accept some fabbed tabs!.....

[F9K9]

Slots are already there. You'll see them when you remove the lower shroud. Good time to replace the hoses too.

Edit

The same search would have found this thread where I have pioneered the way for being clueless performing the mod

[HenryJ]

I don't know if it was mentioned in this thread...the stock temperature gauge reads about 10° warmer than the water temperature sensor.
I think they tend to read on the high side for safety's sake.
It is not hot until it boils over.

[2kwik4u]

I really appreciate the help guys......I saw the other thread brought back to the top of the heap, and I'll go read it here shortly.

Tonight I removed the Taurus fan altogethor, and went back to the stock clutch fan. Took me all of 15 minutes to de-install the eFan, and get the stocker back on there. After some more thinking, and some more reasoning I started to believe that if the Taurus fan can't run on high, it isn't going to pull enough air to keep me cool. The Taurus fan doesn't cover enough of the radiator, and on low doesn't pull nearly enough air on the remaining portion it does cover to make up for it. I also believe it becomes more of a blockage at highway speeds than the stock fan does. The decision is also based slightly on available finances, and the number of projects I have. The Xtreme needs a motor, the Boat needs ignition, and the bus needs cooling mods. The crew lost in that battle, and while the Taurus fan MIGHT work, I'm tired of being worried about if the fan has blown the breaker or not. I can't trust it to keep spinning 100% of the time. When I'm in business clothes at a business lunch, thats not something I want to be pulling over to check every so often. And not running the A/C in that position (in shirt and tie) is not an option either, I don't want to show up at meetings smelling and looking like I just out of a sauna.

For reference the temps on the way home from work (~10mile drive in mostly 45mph zones) were around 210 with the fan on low, and the A/C on max. Ambient was 92* according to the overhead console. AFTER I went back to the stocker, I drove into downtown to help a friend with her drum brakes on her '99 Ranger (long story). Mostly 35 and 45 zones, with the same 90-91* ambient temps. Coolant temps varied from 180-195ish. It started to creep at the major intersection where I had to sit for two lights, and about 11 minutes total. As soon as it came back up to 45mph it held firm, and started to SLIGHTLY creep back down.

I'm going to stick with this for a week or two or at least until I get a chance to tow the boat in some good heat to see how it does. I suspect the water wetter, and 180* stat will at least give me a better head start as compared to stock, however I don't expect them to work miracles. The newer larger radiator is still on the list to get put in before August. The LS1 fans are also on the list, as I liked the ~1mpg I gianed, the throttle response, and the lack of dump-truck-esque noises as well.

I'm also considering reversing my decision to put the trans cooler after the stock in radiator cooler. While I still contend that lower temps are better, I'm wondering how much load that takes off the stock cooling system. Pretty much everyone here with the exception of myself subscribes to the before stock cooler theories, and I'm curious if anyone has ever tested that against coolant temps. It would be a somewhat easy conversion for me, and I might go ahead and do that before the larger radiator just to observe what happens. In the end I'll agree that no matter where you put it in the system, it's better than stock!

One last thing. I want to describe my "idea" of overheating. I've seen it mentioned several times that I'm not really overheating until it's puking coolant. It's yet to do that on me. So TEHCNICALLY, I'm not overheating. With that said, I personally don't like to see anything over 210 on the gauge. I feel that even 210 is a bit on the high side. While towing the higher coolant temps lead to spark knock, and we all know thats NEVER a good thing. With a 100% stock truck I observed amost 5* of knock on a 95* day when I still had my scantool. That was under VERY light load (just me in the truck with 1/4 tank of gas). I can't imagine what the spark knock must show on stock trucks pulling a load. I'm trying to avoid that like the plague. I feel VERY strongly that my little 2.2 lasted as long as it did, but keeping the coolant temps in check, and keeping it from knocking. I'd like to think I can do the same with my 4.3.

Thats enough of a novel for tonight, I'm off to read more threads on efans, electrical, and cooling mods...OH MY!!!

[HenryJ]

Going back to stock was a wise choice. Nothing pulls like the stock fan. I have been trying to get you to try an Explorer fan for the throttle response , quieter design and maybe a little better mileage.
It might just work. They should be cheap at the salvage yard.
I too think the 180° stat gives you a head start, but the fan engagement needs to match it better.

Engine temps run hotter for a complete burn and better emissions. Running a little further from the edge is not a bad idea. Check out the thread on thermostatic theories for the optimum performance and wear curves.

[2kwik4u]

Got a link to any applicable explorer fan threads (I'm all searched out this evening)......I might consider it if it engages sooner, and is quiter overall. I'm all for investigating newer, less expensive options.

*edit*

I'm a dummy....must be the 11pm and two beers......It's right on the top of the heap.

This sounds like an EXCELLENT test for me. Buddy at work just replaced his stock clutch fan on his '94 ranger with the 4.0 engine. Not sure that it cured his cooling issue, and I could probably grab that fan for CHEAP from him. Hell he might let me try it for FREE!!! He's on vacation until Monday, so I'll report back as soon as I talk to him about it.

*edit x 2*

I also didn't realize that the larger radiator was also more fins per inch. I'd be willing to bet this is more of the reason than the extra thickness. I feel even better about getting ahold of this thing now....All in due time though, too many mods too fast leaves me with an empty checkbook

[border man]

Is the explorer fan a direct replacement? or does it need to be modified to fit?

[HenryJ]

It looks to be a "bolt on" replacement. No modifications needed.
It is one inch smaller in diameter , which is not an improvement. It sits further back. Tighter to the engine exposing more of the blades. That may be an advantage. The blades design are quieter.

If you want to improve fuel-mileage and performance, a fan clutch assembly from a 1993-1997 Ford Explorer with the 4.0 V6 can be installed into the 1996-2004 S-10 trucks with the 4.3 V6. The Ford fan assembly is more efficient, and much quieter, but slightly less powerful than the S-10 fan assembly. This fan assembly is 18" in diameter (compared to 19" for the stock S-10 fan). The Ford unit weighs about 1-1/4 lbs less than the 4.3 V6 fan assembly.

The Ford fan clutch is 1 inch shorter than the S-10 fan clutch, and it positions the fan about 1/2" closer to the engine, which improves efficiency in the S-10 Truck by placing the fan blade behind the "ring" section of the shroud. The stock S-10 fan blade protrudes forward of the "ring" and some of the air is thrown off the front of the blade and back into the sides of the shroud -- decreasing efficiency.

This is the Ford Explorer fan installed into the S-10. It may appear slightly "undersize" in the shroud, but it does a very good job of cooling the S-10. When used with the Heavy-Duty replacement radiator, the engine will not run hot, even when the outside temperature is over 105°F.

I really hope you get a chance to try it. I would be interested to see the results.

[2kwik4u]

I really hope you get a chance to try it. I would be interested to see the results.

I'm super excited about it to be honest.

I'm currently in a position where I only have so much cash to throw at "projects". I'm sure all of us can relate to that, so I won't elaborate any further. The point being, if I can find a solution to keep the truck cool, while towing with the A/C on (at this point I'd almost settle for just cool while towing) without spending $1k in a series of modifications, I'd be tickled pink!!!

I'm still convinced an electric will pull more air than a clutch fan, even when locked, and especially at idle. HOWEVER, you simply can't beat the clutch fan for reliability IMO. Aside from the clutch failing, or the fan spinning off (both have happened to me on my '00 4cyl), there is very little to go wrong with the setup.

I'll run the clutch fan this weekend. I won't be towing, but the ambient is forcasted to be in the mid 90's for Sunday and Monday with 80%+ humidity. The official high yesterday was 89*, and the overhead told me 92* on several occasions. I'll be sure to let you guys know how it goes....SO far on my drive into the gym, and then into work this morning in the low 60* ambient air. The truck was VERY cool, which I expected.

[HenryJ]

I'm still convinced an electric will pull more air than a clutch fan, even when locked, and especially at idle...

At idle speeds maybe. Off idle there is no way the electrics can keep up. They just can not match the horsepower that the engine provides.
Look at it this way. If you free up even one horsepower by going electric, that means you were using one horsepower for cooling. To match that you need two half horsepower fans or one one horsepower fan. That is just not going to happen.
Some estimates have the engine driven fan pulling as much as five horse. How about mounting a pair of two and a half horse motors to drive fans up there

Can electrics meet the demands? I think so. Will they match the amount of air moved by a clutch fan , with the engine running at peak horsepower? No.

I still think you will need the larger radiator to make it work. The stock one is just too small.

[2kwik4u]

At idle speeds maybe. Off idle there is no way the electrics can keep up. They just can not match the horsepower that the engine provides.
Look at it this way. If you free up even one horsepower by going electric, that means you were using one horsepower for cooling. To match that you need two half horsepower fans or one one horsepower fan. That is just not going to happen.
Some estimates have the engine driven fan pulling as much as five horse. How about mounting a pair of two and a half horse motors to drive fans up there

Can electrics meet the demands? I think so. Will they match the amount of air moved by a clutch fan , with the engine running at peak horsepower? No.

I still think you will need the larger radiator to make it work. The stock one is just too small.

I agree and disagree.....

You're totally disregarding any efficiency levels inherent in the design of a clutch fan versus an electric fan. I'd wager to bet the stock fan is close to a 5hp drain on the motor. I'd bet further that it takes 1hp to keep the alternator charging, and another 1hp to move the air with an electric motor. Leaving a net 3hp gain from moving to an overall more efficient system. It's not a direct hp to hp comparison when changing systems in this manner. As another example, I deal with drawer slides on a daily basis. The pull force on a set of euro slides is about 25-30% higher than a set of ball bearing slides. They both move the drawer the same distance, but the ball bearing slides are significantly more efficient at it. I feel there are similar efficiencies to be gained from moving to an electric fan setup. however it needs to be as efficient or more efficient than the stock clutch fan to see improvements....I've obviously found through trial and error that the Taurus fan just won't work in this application, however I'll continue to run it in the Xtreme, it's a HUGE gain in that application! You've found the LS1 fans to be more efficient than the stocker, so you're running them. I have a feeling I will to in short order.

I do agree that it's going to take a larger radiator before I'm happy with the system overall. I'm going to take some time this weekend, and reroute the trans cooler lines, and see if I can take some more load off the cooling system, by putting it before the radiator. I'm not a huge fan of reheating the trans fluid, but I need to see if that is contributing to the heat buildup in the radiator.

[2kwik4u]

Spent another 15 minutes sitting in a drive-thru this afternoon, and then another 20 minutes sitting with the engine idling and the A/C on "truck dining" with a friend at lunch.

Temps climbed SLOWLY to 210, then held steady there. Ambient was between 91, and 93 on the overhead. It appears the water wetter, and low temp stat are helping SOME, but not enough.

I've got my fingers crossed for the Explorer fan!!

[HenryJ]

The stock clutch does not fully engage until 235 degrees.
If it is not roaring it is not yet locked.
I hope the Exploder fan engages sooner.

[2kwik4u]

The stock clutch does not fully engage until 235 degrees.
If it is not roaring it is not yet locked.
I hope the Exploder fan engages sooner.

I hope so as well. The stocker wasn't engaged at all whilst sitting this afternoon. Even when unlocked it's obviously pulling at least as much air as that Taurus fan was on low, possibly more.

[2kwik4u]

Buddy at work is back from Vacation. He says I can have the fan FREE O' CHARGE!!! He did comment though that the plastic fan is cracked slightly. I figure it'll be OK to test with, and if it works out, I'll spring the cash for a new one.

I did drive around with the stocker in there yesterday for ~2.5hrs looking at Trailblazers, Tahoes, and CrewCab Silverado's. Ambient was between 94 and 96. Truck stayed under or at 210 the entire time with the A/C on except for a small little push over 210 while sitting in the DQ drive-thru. I heard the fan lock though as we were pulling out, and it quickly brought it back to the 210 range on the gauge. I have a feeling if the fan locked at 235, then my gauge actually reads a little LOWER than actual temps.

Here's to hoping the Explorer fan helps out!

[2kwik4u]

I have the fan and clutch in my hands!!!

I was thinking of hooking up the boat, and heading to the lake (13miles) and back to watch the temps with the stocker on there. Then swapping them out, and making the same run again to compare. Since today is the last 95* day we are going to have for at least a week. At the same time, thats 1/2 tank of gas and about $25 that I don't really want to just waste. I'm sure there will be more 95* days.......I'm torn......

I'll at least have some initial driving impressions tonight, as well as some pics for you guys!

[HenryJ]

Nice!
I'll probably try to split this out for a new mod thread.

[2kwik4u]

Splitting the topic sounds like a good idea.

New fan from the Ranger/Explorer is installed. It went on without much to-do really. I took it for a short test drive and have a few immediate observations.

Noise:
It's easily just as loud as the stocker when locked. Even when seemingly unlocked it would be loud initially until ~1500rpm or so, then would quit down to a level I couldn't hear over the rest of the engine Keep in mind I have 100% STOCK exhaust, and only the K&N FIPK to make more noise than the fan. You guys with louder exhausts might not ever hear it.

Lockup point:
It "seemed" to lockup just before the 210 mark on the gauge. This is significantly lower than the stocker locked up yesterday which was right below the 235 mark. Potentially a good thing, however it didn't seem to be very consistent. Almost as if when actually driving in the 25-30mph range (my short 10 mile test drive) if the revs were held higher by using 1st or 2nd gear the fan wouldn't lockup. Kind of like the motor was overpowering the clutch in the fan. Not sure if this is an issue or not.

Installation:
Goes on JUST like the stocker. The only issue I had was my wrench was ALMOST too wide to go between the bolts on the water pump pulley, and giant nut in the center of the pulley for the fan. I've been told they offer a loaner tool at AutoZone for free if you need it. Overall it was still only a 30 minute install, and that includes the 2 beers I drank while chatting with neighbors (They're very intrigued by all the work I do on cars around here).

OVERALL:...........
I'm not sure yet. It's just going to take some time to see how it works out. I'm going to fill up in the morning, and will keep an eye on mileage over the next few tanks and let you guys know how it has worked out. I don't expect a gain; in fact I almost expect it to go down slightly since the fan will most likely be locked more often than not at this point. We shall see though.

I have some pics uploading, and you'll see that the cracks were pretty severe in the fan itself. I didn't want to spend any cash on this unless it turns out to work well. If it does turn out for the best, then I'll spend the cash on the new plastic fan portion. I'd be willing to do a full write up (although I suck at web page fabrication) and include the pictures I have uploading now....That is if you guys want it.

[2kwik4u]

Pics are up....Hope they are helpfull to some.

This link should load thumbnails so even the dialup guys might want to try it. I can email any desired pics in larger (1600x1200) resolution if anyone wants them.

ZR5 with Explorer Fan Installed

[F9K9]

Brule will add it to the mod section if, he deems it useful and there is no need to build a page.

Today we hit 97° and I didn't go over 210° in traffic and had the AC on. So far, so good with my set up However, I am not towing. We need to hear more from that new dude that has towed the camper everywhere. I can't believe he is pure stock.

[HenryJ]

Brule will add it to the mod section if, he deems it useful and there is no need to build a page.

I will do what I can when time permits.

[bwenny247]

had a thought today, and i'm not sure how practical or efficient or applicable it would be, but have you thought about using exhaust wrap on the manifolds (and perhaps further back) in an attempt to reduce underhood temps. seems to make sense that if you can keep the radiant heat down in the engine bay that might help with some cooling.

somehow i was dreaming about modding my truck and with 6 degrees of seperation i ended up thinking about your cooling issues

[2kwik4u]

I have thought of that.....I've actually considered putting JBA's on there, and having them Ceramic coated beforehand for that very reason. Not sure if it would help at all, but might be worth a try eh?.....an expensive try, but a try none-the-less.

A little more reporting on the issue at hand though.......I towed the boat to the lake tonight to see if the repairs I made to it helped at all. The trow there and back was a mandatory A/C because my grandfather was with us, and doesn't handle the heat so well. The trip there, where the truck was semi-cool when I left was OK. The last really big hill finally pushed the temp past 210, however it recovered much quicker than with the eFan, and I could hear the fan locked while we were decending to the ramp. The trip home I saw the temps hover on the higher side of 210 the entire way (~13miles) with the A/C on. The ambient temps were in the low 80's I'm concerned that if the temps had been closer to mid 90's I'd have had some problems with the A/C on......The fan certainly doesn't seem to be the magic snake oil type fix I had hoped it to be, however I do like that it locks sooner, and more often. I can often hear it locked when pulling away from a stoplight until the motor revs to ~2k rpm or so, and then it quiets up.

I had a thought this afternoon at work while designing an adapter plate to mate an Ecotec engine to a NV1500 transmission (another project I have in the works). I wonder if there would be any benefit to putting the stock fan on the explorer clutch. It should be a fairly simple adapter plate to make it happen, and then you could have the larger fan, with the lower temp lockup of the explorer clutch. If there's some interest from a couple people here I can do the design, and fabricate a couple samples to see how it works out.....Any thoughts?

In the end, it looks like that Proliance radiator is still on my list of stuff to get, and soon. According to my predicted budget, I should be able to swing it here in a week or two. Just in time for August to hit!

[gcgordon]

I purchased a radiator, fan clutch, hypertech 160 degree thermostat & water pump before I changed the cap which only costed $6.00, which finally solved the problem.