Mystery noise saga - torque converter - transmission removal

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:47 pm

Edited title and moving to drivetrain forum- HJ

Anyone have a torque converter go bad yet?

It's been a busy day. After taking my drive shafts off, tearing down the tcase into every little piece that can be apart, I find out there is nothing wrong with it and everything is as tight as can be. But when I turn the tranny output shaft, there is still a squeaking noise, so I think it's the tranny. After researching the Internet a while and pondering if I should get buy a Jasper tranny or rebuild mine, I go in the garage to get all organized to put my tcase all back together, etc. I sit and stare at my tranny, and turn the shaft some more. Low and behold, I notice that the noise is very strong coming from the bell-housing of the front of the tranny. I think from there, I jumped up and down with joy. Because if that's all it is, replacement is a breeze compared to rebuilding a tranny, and much cheaper than buying a replacement tranny. So off I got to put the tcase all back together and to get ready to pull my tranny off the truck. I hope that's it, cause I don't want to memorize any other parts of the truck. I think I can do the tcase in my sleep now. lol

Also, this sound like it agrees with my problem:

TORQUE CONVERTER PROBLEMS
The torque converter is the fluid coupling between the engine and
transmission. If the transmission is making noise in gear, but the noise goes away when it is shifted into neutral, the problem may be worn needle bearings in the torque converter. Needle bearings are used inside the torque converter to separate the stator from the impeller, the stator from the turbine, and the turbine from the converter housing.

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/bf/bf90222.htm

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:58 pm

I just had a 4L60E in a fullsize dump the needle bearings in the planetary. It made a real mess of things. There was no noise and only a slip in OD that signaled its demise.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:31 pm

If your TC has gone bad and put any material in the system you will have to replace the TC and transmission.

Usually but not always when a TC goes bad it contaminates the whole system which is why everything must be replaced.

Your best bet would be to take your truck to a well known transmission shop in your area and have them properly diagnose the problem so you don't end up wasting any money.

Maybe you will get lucky.

Steve

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:42 pm

killian96ss wrote:If your TC has gone bad and put any material in the system you will have to replace the TC and transmission. ..................

This has to be an oversight of yours. I know you better than that. There is no connection between the two. You have told me before that synthetic is ok in the TC but, not in the tranny.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:46 pm

TC in this context , Torque Converter

Transfer case can be called TC sometimes too. Kind of confusing.

F9K9 · Post by **F9K9** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:14 pm

HenryJ wrote:TC in this context , Torque Converter

Transfer case can be called TC sometimes too. Kind of confusing.

The blonde is definitely coming off on me from Mrs Hoff. No one would believe today's latest chapter

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:16 pm

killian96ss wrote:If your TC has gone bad and put any material in the system you will have to replace the TC and transmission.

Usually but not always when a TC goes bad it contaminates the whole system which is why everything must be replaced.

Your best bet would be to take your truck to a well known transmission shop in your area and have them properly diagnose the problem so you don't end up wasting any money.

Maybe you will get lucky.

Steve

I dropped the pan and the magnet is very clean (did oil/filter change about 20k miles ago). I don't see how it can contaminate the oil, since the TC is in the front and runs dry, there is a seal between the bell housing and trans. And why take it to a tranny specialist for a TC problem? Even if the tranny is bad, I was planning to rebuild it with a rebuild kit. If that don't work, at worst I woulda had to buy a rebuilt or remanufactured one, which is still going to be way cheaper than the so-called "experts". And how do this save money??? I haven't spent a dime yet, well, maybe a few dollars on RTV to put my tcase back together. The so-called experts would really have me wasting money. They tend to screw things up more than anything.

I got my tcase back together now getting ready to drop the tranny. Never had to replace a TC, so I'm just wing'n it. I disconnected all the exhaust mounts and took the clutch fan off. Now just figuring what else is going to be in the way of dropping it low enough to get to the top bolts. I am guessing I will need to take the Y-pipe off and maybe take the engine mounts out. Ugh.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:41 am

I take that back, there is fluid inside the TC, but not surrounding it. So the tranny could get contaminated. Guess I am lucky so far. I'm wondering, I guess a tranny cooler would help extend the TC life also? Dunno if it gets much circulation though, since it just spins around in constant centrifugal force.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:43 am

So where can I get a bullet proof TC? And since I wheel it and stock motor, I don't really want to go hight in stall speed. Actually lower may be better in my case?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:04 am

The TC does have fluid in it and it does circulate fluid as well.

If the fluid is clean and there is no material on the magnet then I would say you are probably ok as far as contamination.

I take it you don't like tranny shops.

I was only suggesting to have them do a diagnostic on the tranny which some shops like AAMCO do for free.

They do hate it though when you get a free diagnostic and then don't have any work done.

If you plan on rebuilding your own tranny I would suggest you get a complete overhaul kit that includes extra clutches for the 3-4 pack.

I would also install a new corvette 2nd gear servo along with a Transgo shift kit.

The shift kit when properly installed can nearly double the life of the tranny not to mention the shifting will be much better at part and wide open throttle.

Transgo make the best shift kit for the 4L60E, so don't waste your time with any other brand.

The Transgo kit does take longer to install than the others, but is is well worth it since it covers several problematic areas of the 4L60E.

You should not have to remove the engine mounts to get the tranny out.

Before you take out the trans to engine bolts on the bell housing make sure you remove the 3 TC to flexplate bolts.

A flexplate turning wrench really helps since you have to rotate it a couple times to get those 3 bolts out.

Summit sells a wrench like this for only $20.

The stock TC on the 4.3L S10 is already a high stall unit (1800-2100 rpm).

Most other stock TC's are like (1400-1600 rpm).

How much are you willing to spend on a new TC.

The reason I ask is because the best TC's are about $600-$800, but you can get a good one for about $300-$400.

I wouldn't go much lower than stock on the stall speed because the 4.3 does not have much low end torque and this is why GM used such a high stall TC for a stock vehicle.

Another thing to remember when installing a new TC is to pour about 2 quarts of ATF into it before installing it onto the tranny.

This will prevent a dry start which can be real bad.

If you tell me how much you want to spend on a new TC then I might be able to make some suggestions.

I have completely rebuilt 3 trannies in the past so if you have any other questions just ask away.

Steve

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:37 am

I dunno which to pick. I know there's got to be quite a selection, but I can't find much doing searches. I wouldn't mind beafing up the tranny, but dunno if I want to mess with something that ain't broke. I think I'll wait till it breaks. I guess I want something that is going to be awsome for slow rock crawling in low range, but still drivable at highway speeds. Maybe too much to ask for. So if you can recomend a brand that will last me the longest, that be great. A couple choices? I emailed TCI, but haven't heard from them yet. I checked Summit, but can't seem to find anything specifically for the 2001 S10. I'm just want something that will last longer than 100k miles, so, price is somewhat a concern but not in place of quality.

Flex plate wrench like this?

So, come on over and help me out, I'll buy pizza and brewski's.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:13 am

quickbiker wrote:I emailed TCI, but haven't heard from them yet.

TCI has good converters.

I've had a few in the past that worked well.

It seems like you would want their Sizzler converter part # 242738 (1700 rpm stall) or possibly their RV/Towing converter part 242820 (1200 rpm stall).

The RV converter with the 1200 stall might be a little too low for your application.

Don't rely too much on my part #'s since there are a few different styles of 4L60E's out there.

TCI should be able to recommend the correct part #.

B&M makes converters, however I have had a few balance problems with their converters in the past.

If it were my truck I would get a custom made converter by Phoenix Transmissions.

I would get something with a 1600 rpm stall like part # PTGM18CHD.

Custom made is the best you can get because they make the converter to work with your current mods and planned usage.

Phoenix Transmissions isn't the only company who makes custom torque converters, but I do have one of their 700R4's with a custom converter in my 88 S10 4x4 Blazer and so far I am very happy with the quality.

I believe Brule has a good tranny shop near him called Oregon Performance Tranmissions.

I don't think they sell transmissions, but they do have a good reputation with the parts they sell.

Flex plate wrench like this?

That style will work, but I like this one better.

So, come on over and help me out, I'll buy pizza and brewski's.

If you didn't live so far away I would gladly help you out.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:15 pm

Not real close, but they did a good job for me on the servos- OPT Oregon Performance Transmission

I agree with the recommendations above. TCI seems to be pretty good, but you may be paying for the name, somewhat?

I have a GER transmission and a couple GER converters. All were custom built for my applications. That was years ago now, so I can't say for sure how customer service is now. They were extremely helpful when I delt with them years ago.
I think they may be closer to you?

Do you have a local transmission shop that could get you a decent converter? They may be able to set you up pretty reasonably.

I wouldn't get too excited about that second flywheel turner. It won't work on the late model 4L60E. The bellhousing encompasses the perimeter and that tool will be useless. The first one might work. I haven't used one though.
Turn the engine over from the front of the crankshaft. Hands on the pulley from above is about the best you can do. Make a reference mark with a paint marker, or have a friend help line up access to the next bolt.
Access for the converter bolts is with the starter removed from that port. Yes , it is a PITA.

The bellhousing bolts can be removed with a universal on a very long extension. I have a 3" extension that does the job. With the transfercase off lower the transmission as far as it will go and use the long extension to get those upper bolts.

I usually pop the dipstick loose and let it hang in place while I remove the transmission.

When you are done you will wish you had a body lift. It makes it much easier

I would suggest adding the servos and longer pin while you are there- Corvette servos
Easy to do with it out and a nice improvement over stock. The additional holding pressure might buy some time for a used transmission?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:44 pm

HenryJ wrote:I wouldn't get too excited about that second flywheel turner. It won't work on the late model 4L60E. The bellhousing encompasses the perimeter and that tool will be useless. The first one might work. I haven't used one though.

You're right Brule, I forgot about the different bell housing on the newer 4L60E's.

The older design is a lot easier to work on, however the full perimeter bell housing design probably adds a lot more strength to the case.

The easiest way to turn the motor/transmission is to first remove the spark plugs (no compression) and use a large 1/2" ratchet or breaker bar on the center crankshaft bolt.

Just make sure you rotate the assembly clockwise to prevent loosening the crankshaft bolt.

Steve

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:52 pm

That works for sure!

It might be a good idea to take a close look at the rear crank seal while you are there. Might be worth thinking about replacing it while you're there.
The starters are very good on brushes, and the drives good too. The weak point is the solenoid. I would replace that while it is out. Those starters are no fun to remove.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:53 pm

OK, sounds like this will be a long job and I'll be taking my time whenever I get time. How come both you are talking about rotating the crank shaft? Is that to get to all the TC bolts? And yea, last night I was thinking about using a bunch of extensions and a universal, ugh. Replacing the main rear seal is a great idea, I will be doing that now that you remind me. That is something that will go some day. Not sure about the other stuff, but solenoid sounds good. And I'll have to research that servo thingy, not sure if that makes sense to me now.

There does look like an smal access hole with a small plate covering it, looks about 3" round on the bottom of the bell housing. I haven't popped it yet to look. Does it just come apart after the bell housing is lose, or I gotta loosen something on the TC?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:04 pm

quickbiker wrote:...How come both you are talking about rotating the crank shaft? Is that to get to all the TC bolts?

Yes. They bolt into the torque converter from the front side of the flywheel/flexplate. Three of them.

And yea, last night I was thinking about using a bunch of extensions and a universal, ugh. Replacing the main rear seal is a great idea, I will be doing that now that you remind me. That is something that will go some day. Not sure about the other stuff, but solenoid sounds good. And I'll have to research that servo thingy, not sure if that makes sense to me now.

Read the thread I linked. Improved holding power for OD, quicker shifts and firmer too. All good things to have. Corvettes get them stock

There does look like an smal access hole with a small plate covering it, looks about 3" round on the bottom of the bell housing. I haven't popped it yet to look. Does it just come apart after the bell housing is lose, or I gotta loosen something on the TC?

It is an inspection hole. Of no use in disassembly I am afraid. I'm not sure why it is really there, but it does allow you to see inside there , I guess

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:14 pm

GM Data wrote:Transmission Replacement
Removal Procedure

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
2. Raise and support the vehicle.
3. Drain the transmission fluid if necessary.
4. Remove the rear propeller shaft.
5. Support the transmission with a transmission jack.
6. Remove the nuts securing the transmission mount to the transmission support.
7. Remove the nuts and bolts securing the transmission support to the frame.
8. Raise the transmission slightly and remove the transmission support from the vehicle.
9. Remove the exhaust crossover pipe assembly.
10. Lower the transmission to gain access to the top and sides of the transmission.
11. Remove the transmission mount bolts.
12. Remove the transmission mount.
13. Remove the transfer case.
14. Remove the shift cable end from the transmission shift lever ball stud and the pan rail bracket.
15. Remove the transmission heat shield.
16. Disconnect the transmission vent hose, the park/neutral position switch connector, and the main electrical connector from the transmission.
17. Remove the bolt that secures the fuel line bracket to the left side of the transmission.
18. Remove the torque converter access plug.
19. Remove the starter motor to gain access to the torque converter bolts.
20. Remove the flywheel to torque converter bolts. Use care not to drop the bolts into the bell housing.
21. Disconnect the transmission oil cooler lines from the transmission.
22. Plug the transmission oil cooler line connectors in the transmission case.
23. Install a safety chain around the transmission.
24. Remove the studs and/or bolts that secure the transmission to the engine.
25. Pull the transmission straight back.
26. Remove the transmission from the vehicle.
27. Install the J 21366 onto the transmission bell housing to retain the torque converter. (I use a 2x2 wood block twisted in the center of a piece of mechanics wire run across the face from the mounting holes to retain the converter)
28. Flush the transmission oil cooler and lines.

Installation Procedure

1. Install the J 21366 onto the transmission bell housing to retain the torque converter.
2. Raise the transmission into place and remove the J 21366 from the transmission.
3. Slide the transmission straight onto the locating pins while lining up the marks on the flywheel and the torque converter made during removal.
The torque converter must be flush onto the flywheel and rotate freely by hand.
4. Install studs and/or bolts securing the transmission to the engine.
Tighten the studs and/or bolts to 50 N·m (37 lb ft).
5. Install the flywheel to torque converter bolts. Use care not to drop the bolts into the bell housing.
6. Install the starter motor.
7. Install the torque converter access plug.
8. Remove the safety chain from the transmission.
9. Install the transmission vent hose, fuel lines, and the wiring harness to the transmission.
10. Install the 2 bolts securing the heat shield to the transmission.
Tighten the bolt to 17 N·m (13 lb ft).
11. Install the shift cable end to the transmission shift lever ball stud.
12. Install the transfer case.
13. Connect the vent tube hose and the electrical connections to the transfer case.
14. Install the exhaust crossover pipe assembly.
15. Install the transmission mount.
16. Install the 2 bolts securing the transmission mount to the transmission.
Tighten the bolts and nut to 25 N·m (18 lb ft).
17. Install the transmission support to the vehicle.
18. Install the nuts and bolts securing the transmission support to the frame.
Tighten the bolts and nut to 46 N·m (35 lb ft).
19. Install the nuts securing the transmission mount to the transmission support.
Tighten the nuts to 46 N·m (35 lb ft).
20. Remove the transmission jack from the transmission.
21. Install the rear propeller shaft.
22. Flush the transmission oil cooler and cooling lines at this time if necessary.
23. Connect the transmission oil cooler lines to the transmission.
24. Lower the vehicle.
25. Connect the negative battery cable.
26. Fill the transmission to the proper level with DEXRON® III transmission fluid.
27. Road test the vehicle and check for proper operation.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:55 pm

Thanks allot, I copy/pasted for later reference. Some of it don't make sense to me, can't really get a picture in my mind yet how it comes apart. But I hope it will later. No pictures?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:00 pm

quickbiker wrote:... No pictures?

Nothing helpful.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:57 pm

Here's some pics of tcase disassembly/assembly. If figure that's worth at least a thousand words.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:01 pm

Am I the first one to replace a TC? Maybe I got a defect? I know there are some out there with 100k or more miles. What's strange is a guy I work with had a ZR2 with about 100k miles and had noise also and had a dealer rebuild the tcase for like $1200 bucs. He coulda bought a new one for less

. I wonder if the dealer found it to be the TC, but then just said they rebuilt the tcase. Sometimes I am suspicious of dealers.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:11 pm

Take note of the bolts and holes for the torque converter. Loose bolts could cause a rattle. A cracked flexplate/flywheel can make strange noises as well.
Eyes open, as you well know.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:18 pm

Yes, it pays to really listen and follow the ears. I thought I did at first, but I should have checked more closely, I would have saved another tcase tear-down.

I wonder if I can just take that access cover off, and see the bolts from there? It may just be loose bolts. I'd be so lucky, but who knows. I'll check it maybe tomorrow, today is my resting day. Speaking of, I need to go to sleep.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:26 pm

Someone here had the same prob. No one seems to give out info of what they got for a replacement.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:06 pm

So for the server upgrade, I only need to buy that pin and the circle thingydoo? I'm wondering if I'll like it. Cause I discovered I like the softer shift and took off my programming for firm shifts a while back. Does it act smoother than the programming firm shift?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:16 pm

The length of the pin reduces the freeplay and increases pressure on the band. The pistons require less fluid for activation, and have more surface area.
I run both the HPPIII shift firmness programming and the servos.

I think they make it shift right. Not hard at all. Quicker would be the best description I could offer. More positive. Not a mushy slide, but a shift.

Oregon Performance Transmissions wrote:...This servo pin will help you get your band adjusted to the right clearance. It's almost more important to get the right clearance as it is to change to the Corvette servo. If you push in on your servo cover, you'll notice that it moves in around 1/8"-1/4". This is way too much travel; it should be closer to 1/16". This pin reduces the servo travel down so you'll be in the right range. This is a must for any performance, towing, RV/off-road application, but would be a nice upgrade for any 700R4 or 4L60E. Since the servo isn't traveling as far before it applies the band, the 1-2 and 3-4 shift will be quicker and will not allow the servo to go beyond it's travel inside the servo bore.

Oregon Performance Transmissions wrote:...While the Corvette servo replaces the two inner pistons, this replaces the outer piston and cover, so this can be used together with the Corvette servo for ultimate performance. This servo increases the holding power in overdrive by 40%, to almost completely eliminate the chance of burning up the band. While using this servo you'll be able to pull most loads and even race in overdrive without burning up the band.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:18 pm

Wow, both prog and servo.

So, would I need 2 pins, one for 2-3 and one for 3-4? And I need 2 caps for it?

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:21 pm

One pin and two servos.

Corvette servo, longer pin and billet fourth servo.

I would do them all at the same time. You save money and no double install like I did.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:51 pm

OK, still confused (put ? in other pertinent thread).

I got the flexplate wrench in preparation for the TC. I got the smaller one that says works with GM and all plates. Will call this place later, cause their email bounced.

The one made with low stall speed for 4x4's sounds good. Probably won't be tearing into this for a couple weeks or so, so I got time. Life gets in the way.

Post by **HenryJ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:03 pm

It might be worth dropping an email to OPT too. I talked to Brian about the servos prior to my purchase. They seem to know their stuff and were very helpful.
I'd check their converters. The HD unit was $125

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:42 pm

UPDATE: It's been very slow moving if not moving much at all on my truck. I did finally send my torque converter to Pheonix Transmissions. They are very easy to talk with and deal with. They cut my TC apart to see if they can tell me if that's what was causing my noise. They did not see anything wrong with it. He said my stall speed is like 2200! So in line with rock crawling/daily driver, they recomended 1800 stall speed. So I had them rebuild it better than stock and make it 1800 stall speed. So I will get lower temps and it is stronger than stock.

So, I'm still back to square one trying to figure out what is causing the wild and crazy noise. It's a very loud noise, like something between grinding and racheting, it's hard to explain. He recomended checking the tranny pump assembly and maybe something the flex plates mounts to. Cause the flex plate is in good shape, no cracks, and no loose bolts. I'm at a loss as to what to do. So, it's just kinda sitting in the garage, all in pieces. I know I gotta get it going soon, cause when a truck is down is when you find out how many times I really need a truck for hauling, winching trees, etc. Arrgghhh.

I've also been procrastinating it all, cause I'm having so much fun on my new Harley. First new bike in 17 years. The new Harleys are really amazing. They are finally building bikes that I am happy with stock. Or is it that I am just showing my age?

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:58 pm

quickbiker wrote:He said my stall speed is like 2200! So in line with rock crawling/daily driver, they recomended 1800 stall speed. So I had them rebuild it better than stock and make it 1800 stall speed. So I will get lower temps and it is stronger than stock.

I have been trying for years to tell people that the stock TC in all 4.3L equipped S-Series has a stall speed around 2000 to 2200 rpm and most people including several folks on the old ZR2.com site said I was wrong.

The 4.3L needs a high stall because the torque curve on these motors comes in late.

I am curious to see how your new stall of 1800 performs with a stock motor.

My guess is that your truck will be a little slower from a dead start , however your gas mileage should increase some and your truck should be more controllable in slow speed rock crawling.

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with the tranny, but if you can afford it I would just have Phoenix Trans do a good rebuild for you.

They do quality work and have to be one of if not the best rebuilders of the 700R4/4L60E transmissions.

Steve

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:34 pm

Yea, I remember you saying it was about that, 2200. And I did believe you, cause it does feel a bit high. Yea, he said I would lose power off the start, which I could care less, it's a truck, not a drag racer. I am looking forward to the lower temps and better rock crawling.

I was actually thinking I would love to have them check out my trans, but I'm in VA, and that cost an awfull lot to send a trans to the big T. So, at the present time, I'm still pick'n at it. lol.

Any educated guesses to add to my things that I will check is appreciated. So far, I am going to check the trans oil pump. I did see soemthing in the manual about a racheting noise from a bad park pawl spring. But I would think that would be a minor racheting noise compared to the very loud noise I am experiencing.

I feel like i am breaking totally new ground here. I have googled so much about this noise, I am googled all out. I just can't believe no one has had this problem before. Very strange.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:22 am

I have had the torrington needle bearing in the center of the planetary dry up and disintegrate.
What would I do? There have been changes made to the transfercase. Is everything there OK? If that is the case, time to go through that transmission. Beef it up while in there. Add clutch disk , heavyduty sun shell, maybe a hardened output shaft.
If you have eliminated the other sources the transmission is all that is left.
Price the parts and if you feel confident, rebuild it yourself. If not find a good local shop.
Another option would be to buy a performance transmission. There are a couple that I had my eye on quite a while ago, but I don't remember who. GER is in Oxford,PA. I have had good experiences with them in the past. I would probably seek them out. The transmission they built for my HenryJ is bullet proof.

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:23 am

quickbiker wrote:It's a very loud noise, like something between grinding and racheting, it's hard to explain. He recomended checking the tranny pump assembly

After looking through one of my 700R4/4L60E manuals I found that an oil pump with broken vane rings will make a noise similar to what you describe.

I did see soemthing in the manual about a racheting noise from a bad park pawl spring. But I would think that would be a minor racheting noise compared to the very loud noise I am experiencing.

I found the same info as well and a weak pawl spring should only make the ratcheting noise as you shift the trans in and out of PARK.

Steve

killian96ss · Post by **killian96ss** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:26 pm

Common failures for the 4L60E

Steve

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:37 pm

Thanks killian. I did check that list of item on the CC site, but see nothing about what I am experiencing. I got my TC back and it'a been totally rebuilt and has a stall speed of 1800. But still that was not the prob. I still haven't got a chance to check out the pump yet. I few days ago I picked up a good torx set so I can take the bell housing off to get to it. I'm moving so slow on this fix, it's really anoying me now. I need to find a good few hours some day to get into it.

I need to get it fixed so I can take my boat out. I can't believe I haven't got any fishing/boating in this year yet. Ugh.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:46 pm

Having probs getting to the pump. Some of my probs can be found at the end of this thread. Ugh.

Detailcrew · Post by **Detailcrew** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:48 pm

I just had my tranny fully rebuilt. At 118k in the middle of arizona it decieded to quit. Cost me $2,200.00 to rebuild. The mechanic that did the rebuild showed me a couple of faulty areas in these tranny's. They have rebuild kits that can be used that come with stronger parts to really make these tranny's better.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:09 am

Thanks. I was starting to think I was the only one/first one with a crewcab that has had problems. I've heard the earlier 4L60E's had problems with the sun shell thingy doo, but our's should be excluded. Mine has 100k miles on it. I have a hunch that programing the firmer shifts on it made it go bad quicker. I'm just upset that this is the first automatic trans that has ever givien me probs, but it has been my favorite trans for it's positive shifts and other features.

Wow, and that's allot of mola. I found a local shop here that would do it for $1800, and he only charges $200 less if it's off the truck. That's just crazy. The parts only cost about $200 and only a few hours labor to fix when it's off the truck. So now I am having a friend of family that is a mechanic that will rebuild it for a fraction of the price, it pays to wait sometimes. So now it's down in FL getting rebuilt. But I gotta go down there in a couple months to pick it up. Hopefully I'll have it on the road in about 3 months.

quickbiker · Post by **quickbiker** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:32 pm

I've never given the update on my whole mess. I'll try to give a short version, cause the whole affair is a nightmare that I am trying to just forget.

To really sum it up, the only stuff that went bad was by mods/rebuilds and non/chevy stuff that were done by others and had nothing to do with stock Chevy stuff.

1. Had trans rebuilt by total idiot from out of state. (friend of a relative, never do this).

2. Found out that the problem was really the axle gears. But get this... The truck made the same noise, even after the place that originally built it rebuilt it again, and he still charged me for stuff, even though I have pictures that I sent him about the screwed up gear pattern from the start. Who would think it could be still the axle after a rebuild????

3. but I found #2 out after I got my "rebuilt" trans back, and installed it and it didn't work, only 1st gear worked, but only kinda.

4. I took it to a nearby "professional trans rebuild shop". This place specializes in trans. The rebuilt it and then it made the same noise, hence #2, so I had them rebuilt the axle (3rd rebuild now on the axle). Axle was fine after this.

5. Now I get back after a 600 mile weekend trip and going to work the next day, I lose over-drive and find out I have no reverse when I get to work.

6. Take back to "proffesional trans specialists". They found a busted up sunshell and spider gears. The blame me cause I off-road with it. (now this truck has 100k of hard off-road use with the stock trans, never had probs). So they replace it all, free of charge, cause I got their top of the line 1 year warrantee job. This includes new 1800 TC, Vetter Server, Upgraded sunshell. So their warrantee server is superb.

7. Take it back for an oil leak, they change an o-ring seal for the trans shifter thingydoo.

8. Take it back again a week later cause I again, lose OD and reverse, so it has again busted the sunshell and spider gears.

9. The research and found out that the idiot guy before that gave me some cheezy screw up job replaced some kind of oil thingy do for the oil pump that caused it to stop oil flow when it went into OD. So I told them I got their top of the line rebuild job, why wouldn't they replace the oil pump and stuff like that, they said if it looks good, they leave it there (ugh). So they try to throw the guilt on me and also throw some the guy the built it before me. Now, I didn't hide anything from them, I told them some idiot just rebuilt it and it doesn't work. And it goes unsaid that looking at my truck that I off-road with it. They again replace it all free of charge under my warrantee. And I give them an A+ for that.

10. Again it leaks oil. Take it back, they replace the pan seal. But now it still leaks a bit, not enough to really puddle much, but leave a drop or 2 parked all day. Now this is anoying to me, cause I've never had any leaks or seapage of oil on my truck, totally clean and dry, so I don't expect to have any after a rebuild ether, so I will be taking it back again when it warms up.

So, all in all I am very happy with how the tranny feels. It's even better at holding OD than when I cheated it with programming the shift points. And so far the axle is doing great, although I haven't checked how the pattern is wearing, cause I had them do the break in oil change when I had it there for warrany work on the trans.

So, I expect to get my money's worth on this truck, I'm gonna run it till it's falling apart. lol. Plus I really like the setup, just perfect.

So, I guess something to pass on to you people is that even when something is done so called "proffessionally" it can still be a pain in the arse. I just can't believe these so called proffessionals can't properly set up an axle, not once, but twice. I did one perfectly when I did my stock axle, and that was the first time of my life.

So, I have vowed to myself, this is the last time any vehicle of mine ever sees a garage other than mine. This is like the 4th time in my life I get something major worked on, and 3 out of the 4 time have been a disaster.

Anyhow, that's the whole story in a nutshell, I think I detailed it more than I planned on, lol.

Post by **HenryJ** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:50 am

Thanks for the update!