HID conversion

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HID conversion

Post by cdnuser »

I found a dealer selling an HID conversion for the S10 (plug and play). I would love to have and HID system without having to switch over to the GMC face using the factory HID. I prefer the s10 grill.

Has anyone seen this system before? I am affraid of frying my wiring with a cheap kit.

On ebay Item number: 230063223122

What do you guys think??
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Post by HenryJ »

Read this thread
Snoman002 wrote:HID "kits" can be HORRIBLE.

Please please research HID kits before just slaping one in there.

FIrst off the components used are usually sub-par and you end up replacing balasts and bulbs quite often.

Second, there is no such thing as a 9006 HID bulb. ALL HID kits use a rebased HID burner. Rebasd means that they take the plastic base of and put a different one on there, not good engineering in my book.

Third the way the light is given off in a HID bulb is different then the way a halogen bulb gives off light, this very often results in horrible glare that is extremly hard on other drivers. The company that rebases the bulbs trie to get the center of the light point in the HID bulb at the same location as a 9006 bulb but the fact still remains that the light in a HID bulb comes from an arc and the light from a halogen comes from a peice of metal. You cannot assume that the output light is exactly the same, and if it isn't the same then it is producing glare or light in unwanted areas.

The length of the arc in a HID bulb is most likly not the same as the length of the filament and that means that the HID bulb is giving off it's brightest light in areas that a halogen bulb never did, that means the reflector and lens was not designed to work with that light and it is most likely coming out in bad places.

Also, since DOT requires some uplight from a headlight to illuminate overhead signs that means the you have to lower the main portion of the light beam so you cut some of the uplight to a reasonable level so other drivers arn't blinded. That means that the majority of your very expensive light is now hitting the ground closer to your truck instead of traveling down the rod just above the asphalt, this is not where you want it.

And finally, having a large amount of light hitting the ground in front of the truck can actually make your distance vision worse. Even though you may think you have better lights because it is SO BRIGHT in front of the truck you have actually caused you pupils to contract and that limits the distance you can see. And since you already had to lower the beam to keep from blinding other drivers that means even though you think you have better light you very well may not be able to see that dear out there because the majority of the light isn't in that area and your pupils have contracted making it so you cant see the reflected light from a distance as well.

Also, you whould know that the NHSTB has BANNED the sale of every HID kit out there. Legally you cannot sell HID kits even if it is "for off-road use" like so many manufactures like to claim.

Please do some research for you self over at www.hidplanet.com. They can show the horror stories from HID kits and then they can show you how to do it properly, and probably even a way to give you high beam HID's for less than the cost you are looking at now.
The HIR bulbs have been working very well for me.

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Post by cdnuser »

Thanks HenryJ.

What do you mean by HIR bulbs?

I was thinking of buying the silverstar bulbs again. I had them in my car and they performed very well.

I will stay away from HID ebay specials
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Post by WVHogRider »

http://www.hirheadlights.com/ I think this what he means.
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Post by cdnuser »

WVHogRider wrote:http://www.hirheadlights.com/ I think this what he means.
Perfect... I may try these. I need something brighter. Thanks
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Post by Jigg »

You can always put 9005's in the low beam spot.
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Post by HenryJ »

That is what I did. I modified the highs to work in the low reflector and installed HIR bulbs in the high beams.

Works great. The halogen high beam bulbs are the same light output of the HIR low beam bulbs.

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Post by HenryJ »

s10cyncrvr wrote:Well, almost everything. I'll try and cover all the basics of HID lighting, without going into the really technical stuff.

1. I want HID's. What are my choices?
You basically have two choices. The first is what is called a "plug-and-play kit." Your other choice is referred to as a "retrofit."

A plug-and-play kit, which from here on out will be referred to as a "PNP kit", is a kit that contains all the parts needed to replace your halogen light bulbs with HID lighting. They contain a ballast, igniter, a rebased bulb, and all the necessary wiring and connectors to hook up to your factory wiring. You simply unplug your halogen bulbs from their sockets, plug in the new wiring, and the insert the rebased bulb into your headlight housing. You may have to do some minor installation work on mounting the components. The rebased bulb is the key to the kit. It is an HID bulb, that is removed from it's HID specific base, and a more common halogen base is put on it. This allows a HID bulb to fit into whatever housing you need whether it be a H7, 9005, or anything else.

A retrofit, which from here on out will be referred to as a "retro", is when you remove the optics system from an HID equipped vehicle, and transplant it into your headlight. You then can take the ballast, igniter, and HID bulb and hook it up like it was from the factory on that automobile. The optics system is the projector that harnesses the light from the bulb and projects it out onto the roadway.

Here's the optics system, a basic projector. This is what you'll have to put into your headlight...
Image

2. So what are the pros and cons to a PNP kit and a retro?

First we'll start with the PNP kit...
Pros
- Ease of installation: It is very easy for anybody to install a PNP kit. It can generally be done in a afternoon with common hand tools

- Everything needed is right there: Generally, everything you need to hook them to your vehicle comes in the kit. No searching for parts.

Cons
- Glare: Glare is excessive light that is seen by oncoming motorists. Because you are putting three times the amount of light into a housing that wasn't designed for it, you run the risk of increased glare. The amount of this is dependent on the design of the housing. Some vehicles have horrible glare problems with PNP kits. I will say this, the 98-up Series headlamps do not have as much of a glare issue as first thought. Care should always be taken after installation though to re-aim the headlights properly to reduce the amount of glare.

- Lack of performance: The HID bulb has approximatley three times the output of a regular halogen, but if this output isn't harnessed properly, much of it is wasted. Because you're using a housing that was never designed for HID, some of that light is going to waste. This can be thought of like having a 180hp V6 truck. Sticking a 540hp engine in it will make you faster, but without the suspension and tires(HID optics) some of that power ends up as wheelspin.

- Lack of color: With a PNP kit in a standard reflector housing, you generally have to decide between color or performance. The more you want of one, the less you'll have of the other.

Now lets do the retro...
Pros
- Lack of glare: Because you are transplanting all of the optics system into your vehicle, the new lights will produce no more glare as what was there from the factory on the donor automobile.

- Performance: The HID projectors were designed from the getgo by automobile engineers to try and extract as much performance as possible from the HID bulb. Because of this, you are generally able to see wider and farther.

- Color: With a projector, color and performance are seperated. You are able to increase or decrease both individually. Because of this you can have max performance and color. This will be discussed more in depth later.

Cons
- Difficulty of Installation: Because you have to transplant the projector into a suitable headlight housing, it turns into a much more difficult and time consuming project as compared to the PNP kit. You'll need more then basic hand tools, along with at least a few days to get satisfactory results. You'll also need to do some research on how to install everything.

- Usually you don't get a kit: There are places that sell a partial kit of parts, but most likely you'll be buying all the parts from different suppliers. Because of this mix and matching, you'll have to have some knowledge of what parts will work with one another. Once again, you'll have to do some research.

- You can't use a factory reflector housing: If you don't like the look of projectors, then the only choice of a retro you have is to use an Envoy headlamp.

3. Alright, I'm starting to get an idea of what I want to do, but what I really want is the signature HID color. How do I get that color?
The color, probably the first thing you notice about HID's. Everybody loves how they look. Color can be achieved in two very different ways.

The first way is through the type of bulb. Bulbs are given a kelvin rating to described their different colors. A basic run through is this...

3000k= Yellow
4100-4300k= White
6000k= White/Blue
8000k= Blue/Purple
10000k and above= Purple

Using a 8000k bulb will give you a bluish purple output. This blue/purple light is seen by you behind the wheel while you are driving and is also seen by oncoming motorists outside of the vehicle.

But there are downsides to using a high kelvin bulb. After approximately 4000-4500k, the output of the bulb decreases as the kelvin rating goes higher. The 80000k and above can lose 1/3 to 1/2 of their total output. Also because this colored light is visible to you, you have a much harder time seeing. The human eye and brain is at it's most efficient with white light. It has a harder time seeing with colored light.

There is a way to have the best of both worlds though. Through the use of a projector you can use a white 4100-4300k bulb and get color out of it. Inside of the projector is a cut-off shield that prevents glare to oncoming motorists. A side effect of this shield is that the light gets bent as it passes by it. This bending of light produces a prism or rainbow effect. It creates a ribbon of very vibrant blues and purples at the cut-off line. This isn't very visible to you while you are driving, but it is to oncoming motorists. Also because it's in a band, it changes color when the angle changes, like when going over a bump. This creates the beautiful colors you see on some factory cars. You see white, others see color. The amount of color is dependent upon the design of the projector. Most projectors can be modded to produce a very colorful light.

Here is an example of the colorband on a set of projectors...
Image

4. What are the best parts to use?
You get what you pay for is the best way to go about this. The Europeans generally have much higher quality parts then the Asian companies. Ballasts can go bad, as well as bulbs. Some names of good manufactures are Hella, Phillips, Osram, and Matsushita, among others. Some, more expensive, PNP kits use some of these parts. If it lists a Phillips bulb though, it was a Phillips bulb at one point but then it was rebased by an outside company. The quality of that bulb is dependent on the quality of the rebasers operation.

5. Will HID's hurt my electrical system?
HID's only draw 3 amps per bulb as compared to approximately 6 amps per bulb for a halogen. HID's do however pull up to 15 amps for a couple seconds when they are first turned on. Because of this, I personally do not recommend powering them through your factory wiring. Some people report never having a problem, while others report a problem the first time they turn them on. A simple wiring harness can be made that will safeguard your factory electrical system from these 15 amp pulls. It uses a basic automotive relay, and draws the power for the headlights straight from the battery. How it works is, your normal plugs that the halogen bulb plugged into now powers a relay. When you turn on your headlights, this tells the relay to close. When the relay is closed, power can flow from the battery, to the HID system through the relay. Instead of seeing the 15 amp loads, your factory wiring only sees a .5 amp load.

6. What's with the Envoy lights?
The Envoy lights are basically a plug and play retro. You get a lot of the benefits from both worlds. Envoy lights use what is called a D1S bulb. This is a standard HID bulb, but it has the igniter built into the back of it. The igniter is a little silver box about 1" in dimension. It's a bit of an odd unit, but replacement parts are available online or through dealers. The Envoy is a reflector though, so you won't get the color out of it like a projector retro.

You can check out an Envoy insallation here...
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f30/proje ... id-274698/

7. Where can I learn more about HID's?

Take a look at these site's, they'll go much more in depth on everything HID related...
HID Retrofit Parts Projectors Ballasts D2S Bulbs
Automotive Lighting FAQ
intellexual net · m k i v

8. I want to do a PNP kit, where can I learn more about it?
There is not a whole lot to learn. The kit will probably come with instructions on how to hook it up and general operations.

9. I want to do a retro, where can I learn more about it?
Take a look at these threads...

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195172
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217270
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263558
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209281

Also HID Retrofit Parts Projectors Ballasts D2S Bulbs has a huge amount of retro projects that you can learn from.

10. Are all projectors the same?
No, each projector sort of has it's own fingerprint. Some have increased width, some have increased color, some have sharp cut-off lines. Looking at cars on the road is a good way to decide on a set of projectors. Find one that you like and then you can mod them a little to suit your taste. They can be modded by swapping lenses or cut-off shields. Also halogen projectors generally aren't as good performance wise as HID projectors. There are a few exceptions, you can learn about those through research.

11. Can I have highbeam HID's
Yes and No. You can order another kit for your highbeams, but since you are turning them on and off for oncoming traffic, they will wear out quickly. Also, HID takes about 10 seconds to warm up and achieve max output, so they don't lend themselves well to on and off highbeam use.

The only good way to get HID highbeams is to use what is called a Bi-xexon projector. It is a projector that combines lowbeams and highbeams into one with the use of a motorized cut-off shield. When you have your lowbeams on, the cut-off shield is in place like a normal projector. When you trun on your highbeams, the shield moves down out of the way, to allow more light higher and further down the road. Drawbacks to a Bi-xexon projector is that they are large and expensive as compared to a regular projector. Using a higher output halogen bulb is a good way to complement the HID lowbeams.

12. Are HID's legal?
As of right now, to my knowledge, both PNP kits and retro's are illegal. Laws can differ from state to state so it's best to do your own research on this. The only legal way I know of is if your vehicle was available with HID as an option, and you get those parts and install them on your vehicle. Because of this, the Envoy is probably the only legal avenue to take.

I've tried to answer some of the most common questions asked. If there is something that I missed or you want me to go more in depth on something I'll do my best to answer. Also others can feel free to answer questions as well.

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Post by purduecrew »

All excellent information posted here!

I would say you could break it down like this:

For under $10:

Modify 9005's to fit into low beams

For under $60:

Install HIR's, but as Brule points out, a 9005 and HIR low beam are nearly identical in real world output.

For under $150:

PnP HID kit, but as you have expressed concern, there may be questions to reliability, performance, and value.

For $400:

Purchase these: Ebay

And swap in these: ebay

Then use OE production electronics parts that will outlast our trucks. And get great performance!

Or for under $550:
Go here :wink:
http://www.s-10crewcab.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6301 and get the full explanation


So there you have it, pick your budget and go with it!
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